hopefully not the guy after the fella who discovered it could be t.p.
hopefully not the guy after the fella who discovered it could be t.p.
Oh, well yuck.
"Dude, look. It's already dried. See? It's brown."
"Cool".
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So i just tried the handdrill method for the first time. and now i have a few questions..
first. is my spindle long enough?
its 18 inches. about knee height..
its made of mullein, but tomorrow i might go look for horseweed.
my main concern right now, is how painful this is. im not sure if its normally like this, or if the mullein is too lumpy.
it specifically hurts like crazy on the top part of my palm. right where your fingers attach.
another question. how broad do you move your hands? do you keep the spindle within your palm? or do you roll it down your fingers too?
and do you move both hands? or should you keep one steady and use the other one to spin the spindle?
lastly. i cant get it to burn in. im not sure if im just not using enough pressure, or if its my wood choice.
i used fremont cottonwood (a CA species of cottonwood) as my fireboard
A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.
- Greek Proverb
18 inches should be about right.
Mullein is pretty lumpy and makes blisters pretty quick unless you do a really good job shaping it.
I use the bottom part of my palm.. the side of my hand where little finger attaches and I roll from about an inch above my wrist, to the pad of callous at my fingers. I rarely use the full length of my hand but I have and find the transition over that lump of flesh usually messes up my grip.
Both hands should move to keep the spindle pretty much straight up.
Cottonwood is supposed to be a good material. I would guess that you're not using quite enough pressure. That could be directly related to the lumpiness..
It's a test to be sure, and I still get sore hands and arms. I'd say it's 50% conditioning and 50% determination LOL. If you can find horseweed today, try it and I think you'll find it a lot easier for learning than mullein. Mullein is doable, probably just not the best to learn with.
hope that helps!
... You could always use the thumb straps on top for added pressure
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yeah after my palms started hurting i started rolling with the pinky side of my palm too..
i actually tried thumb staps. but that presented even more problems than without.
its raining today unfortunately so im gonna have to wait another day to go hiking for horseweed.
A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.
- Greek Proverb
YYC,gave great advice as always.Originally Posted by crimescene450
Interesting,the thumb straps gave you trouble?
Make sure they are long enough to allow the spindle to rotate.Mine are about 5-6 inches long and made from rawhide.Also make sure to carve some of the outer layer off the mullien away.Just the dark brown outer skin that's hard about 1/4 up from the end.I've found this can bind the spindle up a little.
When you start work on just getting a nice pile of dust in the groove.
No real down pressure yet.Just watch the pile grow till it fills the groove.
Then go like crazy and push down hard.
If everything is not damp and your technique is right.Within 4-5 passes down the spindle length,you'll have a coal started.
Make sure to carefully remove the spindle from the fireboard.Fan gently with your hand.I know,easier said than done.But,I'f you keep practising you'll get it.I'll try to post a picture tomorrow if I have the time.
Busy time of the year getting ready for the first snow and cold weather.
Good luck.
well i just got back from a nice post-rainstorm hike. I looked for horseweed, but im not 100% sure what it looked like when its dried up and dead.
i saw some that looked like it, but it was too thin.
it was basically pencil thickness and maybe waist height.
im wondering if it possibly doesnt get as tall here (in CA) because of the drier summers, compared to the rest of its range.
well i dont exactly have the best material.. the only leather i had at hand was the leather lacing from an old baseball glove. so i took that off. for me my proiblem was that either i pushed down, and the leather straps wouldnt give my hands enough room to move. OR i could move my hands, but i would lose pressure.
i can get fire with the bow drill. or at least i could before my idiot brother tossed it in the fire thinking it was burning wood. Im in the process of making another. netherless im framiliar with the concept.
Im gonna wait for my hands to heal a bit before i try again.
right now it hurts to touch anything with more than a couple lbs of pressure.
A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.
