W/O guns, ammo, armor, what weight BOB?

[y2k]

mine comes to 30 lbs. When I add the fighting gear, it goes up to 50 lbs. 50 lbs requires Olympic levels of fitness, if you are to "run and gun" with it. That's why the militaries all figure on dropping the "non mission essential" gear, if they get hit. However, they have quartermaster corps to replace lost gear. We do not.

[SARKY]

30 lbs! What don't you have in there??? My BOB, actually an EBOB weighs in at 65 lbs with 3 liters of water and 2 weeks of food. I am not looking for a fight when i'm buggin' out . if it comes to me then I dump my BOB and take them out. Most of the morons around here don't know how to shoot or what cover is.
While you're at it how about an intro??? Just go to the intro section and fill in the blanks.

[crashdive123]

mine comes to 30 lbs. When I add the fighting gear, it goes up to 50 lbs. 50 lbs requires Olympic levels of fitness, if you are to "run and gun" with it. That's why the militaries all figure on dropping the "non mission essential" gear, if they get hit. However, they have quartermaster corps to replace lost gear. We do not.

What is your experience with the military?

[crashdive123]

Running and Gunning? This is your survival strategy?

Well - maybe after a big bowl of chili.

[Rick]

Running and gunning with 50lbs. If that's my pack it had better be loaded with oxygen canisters. I'm gonna need 'em.

[welderguy]

My ghb with 32 oz water and food for 24 hours weighs close to 30 pounds, my pack I use for hiking/ camping is set up for 72 hours , weighs close to 75 pounds .

[Rick]

I set my 3 day pack up at 28 pounds and I'm gonna cut a bunch of weight on it. I had better have it down to 20 pounds or less. How do you carry 75 pounds? They'd find me squashed flat under the weight. Okay, squashed round.

[2dumb2kwit]

Run and gun? I'm more of a "stay and pray" kind of guy. If I'm runnin', it's cuz my gunnin' wasn't good enough. LOL

[BENESSE]

Run and gun? I'm more of a "stay and pray" kind of guy. If I'm runnin', it's cuz my gunnin' wasn't good enough. LOL

Or the husband got home early.

[welderguy]

I set my 3 day pack up at 28 pounds and I'm gonna cut a bunch of weight on it. I had better have it down to 20 pounds or less. How do you carry 75 pounds? They'd find me squashed flat under the weight. Okay, squashed round.

I can go about 2 or 3 miles at a time then I have to rest for a bit, the longest hike ive made with the 75 pound bag on was 13 miles and that was an all day hike in to camp.

[klickitat]

My BOB is my hunting pack and only weighs about 20#'s. I have survival cache's that are close by to get to.

BTW: I figure if you get into a firefight then you have failed.

[hunter63]

As far as how far I can make it, pack about 30 lbs and one "asset" slow and easy, like smoke, as little trace as possible

Or run-a--gun,... EBR, and double stacked auto loader or two, all ammo and whiskey and ...ah, maybe an energy bar.
People tell me I get mean, when I drink whiskey.........

[Rick]

Well no wonder. Any one that would drink whisky with an energy bar chaser ought to get mean. That's just not right.

[rwc1969]

I'm not a bug out kind of guy, but since visiting these forums I just gotta have one. LOL! keeping up with the Jones'.

Mine is 25-30 lbs. with 3 litres of water and dry food for a good two weeks. Although, I would supplement that with wild gathered and caught stuff. That includes a cook set, shelter, tools for cleaning rifle and repairing rod and reel, stuff for trot lines, snares, basic first aid, hygiene, etc. and 1 set of extra clothes.

I have another BOB which is loaded with more permanent supplies. It weighs 40-50 lbs. with no water and includes everything including a make shift kitchen sink.

Both bags can be combined into one and I can pack them up and down hills and thru the briar patch if need be. I hope need not be.

With the 30 lb. pack I hike open trails at 2.5 to 3.5 miles per hour and off trail rough uneven terrain at 1.5 to 2.5 miles per hour. With the big monstrosity I hike about 1 mph less on average because I stop and take breaks. I'm not some gung ho type so I can take my time and smell the roses. I'm 6' tall and anything over 3.5 miles per hour is a slight jog. Realistically, I can easily cover 15 miles in 10 hours or 24 miles in 16. The most I can recall hiking was 33 miles in 11 hours with a light pack over relatively easy trails and fairly level terrain.

