Bolt actions make poor survival rifles.

[y2k]

Practically anywhere in the lower 48 states, you can see lights at night, if you'll just climb the tallest tree, hill, etc. you can then just mark the line of travel, and walk there the next day or two. So, unless it's shtf, there's no point in a "survival' rifle". Even if you're sick or hurt, a rifle is no help. you'd be way ahead to have a 1 lb .22 HG, and 5-6 lbs of survival type gear, instead of a 6-7 lb centerfire rifle and ammo.

All you really need is a satellilte phone, or just make a smoky fire and keep it going, someone will come to investigate it and save you. So you just need to keep the weather from killing you for a few days, and maybe have some water. If just lying around, you don't need food for weeks on end. I've known several men who fasted for over 30 days.

So survival, without a need to FIGHT, is long since just a fantasy. Fighting and bolt actions went out with the advent of the Garand, in 1940 or so. A bolt action can't even handle a pack of dogs, or get another hit on a fleeing cripple. It's a bad choice, and there's no reason to settle for such, when survival is the issue.

[DOGMAN]

Practically anywhere in the lower 48 states, you can see lights at night, if you'll just climb the tallest tree, hill, etc. you can then just mark the line of travel, and walk there the next day or two. So, unless it's shtf, there's no point in a "survival' rifle". Even if you're sick or hurt, a rifle is no help. you'd be way ahead to have a 1 lb .22 HG, and 5-6 lbs of survival type gear, instead of a 6-7 lb centerfire rifle and ammo.

All you really need is a satellilte phone, or just make a smoky fire and keep it going, someone will come to investigate it and save you. So you just need to keep the weather from killing you for a few days, and maybe have some water. If just lying around, you don't need food for weeks on end. I've known several men who fasted for over 30 days.

So survival, without a need to FIGHT, is long since just a fantasy. Fighting and bolt actions went out with the advent of the Garand, in 1940 or so. A bolt action can't even handle a pack of dogs, or get another hit on a fleeing cripple. It's a bad choice, and there's no reason to settle for such, when survival is the issue.

I disagree with just about everything you've said here...other than its tough to get off a second shot with a bolt action. And, if you want to talk about traveling light...why not skip the pistol and just have bear spray....thats even lighter and will serve you better dealing with any aggressive predators

[Sourdough]

I disagree with just about everything you've said here...other than its tough to get off a second shot with a bolt action. And, if you want to talk about traveling light...why not skip the pistol and just have bear spray....thats even lighter and will serve you better dealing with any aggressive predators

I disagree with everything he or she (Y2K) has posted so far on this forum.

[Sourdough]

Practically anywhere in the lower 48 states, you can see lights at night, if you'll just climb the tallest tree, hill, etc. you can then just mark the line of travel, and walk there the next day or two. So, unless it's shtf, there's no point in a "survival' rifle". Even if you're sick or hurt, a rifle is no help. you'd be way ahead to have a 1 lb .22 HG, and 5-6 lbs of survival type gear, instead of a 6-7 lb centerfire rifle and ammo.

All you really need is a satellilte phone, or just make a smoky fire and keep it going, someone will come to investigate it and save you. So you just need to keep the weather from killing you for a few days, and maybe have some water. If just lying around, you don't need food for weeks on end. I've known several men who fasted for over 30 days.

So survival, without a need to FIGHT, is long since just a fantasy. Fighting and bolt actions went out with the advent of the Garand, in 1940 or so. A bolt action can't even handle a pack of dogs, or get another hit on a fleeing cripple. It's a bad choice, and there's no reason to settle for such, when survival is the issue.

That is FUNNY........150 years ago they were doing it with muzzle loaders and surviving. And men have been surviving just fine with bolt action rifles sense before you were born. I spent 34 years as a Alaskan Professional Hunter, and the only firearm we carried was controled round feed bolt action rifles.

[y2k]

As I said, you don't need a rifle AT ALL for survival, unless combat is an issue. You want to fight with that muzzleloader? It won't be against ignorant barbarians with just bows, you know. 100 times as many people today, too

[DOGMAN]

y2k- for many of us here, Survival has nothing to do with "fighting" I never even think about using a rifle for shooting a human- thats not the type of "survival" I practice.

For me, and my family survival is "Meat in the freezer" we rely heavily on deer, elk and antelope meat as a major source of our yearly food supply. And, for the type of "survival" I practice a bolt action rifle is probably your best bet for year in and year out dependability. I have a .270 semi-auto I'd trade in a second for a nice dependable bolt action....as far as "meat guns" go a .30-06 bolt action is the perfect survival rifle

[y2k]

There are people who "disagree" with the idea that the individual's freedom should be paramount, that 2+2=4, etc. Care to demo WHY what I said is wrong? You can't, or you would have done so. It's a fact that you don't need the rifle, unless combat is an issue, and it's a fact that bolt actions suck for combat. you can not like it all you want, but you can't change the facts. It's far smarter to like what has to be, since it will be, anyway, and all your "not liking" will accomplish is to make you unhappy.

