W/O guns, ammo, armor, what weight BOB?

[lucznik]

First, I am a back packer, not a bug out proponant... My packs and their loads are for recreation. When they start hurting I am officially not recreating.

Same here.

I do not own a BOB, do not have one packed and waiting behind the door. The closest thing I have to that is a day-pack in each of my vehicles.

ditto.

It seems as soon as someone says BOB they instantly start the combat-operations routine. What's your load, how many rounds,weapons "platform", favorite great big combat knife?
I am not a proponent of heading into the woods with the intent of engaging in combat or any other 70-pounds-of-crap activity...
...I must assure the heavily-loaded BOB wearer that... you are a walking Walmart... one we do not need roaming around our area...
...The possibility that you might have some hidden skill... or a fishhook to trade does not overcome the suspicion that you are danger walking into our midst.

AMEN!!

...Today's soldier, even infantry, is transported to combat in a vehicle. Much of the gear is in the vehicle and not on the soldier.
Why does command impose these loads on troops? Because they have short memories and forget common sense between wars.
The average trooper today weighs less than 150 pounds. He can not function while carrying 1/2 to 2/3 of his body weight. You googled the PROPOSED combat load, now google the results of carrying it.

I think we're actually coming from the same essential paradigm; just approaching the point from a slightly different direction.

The report I linked was not about proposed loads, but rather actual loads carried by unmounted (no direct vehicle support) infantry troops during actual combat missions averaging 48-72 hours each in Afghanistan in 2003. The report basically (though much more verbosely) says the same thing you have posted here; combat troops are carrying way too much gear and their effectiveness is way under-par as a result. And that's with young, fit, in-the-prime-of-their-lives fighting men (and women; I don't want to seem sexist).

The report goes on to say that the Army actually has an official rule that states that no soldier should be shouldering any combat load which in total weighs greater than 50lbs, but that this rule is summarily and completely ignored by commanders ranging from platoon sergeants all the way up the ladder to the highest brass.

Anecdotal evidence collected from men I've known who have served in combat operations during the seven years since this report supports the notion that things have not changed for the better.

[kyratshooter]

They will never change, as long as commanders are not carrying their own packs.

Commanders seem afixed to the 70 pound load. Weight saving gear does not lighten the load either, it just means you can get more goodies into the 70 pounds, so you are carrying more high tech stuff when you die.

Check out the basic load for a Roman Legionare, bet you can't guess how much it was right off the top of your head.

Correct, 70, give or take a copuple of pounds.

[Beans]

I have been there. I have started patrols with 70 pounds basic load and 1500 rounds. (Yes, we carried 1,500 rounds, 20 loaded mags and the rest in boxes.) We had to pick those loads up and put them on each other. We could not lift and strap them on ourselves. If we sat down we could not stand up alone. When we stopped for breaks we leaned against trees because it was not worth the trouble of sitting down. If a shot was fired we flipped the strap locks and dumped everything but ammo and water.
.

Boy that is jarring the memories. I was talking with some younger men the other day and they had a hard time believing we carried that many loaded magazines. The only bad thing is that they were 20 rounders not the 30 rounders.

The newbees carried a lot of stuff they thought they needed. The longer they were there the lighter their loads.
No tape recorders, tapes and extra batteries, reading material ETC just beans, bullets, bandages and water.




Semper FI

[kyratshooter]

Yep, the military rule remains firm, you do not get rid of weight, you exchange it.

Switch from an M14 to an M16 you save 5 pounds, correct?

Wrong, you trade the 5 pounds of gun for five pounds of ammo, and two blocks of C4.

Switch from .308 to .223 your ammo weight is half as much, right?

Wrong, you carry twice as much ammo and an extra M60 belt, plus a LAW and three claymores.

Your kelvar helmet is 1 1/2 pounds lighter, thats great! So now we add sappie plates that weight 10 pounds, and make them mandatory.

This is why we that have served always chuckle at the terms "weight savings" and military intelligence.

This is also why the military stresses SOP, constant training and instinctive responses, the troops are too exhausted to think!

The reason they refer to the infantry as grunts is the sound they make when they put on their packs.

And now, with night vision, infared, seismic sensors, observation drones, thermal bombs, the regular infantryman does not have a chance of survival even with body armor.

The only effective ground fighting against the technology is hit and run ambushes, sniping and IEDs.

"Running and Gunning"?

You do not run with a 50-70 pound load, and that is what you will have if you carry food, personal items and an effective combat load.

If you carry enough goodies to get you to the "big north woods" and set up housekeeping for eternity you will not have enough combat gear to do any "gunning" along the way.

The most dangerous person in an emergency situation is the guy with a BOB, lots of ammo and no place to go.

[NightShade]

My BOB is just a small pack with a few items in it... Its in my truck as an "abandon the vehicle and get home" bag.... A change of socks... Spair sweatshirt, folding handsaw, 2 bottles of water, paracord, magnesium firestarter, minimal first aid kit... Couple other small items I can't think of off the top of my head.... It weighs only a few pounds.... I never really got the whole "zombie commando" mentality... Seems counter-intuitive, at least for me...
When I was a kid I used to carry About 100 lbs... Going into the woods with almost everything I owned.. I still train with a heavy pack because I have a wife and 2 small kids , who knows what I'd have to carry for them if the need ever occurred. But when I go out now, I rarely carry more than 10 lbs. I found that most of the gear I never used, and as I learned more, not only did I not end up using it... I really didn't need it...
I'm a minimalist, I like traveling light and comfortable.... Just more fun for me, and I've lasted weeks on supplies that "survivalist" on some sites told me I was woefully unprepared and wouldn't last days on..
I guess it boils down to your skill level, experience, and comfort level.

