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Thread: What can I make with deer?

  1. #181
    naturalist primitive your_comforting_company's Avatar
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    OH WOW!

    That is BEAUTIFUL!!

    I'm glad you waited brother, that is amazing!!

    I might just throw this coyote in some bark tan and see how it turns out in live oak!


  2. #182

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    I need clarification: you put the skin into several emulsions letting each sit for 24 hours? or just one emulsion for 24 hours? After the first emulsion the oily, soapy water has turned dark orange, still lots of unbound tannins?

    here's some vids that show my notes on the bark tan portion, and the rinsing, sleeking and emulsification.

    Bark tan timeline
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMm6i1dpXR4

    Rinsing
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhSGoWF8gB0

    Sleeking, slicking, squeegying, or simply "getting out the excess water"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2RVbr7r16k

    Emulsion
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzZ1A8ibJ5o

  3. #183
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    Really excellent notes on that timeline! I wish I had those kind of organizational skills!

    While rinsing, you say "I don't think you'll ever get it all clear" and I do believe you are correct, which is why your emulsion turned a little brown. I would say after 8 rinsings, you got the bulk out, and I do several myself, sometimes squeegee-ing (flesh side) in between to help get excess out. Looks to me like you did a fine job.

    A spatula for a squeegie is a great idea too. My wife is getting tired of me confiscating all her stuff tho. blenders, pots and pans.. If I'm out working on a skin and I come in, she always gives me that look... "What do you want this time?"
    Your "sponge" comment is right on. Too much excess water in the hide will keep anything else from getting in efficiently, so by removing excess water, it will readily soak up your emulsion. The emulsion in water, as I explained before, is because oil and water don't normally mix. The hide is full of water, so oil can't get in.. we squeeze out the excess water, and replace the "excess" with emulsified oil. As the water evaporates, the oils are left behind IN the skin. When you OIL the hide, the oils are attracted to one another, (the ones inside accept the ones coming in from outside), so that you can freely add more oil as desired.
    That's a great looking hide!

    I tyipcally only prepare one emulsion, but use it several times. I let it sit in the emulsion for about 24 hours each time. Like I say, none of this stuff is an exact science as far as "doing" it.. as long as you accomplish the end goal, you can do it once, or ten times. At this point it's tanned and won't spoil, so you can soak it longer if you like, or you can do several dunkings and dryings in a day, provided you have time and a place to let it dry a little bit in between. Your emulsion looks good and milky. Very good!
    If the oil and water separate, add a little more soap and stir again (soap loses it's soapiness after a while). If you don't like how it feels, dunk it in your curry again, and repeat till you get the feel you like.. since this is your first, it might be hard to decide, but you've done so well with it all up to this point, I don't know that you really need my advice here!! It'll feel limber but not so "rubbery" and I don't like mine to feel heavy and oily.. you'll know what you like. For shoe soles, or whatever, you'll want it heavier, and for bags or whatever, lighter hide, with thicker oil on the grain side (but that's later).

    Looks to me like you have done everything just right. That's a beautiful skin and I can't wait to see what you make from it!
    Great job man. Give yourself a pat on the back!

  4. #184

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    Well I guess I better get to it then. Thanks for the compliments ycc, and for all the help up to this point.

  5. #185

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    BTW, I usually only take notes like that the first time around on things, after that my org. skills drop off exponentionally. LOL! It does help as a reference for the future though. Down the road, if I find things different, I'll note that as well, but leave out all the other details. The note taking started with mushrooms, and school, and has expanded to other things from there.

  6. #186
    naturalist primitive your_comforting_company's Avatar
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    Have you decided what finish you'll go for?
    staked will loosen it a little as it dries, or you can mold it or texture it or roll it, or...

  7. #187

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    I'm planning a sheath for my axe, and a possibles bag or/ M/L accesory bag, I'm not sure. I want tough and shiny smooth for the sheath, but a bit loose and a nice grain pattern would look good on the bag.

    Being new to it, I think I'll just finish it out working it dry and where it ends up it ends up. Probably somewhere between soft and stiff with a rough pattern in the grain.

    BTW, I finished the hockskins:

    They were full of oil from the hair, I squeegeed/ slicked the peas out of em and then worked em dry overnight. I didn't have to add any oil as the excess in the hair was enough. I just kept working the hair over onto the flesh side to remove excess oil from the hair and at the same time add oil to the skin.