[y2k]

Bolt actions can't do a thing that autos can't do better, or at least as well, and autos can do things that bolt actions can't touch. You don't need to live where you have to hunt, you see. you can hunt those critters with a used, $400 Remington autorifle, in 308, for cheap milsurp practice ammo,and fine performance with softpoints. Deer are big animals, shots beyond 300m are inhumane, the auto is plenty accurate enough for that. This 1/2 MOA bs has gone way too far. you don't eat crows or prairie dogs, and you can take all of them you want with a handgun, or with traps. ditto the deer, elk and moose, for that matter. Traps and snares work for you 24-7, and you can have scores of them working at the same time. You can only be in one place at once.

You snare deer with a horizontal loop, 6.5-7 ft off of the ground, and hang an apple, carrot, etc, about 1 ft above the loop. Bury half of a salt block nearby, leave sweet corn, apples, carrots there, until you see them pawing for the salt. Then just occasionally leave the food. They will frequent the area, and not care about your scent. Then, when need venison, set the cable loop.

Moose and elk are caught by foot snares, cabled to drag logs. Not as easy/effective as the deer snare, but when you catch one, you get a lot more meat. So you don't need to catch more than one a year. you need a deer per month, along with small critters and fish.

[y2k]

There's no reason to waste time and money on non-military centerfire rifle rds. What matters is your ability to hit, and hit before the critter can move. That takes lots of practice, and milsurp 308 is as cheap as the components to load 270 Win. So the time you spend on loading 270's is wasted, could be spent setting snares, practicing your shooting, stalking.

[DOGMAN]

There are people who "disagree" with the idea that the individual's freedom should be paramount, that 2+2=4, etc. Care to demo WHY what I said is wrong? You can't, or you would have done so. It's a fact that you don't need the rifle, unless combat is an issue, and it's a fact that bolt actions suck for combat. you can not like it all you want, but you can't change the facts. It's far smarter to like what has to be, since it will be, anyway, and all your "not liking" will accomplish is to make you unhappy.

so, who were you quoting with "not liking"?....i dont see any posts in this thread when anyone other than you has used that phrase...

And as far as caring to demo, "Practically anywhere in the lower 48 states, you can see lights at night, if you'll just climb the tallest tree, hill, etc." I'd love to show you lots of places in the lower 48 that you cant see any lights at night...there are wilderness areas all over Montana and Idaho where you cant see any lights at night from the higest points around...I've been to lots of them- obviuosly you havent

[Sourdough]

Bolt actions can't do a thing that autos can't do better, or at least as well, and autos can do things that bolt actions can't touch. You don't need to live where you have to hunt, you see. you can hunt those critters with a used, $400 Remington autorifle, in 308, for cheap milsurp practice ammo,and fine performance with softpoints. Deer are big animals, shots beyond 300m are inhumane, the auto is plenty accurate enough for that. This 1/2 MOA bs has gone way too far. you don't eat crows or prairie dogs, and you can take all of them you want with a handgun, or with traps. ditto the deer, elk and moose, for that matter. Traps and snares work for you 24-7, and you can have scores of them working at the same time. You can only be in one place at once.

You snare deer with a horizontal loop, 6.5-7 ft off of the ground, and hang an apple, carrot, etc, about 1 ft above the loop. Bury half of a salt block nearby, leave sweet corn, apples, carrots there, until you see them pawing for the salt. Then just occasionally leave the food. They will frequent the area, and not care about your scent. Then, when need venison, set the cable loop.

Moose and elk are caught by foot snares, cabled to drag logs. Not as easy/effective as the deer snare, but when you catch one, you get a lot more meat. So you don't need to catch more than one a year. you need a deer per month, along with small critters and fish.

Alaska Hunting Guide use CRF Mausers with converted safety, or pre 1964 Winchester Model 70's.

[y2k]

So? Koreans eat cats. Lots of ignorant people in Alaska, just like anywhere else.

[DOGMAN]

you can take all of them you want with a handgun, or with traps. ditto the deer, elk and moose, for that matter. Traps and snares work for you 24-7, and you can have scores of them working at the same time. You can only be in one place at once.

You snare deer with a horizontal loop, 6.5-7 ft off of the ground, and hang an apple, carrot, etc, about 1 ft above the loop. Bury half of a salt block nearby, leave sweet corn, apples, carrots there, until you see them pawing for the salt. Then just occasionally leave the food. They will frequent the area, and not care about your scent. Then, when need venison, set the cable loop.

Moose and elk are caught by foot snares, cabled to drag logs. Not as easy/effective as the deer snare, but when you catch one, you get a lot more meat. So you don't need to catch more than one a year. you need a deer per month, along with small critters and fish.

