cooking over fire with primitive containers

[crimescene450]

does anyone know what primitive humans used to cook over fire with?

would pottery be able to take, and conduct the heat at all?

[Alaskan Survivalist]

A stick. A multi purpose tool also used for hitting each other over the head.

[crimescene450]

Wouldnt pottery crack from the heat?

[crashdive123]

You can cook with it. Here are some guidelines and tips to help ensure your food is cooked properly and that your pottery lasts. http://www.comitatus.net/research_files/claypot.pdf

[Rick]

I'm not sure how far back you want to go for "primitive" but pottery has been used to cook in for a very long time. In the Middle East they have historically used a pot called a tajine (some variations in spelling). It's made of clay.

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But clay pots of all kinds have been used even in the U.S. from earliest times.

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[gryffynklm]

Are you asking if its possible or wondering how to make a clay cooking vessel?

The links below discuss and include links to web pages that cover clay preparation and tempering to avoid cracking during firing.

Here is an earlier thread about making clay pottery.
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...t=clay+pottery

This thread has more information about clay preparation and firing the clay.
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...t=clay+pottery

[hunter63]

Cooking in a hide bag either directly over a fire, or by putting heated stones in the hide bag. (Caution, some can and do explode from the heated water inside),

This was common even back to caveman days.
http://www.wynja.com/arch/cooking.html

[justin_baker]

Primitive people didnt have the luxury of pots and pans like us. Usually they put their meat on a stick and just roasted it. As for veggies, they probably ate them almost always raw. But some plants (like milkweed) are toxic if not boiled, and indians were known to enjoy tea quite a bit.
So what they did is they took some kind of container (lets say wooden), heated up rocks in a fire, and then placed into the wooden pot. This would heat up the water and get it to a boil, although this is a very time consuming process.
I really dont know much about any other methods though. A clay pot if you could cook in it would revolutionize the way that a tribe would cook.

[Camp10]

I remember seeing a pot made of birch bark being used to boil water over an open fire. It was a picture that was in a book I read many years ago about some of the local indians.

[Rick]

Turtle shells were used as well. Obviously, the turtles were less than thrilled with this method.

[justin_baker]

I remember seeing a pot made of birch bark being used to boil water over an open fire. It was a picture that was in a book I read many years ago about some of the local indians.

Thats crazy....you would have to be so delicate and careful not too set it on fire.

[Camp10]

Thats crazy....you would have to be so delicate and careful not too set it on fire.

Scroll down to page 6.
http://essentialstuff.org/wp-content...2610a_cprs.pdf

[crimescene450]

Are you asking if its possible or wondering how to make a clay cooking vessel?

The links below discuss and include links to web pages that cover clay preparation and tempering to avoid cracking during firing.

Here is an earlier thread about making clay pottery.
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...t=clay+pottery

This thread has more information about clay preparation and firing the clay.
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...t=clay+pottery

i was asking how they did it, because i assumed the pottery would explode
which apparently it would unless it was heated slowly

sounds like a pain
haha

as for making pottery
im going to ohio soon and i know a nice place along the chagrin river that has some clay
i might try taking some and maybe oven-ing it up

Turtle shells were used as well. Obviously, the turtles were less than thrilled with this method.

do you think turtle shells would have exploded too?

I remember seeing a pot made of birch bark being used to boil water over an open fire. It was a picture that was in a book I read many years ago about some of the local indians.

yeah thats kinda like how you can boil water in a paper cup, as long as its full

has something to do with physics or something like that
haha

[Rick]

I was being tongue in cheek. Sorry. The turtle shell was a joke with the turtles being upset.

[gryffynklm]

Crimescene, Read the posts I linked to to find out a bit about cleaning the clay, shaping, drying and pre firing before you actually fire the clay. Firing the clay is a long process. depending on the size of the clay pot it could take 6 to 8 hours in the coals. Good luck

[your_comforting_company]

properly tempered pottery will not explode in use. An oven will not get hot enough to fire pottery fully (unless your oven gets over 800 degrees F), you need pretty high temperatures to fully fire pottery. The Natives of my area made pottery that was used regularly to cook in. It was no big deal to make more if the clay cracked.
Hide bowls and hot rocks as mentioned already were used. It's not as tedious or time consuming as one might think. It takes about 10 minutes to heat the rocks up and less than 5 to bring the water to a boil once the rocks start going in the pot.
Turtle shells is pretty delicate and since it's bone will degrade rather quickly in the fire. The hot rock method would work nicely with a shell.
Judging by the amount of pottery found in fields and such around my area, I would say that (at least in my area) the Natives made pottery. Some were flat plates, some were drinking cups, some were storage vessels, and some were dedicated to cooking. As long as you heat the pottery evenly (not necessarily slowly) It shouldn't crack and break. Earthenware vessels are quite resilient when treated with care. The natives didn't make use of glazes much, but I have found glaze recipes that use sand and wood ashes (and a few other ingredients could be substituted). Pottery is a great conductor of heat.

Here is a picture of a small dish I made that can be used to warm up meat-stuffs or just for eating. I've made a few other things also, but it's just too hot right now to be watching an open pit-fire. I'll be back on primitive pottery as soon as the temps drop off enough to justify a fire.
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[justin_baker]

With clay pottery, would you want to cook on an open flame or restrict yourself to just coals?

Also, at a nature preserve there are some volcanic rocks with natural depressions in them. One is particular was used for grinding acorns. If you had a big enough depression, couldnt you put the rock int fire and it would work just as good as a metal pot? Coudlnt you take a softer rock, and use the grind peck and methods to force a depression in it?

[Alaskan Survivalist]

Primitive man had enough sense to use what was available to them. Clamshells should be abundent in California to cook in. I have the feeling if primitive man was around today they would use car hoods, old tin cans or whatever metal they could find until they got thier hands on a cast iron pot and then hang on to it for dear life as long as they lived.

[gryffynklm]

I use clay vessels sort of like cast iron. It depends on what I'm cooking. If I'm cooking soup I would begin cooking over the flames because the much hotter spots were the flame comes in contact with the pot usually do not scorch food as easily with all the liquid. I would still finish the soup over coals at a slow simmer. If I'm roasting in a covered clay pot I would use coals so that I have uniform heat to avoid burning or scorching the food. This may be more of a personal preference then a standard rule.

[your_comforting_company]

A rock with a natural depression could very easily be used as a frying pan, if you have enough animal fat to keep it full of grease. Rocks tend to absorb liquids, but in a pinch there's no doubt in my mind it would work well.
If you have a soft enough rock that is stable in the fire, you could peck a bowl out of it for use. The trick here is finding a soft rock that won't explode in the fire. At least in my area, the softer rocks you find are mostly limestone, which is not particularly stable when heated (calcium likes to expand). Shells were typically pre-fired to stabilize them. I know, I know... shells are mostly calcium too, but it's somehow different and many times clam shells were burned and crushed for use as temper in clay vessels.
Not sure if I entirely answered your question.
Were I in a survival situation that required the making of cooking vessels, earthenware would be my first choice. A few simple test runs can tell you if the clay is suitable for dinnerware. None of it has to be excessively accurate, so you don't need exact measures and after a while, you wouldn't need to measure anything at all.. You'd get a "feel" for the clay and could make pots on a whim.

I think I'll fire a sort of pan and see how it holds up on the fire. Maybe cook some fish in it with wild onions and okra. yummmmm.