quest for food-scenario

[wareagle69]

so lets say it happens, what ever it may be, but now there are no vehicles and for the next year or so the government syas its not going to be much better, projected time to normal life is two years.
so my question is, even if you are a bug in type of person, such as myself two years is a long time, how would you feed yourself, but more importantly where (say it again) where would you look for food, get it? where? how far off the beaten road whould you go?
if you came to a fork in the road one heading to a small town of 5,000 5 miles down a or a road headed to a couple of camps 15 miles down the road (according to the map)
or maybe would you try the small side roads or would you head deep into the bush? in hope of what?
just trying to get a handel on where you would look for food, remember this is a two year scenario there is light at the end of the tunnel btu who has 2 yrs of food stored, so what would you do and where would you look.
thanks for participating in this thought experiment
WE

[gryffynklm]

For me the hardest to find will be animal protein. Around me, many households have a hunter. This has been brought up before in other discussions. After a while over hunting and folks protecting their hunting grounds will make hunting difficult. Unless you know some body. Good hunting for me is a mile away but can in itself be dangerous. Fishing is 200 yards away but can quickly become over fished. There again just like hunting folks living at the river will likely try to protect their resource. I will do all I can as long as I can. My diet will likely lean toward vegetarian.

This year I'm sharing produce from the garden. So far this season, my garden is doing great with zucchini, yellow squash, Bush Beens, Snap Peas, Peppers and similar are doing well, Still waiting on tomatoes. I have three tomato spots in my yard, I'm trying to find the best spot (lots of shade trees). I will trade my produce for some tomatoes, spinach, broccoli, cabbage, corn and a few other things.

There are three gardens now focusing on non hybrid crops so we can harvest seeds and keep things going. The subject of survival has only lightly come up in discussion, its been more an organic produce sort of thing. There are a few there in the neighborhood that want to participate next year. So fine.... we have a garden in a survival situation like WE describes. Just like above, We will want to defend and protect our resource. Its never ending, No matter how much we prepare if others know what you have, someone will want in and possibly by force.

I enjoy studying wild edibles and have identified some of what is growing locally, I need to work more on this. I couldn't estimate what quantities I would be able to harvest in a situation seasonally. Not exactly something to count on.

I'm definitely not were I want to be on this subject but thought I would post what I have been doing and my thoughts.

As far as food stores go I'm doing well testing out what I have. A little rotating of stock and a little cash short. I Will be able to restock by Sept. At least I got a good look at what I need to change on what I buy and find recipes to use the things I avoided. Need to stock more rice, and less creamed corn. I also discovered how much bread and grains I missed. I'm not prepared for making bread or have a grain or flour storage. I used to think that it wasn't such a big deal not preparing for this food group, well I have changed my mind, I miss the carbs. This was a good exercise.

[wareagle69]

the reason i ask this question - of where would you look- is because last tuesday the pager goes off at work, wildfire, ah a reason to leave was working on a rotary joint on the wet end of the paper machine, only about 120 with humidity, and the mill has an agreement to let firefighter go, anywho, i respond to this fire down a back road and turn down this small trail that leads to some rather large feilds just packed full of wild edibles, like hundreds of acres of feilds surrounded by forest, would never have known it was there, just driving down the road on would assume that it was just lots of bush back there.
second reason is at the mill we have a cafateria and also several lunch rooms as it is a large mill, in all these lunch rooms are full kitchens and lots of food stored in these kitchens, would never have thought to look for food there.
also another reason i ask is i wonder how far off the beaten path someone might go to look for food, like i leave a bit of food at the house but then have several caches, would you lloot the house then move onto other homes, orwander in the bush, i think the probability of findiong food in the bush is remote compared to small towns so i stash food in remote areas in buried freezers.
just trying to get a handel on where some might look for food

[Rick]

I think a lot depends on when the event occurs. At the start of winter puts a lot of folks at high risk just because wild edibles are more scarce and the cold. In any case, I would imagine that if you survived six months then things would become a little easier because most will have passed on by then. I'll give them two months of resources in house but once all the food is gone then folks will begin to starve off. The Irish Famines would be a good example of folks that knew and understand wild edibles still perishing for lack of food.

