What can I make with deer?

[Rick]

Batch, I think the 95.5% Calcium Carbonate reference was to the picture RWC posted. I was a little confused at the start as well.

[Rick]

YCC, I'm really amazed at the amount of knowledge you have in this process. Not just to know how to do it but why doing X works. I know your thirst for knowledge runs into the why's and not just the hows but your research and tenacity to learn everything related to the process is genuinely impressive.

[your_comforting_company]

Thanks Rick!

Sorry for the confusion, I was referring to RWC's pic. The common names and chemical names can be a little daunting.
Hydrated lime is Calcium Hydroxide. Slaked Lime I believe is Calcium Carbonate, although this link would have one believe they are the same thing> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_hydroxide
CaCO3 comes from burned shells> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_carbonate

Either way, we are working with the loose hydrogen bonds in the skin (read mucus). The extra oxygen atom (CaCO3) will bind with the hydrogen in the skin when using calcium carbonate (leaving you with Calcium oxide and carbon dioxide, and *snot*). When using Calcium Hydroxide, you end up with calcium oxide and water because you have an OH- (meaning it needs one more H to be stable so it robs one from the skin).

Both do the same thing and are interchangeable in my opinion. Sorry for the confusion!!

[rwc1969]

It's definitely interesting how the different chemicals work. Thanks for the clarification YCC.

Since I added 3 lbs. to 2 gallons of water I'd say the mix is strong as it can be, LOL. I thought the bag I bought was 3 lbs., turns out it's 6. I was so busy reading the ingredients and trying to get an egg to float I didn't even bother to read the weight on the package until yesterday.

Anyway, like I said before the water was getting low so I added another gallon and it's still thick as pea soup, lots of extra CaCO3. But, now I can swish it around better and the skin isn't so cramped.

I'm bringing it in at night. The temps are dropping now, it's below freezing as I type and getting colder. We got our first flurries of snow today. The mix smells a bit like raw meat, but not stinky.

[your_comforting_company]

the smell you describe is pretty accurate.. kinda like raw deer, but not rotten. I'd say you're still good. Check it tomorrow and you can probably wipe a lot of the hair off. When you get enough off it will sink instead of floating. Deer hair is hollow and will float.
I usually mix about 1/2 a pound to 4 gallons, so yeah, it's plenty strong LOL!
Have you noticed a yellowish "scum" on top of the water? That's the *snot* coming out!
It should be getting pretty close by now, even for a big one.. of course, it rarely gets below freezing here so it could take as much as (so i've read) 7-10 days (but I think that's a little far..)

when you start dehairing.. wear rubber gloves, rubber boots, and an apron.. that stuff will ruin your clothes!

[crashdive123]

You could always borrow Rick's thong.

[Rick]

I don't think so.

[crashdive123]

Sent it out to the cleaners huh?

[Rick]

I'll share a lot but not my thong. That would fall into the Euwwww! catagory.

[rwc1969]

I haven't noticed the yellow scum, but when you say rub off you mean it will rub right off without force?

As it is i can pull hair out, but it takes a little effort and some hairs just break off.

[your_comforting_company]

it will take a little bit of force, but not a lot.. like wiping your hand across it will make a big mess. it might still take a dull tool to get some of the hairs out; some of them can be stubborn.

I really wish I could give specifics on this stuff but a lot of it is guesswork, especially if you don't have fancy bark-o-meters, and pH testers, and a gizmogeewhizbang. It's really organic (not sure if that's the right word) and mostly 'measured' by feel.

I would think that today would be the day (day 5, right?), and would take it out and give it a test scrape/wipe. If you have to use a lot of effort to get the hair off, put it back in the buck and try again tomorrow. You'd really have to just 'set it and forget it' to ruin it in the buck.
As long as the buck strength is maintained and temps kept relatively low, it should not rot. I'm sure your buck is strong enough (overkill!), so it's mostly just a waiting game.

the scum kinda resembles chicken broth.. thin and a little greasy-looking. It might not be noticable, but I usually see it when my hides are pretty close to being bucked. Just one of the things I observed that I don't recall anyone else mentioning.

[rwc1969]

Tomorrow will be day 7. I left her indoors all day today so she could warm up good, it's below freezing outside. I pulled some hair near the neck and was able to easily clear a 2" patch to bare skin/ epidermis?. So, I think tomorrow she'll be going back on the pvc to get the hair off. WooHoo!

Just to make sure. I carefully remove the hair and epidermis leaving the grain on, then flip it, put a towel under it for cushioning the grain, and carefully remove the membrane from the flesh side and then into the creek, right?

Is it easy to distinguish the epidermis from the grain on the hair side? I don't want to bust the grain.