My fishing rod, tackle, rifle and shells adds roughly 10-12 lbs. to the setup.

My setup is changing most every day, getting smaller, swapping this for that. I'm out with my setup at least 3 times a week and I average about 20-40 miles weekly hiking and such.

[kyratshooter]

Running and Gunning? This is your survival strategy?

That is the politically correct term for "Shoot 'em and loot 'em", the actual plan for most "survival experts" on the internet.

Two MREs and 1500 rounds for the black rifle, preloaded in mags with no known BOL or sanctuary site. The black rifle is the tool of necessity for "living off the land".

Without combat gear a BOB is nothing more than a backpack, and should be reguarded as such. An adult in excellent condition, meaning they workout with their loaded pack two of three times a week, has a recomended limit of 20% of their body weight. The average person, who THINKS they are in good condition shoul pack 15% of their body weight and plan to discard unnecessary items for the first day of travel.

In other words, an inexperienced packer will pack what he thinks he needs and by the end of two-three days he will have what he actually needs.

For every pound of rifle, ammo, zombie blade, comm gear and body armor, food or some other necessity must come out of the pack. You do not just keep piling in "necessities" you can not live without.

During WW2 the Army actually did a study of the combat units and load carrying ability. Their #1 finding was that when you reached 50 pounds combat weight the casulty rate increased proportunately. Over 50 pounds, the more you carry the lower your chances of survival due to fatigue and exhaustion. It was noted that a 70 pound load at 3mph for 10 hours would require hospitalization of the average well conditioned soldier.

At age 51, after two back surgeries, I hiked the AT for an entire summer. The longest section without resupply is the strech through the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. It is 70 miles long. The park rangers will not let you enter the park without 7 days food and a minimal first aid kit. My pack weight was 40 pounds. That was everything; sleep gear, shelter, food, clothing for a week and the weight of the pack. I was overloaded. My comfort level is 30 pounds.

[kyratshooter]

Quite true AS.

We must have a plan B and plenty of duct tape.

My Plan A is simply to avoid having to use Plan B at all costs. Armed conflict is down around Plan F-G. Running and gunning, at age 60, is not even in the list of plans.

I chose my location with the purpose of avoiding the surging mobs. I also live in a rural area where there is minimal police presence. Our force is adequite for serving warrants and keeping the overt crime in check, but when crisis of extreme magnitude erupts they will be at the house protecting their kin just like everyone else, not responding the the 911 calls of looters requesting weapons confiscation of target areas.

We had a double murder in our county 3 years ago. A nutcase killed his parents for dope money. It had been 2 years since the previous murder so we have had 2 murders in 5 years and that was family related and the guy got the death penelty.

30 miles away they average 100+ deaths a year in one of the top 5 most dangerous places in America. When things get bad that eliment will travel north or east, but not south or west. It is absolutely, positively too dangerous for them to consider moving this way.

We are a very conservative area. I can hear the call now:

Mob Caller, "We are a mob of looters trying to get some stuff and a guy is shooting at us!"

Dispatcher, "Hold on Sir we will have someone out there with ammo resupply for him in a couple of minutes!"



Most urban dwellers could not walk far enough to get to my area, or they would be too exhaused to make a problem once they got here.

In addition, it is one of those sanctuary areas the limited number of folk that know about it would retreat too. Lots of cabins on the lake owned my lower management and professionals of the nurse/teracher/truck driver type. This is where they would come when their suburban home was no longer safe. Most of them bought their cabins with this in mind. They actually OWN the property they plan on occupying.

I live at everyone elses Plan B location, I guess.

[lucznik]

Just a few comments/questions...

...1500 rounds for the black rifle, preloaded in mags with no known BOL or sanctuary site.

1500 rounds? At 30 rds/magazine that's 50 magazines. This can't be something you plan on carrying.

Without combat gear a BOB is nothing more than a backpack, and should be reguarded as such. ...For every pound of rifle, ammo, zombie blade, comm gear and body armor, food or some other necessity must come out of the pack. You do not just keep piling in "necessities" you can not live without.

So, are you advocating carrying combat gear? I can't tell for sure.

In other words, an inexperienced packer will pack what he thinks he needs and by the end of two-three days he will have what he actually needs.

A beginning hiker that has actually been on a trip or two might end up with what they actually need but, I think the vast majority of the truly inexperienced would end up throwing out some of the more valuable tools in favor of luxury items they just don't want to live without.