So year two, assuming you survive, should become a bit easier with less folks competing for resources. If you have seed then your garden will be like a cornucopia to help sustain you. Far less people trying to steal your bounty.

It would be a difficult scenario. As to where I would look...

Lake offers fish, turtle and muscles. Farm fields will begin to revert so a lot of field edibles beginning in spring.

All frozen meats would have to be thawed and smoked or jerkied or salted to preserve.

Farm fields would also be a good source of seed for corn or milo, etc., even non-traditional field foods like tomatoes if you live near a corporate farm. Lot's of pine and roses in the area so Vitamin C will be good over the winter.

[wareagle69]

that is the problem.
most city folks with migrate to the rural areas thinking the farms will feed them. lets look at a few problems with that.
first off, most domestic crops have to be planted, sure some will revert to the wild ,but, as with wild edibles they will only have a short season for harvest, just look at rwc's post to confirm that, with haveing to harvest allot in such a short time, how do you transport it all and secure it.only by becoming a memebr of said community will that happen.
2nd, i think most farm animals will be killed off in the first year, it takes allot to feed them especially thru a winter now sure some farms may be able to feed the first yr but how to harvest after that enough hay to sustain them.
lakes are a great source of food, but how many here practice shore fishing, i do and i suck at it, easier to fish with a mask and a net, currently against the law, but i still try it and release
there is also the issue of food fatigue

[Rick]

I didn't mean harvesting seed from plants. There are all kinds of seeds that will be laying on the ground from the current crop. Either because folks trampled the plants trying to get food or because harvesting (if it already happened) invariable drops seed. You can then gather that seed to plant in your own garden the next spring unless its hybrid. Even if it is you could use the seed to make flour.

The second year the farm fields will begin to revert to wild edibles because no planting was done (you said no vehicles) so those flat farm fields will gather in all of nature's seeds and begin to sprout. They should be an abundant source of things like thistle and nettle and dandelion.

I agree on the fishing. If you expect to survive that has to be done with some method that produces a lot with little effort. Weirs and nets.

[wareagle69]

so i gather from the banter here that you plan to make your way to the agricultural areas, or lakes. but most likley not into the bush in search of food.
so even if you made it to these meccas of food then what?
how would you harvest and prepare your food for consumption and preservation.
makes me think tho that even tho i have a few stashes in the wilds i need to add some ways of cooking like some small pots and utensils at each cashe just in case(no pun intended)

[gryffynklm]

In my area there are many locations along the train tracks that offer wild edibles. The tracks follow the river going through farm fields and occasional farm fields. There are copperheads and Timber rattlers to watch out for. The plants and animals in these areas are unknown as a food source by most of the folks that live here.

WE you bring up a good point. Like this field you mention the train tracks path takes me to a lot of resources that I have glanced at but have not made it part of my wild edibles study. A glance to recognize a few plants in passing is not the same as knowing what is out there. Time to go for a hike and do a survey.

[gryffynklm]

The preservation is a part I'm lacking right now. The Pickle recipe Nell posted and your mention of pots utensils and preservation has made me realize that that Although I'm putting up harvest for later consumption, I haven't stocked up on jars and extra lids. Lets not forget the spices, salts, vinegar and other ingredients necessary for the preservation process itself. With out the supplies i couldn't sustain canning. Thanks for the reminder.

I also want to incorporate solar dehydration into my preservation preps but haven't built it yet.

[Rick]

Personally, I'm already there. I live next to a lake and several decent sized rivers/creeks. The farm fields are all around me. The closest is about three blocks. I have no desire to head to the bush unless it's a blackberry bush.

[Winnie]

Personally, I'm already there. I live next to a lake and several decent sized rivers/creeks. The farm fields are all around me. The closest is about three blocks. I have no desire to head to the bush unless it's a blackberry bush.