[your_comforting_company]

It will take a pretty concerted effort, or a really sharp tool to bust the grain. a light pressure will be sufficient, tho, at this stage, to remove the hair. The epidermis is basically just dead skin and often just looks like dirt under the hair. The grain will be slick and shiny. Right now, it might be a little yellow or greenish from the bucking, but rinsing will produce a very nice white. Hair and epidermis will come off pretty much at the same time.
Towel on your beam, flip it, and get the membrane off. You are more likely to bust the grain at this point than the previous. The membrane can be frustrating to get off sometimes as it's harder to tell where it ends and the fiber network begins. You don't have to get it all off.. this stuff is soft anyway. the disadvantage of leaving it on, the inside of your leather will look tatty. Get the bulk off, and let the rest ride.
Be careful tho about your pressure.. usually when I tear the grain it's when membraning, not dehairing! I think you'll get the feel for it pretty quick and it shouldn't be a problem.
rinse in the creek, squeegie excess water out, and freeze it till you get your bark / tea / stuff ready.

It really is that easy!

[randyt]

interesting info guys, I'm curious could a fella use commercial lye to buck hides? Most hardware's have drain cleaner that is 100 percent lye.

[rwc1969]

Ok, I'm using a smoothed out Box elder branch as a dowel to remove the hair. It started off good and I could swipe off big long sections down to the hide, nice and clean and free of hair with little effort. Then I noticed in spots, especially near the edge and seemingly more so on the white hair that it would break off near the skin and leave stubbys in the skin not removing all the hair. It seemed it was taking more and more pressure to remove it in these spots and it wouldn't come clean off, little stubbies left.

So, I put it back in the lime after getting about halfway thru de-hairing. Is it normal for these little stubs to remain? They don't rub out without greater effort than I think is required. Most won't rub out period.

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[rwc1969]

Also, is it better to remove the hair with the direction it lays or against the direction it lays?

I had the above problem either way.

[your_comforting_company]

I try to go with the grain of the hair, or across it, but never against it (except at the very top of the neck).
Do you have a paint scraper thingy? you can hold it at a right angle and gengly remove the stubbies usually.
Looks like you got it right to the grain. Knew right where to stop! Good job

I think you did the right thing by giving it another day in the buck. Tomorrow should be prime and I'd expect the stubbies to come on out. usually the white slips first, then the brown hair, but I find each skin to be a little different. The back side of a knife (dull edge) and a little bit more pressure should get them out, or any dull flat tool.

RandyT. Commercial lye (KOH) can be used, but I don't recommend it because of the dangers involved in handling it. Also the pH needs to be correct.. somewhere around 12.9 - 13.0. If it's too strong, the commercial lye can eat away at the skin. I have not used commercial lye, mostly because of my oafish ways lol. I don't want that stuff gettin on my pretty face (har har har). If you do use KOH, always add the crystals to the water, never water to crystals. 4 oz. per 10 gallons of water, or 2 oz. per 5 gallons, the latter is for one or two hides.

[rwc1969]

Thanks YCC, I was going to use a dull blade but was afraid I'd bust the grain, will get back to it tomorrow.

[randyt]

I try to go with the grain of the hair, or across it, but never against it (except at the very top of the neck).
Do you have a paint scraper thingy? you can hold it at a right angle and gengly remove the stubbies usually.
Looks like you got it right to the grain. Knew right where to stop! Good job

I think you did the right thing by giving it another day in the buck. Tomorrow should be prime and I'd expect the stubbies to come on out. usually the white slips first, then the brown hair, but I find each skin to be a little different. The back side of a knife (dull edge) and a little bit more pressure should get them out, or any dull flat tool.

RandyT. Commercial lye (KOH) can be used, but I don't recommend it because of the dangers involved in handling it. Also the pH needs to be correct.. somewhere around 12.9 - 13.0. If it's too strong, the commercial lye can eat away at the skin. I have not used commercial lye, mostly because of my oafish ways lol. I don't want that stuff gettin on my pretty face (har har har). If you do use KOH, always add the crystals to the water, never water to crystals. 4 oz. per 10 gallons of water, or 2 oz. per 5 gallons, the latter is for one or two hides.

I've not used it either. I try to scrounge up what ever I can from nature if and when possible. But I figured it may be a option for folks that don't have the scrounging opportunities that some of us have.

[your_comforting_company]

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This is a pic of me removing the grain. You'll notice I'm putting a lot of effort down and forward. Hopefully you can see that difference in the layers. Be careful on the thinner areas, around the rump and belly as they usually grain pretty easy. The hair should fall right out today, and if not, I'd probably opt to struggle through it, rather than buck any longer. 8 days seems to me an aweful long time to buck but I work in much warmer (relatively of course) weather. Rarely gets below freezing here.

How are your bones and other projects going? I didn't mean for this to become a focus on the skin alone (apologies!!). great job with the tallow btw!

If anyone does use commercial lye, (NOT Drano) make sure it's 100%, and ALWAYS wear gloves, apron, and eye protection. I do use this stuff to make lye soap and it's pretty scary because I'm so clumsy!