So, are you telling this from actual first-hand experience or just stuff you found in a book or on-line? I seriously doubt you have ever caught a moose or elk with a foot snare...and if you did catch one like that- how did you dispatch it once you snared it? let me guess a club....

[kyratshooter]

So survival, without a need to FIGHT, is long since just a fantasy. Fighting and bolt actions went out with the advent of the Garand, in 1940 or so. A bolt action can't even handle a pack of dogs, or get another hit on a fleeing cripple. It's a bad choice, and there's no reason to settle for such, when survival is the issue.

Quite a contridiction between the first and last posts Y2.

It seems you have been associating with people whose IQ is the same as their magazine capacity.

I dare say that most of the AR shooters here would prefer to have their fast shooters, but would remain alive, functional and effective even with an obsolete, unusabile military weapon like the Remington M40, a scoped Mosin, and MIV Einfield or,,,,, oh excuse me, those are rifles in use till today or lasted well into the 1950s in full military service. If I remember right I used to have to call in artillery when small yellow men started pinning down my M16, M60 equipped unit movements using those old bolt action rifles.

Yes, in the Eastern U.S. you can see lights almost anywhere. On the AT one of my complaints was that I could still hear traffic on the roads.

The Russian and German troops were inside the city limits of Stalingrad, where there had been plenty of lights, telephones, busses and automobiles only a few weeks before Sept 1942. Both nations issued a bolt action rifle as their standard weapon and 2,000,000 people died inside that city before Feburary of the next year.

Survival often comes without a fight. Most of the time it comes without a fight. I carry a day pack when on my afternoon walk. I tripped and broke my ankle two years ago, it took me hours to hobble out of that park. All I had was a bottle of water, I was just going over to the urban wilderness area, no biggie! Might know I am the only person in the county that likes to walk in the rain!

Two years ago two little old ladies got off the wrong exit of I75, wound up in the yard of an abandoned barn and died of dehydration and starvation within yards of the highway. No one could see their car, or hear their cries for help. They were in one of the few dead zones for phone service betweem Lexington and Cinncinatti.

It seems that little old ladies never consider using the cigerette lighter in the car to set the broken down old barn on fire so someone will come put it out and rescue them.

As H63 says, "the more you know the less you carry", It works with survival guns too. 99% of the time a fight is won or lost before the first shot is fired, no matter what rifle you carry.

[aflineman]

So? Koreans eat cats. Lots of ignorant people in Alaska, just like anywhere else.

I know many many Koreans (lived over there for quite a few years) and have never known one to eat a cat. (and I find the remark very insulting).
A very broad brush you are using to paint there, calling both Alaskans and Koreans ignorant. This site is not really about zombie firefights and needing the fastest whizbang rifle to kill people. It is more about day to day survival. Many items you can use right now, this minute, at home.
You will find many people here who have been there done that, and continue to do it every day. You might want to rethink calling someone's way of life ignorant, which is what I feel many of you rebuttals do. Just because someone does not see things your way, does not make them stupid.
BTW, just out of curiosity, how many countries have you lived in? What is the longest time you have spent away from civilization? (No electricity, packing water, building a home). Many folks here have spent much of their lives making things with their hands, living with the land, and just boots in the field. Calling them ignorant is hypocrisy at it's best.

[aflineman]

...and if you did catch one like that- how did you dispatch it once you snared it? let me guess a club....

I tried that with a deer which had been hit by a car (way before I had my CCW). They can put up a heck of a fight, when fighting for their lives.

[y2k]

Stalingrad was 70 years ago, against others with just bolt actions. Today, it's against 1022's, AR.s, AK's. In Korea, 1972, I saw lots of dogs kept for eating purposes. My houseboy said he preferred cats, but they were hard to get. Just because someone lives "in the field" doesn't make him aware of what's what in guns. Billions of people live without the luxury of power, etc, and have never HELD a gun. So what makes such people adequate judges of what's what with a gun, hmm? I've lived in Rhodesia, S. Africa, Korea, and the US. What diff does it make if you've lived in 100 countries, and your world is still brown? Ignorance knows no boundaries.

[y2k]

As I said, you can do anything with an auto that you can with a bolt, plus lots more things that the bolt can't touch. So why handicap yourself with the bolt action? Especially one that costs as much or more as the auto?

[y2k]

maybe I could get by with inferior gear, but why should I, or anyone else, take the risk? Guys have $30,000 in an SUV, thousands more in gear, and cry about an "extra" $100 or so for a fighting rifle (as vs a bolt-clunk?)

[DOGMAN]

I tried that with a deer which had been hit by a car (way before I had my CCW). They can put up a heck of a fight, when fighting for their lives.

I've dispatched quite a few animals with sticks over the years- its brutal and never easy. I havent done a deer that way, but fur-bearers are pretty danged tough too....talking about inhumane- killing a deer with a stick thats been stuck in a foot snare for a few hours...I bet that will be some good tasting meat...lol