Long term fuel storage--Propane?

[hunter63]

Just got back from "The Place" about two weeks worth.
Had a couple of "occurrences" that got me thinking.

One was a power outage, turned out to brief, and the cabin is pretty much able to "stand alone", wood stove, propane cook stove, lanterns, candle lanterns, and plenty of battery powered lights, flashlights, radios etc.
Weak spot is the pump........got to work on that.
Have a couple of Gen-sets, but gas powered.

The other was just a simple propane bottle on the grill running out.
As I hooked up an old 20 lb bottle, has to be 20 years old, all rusty looking and nasty.........work just fine........got me thinking the for long term storage, propane has to be considered as a primary energy storage source.

Is there a "shelf life" on propane?
Some Gen-sets are combination NG/Propane, and I wondering if a additional orifices for methane could be calculated? (Less BTUs than NG and much less than propane)

Note: all those dollar store candles seem to be scented in some pretty stronge scents?????
Of course after a few days without a shower, maybe a good thing??????

[randyt]

what size is your well casing? if it is large enough a drop pipe can be dropped down and a well cylinder can be installed on the end. add some sucker rods and modify the well cap and add a hand pump and you're all set. if the well is shallow a shallow well pump can be added with a drop pipe and foot valve. it all depends what you have for a well.

as far as i know propane does not go bad. i've used some from tanks that are at least 15 years old. a fella need to keep a eye on the valves for leaking. i have seen a few valves start to leak. and the tanks can develop a leak too.

[Sourdough]

Propane will store for ever, or till the bottle rusts out..........

[Rick]

Keep them stored upright or they can leak.

[crashdive123]

As has been said - propane does not go bad (but containers sometimes do). I like the idea of a hand pump on the well. How deep is yours, and does anybody know the maximum depth that a hand pump can draw water from?

[Sourdough]

As has been said - propane does not go bad (but containers sometimes do). I like the idea of a hand pump on the well. How deep is yours, and does anybody know the maximum depth that a hand pump can draw water from?

You can only "PULL" water one atmosphere (33') Deeper you have to "PUSH" the water up.

[crashdive123]

Thanks Sourdough and sjj for the responses.

[randyt]

As has been said - propane does not go bad (but containers sometimes do). I like the idea of a hand pump on the well. How deep is yours, and does anybody know the maximum depth that a hand pump can draw water from?

using a deep well pump cylinder water can be pumped as deep as 300 t0 400 feet and maybe deeper. using a hand pump the deeper the well the smaller the drop pipe and cylinder needs to be. basically a cylinder is a check valve piston affair that hangs on the end of the drop pipe, a rod goes down the center of the drop pipe and ties into the pump. the pumping action takes place at the cylinder which is submerged in the water.

google bison pumps for more info. i like their set up, it's really nice but i don't like their price. i've been gathering up the goodies to make my own set up at a fraction of the cost.

[hunter63]

The well is 185 ft, 6" casing, w/submersible pump, I do believe that that drop bucket would work.
Thanks for the idea, will check it out!

Seems that they are on back order, so I guess I will jsut pull the cap next time out and see if there is room in the casing and see how it connects to the "bury tank" 6 ft under ground.

I do also have a "stock well", below the hill. 25'+/- sand point and hand pump, need leathers again, or swap out pump, (have a spare ready to go).

Water collection system and storage on shed, used for several years before the "real well/pump" was installed.
Also have 800' frontage on a river, so water isn't a real big problem.

I was just thinking out loud as far as fuel storage options, and am liking propane more and more.

[Rick]

You can convert your gasoline genny to propane as well.

[randyt]

The well is 185 ft, 6" casing, w/submersible pump, I do believe that that drop bucket would work.
Thanks for the idea, will check it out!

Seems that they are on back order, so I guess I will jsut pull the cap next time out and see if there is room in the casing and see how it connects to the "bury tank" 6 ft under ground.

I do also have a "stock well", below the hill. 25'+/- sand point and hand pump, need leathers again, or swap out pump, (have a spare ready to go).

Water collection system and storage on shed, used for several years before the "real well/pump" was installed.
Also have 800' frontage on a river, so water isn't a real big problem.

I was just thinking out loud as far as fuel storage options, and am liking propane more and more.

the challenge with the well with the submersible pump in order to use a well bucket the pump will need to be pulled in order for the well bucket to fit down the well. but a drop pipe with a cylinder can be dropped down the well along side the pitless adapter and into the draw down of the well. this way either one can be used at time same time. it don't sound like water is a problem though.

[hunter63]

No, water isn't a problem, I was just thinking of an option if needed.
I will look into a propane conversion for the genny (one of them).

Long term I was just thinking of a long term set up, and thought of the propane as the cylinders were very old and still still had usable propane.

Then along the same lines was possible methane conversion of a propane conversion. But then again you would need a good supply of po-op to make enough methane, which would require a good amount of animals, feed, water..........guess it's always something!

[finallyME]

You can only "PULL" water one atmosphere (33') Deeper you have to "PUSH" the water up.

Yeah, I remember that problem in school. Usually the problem sounds something like, "If Superman had a really long straw to suck water out of a lake, how long will the straw have to be when Superman can no longer suck up the water?".

[rebel]

I found these plans for a well bucket. A lot cheaper than fifty bucks. http://www.countrysidemag.com/issues..._Belanger.html

[hunter63]

I found these plans for a well bucket. A lot cheaper than fifty bucks. http://www.countrysidemag.com/issues..._Belanger.html

Thanks for the link, I was jusr thinking after seeing the link to buy one, "What the heck I can make one out of PVC and a foot valve".

Guess all great minds think alike...............