The borrowing mentality and me being a jerk

[Ken]

I Loaned a guy My ex wife one time and the dirty SOB brought her back

He can have my ex. I don't think her current husband's all that happy with her.

[canid]

This was a huge thing in my family when I was growing up--learned the hard way.
You absolutely do not lend tools or anything mechanical or electrical. Give it away before you lend it away.
Same with us now, although in NYC no one asks. And we would rather spend the money or do without before we asked anyone for anything.

We do however have some spare/lesser quality tools that in a pinch we could "lend" but would never expect to get back.

life lesson:

if you have integrity, borrow means borrow, inflexibly. borrow means return in the same condition recieved. lending however still means never gonna see it again, or not going to see it in working order.

i don't often lend anything i expect to have back, or to have back soon. there are a few exceptions, and in fact, i have a friend who keeps lending me things just to get rid of them [this notebook computer for example].

[BENESSE]

It's all about the lack of respect for other people's property and it usually extends to public property as well. You see it everywhere and from people you might not expect.
I am always amazed to see well dressed, seemingly "cultivated" people spit on the street, litter or not pick up after their dog. I feel compelled to say something but end up just glaring and shaking my head. Mr. B doesn't believe in getting involved and maybe he has a point on this score.

[crashdive123]

I've borrowed a few things (not very much) over the years. I've always returned them in a timely manner. Whenever I'm asked to loan something out by a friend - I don't even hesitate. Never been burned yet - at least not that I remember.

[Rick]

I have one neighbor....one....that we borrow from each other. We both have a rule. Take it back in better shape that you borrowed it. That means clean, full of gas, empty bag, whatever. The rest of the buggers can, well, bugger off.

I called another neighbor one day and said you know that chainsaw you loaned out? Well, he's running 10W30 in the gas. The guys back yard looked like he was laying down a smoke screen for concealment. My neighbor went running over there and took his chainsaw back. So what's mister chemist do? He comes over to my house.

"Do you have a chainsaw"?
"No."
"Sure you do. It sitting right there."
"No it's not."
"Look. It's right there."
"That's not a chainsaw."
"Well what is it."
"Whatever I say it is 'cause it's mine."

He never asked again.

Even family will borrow from you and forget where they got it if you let them. Neither a borrower now a lender be.

[DOGMAN]

I understand your postition, but you just better hope you never need any help. If your going to play the role of self-sufficent, you gotta do it all the time. Not just when it works for you. Community is all about helping one another out. You can borrow stuff and loan stuff out successfully if you have a few guidelines that you make people adhere to.

I borrow and loan stuff all the time. I have a basic rule- "you break it- you buy it"- I always tell people that before they borrow something. I hold people to it. I also tell people when I expect borrowed stuff back, and I usually say what sort of improvement I expect on the item. I want stuff back in better condition than I loaned it out in.

Example: "sure, you can borrow it, but I need it back by Saturday because I need it then. Also, make sure you sharpen it" ... If its not back by Friday night- I start calling. When I get it back, I inspect it instantly, while having a casual conversation, and if something isn't right I tell them about it right there on the spot, and I give them the chance to make it right immedialty. If they don't- they know not to ask to borrow stuff again- because they broke the code. You don't have to be a victim, you can participate in a borrow/loan society but you have to have rules, or you'll get taken advantage of.

Another thing I like to do when loaning stuff out is ask for something in return. example: "sure you can borrow my chainsaw, come over and get it, and will you cut down that tree at the end of my driveway with it? just cut it into sections for me....don't worry about loading it up though- I'll do that....if I can use your trailer"

Soon you'll weed out the users from borrowing from you, but you'll still be able to use them- when you need them (because you never turned them down)...but, most importantly you'll have created a support community that can help you when you don't have something that you might need just for a day.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

Just ask what he is going to do for you? Then you are in good bargaining position because he has already established his need which is certainly greater than you need to loan it out. That way no one is beholding to the other.

