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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    Batch - There were a number of things that instigated the American Revolution but the primary impetus was taxation without representation. In fact, it originally began because the thirteen colonies were being governed without representation. Officially, the Revolutionary era started in 1763. The taxation laws were only considered wrong because the American colonies lacked representation in the House of Parliament. It wasn't the refusal to pay taxes but to pay taxes without elected representation, which was seen as a violation of the rights of an Englishman. The founding fathers still considered themselves Englishmen under the law.
    Rick, I was referring to actions that would be called treasonous or terrorists and how the possession of arms and forming of militias was necessary to our forefathers liberty from perceived tyranny.

    I didn't get into the argument of whether or not we were entitled to protections under the English Bill of Rights because I was trying to illustrate how arms and militias played a role in overthrowing the government and not defending it in the American Revolution and how many of our forefathers felt that we must remember that purpose should the need arise again.

    Most did not even want a standing army as it could be used against the free people to support and for the purposes of tyranny. One of the many reasons I don't care for Hamilton!


    But, my point is that it was people who wanted bloody revolution and those with calmer heads that came together to shape our history. It will be the same in the future.


  2. #62

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    We all know that B i g b r o t h e r will try to stop anyone that stands for the Constitution and not fall for their games. Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see. Remember Ruby Ridge.
    Semper Fi

  3. #63
    Senior Member Wise Old Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    It just proves that fanatical Muslims aren't the only folks we need to worry about. I guess they threatened Muslims and that's what got the plugged pulled on them. Just what I've read.

    I'm all for protecting my turf but there has to be a line you don't cross. The truly scary part to me is there is a lot of "stuff" going on right now and it ranges all across the board. From tea parties to militia. It's clear Americans are tired of today's America and want their country back. At least that's the way it looks to me.
    I would love to see the government put bugs into their websites.
    “There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag … We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language … and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”

    Theodore Roosevelt 1907

  4. #64
    Hall Monitor Pal334's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sthrnstrong View Post
    We all know that B i g b r o t h e r will try to stop anyone that stands for the Constitution and not fall for their games. Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see. Remember Ruby Ridge.
    Mmm,, are you saying that this trash was attempting to stand for the Constitution by plotting the assination of a Police Officer and then the cold blooded murder of Police who would attend the funeral?
    I would also be interested in one example of your claim about "big brother". And "Ruby Ridge" is a weak example at best
    .45 ACP Because shooting twice is silly... The avatar says it all,.45 because there isn't a.46

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  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pal334 View Post
    Mmm,, are you saying that this trash was attempting to stand for the Constitution by plotting the assination of a Police Officer and then the cold blooded murder of Police who would attend the funeral?
    I would also be interested in one example of your claim about "big brother". And "Ruby Ridge" is a weak example at best
    I didn't mention anything about the group called Hutaree. Personally I think they are a bunch of crazy cracked out christians.I said nothing about their plan or motives Do Not put words in my mouth.

    Also, the main point of my comment is believe nothing of what you hear and half of what you see.

    The mark on Ruby Ridge is that the media blew it out of scale with made up lies to make officers seem innocent (there are good and bad ones). Do some research on it (think out of the box). They shot a innocent 14 yr old boy (shot in the back btw) and a mother feeding her child while standing at a window. The orders where to fire on any MAN bearing arms. I'm damn sure a sniper can tell a woman from a man and a baby from a rifle from a 100yrds.
    Semper Fi

  6. #66
    Hall Monitor Pal334's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sthrnstrong View Post
    I didn't mention anything about the group called Hutaree. Personally I think they are a bunch of crazy cracked out christians.I said nothing about their plan or motives

    Also, the main point of my comment is believe nothing of what you hear and half of what you see.

    The mark on Ruby Ridge is that the media blew it out of scale with made up lies to make officers seem innocent (there are good and bad ones). Do some research on it (think out of the box). They shot a innocent 14 yr old boy (shot in the back btw) and a mother feeding her child while standing at a window. The orders where to fire on any MAN bearing arms. I'm damn sure a sniper can tell a woman from a man and a baby from a rifle from a 100yrds.

    "Do Not put words in my mouth." I actually said;"Mmm,, are you saying"

    I don't agree with your allegation about the occurance at Ruby Ridge. Obviously there was a tragic mistake made.

    The statement "The orders where to fire on any MAN bearing arms." is sensationalism and silly at best. But I do understand that people with out knowledge or experience would buy into news accounts that suit their agenda.

    It would appear that we will not come to a common conclusion on this
    .45 ACP Because shooting twice is silly... The avatar says it all,.45 because there isn't a.46

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  7. #67

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    Well I will agree on the tragic mistake part. The comment on Man bearing arms was actually taken from a FED on a interview. Also would really like to know your full meaning on the knowledge and experience. No never was a fed, your right. You have taken this whole conversation too personal. My original comment was about the media and nothing else.
    I do apologize on the part of "Mmm, are you saying"
    Semper Fi

  8. #68
    Hall Monitor Pal334's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sthrnstrong View Post
    Well I will agree on the tragic mistake part. The comment on Man bearing arms was actually taken from a FED on a interview. Also would really like to know your full meaning on the knowledge and experience. No never was a fed, your right. You have taken this whole conversation too personal. My original comment was about the media and nothing else.
    I do apologize on the part of "Mmm, are you saying"
    That FED was also discredited during the investigation. Not taking it personally. And was not meaning anything personal in my comments. Just trying to in my own little way to interject reality when historical events are being discussed. It is so easy for folks to take inaccuracies on the internet and take them for reality.
    .45 ACP Because shooting twice is silly... The avatar says it all,.45 because there isn't a.46

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  9. #69

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    Come to find out one of the nine is a Fed agent

  10. #70
    Hall Monitor Pal334's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripwire View Post
    Come to find out one of the nine is a Fed agent
    What do you base that on? Just looking for a reference, since I have not seen it
    Last edited by Pal334; 03-31-2010 at 11:00 AM. Reason: last sentence
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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripwire View Post
    Come to find out one of the nine is a Fed agent
    I found a reference . I say that is good, keeps that type of slime on their toes, keep them busy sorting friend from foe

    "An undercover agent was part of the federal investigation of a Michigan-based Christian militia group that allegedly planned to spark an uprising against the government by killing police officers, court documents show."

