Forest Fire, Now what ?

[Alaskan Survivalist]

When the wind is blowing fire will travel fastest in direction of wind. I would travel west or east depending on terrain that would provide least fuel for fire. Take note that animals will be fleeing fire. Moose and other animals that are otherwise docile can become dangerous when spooked.

[oly]

From what I hear is that wind direction will influence the direction of a fire but once it hits the base of a mountain it can create its own wind and race up the mountain.
So what I would do is to get off the hillside or ridge and into a valley heading up wind.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

From what I hear is that wind direction will influence the direction of a fire but once it hits the base of a mountain it can create its own wind and race up the mountain.
So what I would do is to get off the hillside or ridge and into a valley heading up wind.

It depends which direction the wind is blowing when it hits the mountain. I am especially aware of this flying small aircraft. Adding micro climates complicates the senario but the principal remains solid, get off wind. There are lots of fires here and you can clearly see the lines they take. There are too many variables not outlined in senario.

[Justin Case]

Yes, Heat rises, Fire will go upslope, even against wind given there is fuel.

[rudyumans]

Studies of wildland firefighter deaths led to the development of The Ten Standard Firefighting Orders. In every case where a firefighter was killed while fighting a wildland fire, it was shown that one or more of the Ten Standard Orders had been ignored. Violating one or more of these orders may re sult in firefighter deaths.

The orders are guidelines that help firefighters identify and avoid high-risk situations. Every firefighter should know and follow them. Being able to recite them is commendable, but putting into practice is more important. Each order should be considered separately so firefighters will recognize when it applies during a fire and respond correctly.

FIRE ORDERS
F.IGHT FIRE AGGRESSIVELY BUT PROVIDE FOR SAFETY FIRST.
I.NITIATE ALL ACTION BASED ON CURRENT AND EXPECTED FIRE BEHAVIOR.
R.ECOGNIZE CURRENT WEATHER CONDITIONS AND OBTAIN FORECAST.
E.NSURE INSTRUCTIONS ARE GIVEN AND UNDERSTOOD.

O.BTAIN CURRENT INFORMATION ON FIRE STATUS.
R.EMAIN IN COMMUNICATION WITH CREW MEMBERS, YOUR SUPERVISOR, AND ADJOINING FORCES.
D.ETERMINE SAFETY ZONES AND ESCAPE ROUTES.
E.STABLISH LOOKOUTS IN POTENTIALLY HAZARDOUS SITUATIONS.
R.ETAIN CONTROL AT ALL TIMES.
S.TAY ALERT, KEEP CALM, THINK CLEARLY, ACT DECISIVELY.

Well, I am not very experienced in this kind of thing, but to me it seems that in your scenario "D", "R", and "S" here are of the essence.

You did not say whether the helicopters were flying in the same direction as you were walking or perpendicular. You also did not say if you know your position on the topomap. That map is nice if you know where you are. Otherwise, what good is it?

I would probably walk back in the same direction as I came (as somebody suggested) At least I would know that my car should be there somewhere. Hopefully you left some breadcrumbs.

I would also look for animals and see if they all go (run/fly) in the same direction.

[Justin Case]

Just don't stop to take Pics Rudy ! LOL

Lets say the helicopters are flying North and South,

[rudyumans]

Just don't stop to take Pics Rudy ! LOL

Lets say the helicopters are flying North and South,

I said what I would do if I were you. Me? I would try to find the firefighters and take a 1000 pictures.

Actually, It doesn't really matter in what direction the helicopters are flying because you don't know if they are coming or going and what their distance is from the water source and/or fire. Unless the helicopters have a readable number and you can figure out how long it takes for them to return. (you still wouldn't know what is closest, but you might be able to tell by how fast they are flying. assuming they fly slower when loaded.)

BTW, This looks like a quiz. Do we win anything expensive and tangible? (besides the knowledge that might save our life one day)

Grasshopper

[Justin Case]

LOL,, no prize, I just thought it was a scenario we have not done yet,, (I am NOT very good at hosting scenarios,, sorry,

[rudyumans]

I think you are doing just fine. ( a little disappointed about the no prize though :-))

[hunter63]

So, JIC, is there an answer/ end game?, or are we just gonna waltz around till we get tired of it?

I propose that when presenting a problem/scenario, that a conclusion (be it actual or proposed) should be also presented, as "The Right Thing To Do in this situation".

[rudyumans]

So, JIC, is there an answer/ end game?, or are we just gonna waltz around till we get tired of it?

I propose that when presenting a problem/scenario, that a conclusion (be it actual or proposed) should be also presented, as "The Right Thing To Do in this situation".

Not sure if there should be a conclusion. There are so many variables. The main objective, for me at least, is that we are reminded of those variables, all the things we need to pay attention to, and to be constantly aware of our surroundings.

For many of you this might be second nature, but for newbies like me it might be a different story.