[Ken]

When my kids were smaller, we had one of them tower-swing-slide-rope ladder-bridge-sandbox playground sets in the backyard. If I hadn't wrapped a couple of sections around, it would have been 'bout 75' long.

Anyway, the kids next door would come over and play on the thing everyday. No problem.

One day, they had a small pool installed. Wouldn't let my kids come over to use their pool because they were concerned about liability. No problem.

Two weeks later, we had a really big pool installed. Along with a fence to keep the next door neighbors' kids out. Also sent 'em a certified letter informing them their kids weren't allowed in my pool, on the playground set, or even in my yard because of liability concerns. They got the message.

[Sarge47]

I don't loan out anything. If anyone asks I say "No!"

"Well that's not very nice!"

(shrug) "Neither is ripping somebody's arm off & beating them to death with it!"

"Hey! I've never done that!"

"I wasn't talking about you!"

Seriously, I only loan out what I can afford to lose...which is nothing.

[Mountaintrekker]

Some very good points made.
Jason Montana- I'm a pretty generous soul, as I have lent things out in the recent past and I will help anyone in a time of need. That being said... some people just don't get the point and I'm afraid I'm going to have to sound like a jerk to get my point across to them. So be it. This is mine and if I choose to lend it to you there are conditions! I hear ya though.

Something noone has touched on yet is the (not letting people know what you have so in a time of crisis everyone doesn't come to you) part of this thread. I'm just curious as to you thoughts on that portion.

[rwc1969]

I read somewhere that a man should not ask to borrow another's axe, and was told that you should treat another's as it were your own. I kinda feel the same way.

i have borrowed, but don't like it and I've lent and didn't like that either.

Everytime I got my hot wheels back the wheels were all bent. Lent out my tent and it came back all moldy. If I'd a lent out my car I'm sure I'da been pulled over weeks later for armed robbery and hit and run. Every time I borrowed something I worried it would somehow get damaged or I wouldn't be able to return it for reasons beyond my control.

I try to trust folks and give the benefit of doubt, but after so many times you gotta start wondering if it's trust or just plain ignorance.

[DOGMAN]

Mtrekker, I fully understand your position. Some people even if you give them conditions on borrowing something still end up burning you and taking advantage. they are just dead beats and not real friends anyway.

When I was in college, then leading the life of a nomad after school, I never loaned anything out, because I wasn't really sure who was worthy or who was my friend. People in that era of my life, were just too transient and I didn't have a long term sense of community with those folks, so I was very protective of my stuff, and rather hush, hush about what I had. But, now I am part of a community with roots, and long-term neighbors and relationships, so I fill the need to borrow and loan stuff. I think your position of being new in an area, is sort of like where I was 15 years ago with the people I interacted with...I just never knew if a situation would ever be reciprcopal, or if i would ever see the person to get my stuff back again.

On a lighter note...
I am thinking about starting to act like the gypsies in the movie "Snatch"...anytime someone wants to borrow something, I send them home with a dog, as well as, a chainsaw that needs repair.

[canid]

ripping somebody's arm off & beating them to death with it!"

that just came up on tv less than 60 seconds before i read this.

[DOGMAN]

Something noone has touched on yet is the (not letting people know what you have so in a time of crisis everyone doesn't come to you) part of this thread. I'm just curious as to you thoughts on that portion.

For me, and the community of people I am involved in, I am very open about what I have, so are my friends. I have the sterotypical Native American take on "ownership" and "private property" when it comes to my stuff. I am more than willing to share everything I have, because when I run-out I am going to need someone to share with me. Fortunatly, I live in a sparsley populated area, and I have many friends that feel the same way. We wouldn't be bombarded with masses of unprepared folks, we would all have something to add to the survival of one another.

That being said, i've never told anyone what all I have in the pantry, or how much cash and ammo I have (not much of either)...but I would be willing to share if called upon

[Batch]

Some people you can loan to and others you can not.