    It is an excerpt from a Wall Street journal article:

    http://www.thetreeofliberty.com/vb/s...ad.php?t=98168
    .45 ACP Because shooting twice is silly... The avatar says it all,.45 because there isn't a.46

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  12. #72
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    "Hi, I'm Cory. Can I join your group?"
    "Man, you sure have a DI haircut."
    "Yeah and a cool suit and shades. I'll bet those set you back a buck or two."
    "It's my Sunday clothes."
    "You a cop?"
    "Why, uh, me?, well, you know, define cop."
    "Enough of the questions boys. Glad you're joining us, Cory. Say, what do you keep talkin' into your fist?"

  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pal334 View Post
    That FED was also discredited during the investigation. Not taking it personally. And was not meaning anything personal in my comments. Just trying to in my own little way to interject reality when historical events are being discussed. It is so easy for folks to take inaccuracies on the internet and take them for reality.
    Seems in everything there are three sides to any story. His story, their story, and the truth.
    Semper Fi

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by sthrnstrong View Post
    Seems in everything there are three sides to any story. His story, their story, and the truth.
    I am comfortable that :his story and the truth are the most accurate and "their story" will be the stuff of fables, I always found that when the rats are run to ground they are most entertaining.

    I guess I do sound cynical, after shoveling that type of sewage for so many years it seems natural
    .45 ACP Because shooting twice is silly... The avatar says it all,.45 because there isn't a.46

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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    "Hi, I'm Cory. Can I join your group?"
    "Man, you sure have a DI haircut."
    "Yeah and a cool suit and shades. I'll bet those set you back a buck or two."
    "It's my Sunday clothes."
    "You a cop?"
    "Why, uh, me?, well, you know, define cop."
    "Enough of the questions boys. Glad you're joining us, Cory. Say, what do you keep talkin' into your fist?"
    You should have seen "back in the day". Dark suit (preferably dark blue), white shirt, solid color tie (no patterns allowed), GI haircut and shiny shoes. I was a maverick though I always had a GI cut moustache. I could blend in anywhere
    .45 ACP Because shooting twice is silly... The avatar says it all,.45 because there isn't a.46

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTs6a...eature=related

  16. #76
    Lumpy chair made me do it oly's Avatar
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    I am confused of this. If the public can access a forum or group of a potential hostel group? Why is it a problem for the FBI to monitor a public forum or hostel group when its what there paid for to protect the public in the first place?
    A mouse ate a hole in my lumpy chair.

  17. #77
    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oly View Post
    I am confused of this. If the public can access a forum or group of a potential hostel group? Why is it a problem for the FBI to monitor a public forum or hostel group when its what there paid for to protect the public in the first place?
    It's not, but words on a forum, while causing more scrutiny - are not evidence of a crime.
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  18. #78
    Lumpy chair made me do it oly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashdive123 View Post
    It's not, but words on a forum, while causing more scrutiny - are not evidence of a crime.
    Thats true and thanks.
    I don't always believe in the news.
    A mouse ate a hole in my lumpy chair.

  19. #79
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Oly, I think that if you belong to any subversive group you should expect as part of the deal that some policing organization is also part of your group. At the very least they are trying to be a part of it once you place yourself on the radar screen. It's just part of the intelligence gather apparatus and we're lucky to have men and women will to do such dangerous stuff. Just my .01 ( only a penny now because of inflation).

  20. #80
    Senior Member Pict's Avatar
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    These people are going to get their day in court and we all get to see what evidence the government has and where they got it.

    Some facts...

    1. They are innocent until proven guilty according to the law.

    2. They are guilty right-wing Christian nutcases according to the left leaning press because that stirs up controversy and sells ad space.

    3. The true concept of the militia is the body of the people armed and willing to defend what they hold in common, not a small band of people armed to defend or propagate what they hold in particular. Look at the stated aims of this group according to their own website, to fight the minions of the anti-Christ. This in no way shape or form is the unorganized militia according to the Constitution, they are an armed faction with their own agenda not an expression of "We the People".

    4. The true unorganized militia numbers in the multiple millions and would be impossible to suppress. The various "militia groups" number in the few hundreds to thousands and will ALWAYS be the objects of scrutiny by law enforcement because some of them really are nutcases. This is a legitimate function of law enforcement and you really do want it that way.

    5. There are legal and non-violent channels to petition the government for redress of grievances that are still open to the people. Over-reaching by the Federal power is countered by the power of the States or the courts. The people have the power to vote over-reaching federal representatives out of office.

    6. If the actual unorganized militia ever does rush to arms you won't have to wonder if it is happening or which side you are on. Take a look at the rest of the world for examples of things that would cause this. Has the federal government dissolved a state legislature? Has the Executive branch dismissed Congress or the Supreme Court? Has someone been declared president for life, declared martial law, and abolished the vote? That is the stuff true historic rebellions are made of, not the passage of unpopular legislation, get real.

    7. This current situation is not a government sweep of the left rounding up the right. It is a case against a very tiny group of people for which the government thinks it has a case. Give it a few months.

    Mac
    Last edited by Pict; 04-01-2010 at 08:00 AM.
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