[SARKY]

Come on people, let's not confuse EDC, GHB, BOB, EBOB, and INCH. They are all for very different purposes even if they are similar in their contents (not quantity)

[NightShade]

Good point Sarky..... I may have been a lil off topic there.. more of a GHB than a BOB in my truck..

But I'd still say weight depends in skill , experience, and comfort levels.

[y2k]

I can most certainly run with 50 lbs, it's the going prone and bouncing up again that sucks, ya know? I'm getting older, and just this past year, the legs have really started to go. I can only do 15 or so 1 legged squats, and I have to hold onto a vertical pole to do any at all. I'm 58.

[y2k]

Walking around in daylight, if shtf, especially if not in thick woods, is just asking to be shot. you don't run much at night, or you'll break a leg, etc.

[NightShade]

ahhhh.. ok.... so if shtf... dont walk around in daylight... y2k will shoot me... Got it!

[kyratshooter]

Truly a superior species. Y2K was brought here by aliens of an advanced type. As soon as the superior race replaces the rest of the mere mortals and prepares the earth for their presence they will return.

[Sarge47]

To answer the original thread question I would have to answer that, stark naked, Bob weighs about 230 pounds, but I've been getting on him to lose some wieght!

[NightShade]

To answer the original thread question I would have to answer that, stark naked, Bob weighs about 230 pounds, but I've been getting on him to lose some wieght!

ROFLMAO.... Sarge, tell Bob I got a killer workout and diet plan... I try to keep myself in peak shape... Tho I am no Y2K... Seems I'm 28 years younger but he's in better shape.

[Sarge47]

I can most certainly run with 50 lbs, it's the going prone and bouncing up again that sucks, ya know? I'm getting older, and just this past year, the legs have really started to go. I can only do 15 or so 1 legged squats, and I have to hold onto a vertical pole to do any at all. I'm 58.

I can most certainly run with 50 lbs, So if we pay you 50 pounds will you run off & leave us alone? it's the going prone and bouncing up again that sucks, ya know? Must be terrible for the Mrs.! I'm getting older, and just this past year, the legs have really started to go. Not to mention the brain! I can only do 15 or so 1 legged squats, (?) and I have to hold onto a vertical pole to do any at all. (?) does the misses know? I'm 58. And that's just your IQ!

[welderguy]

I can most certainly run with 50 lbs, So if we pay you 50 pounds will you run off & leave us alone? it's the going prone and bouncing up again that sucks, ya know? Must be terrible for the Mrs.! I'm getting older, and just this past year, the legs have really started to go. Not to mention the brain! I can only do 15 or so 1 legged squats, (?) and I have to hold onto a vertical pole to do any at all. (?) does the misses know? I'm 58. And that's just your IQ!

OMG that is too dang good, thanks for the laugh.

[Wise Old Owl]

I'm not disputing your info here as I think it sounds very reasonable but, I'm just wondering why, with all this information available that they, themselves generated, does the Army continue to have soldiers shoulder 100+ lb packs?]

....................................

[canid]

there are necessities in military work that do not translate directly to civilian action.

if, as a soldier, you are trained to perform to a certain standard with the 20-50lb of supplies and equipment you are likely to need in a given situation, and not more, to what standard will you perform when you must do the same while moving an m240 and a belt or three of 7.62 you hadn't planned on being to one to carry? or your 200lb buddy who isn't currently ambulatory?

i'd rather be prepared for that situation in advance, and be glad i'm only carrying a lighter load at that moment and the inverse under those circumstances.

if you aren't likely to need to perform like that in your own circumstances, you might not want to subject your only body to that kind of wear in training/condition after all. you still have the option to do so if you should choose.

how much sense it makes is all about the perspective your looking at the situation from.

also: the armed forces will pay for your hernia opperation, where the parks department/forest service where you where hiking/training would not.

[Gilmore]

eh i won't leave my house for anything... its like a stronghold we have literally a bank vault full of guns and ammo (if needed ill post pictures it is 11 tons) and enough food for an army... we have 2 ATVs and 3 Trucks... we also have 2 generators with enough fuel for 900 hours uninterrupted... we even have a clean creek behind our house and we are 1/4 of a mile off the road in heavy cover... UPS has trouble finding our house from the road and i live in a very rural area next to our school so i would be able to escape from my house to the school.. i would say i would have my gun and my knife and thats all if i did need to leave everything i would just take my .243 and my .45 pistol.. with every round we have and i would survive so my BOB would be about 1# without my gun haha

[Survival Guy 10]

That is the politically correct term for "Shoot 'em and loot 'em", the actual plan for most "survival experts" on the internet.

but are they really experts or just twelveyearoldbuggerpickers from detroit

[beetlejuicex3]

My 3-day "BOB" weighs about 19.5 lbs with 2L water. Lightwieght is a must. Less calories burned, less chance of injury, less fatigue, can move further, quicker.

If people are going "ammo and camo" that is their choice. It is what they are familiar with. As other posters, I wonder if they will garnish unwanted attention.

Hey Sarky, what's an "INCH"?