45-70 for bears, etc.

[y2k]

Is a bad choice, especially for defense. A 12 ga auto would be far better, because only spine or brain hits stop charges, with any reliability, that is. The 2x as fast repeat try of the auto makes you a lot better off. Plus, the shotgun has other uses, is legal for deer in states where the rifle is not.

A far better choice is a used, $400 Remington autorifle in 308, because of the 30c a shot milsurp practice ammo, the 10 rd mags you can find if you look, the 2x greater range (hunting), 3x greater range (fighting) of the 308, and the 2x faster repeat shots (to stop a fleeing cripple, handle a dog pack, stop a charging bear, or for handling men). 45-70 ammo is 3-4x as expensive, so guess which is more likely to be practiced-with, hmm? The 308's far more versatile for hunting, due to the range factor, and you can win combat matches or fights with it, far better than is possible with any caliber of lever action. The autorifle evencosts less, and is less prone to damage and having little pcs fall off and get lost. The latter is why no military ever used the lever action, in case you've wondered.

[Sourdough]

Is a bad choice, especially for defense. A 12 ga auto would be far better, because only spine or brain hits stop charges, with any reliability, that is. The 2x as fast repeat try of the auto makes you a lot better off. Plus, the shotgun has other uses, is legal for deer in states where the rifle is not.

A far better choice is a used, $400 Remington autorifle in 308, because of the 30c a shot milsurp practice ammo, the 10 rd mags you can find if you look, the 2x greater range (hunting), 3x greater range (fighting) of the 308, and the 2x faster repeat shots (to stop a fleeing cripple, handle a dog pack, stop a charging bear, or for handling men). 45-70 ammo is 3-4x as expensive, so guess which is more likely to be practiced-with, hmm? The 308's far more versatile for hunting, due to the range factor, and you can win combat matches or fights with it, far better than is possible with any caliber of lever action. The autorifle evencosts less, and is less prone to damage and having little pcs fall off and get lost. The latter is why no military ever used the lever action, in case you've wondered.

So how many charging bears have you stopped, with your "Boots in the Field" Extensive worldly survival experience.....How MANY....?????

[aflineman]

Guess I will just have to get rid of my 30-30 and my 30-06. They just don't cut it anymore. Just traded for a 45/70 to, guess I will just have to throw it away. I will have to hunt quite a bit for a .308 around here though. Outside of the tacticool crowd (and the shops that cater to them) .308 anything is very hard to find. If I want one for the store in town, I would have to order one. Heck, If I wanted an auto anything, I would have to special order one. Guess the folks around here need an education on what they should really be using. What book are you getting this from? Maybe I should pass it around at the next grange or VFW meeting so I can show them what they are doing wrong.

Oh, as for 45/70 being more expensive. I can cast and load it much cheaper than I can buy surplus .308. 15¢ a round for .45/70 vs. 50¢ a round for the cheapest .308 surplus that I can find around here.
And I do shoot my 45/70 much more than I do any of my .308s. It is much more fun.

Also, the Remington .308 auto that I do own would NOT be my first choice at stopping anything. I just can't get the darn thing to run right with surplus rounds. They are much to underpowered to operate the gas system. Using commercial .308 rounds works much better though, they are loaded quite a bit hotter than most surplus.

[y2k]

none, same as everyone else. :-) More people die of insect stings than even get ATTACKED by bears. You'd be lying if you claimed any such experience, and you're for sure wrong if you try to claim that my reasoning is incorrect. No, you can keep on wasting money on inferior performance on those guns. Nobody has to do the intelligent thing, obviously.

[kyratshooter]

How many bears do you have now SD, 100+ or some such. How much advice do you need on which gun to tote? Espically which one will not work at all?

Did we not have a thread about this last week, with a more peasant tone, asking for advice from people that had actually killed a bear?



Y2K Every thread you start has an agressive edge of challenge and "let me straighten you out" inference.

You are in over your head here.

On this board you are dealing with folk that live in the Alaskan bush, the western mountains, the southwestern desert, the southern swamps, the Appalatian Mountains and the velts of South Africa. We dodge turkey, deer, bear and elephants daily and carry pistols on our way to the outhouse. Some folk here have killed every bite they have eaten for 25 years, and grown every vegetable they cooked.

We often compare experiences, have different attitudes and list our preferences. We even joke about it often. But I am not going to tell someone that has killed a hunderd bear and lost count of the deer, elk, moose he has put down what he should and should not use.

If you want to go hunting in Alaska Sourdough can put you on your first bear. He does that as a part time job. He will even tell you what rifle to bring, if you ask.

Now my best advice is to get off the computer before the teacher finds out you are not paying attention in class.

[Rick]

Y2K - You need to understand that you are talking to men that have spent a lifetime guiding in Alaska. Men that have bears in their back yard nearly every single day. To proclaim that they would be lying if they said they had such experience speaks volumes about your lack of experience in such areas. A word to the wise, if Sourdough speaks, you should listen.

[Rick]

Mea Culpa, KY. We posted at the same time.

[y2k]

So what? The bears know better than to charge people. The ones who try never live to pass on their genes. It's been pretty well bred out of them over the last 100 years. All this "bear charge" stuff is just a bunch of chest-beating.

[y2k]

So somebody shot a bear a time or two, so what? It wasn't charging them. Assasination is not the same thing as combat. A 22 will eventually bleed one out, just put it into his lung, and he'll drown in his own blood, like the natives kill elephants with their AK's. They just wait a day, and go look for the circling buzzards. Can do the same with bears, just look, listen for crows, magpies, jays.

[kyratshooter]

Mea Culpa, KY. We posted at the same time.

Pardon porfavor

Y2, you actualy have no clue do you?

Have you been over to SurvivalistBoards yet? You would fit right in over there.

[Rick]

Give it a rest, Y2K. Survival isn't about forcing your opinions down someone else's throat, or at least trying to. Now's the time to stop.

[DOGMAN]

So somebody shot a bear a time or two, so what? It wasn't charging them. Assasination is not the same thing as combat. A 22 will eventually bleed one out, just put it into his lung, and he'll drown in his own blood, like the natives kill elephants with their AK's. They just wait a day, and go look for the circling buzzards. Can do the same with bears, just look, listen for crows, magpies, jays.

So, in another thread you said, "Deer are big animals, shots beyond 300m are inhumane".....what happened to your conscious? Your now talking about snaring moose and letting a bear bleed out for a day! Making an animal die a slow prolonged death is about as inhumane as you can get...

For me, bear spray is the best bear deterrent...this way the bear still gets to live another day, and it learned a valuable lesson....

[SARKY]

You know y2k, in another place at another time in our history with the crap that has been comming out of your mouth, you would have been taken behind the woodshed and given a good whupping. I sugest you watch your mouth.

[finallyME]

The autorifle evencosts less, and is less prone to damage and having little pcs fall off and get lost.

Wow, and here I thought the exact opposite.

[crashdive123]

I know that Rick has given this asshat a temporary vacation (you are much kinder than I am Rick), but I wonder if the administrators at school know that he's using the school computer to act like such an idiot.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

Tell that to my rug

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[finallyME]

AS, unless you shot that with a .308 auto, then it is a fake. You can only kill bears with a .308 auto.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

I don't shoot bears. I just follow garbage trucks around and skin out the ones that drop from fright.

[crashdive123]

Now that right there is funny. I don't care who you are.

[Rick]

That was pretty funny. The only other thing I can think of is they shoot themselves in the head with a .22 when they see AS coming.