    Working the area around the dewclaws was the most trying, and after 12 hours they still feel cool to the touch which makes me think there's some moisture in there yet. The humidity in the house is upwards of 70% and I think that and the hair keeping em from drying completely. But, every time I pick them back up to work my hands get real soft and supple, so I don't think they'll set up hard now. Even the thin frayed bits on the edges that I couldn't work very well are completely dry and fairly soft. Only the thicker skin in between and below the dewclaws is slightly stiff. That area retained the most water and was hardest to work. This is a good pre run test for the skin though, I think it will dry quicker having no hair on it.

    Some notes on color change of hair:

    I'll have to compare some before and after pics of the hockskins to see how much the tannins chaged the hair, but it appears to have taken it from a grey fall deer to a summer red. The hair did take some color, but it looks natural on the deer. White areas are now off white/ tan. Brown areas are now a bit redder. I wish I'd a done all 8 hockskins now, I like the results. I would expect some color change though, especially in the lighter areas, a white rabbit would probably come out off white, yellow, tan, maybe even orange or red depending on the strength and color of liquor. A cottontail would probably come out close to the way it went in with some added red, orange, and yellow highlights. Deer hair probably is more moisture resistant than coyote, rabbit, fox, etc. as it's hollow and is not technically fur. So, I'd expect more color change on fur bearers, just a guess.

    I'm having a hard time right now finding a good stretch for oiling and finishing. We had two snow days last week, and this week is makeup for it, and prep for tests that are coming up. I may have to slick the skin and slowly work it dry over the course of a few days if possible, working it a bit each day.

  8. #188
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    any time you want to take a break from stretching it, just bag it and set it somewhere cool. No problem at this point.

    *I'd recommend using the neck for the sheath. cut it off now and mold it so it'll retain some shape, and oil the heck out of it so it doesn't rust your axe. Don't want that one too soft!

    the coloring on the hocks makes me second think doing the yote that way. I dunno, might do it anyway lol.
    Good luck on the tests. Let them skins alone and get back on the books, or work em while you study, but school is more important!!

    Thanks for recording this process in real-time. I think this has been a great thread! Good job!

    Now you gotta come up with something to do with all them bones!
    Last edited by your_comforting_company; 02-09-2011 at 02:16 PM. Reason: afterthought

  9. #189

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    Here's a pic to compare color change rawhide vs. bark tan. Rawhide on left. There's a few more pics on my photobucket site as well.

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    But, like I said before, I'm betting fur would take up more tannins than hair though, not sure.

  10. #190
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    I really can't tell any difference.. Ok.. yote is going in bark tan. We'll find out if it does or not

  11. #191

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    Those pics are fairly accurate too colorwise. BTW, I saw the pic of your Granny/ Grandma holding up your cow hide, my mom couldn't keep her hands off the hockskins once finished, and that is a surprise to me as she is not into dead things whatsoever, but, it does show just how they change through the process. She's been rattling off all kinds of ideas for using them too. Pretty cool!

    I busted out all my programs and such for school, well most of 'em, and am ready to go. Burning the midnight canola oil, lol. Working the skin dry as we speak. Actually, I'm letting it hang over the shower curtain for a half hour or so to let some of the excess moisture evaporate, humidity is still hovering just under 70%, . It's looking good, not as oily as the hockskins, but there's oil in there and sleeking it with the metal spatula worked real good.

    I decided to work the whole thing dry, want to see the finished skin as a whole. I'm gonna use my small cutting board as a "mild" staker, it's rounded off well; just gonna sit back, wedge it between the cushions in the couch, lay out some shop rags to protect the furniture, watch the tube and work 'er dry... city style. :0

    I'm re-thinking the axe sheath due to rust issues. I was teetering on it before because of that, and since you had to go and mention it, it might be a bad omen. I never liked leather for sheaths for that very reason, love leather, hate rust.

    A couple words of warning: if anyone plans on doing this like me in the house and bathtub... unlikely, just make sure you don't let the emulsified oil go down the drain, and make sure you don't drip tannins anywhere. It does a pretty good job of staining stuff, and I'm sure that oil would plug up your drain. Make sure you have plenty of old shop towels or the like to slop up the oil and tannins.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwc1969 View Post
    I'm re-thinking the axe sheath due to rust issues. I was teetering on it before because of that, and since you had to go and mention it, it might be a bad omen. I never liked leather for sheaths for that very reason, love leather, hate rust.