I'm right there with you, Rick. My location is more or less identical, except I'm more isolated. Don't know whether that's a good or bad thing. I certainly don't intend leaving unless forced to do so.

[Pal334]

As I have stated in the past, our plan now is stay put as long as possible. I live on a dead end street near a large military complex. Most neighbors are retired military with a sprinkling of active duty military. THere is just about enough food stuffs stashed to make it the 2 years, and with us taking care of active duty neighbors there should be enough of an influx of goods from the base to make things last. Worst case, if a bug out is called for, by our "table topping" (see my post that subject) our plan and routes, we should be able to get out to a decent place which is already doing farming etc to get us by. There are of course "curve balls" that could come our way, but am comfortable with the basic plan (and constant improvements) for now. I personally would avoid "built up" areas in the event of a bug out if at all possible (although they are noted in "The Plan" if needed)

[Rick]

The thing that gets sticky, I think, is where to draw the line. You have to include your kids and grandkids and that certainly means DIL/SIL but what about his or her parents? Their brothers/sisters? Your parents, your aunt/uncle, neices and nephews? (those are listed in no particular order). You have food to last you and who you planned for to last X amount of time. Then you have others showing up because they are kin.

What about your pets. When food runs scarce will you eat them? I know some on here will, I sure would, but a lot of folks won't. What about dog and cat food?

[Winnie]

All good points, Rick. Thankfully I'm hard-nosed enough to turn away all but immediate family if i needed to. It's not that I don't want to help. But you have to draw a line. Supplies can only stretch so far and I would see a few family members come through it intact than all fail because there is insufficient stores.
It's not a decision I came to lightly, but I also happen to think people should take more resposibilty for themselves.
There are certain circumstances where less close family, friends or neighbours would be welcomed. If they had stores of their own or skills that could enhance the survival of the family.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

that is the problem.
most city folks with migrate to the rural areas thinking the farms will feed them. lets look at a few problems with that.
first off, most domestic crops have to be planted, sure some will revert to the wild ,but, as with wild edibles they will only have a short season for harvest, just look at rwc's post to confirm that, with haveing to harvest allot in such a short time, how do you transport it all and secure it.only by becoming a memebr of said community will that happen.
2nd, i think most farm animals will be killed off in the first year, it takes allot to feed them especially thru a winter now sure some farms may be able to feed the first yr but how to harvest after that enough hay to sustain them.
lakes are a great source of food, but how many here practice shore fishing, i do and i suck at it, easier to fish with a mask and a net, currently against the law, but i still try it and release
there is also the issue of food fatigue

In this statement I think you have accurately portrayed the problem and by doing so the solution as well. Most food harvesting is seasonal and a person MUST harvest as much as they can when it is time to do so. I have stated this several times in severals ways. You have to always stay on top of your food supply. If you harvest your food at the grocery store NOW would be the time to stock up. The sea has always provided me with easy food and I believe it will be the last resource to go since there are more places for creatures to escape man. There will be competition and all the easy fish will be taken from all the easy places but the best fisherman will still catch fish. I don't hold out much hope judging by the posts I've seen on fishing that many possess the needed skill but that encourages me knowing there will be more for me. If the ocean dies so does the planet.

[NightShade]

I live on a not-so-well-known body of water that is loaded with a variety of fish and very few fisherman k ow about this spot... Mostly due to the fact that very close by (within 2 mile radius) there are many much bigger and well known lakes...along with a ton of smaller ponds... Within a few hundred yards of my house there is 1 major river and 3 smaller rivers.. All with many fish.
I also live resonably close to the coast and have plenty of experience harvesting seafood from the ocean 3 seasons a year....
I have decent knowledge of wild edibles and also have a small garden... I have done extensive surveying of wild edibles in the area I live.. My house now is 5 miles from the house I grew up in.. I have intimate knowledge of the woods and fields locally.
I am an acomplished hunter of all large and small game available locally... In the anti-hunting suburbias in Massachusetts there is a huge overpopulation of many game animals.... Deer and squirrel pop into mind immediatley.
I have experience in raising livestock.. And have family close by who still do...
I have a stockpile of food but its not to big and I would imagine rather unimmpressive by WSF member standards.

