Arizona Immigration Law

[Justin Case]

Speaking of law....where's our "Legal Beagle"?

I'd like to hear what he has to say about this.

Last I heard he was going to "The Other House" (Thirston Howell accent)

[Pal334]

I am completely against it!!! I am for immigration law enforcement. This goes against our concept of freedom. Think about it. virtually none of us carrys proof of citizenship or immigration status. I agree all must have proof of identity available if there is a legitimate need for it. Giving local or State police this type of power (the right to demand proof of citizenship or immigration status "on the street") smacks of a Police State. If they have a reason to suspect a person of a crime, then there are investigative methods available to them to pursue the citizenship or immigration status of the detainee (strenghten and improve that existing system). I for one do not want this door opened. Just one mans opinion.

[Rick]

Let me get this straight. You want a white lawyer from Boston that owns two houses to add balance to a conversation about illegal aliens? Okaaaaay.

[Rick]

Oh, calm down there, Susie. There are no black boots in Arizona. Just a few good ole cowboys that want their state back.

[Pal334]

Oh, calm down there, Susie. There are no black boots in Arizona. Just a few good ole cowboys that want their state back.

My only concern is the herd mentality, if states see this passed and implimented, it can been done elsewhere

They can have it back without violating civil rights of innocent citizens. Just need to have current law enforced and properly use current laws and procedures . It takes a comitment from local, state and Federal agencies and organizations (I know , I have a polyanna view)

[Rick]

There's probably a lot of truth in that however. There are usually sufficient laws on the books, regardless of subject, to resolve an issue. The problem is often one of enforcement.

As I said to start with, I think they did it to bring attention to the issue, which they've succeeded in doing. Just my opinion.

[nell67]

Oh, calm down there, Susie. There are no black boots in Arizona. Just a few good ole cowboys that want their state back.

What about the Indians who want THEIR LAND back....?

[Rick]

You mean Indiana, Illinois, Florida, Kentucky, Tennessee, South and North Carolina, Virginia.............

[2dumb2kwit]

I am completely against it!!! I am for immigration law enforcement. This goes against our concept of freedom. Think about it. virtually none of us carrys proof of citizenship or immigration status. I agree all must have proof of identity available if there is a legitimate need for it. Giving local or State police this type of power (the right to demand proof of citizenship or immigration status "on the street") smacks of a Police State. If they have a reason to suspect a person of a crime, then there are investigative methods available to them to pursue the citizenship or immigration status of the detainee (strenghten and improve that existing system). I for one do not want this door opened. Just one mans opinion.

Pal, did you read the actual wording?

B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).

This is why I kinda wanted Kens input, but I don't see anything wrong with it.

[BENESSE]

Here's what just doesn't sit quite right with me:
They are not enforcing the laws they already have, perfectly good laws btw, but they go ahead and pass a new one...exactly why?!
The LE that's checking the immigration status of anyone they think looks Mexican can maybe spend their time better hanging around the borders.
Cause see, that's what the illegals have to cross to get in.

[2dumb2kwit]

What about the Indians who want THEIR LAND back....?

We've been through this, before. If they had had better imagration policies, they wouldn't have lost it, to start with. Think about it. Don't you think we should learn from history?

[2dumb2kwit]

Here's what just doesn't sit quite right with me:
They are not enforcing the laws they already have, perfectly good laws btw, but they go ahead and pass a new one...exactly why?!
The LE that's checking the immigration status of anyone they think looks Mexican can maybe spend their time better hanging around the borders.
Cause see, that's what the illegals have to cross to get in.

If I see something that walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, should I ignore it, and go to the pond, to be sure that no ducks get out of it?

[BENESSE]

We've been through this, before. If they had had better imagration policies, they wouldn't have lost it, to start with. Think about it. Don't you think we should learn from history?

You mean learn only when it's convenient?

[crashdive123]

Here's what just doesn't sit quite right with me:
They are not enforcing the laws they already have, perfectly good laws btw, but they go ahead and pass a new one...exactly why?!
The LE that's checking the immigration status of anyone they think looks Mexican can maybe spend their time better hanging around the borders.
Cause see, that's what the illegals have to cross to get in.

I agree again with you that we have laws that are not being enforced. That being said, under existing law (here's where Ken's input would be good), unless local LE has received federal immigration training (as Sheriff Arpaio's employees did) they cannot enforce existing immigration laws. Crazy huh? With the new law that was passed, it gives the local law enforcement the authority to do what the feds refuse to do.

[2dumb2kwit]

I agree again with you that we have laws that are not being enforced. That being said, under existing law (here's where Ken's input would be good), unless local LE has received federal immigration training (as Sheriff Arpaio's employees did) they cannot enforce existing immigration laws. Crazy huh? With the new law that was passed, it gives the local law enforcement the authority to do what the feds refuse to do.

A law like that also helps avoid stupid policies , like this.

While Ramos had already been convicted of a DUI, Virginia Beach policy, at the time, dictated that an illegal alien be convicted of three DUIs before police would report them to federal immigration authorities.

[2dumb2kwit]

You mean learn only when it's convenient?

I don't get it.
What was done to the indians was wrong.
What was done to the slaves was wrong.
I can't un-do either, but we can all learn from it.

Am I a bad person, for thinking like this?

[Batch]

So. the problem is that the state needs to enforce existing immigration laws. This can be done without adding further laws such as requiring ID.

[Batch]

In case you didnt know, the IRS doesent check social security numbers. My father owns a landscaping bussiness and most of his employees are illegals. All he is required by law to do is to ask for a social security number. He probably wouldnt get in trouble because he asked for a social security number. What more proof can you really ask for? The social security numbers are fake, usually generated from ones that dont exist. He files taxes on their wages based on those social security numbers. You would think that it would send off some kind of error message in the system right? Well, it doesent. If all of the illegals who had their employers filing taxes were suddenly unable to pay taxes, then the government would lose out on a ton of money.

That's the great thing about the IRS is they don't care where the money comes from. Your father must know that his employees are illegal or he wouldn't have been able to tell you that they were fake. He is part of the problem and sells his country out for a few bucks saved in cheaper labor. He is a criminal and I can't bring myself to sugar coat that.

I hope for his sake he never complains about ANYTHING in this country.

[nell67]

You mean Indiana, Illinois, Florida, Kentucky, Tennessee, South and North Carolina, Virginia.............

What,you don't think Indians inhabited anything west of Illinois????

[Pal334]

This is the main point I dont like:

B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).



Can be interprted to mean that their "lawful purpose" is to investigate the "status"of the detainee as the primary cause that personis stopped. The rest of the proposed "law" seems to mirror existing law and procedure. So why would a new one be needed?