    A couple words of warning: if anyone plans on doing this like me in the house and bathtub... unlikely, just make sure you don't let the emulsified oil go down the drain, and make sure you don't drip tannins anywhere. It does a pretty good job of staining stuff, and I'm sure that oil would plug up your drain. Make sure you have plenty of old shop towels or the like to slop up the oil and tannins.
    A heavy oiling after you cut your pattern will help keep rust away, but you have to oil the leather often. Don't let me talk you out of anything you want to do! Do it and experiment and learn. Experience is the best teacher, and you can't get that by reading anything I or anyone else puts up on the 'net. I might be learning things from you pretty soon

    And some very good points. I try to do it out in the shop for that very reason. Mrs ycc doesn't like me staining her towels. (and I'm the one who has to fix clogged pipes!!) Gotta love the "chop shop"!
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  13. #193

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    Here's the hockdkin finishing vid, it's a long one, but to see the finished product just skip to the end.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUBdxMrylNI

    The skin is taking some time to work dry. The thin areas, legs and belly, are drying out quick, but the bulk of it is much thicker and very slow to dry. I think I've spent about 4 hours on and off. The legs and some parts of the belly are very thin, probably thinner than a standard piece of printer paper, but the bulk is upwards of an 1/8" thick or so. But, it definitely has the look and feel of leather now and most of those initial stains from the blood and creek are gone.

  14. #194

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    Done!

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  15. #195
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    Oh, man! You should be rightfully proud of those. I know it was a lot of work but I think you did an outstanding job. I had to give you some rep for that. You worked too hard not to get rep.
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  16. #196
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    Awesome job! Those look Fantastic!! Beautifully marbled and rich in color. Really outstanding my friend!

    The oiled one, is that just canola oil? That's a really nice red. Love it!!

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    Outstanding! I know that you put a lot of work intothat, and you shoudl be darn proud of the way it turned out. Way to stick to it, and kudos you you YCC for the tutorial and help along the way. I can't give either of you rep right now, but know that it is well deserved.
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  18. #198

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    Quote Originally Posted by your_comforting_company View Post
    ...The oiled one, is that just canola oil? That's a really nice red. Love it!!
    yep, canola oil. I wasn't quite sure when to stop oiling. I didn't want it loaded down, but didn't want it to dry and crack either. Now that the oil has had a chance to distribute, the red flesh side is much redder and more even in color. The grain side is a nice dark brown, it was red too until I added more oil at the very end which darkened it up. The more I worked and stretched it the lighter and redder it got, but as I added oil it would darken back up.

    With the finishing the only hard part for me was the thin edges drying quicker than the the thicker neck and back. I ended up stretching them out a bit in my efforts to keep them from hardening up. that's why it has a ruffled look, the edges are stretched more than the center.

    I would like to know the best way to store it until I can get around to making something.

    Once again, thanks for all the help.

    I will say this:

    De-hairing was hard work and took a good 7 hours or more total. I'm lending that to the below 50 temps during bucking and possibly a bad choice in bucking agent.

    Working it dry was almost just as much work and time, but was easier because I was able to break it up over a three day period. next time I think I'll stretch it on a rack to work dry, working it in hand was a bit difficult for my worn out hands and joints.

    Those two chores combined were 12-16 hours. Everything else was a cakewalk, well removing, shredding, and boiling the bark was a bit of a chore, but not too bad, just time consuming. I'm pretty sure the times would be cut in half or at least by 1/3 next time around.

    Having said that, I'll definitely be doing it again, mother nature, health and time permitting. It's well worth the effort, and it feels so good in the hand.

    I'm pretty sure you, ycc, already said it in other words, but there truly is something magical and intriguing about seeing and feeling the skin transform before your senses; smell, touch and sight all play a role. You really do get a feel for it throughout the entire process.

  19. #199
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    I've just read back over this whole thread while finishing up hand-softening a buckskin. This is really great. Can we make it a sticky?

    RWC. It's tanned. Store it anywhere, and anyhow you like to. If you bury it in the dirt, it will eventually return to the earth, but at this point it is forever preserved and usable (till you wear it out). Since it's oiled it won't get "wet". You'll have to reoil as time goes on, but that's because the deer isn't producing it's own oil anymore. When our skin dries out we add lotions, and it's really the same principle, but as far as storing, as long as you don't bury it, it's good to go. Might not want to put it in a place that will wick your oil back out. Hang it on the wall like a picture and admire it till you get ready to cut it.. That's the hardest part.. the first cut!

  20. #200

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    That's funny, all that work and I'm actually afraid to cut into it. BTW, I didn't even sew up the holes, they're all on the fringe. I was thinking of cutting the ruffled fringe off and making some little pouches. I'd like to do something with the fringe first as it looks the worst and is thin. So, that should give me a good opportunity to get the feel of stitching it up and stuff.

    I need some ideas of things to make as I'm kind of drawing a blank now that it's finished.

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