I've had a guy borrow a metal step ladder and he must of used it as a saw horse for a circular saw. He snuck over and put it back with out saying any thing. Next time I saw him he asked to borrow something else. I told not a chance. He looked surprised and asked me why. I told him because you F$%^ed up my ladder and thin didn't even say anything to me. He looked like a kid that gets caught lying. But, he never offered to fix it or even apologize for messing it up.

My father is a great borrower. He'll borrow something and later when you ask him for it back he'll tell you he either never borrowed it or that it is his and he bought it. Really when did you buy it? A long time ago, I have always had it. Where did you buy it? I don't remember it was a long time ago.

He misplaces his tent pegs. Yours disappear next camping trip.

This archery season he and my brother lay their stands side by side. My brother is inside with me and we go back outside and look at the stand. There is no wing nut on the stabilizer bar. It is very obvious that it was just on there because of the thin layer of recently disturbed rust powder. My brother had also checked the stand when he drug it out of the shed.

My dad insist he didn't take it and went into a speal about how he always makes sure he puts his wing nut back on every time he takes his stand down.

My brother and I go back with my dad to retrieve his stand way back in some god forsaken spot in the swamp where even swamp critters would be smart enough not to venture.

There as we watch him remove that same wing nut and drop it into the swamp never to be seen again. We speculated that our newly replaced wing nut didn't stand much of a chance of making it to next season.

[Winnie]

There's a saying over here, you probably have it too. Neither a borrower or lender be. If I need something I buy it. If someones else wants to borrow it, they go buy one of their own. Simple.

[hunter63]

I guess that in the past I have "given away" more stuff than I lent out.
When some one asks, and it does depend on who it is, I do lend certain stuff out, mostly not the top of the line, and really don't expect it back.

I have borrowed stuff, ONCE, if I need it more than that, I buy my own.

MT I do feel your pain, seems that there are some people that will take advantage of you any chance they get.
Then again there are a lot of people that will show you how good people CAN be.

The part that bothers me is when some feel they are entitled to your stuff, seems that this is where your having a problem, and you don't want to be a jerk.
I have actually had friends tell others that "No I don't need one of those, I can borrow one any time I want, for FREE".
Sorry PAL, not any more.
Called my "One strike rule"

Had a V.P. at the plant in another life time.
He had gotten a divorce, wife left him, turned into the swinging bachelor, traded off his Mini van, for a Camaro.
Well, got a girl friend, wanted to be a big shot and impress her at her house.

So one day at the plant, he asked me up to his office....I'm wondering whats up now?
Says, "Hey I see we must be paying you pretty good, I see you are driving a new pick up?"
So, I said, "yeah, it was a deal at the end of the model year, Why?"

He says he needs a truck, for just a couple of minutes to haul some timbers for his girl friends yard, and all he had was his swinger mobile.
So, I agreed, for just a couple of minutes,...... he picked it up that evening, and was gone about 4 hours. (didn't leave me his Camaro, either)

So when I got it back, the bed was covered with wood chips, sawdust, dirt etc and was down 1/2 half a tank of gas.
OK, shame on me.

Next evening, girl friend pulls up, dropped him off and leaves......Comes to the door, and says "I here to pick up "THE" truck again"......Thought that was pretty nervy.
So I said, "Well, PAL, it's not the truck, it's my truck, you can't use it again, you didn't put gas in and left it dirty. besides, I have to go some where".

Walked out the door, locked it, got in the truck and drove away.
Heard later that he had to walk home as he didn't have his cell.

So now I'm fully expected a bad time at work, him being a big shot and all.
As it turned out, nothing was ever said.......Learned a lesson?.....probably not, other than I not to be trifled with more than once.

[tipacanoe]

When I was still working with the tools at the shipyard, I would let anyone borrow something from my tool box, which in many cases I ended up replacing, after getting burned many times, I put a book in my box and had the mechanic sign for it before it was borrowed, that worked pretty well, but then many times I would have to go see who borrowed to get the tool back, that started the locked tool box.