[Justin Case]

well, Having been a Firefighter, If it was me, the second I smelled smoke, I would look for a clearing of some sort or water, and remove as much fuel from there as possible, I would assume i was going to be overrun by the fire, If I could not get to water, I would find or make a clearing, and attempt to dig in, and let the fire pass over, then retreat into the Burn, (no more fuel), anyplace without combustible material is where I would want to be, Rock outcrop, whatever, Trees "Usually" will not fall when burned, and the fire will most likely pass over you quickly, The end game ? be aware, Make your stand, its doubtful you would outrun it, all Wild land Firefighters carry fire shelters on their belt, This is simply a small mylar tent, Many Firefighters were saved by deploying their shelters and allowing the Fire to burn over them , anyway, I just thought it would be a fun scenario.

[rudyumans]

well, Having been a Firefighter, If it was me, the second I smelled smoke, I would look for a clearing of some sort or water, and remove as much fuel from there as possible, I would assume i was going to be overrun by the fire, If I could not get to water, I would find or make a clearing, and attempt to dig in, and let the fire pass over, then retreat into the Burn, (no more fuel), anyplace without combustible material is where I would want to be, Rock outcrop, whatever, Trees "Usually" will not fall when burned, and the fire will most likely pass over you quickly, The end game ? be aware, Make your stand, its doubtful you would outrun it, all Wild land Firefighters carry fire shelters on their belt, This is simply a small mylar tent, Many Firefighters were saved by deploying their shelters and allowing the Fire to burn over them , anyway, I just thought it would be a fun scenario.

Couple of questions,

How deep do you need to dig? Assuming you lay in the hole face down, how do you cover yourself with the soil you just dug up in case you don't have a mylar tent? What about burning roots? The mylar tent is a good idea (especially this time of the year), but is it feasible (weight/size) for the average day hiker? Are they available to the public?

[hunter63]

I have to agree with both of you, Newbies (or even me, want to know), and I also agree that variables are endless.
Still a "probable solution/s", should be presented so as to not confuse those who don't know and are left trying to figure out what the correct thing to do would be.

It's always fun to go thru scenarios, as a lot of info is presented, and if you/I can pick out one good idea, or method, it's worth the mental exercise, to go thru it.
Thanks, boys...........

[Justin Case]

Couple of questions,

How deep do you need to dig? Assuming you lay in the hole face down, how do you cover yourself with the soil you just dug up in case you don't have a mylar tent? What about burning roots? The mylar tent is a good idea (especially this time of the year), but is it feasible (weight/size) for the average day hiker? Are they available to the public?

well, The deeper the better, but as long as you can get below the heat you would be better off than sitting at ground level, you would not have cover yourself as the fire would go around you, (of course, there would be a LOT of radiant heat, but it would probably be survivable, I was wrong, Fire shelters are more than Mylar, (they look like mylar) but,

from wikipedia
A fire shelter is a safety device of last resort used by wildland firefighters when trapped by wildfires. It is designed to reflect radiant heat, protect against convective heat, and trap breathable air (most firefighters deaths are from inhaling hot gases) in an attempt to save the firefighter's life. First required in the United States in 1977, fire shelters are constructed layers of aluminum foil, woven silica, and fiberglass. When deployed, its maximum dimensions are 86 in. x 15.5 in. x 31 in. (approximately 218.44 cm x 39.37 cm x 78.74 cm) and is shaped like a mound. When the shelter is packed into its carrying case, its dimensions are 8.5in. x 5.5 in. x 4 in. (approximately 21.59 cm x 13.97 cm x 10.16 cm). The New-Generation fire shelter was developed in 2002 to replace the old style fire shelter which is shaped like a pup-tent and has a carrying case. Its dimensions are smaller than that of the old-Generation shelter.[1]

The first known use of a fire shelter was in 1804, when a boy was saved from a prairie fire when his mother covered him with a fresh bison hide. Clark noted in his journal that the fire did not burn the grass around the boy.[2]

These are the ones we carried, and Yes you can buy them here http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-FIRE-SHELTER...item45f2698c21

worth every cent !

Here is a Shelter deployment pictorial with Radio audio, (this is a real incident where Firefighters were overrun )
This is in Southern California,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0lAtZVPiv4

[rudyumans]

Thanks. That was a lot of good info. Those shelters are cheap enough and shouldn't be an excuse for not getting one

Anyone who has seen 100 ft flames up close and personal has a whole different perspective on these things. (I saw it from pretty close a couple of years ago. Pictures (not even mine) can't do it justice.

[Rick]

Crash had put together a sticky on survival scenarios to take some of the variables out of it.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ead.php?t=5477

[Sarge47]

I guess I'd take my "smore-making kit" & head on over to the big campfire!

[Justin Case]

Thanks. That was a lot of good info. Those shelters are cheap enough and shouldn't be an excuse for not getting one

Anyone who has seen 100 ft flames up close and personal has a whole different perspective on these things. (I saw it from pretty close a couple of years ago. Pictures (not even mine) can't do it justice.

Ya know, One of those Fire shelters would be handy in case you need a weather shelter also,, Belt carried and a great insulator , Hmmmm you can get them on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-FIRE-SHELTER...item45f2698c21

Heres a pic of one,
Note: There is no floor.

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