- Greek Proverb
for my 18" mullein stick, my thumbstrap was about 12" long, giving 6" for each hand. maybe that will help? I more or less just let my arms hang (gravity for pressure) and focus on the spinning. I like a little warm up.. maybe more for me than the hearth tho, I'm not sure hehe.
Im not sure why, but i am having the hardest time mating (mating? i think the term is) the spindle with the board. I still havent been able to do so.
its just glazing, and the spindle pops out because theres not a big enough crater.
is there something im doing wrong? once again this is mullein on cottonwood..
the horseweed that grows here doesnt get big or thick enough to use. I might try cutting a cattail stalk just to try it
A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.
- Greek Proverb
make your divot a little deeper. I don't actually "burn in" anymore. Once the indention is the diameter of the spindle, I make my notch. If a deeper divot doesn't help, try changing your body position. Ideally, you want to be able to apply spin and pressure from top to bottom without knees, feet, or unmentionables getting in the way.
Also got this nasty blister last night (to the blood) trying to do this sitting on my butt in a "comfortable" position. Whoever said that lied. I find that just like with the bowdrill, it is very hard to do sitting down. While I'm sure some folks can do it consistently sitting down, I cannot. I am comfortable till the notch is full enough, then I get up on one knee.
I've heard of putting a pinch of sand in there to help with the grinding, but I haven't tried it. There are a couple factors to consider. Was the mullein still green, or was it dead when harvested? Was the cottonwood sappy at all? green wood that is cut and cured is not the same as dead wood that has weathered.
I think pressure and body position will help us draw some conclusion as to why you aren't getting good burn.
the mullein was dying when i cut it, i taped it to my bedpost for 3 months so it would dry straight.
the cottonwood was a freshly fallen branch.
i put it in the oven for a few hours, chopped it into pieces, left it in my garage for a week, and then put it in the oven for another few hours.
ive used the cottonwood sucessfully with the bowdrill. (cottonwood on cottonwood)
oh and also, i dont do it sitting down, i do it in the same kind of position as the bowdrill. on one knee leaning over it
A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.
- Greek Proverb
Perhaps the spindle is the problem? Looking back, you tried the thumbstrap.. If the leather broke or whatever, use a shoelace, or piece of nylon cord. It sounds like your position is correct, so it's either an issue with pressure, or the spindle itself. Keep trying. I know you'll get it eventually.
I got a couple new spindles. I figured out the mullein i was using wasnt actually mullein. Not sure what it was. Netherless its a bad spindle.
I went hiking in a new location and found horseweed. I took the longest straightest piece i could get. And tried it today, but when i went to trim the ends off so itd be more square i realized it was hollow.? Doesnt horseweed have a pith? Maybe it rotted away?
I also cut a piece of arroyo willow. But its still semi-green. I dont think itll work too well jsut because its got so many knots on it.
Its really hard to find adequate material around here cuz im currently living in the city (SF)
A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.
- Greek Proverb
I showed a friend last night, how to use mullein with a thumbstrap and he made fire. Of course, he's done it with a little help before so he kinda knew what to do. His biggest difficulty was keeping the spindle vertical and both hands moving lol.
If you trim up the horseweed a little, you should reach a point where the middle is still woody at the node. We had to trim our mullein stick down to a node last night as it started boring out a donut in the hearth.
I'm not familiar with arroyo, but several willows are good hearths, I just have so much of Salix nigra that I haven't bothered to try any others yet.
Try anything you can get your hands on that passes the tests. Trial and error is a tedious process, but I guarantee you won't forget what you learn!
Leave your green piece outside to be rained on, and dried by the sun. Aged wood does not behave the same as weathered wood. It might take several rains and dryings but it will eventually weather. In the meantime, keep your eyes open for dead limbs in trees.
If anybody figures out the trick to using cattail, I'd like to know because all I do is crush it into splinters and barely get any smoke. I've tried about 5 different stalks so far, of various diameters, lengths, and ages. They all do the same (or maybe it's me!) I've heard so much about using cattail and how good it's supposed to be, but I can't get it to work for the life of me!
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