During WW2 the Army actually did a study of the combat units and load carrying ability. Their #1 finding was that when you reached 50 pounds combat weight the casulty rate increased proportunately. Over 50 pounds, the more you carry the lower your chances of survival due to fatigue and exhaustion. It was noted that a 70 pound load at 3mph for 10 hours would require hospitalization of the average well conditioned soldier.

I'm not disputing your info here as I think it sounds very reasonable but, I'm just wondering why, with all this information available that they, themselves generated, does the Army continue to have soldiers shoulder 100+ lb packs?

This study of combat loads carried by US infantry soldiers in Afghanistan might interest a few:
http://thedonovan.com/archives/moder...LoadReport.pdf

[hunter63]

This study of combat loads carried by US infantry soldiers in Afghanistan might interest a few:
http://thedonovan.com/archives/moder...LoadReport.pdf

Thanks for the site, good stuff here.

reading over the lists of gear, lots of mention of under shirts, extra socks, but no shorts?, commando?

[crashdive123]

Depends.

[kyratshooter]

First, I am a back packer, not a bug out proponant. I die in place. My packs and their loads are for recreation. When they start hurting I am officially not recreating.

I hurt daily and pain keeps me from sleeping in my nice soft bed. I am not leaving this place so I can hurt worse somewhere I don't like.

I do not own a BOB, do not have one packed and waiting behind the door. The closest thing I have to that is a day-pack in each of my vehicles. The intent of those packs is to get me home if I have to abandon the vehicle. They contain a few survival items, water and an appropriate supply of poptarts. Since I only put about 500 miles a month on my vehicles the packs will probably never get used. Each of the vehicles has a pistol and a rifle but that is just bacause I am an ornery old cuss from KY.

It seems as soon as someone says BOB they instantly start the combat operations routinue. What's your load, how many rounds,weapons "platform", favorite great big combat knife?

I am not a proponant of heading into the woods with the intent of engaging in combat or any other 70 pounds of crap activity.

A combat load is not what you carry while in combat, it is what you carry to combat. Today's soldier, even infantry, is transported to combat in a vehicle. Much of the gear is in the vehicle and not on the soldier.

Why does command impose these loads on troops? Because they have short memories and forget common sense between wars.

The average trooper today weighs less than 150 pounds. He can not function while carrying 1/2 to 2/3 of his body weight. You googled the PROPOSED combat load, now google the results of carrying it. That is where I found my info many years ago. I think it was something like combat load and effect of fatigue on the soldier, or something like that.

I have been there. I have started patrols with 70 pounds basic load and 1500 rounds. (Yes, we carried 1,500 rounds, 20 loaded mags and the rest in boxes.) We had to pick those loads up and put them on each other. We could not lift and strap them on ourselves. If we sat down we could not stand up alone. When we stopped for breaks we leaned against trees because it was not worth the trouble of sitting down. If a shot was fired we flipped the strap locks and dumped everything but ammo and water.

You can not sustain operations with that kind of load. We stripped things down to nothing personal in the gear. I remember starting out one patrol as a platoon leader and realizing the only personal items in my load were 5 pairs of socks, a bunch of cans of peanut butter and water. Everything else was map gear, comm gear, explosives and ammo. (if I had caught a tracer round I would have disapeared in a red puff)

We carried those loads until we could establish a patrol base, where we dumped the gear and carried only what was needed for each mission. We were fighting people that seldom carried more the 10 pounds of gear. And command wondered why they were running in circles around us!

My two sons were both in Iraq as Marine infantry. Their experience was a 60 pound load when they exited the Hummer, most of that being body armor and ammo. I think they said the body armor alone was 40 pounds and they were happy to have it, until summer came. Most of their patrol work was riding with only intermitant walking.

They loved their heavy body armor because their job was to walk around until someobne shot at them so they could react with massive firepower. When your job is to draw fire 40 pounds of body armor sounds like a real good idea.

I supose that anyone can carry anything they can hoist. I must assure the heavily loaded BOB wearer that they are shining like a beacon. To the unprepared you are a walking Wallmart. To us guys that are dug in, you are still a walking Wall mart, one we do not need roaming around our area. It almost sounds like the job of a BOB is drawing fire too.

The possibility that you might have some hidden skill set we need or a fishook to trade does not overcome the suspicion that you are danger walking into our midst.

The first words I want to hear from a "bug outter" are "I'm trying to get to my kinfolk in .....".

That means you actually have some place to go.