I intend in using all the methods mixing them up due to productivity seasonally.

[rwc1969]

Food is the last thing I'd be worried about now and I would be hunting right in the backyards of all my "non-outdoorsy types" houses. They won't even know I'm there and the law will hopefully be busy with other things. There is so much state land around it ain't funny, lakes, rivers, ponds every seven or so miles. I will garden, hunt and gather. There is so much food just laying out in the woods rotting and getting ran over by cars and such it ain't funny. I'd probably just grow starchy foods like taters and carrots to make the most of the garden and supplement the things that are hard to find, are generally hard to procure, or taste bad from the wild.

The hard part would be keeping all the numpties outta my garden cuz they'd be starving big time. They wouldn't eat the foods I eat unless they saw it on a menu in a fine restaurant. Then they'd give their last dollar/ ounce of salt just for a chance to fit in with the cultural elite.

I've thought before that everyone would be doing the same and all the game would be gone, but it ain't so. They wouldn't have the motivation to get out there and hunt em down like I do. I could see a problem of people poaching my spots and selling their finds to the numpties after they've raped their own spots, but I'd have to put a stop to that as well. I'd put them on my dinner plate or sell them to the numpties as venison. They wouldn't know the difference. Heck they'd probably like the taste of human better than a good fat free strap of unspoiled goodness. Let the govt. work on getting things back in order for them I'll be busy living.

I'd like to find some info on the caloric content of the wild foods I eat to see just how much it would take. One deer a month?, 300 bluegills?, 5 galon bucket full o' nightcrawlers?, 50 lbs. of cattail shoots, daylilys, milkweed, nettle, the list goes on. I wonder how much it would really take. If taters and carrots were my only real source of carbs how many would I need for me, my family, neighbors, friends? One acre? ten?

[Rick]

Here it is for wild game:

http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm....ion-value.html

[rwc1969]

Interstingly enough whitetail deer and squirrel have the same caloric content, more than chicken if I read it right, which is surprising.

After reading thru everyone else's posts I think the biggest concern isn't where you'd get food, but how you'd keep others from getting to it before you, taking it from you, or protecting it from them. How do you divy it up among the tribe? and how do you let tribe members who aren't pulling their weight down easy? You sure can't keep em suckling off everyone else or everyone dies.

As far as family goes, neighbors and the like they're all welcome here, but they gotta pull their own weight. If they're old or feeble then we'll find a way to provide for them, but otherwise you either learn the ways, provide input, and go along with the plan or your fired. No unemployment, no welfare, just the horse you rode in on. Oopps! too late, we ate your horse yesterday, now GTFO or we'll eat you.

I know that might sound like I'm joking but it's the real deal.

Another thing that worries me is how to store all the food without electricity or the like. I'm not up on food storage and that's something else I need to work on in a bad way. I've heard of ways, but when you're life depends on it it's another story. What if the food rots, or you eat it and get sick? How do you know if it's safe to eat? Eat it? What if it looks and smells good, but is full of bacteria or the like?

Up the creek without a paddle, a real bad tummy ache, and a whole canoe full of food.

Besides that, if there was ever a govt. declared 2 year collapse there would be so much chaos it would take twenty years to get things back to normal. I doubt many here in the US would starve. We'd just end up killing each other off before we ever got real hungry.

[crashdive123]

I think the key would be to gather as much, as fast as you can and preserve it. For me, seafood is definitely going to top the list as far as proteins go. I don't possess the skills to survive on wild plantlife, and I don't believe that many of my neighbors do either. I think that we, as a neighborhood (at least those that stay) could effectively organize and turn our residential, landscaped and manicured yards into gardens. I'm talking about the entire yard. All of them. I know that my food preps, along with a few others would last for at least a year with sensible rationing. I am slowly increasing them. I know that some of the neighbors do not prep at all. The attrition rate would probably be rather high after a few months, and up to a year. After that, those that have stayed and worked together would probably do quite well.