Poco, others do see it. They are just too greedy, foolish, powerless, and/ or set in their ways to change. Even our science proves what the aboriginal people and religions of the world always believed without needing proof.
We require proof, but when the proof is evident we deny it. And it is our children who will pay for our sins and foolishness.
kjhg After reading the posts that you do have here in the forums, they all seem to be simple smart aleck comments. Just curious as to why you are here if you don't(apparently) like the things we talk about? If you have a counter point to make then by all means do so.
Because a survival situation carries an aura of timelessness, a survivor cannot allow himself to be overcome by it's duration or quality. A survivor accepts the situation as it is and improves it from that standpoint. Prologue from Outdoor Survival Skills by Larry Dean Olsen
I also seemed to have missed an Introduction.
kjhg was a spammer out of Pakistan. I know he took a lot of time to register, write up a nice profile, make six posts that made no sense at all, add a signature with links that you wouldn't want to see..........I guess I should feel bad that after all that work it took three clicks of a mouse to practice my "leave no trace" techniques when it comes to spammers.
Future is Past
Native American quotes are unmeasurably wise, it's idiotic that the europeans ignore them. Sooner or later civilization will collapse, because it's parasitic. A town is a parasitic ecosystem, it is unable to make food but it does gather food from other ecosystems and returns nothing but waste.
A native american quote: A man's heart away from nature is hard. We all are destined to live like animals. The whole humanity can't live as animals, because if civilization collapsed some would try to rebuild it and some won't.
The civilization in the tropics most of it, can't be called a civilization, there are many people in poverty, scarcity, unemployment, depending on money. They are tricked by europeans, who make hungry africans into bigger debts, into going school that is not necessary, because when they finish school there's nothing there to continue, so they go to europe or usa and become highely educated and civilized. If they would not be pressure of europeans on them, they could live as tribesmans or animals. The civilization there is just attained and not functional.
Humans act in civilization like that the nature should adapt to humans, instead of the human adapt to nature. This is why civilization is anti natural. The humans should not make ways to decrease pollution, but they should completely not pollute the nature. Because we can't all go back to the animal life but maybe zeitgeist's venus project may be a alternative to balance our nature. But this is still utopian today, probably in future it may work. Only a gargantuan catastrophy that wipes 70% of human population may return humans to animal life. Those who live in cities most of them can't survive and would die. People who live in tribes and villages would live. I don't think civilization will be endless, it may collapse someday. Im sure that in future there won't be robot rule, galaxy conquest, futurizing, this kind of sci-fi. It is more utopian that we will live in future futuristic than that we live in future animalistic. We have tortured plants and animals, polluted air and water, kill 1 specie every day urbanising remote islands, what do you expect futuristic from our poor planet? Nature is a dictatorship, so we can't be trapped in civilization forever, we don't have to be extinct, we will evolve as other animals and return to our past life.
I sure wish you'd tell us your age or at least an age range. I think you miss the point of civilization. Your idealistic views are common from someone that is still young. As you grow older and, I hope, wiser, you'll see things much differently.
Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.
Interesting theories you pursue.I assume you are referring to this......
http://www.thevenusproject.com/
Thanks, but no thanks. It sounds like it is giving over total control of human life to a privileged few, from the little I read.
Because a survival situation carries an aura of timelessness, a survivor cannot allow himself to be overcome by it's duration or quality. A survivor accepts the situation as it is and improves it from that standpoint. Prologue from Outdoor Survival Skills by Larry Dean Olsen
Looks like a visual nightmare.
Psst. B. The Catphone is ringing!!!!
Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.
It usually is, Rick.
Back when man was perfectly in tune with nature he had to be fast......very fast.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
Sometimes taking a nap at the wrong time would get you in hot water, too.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
Even if you managed to whack a slow turtle there was always someone waiting to take your turtle soup.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
That's the reason civilization was invented.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
Now, even the animals are envious
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
The end.
Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.
As a new guy here I'll tread lightly (for a while) - This thread reminds me of something Tom Berger wrote in his book 'Little Big Man'.."Bein' a barbarian is just fine, so long as you don't know anything else."
Sometimes I think we need to remember that, no matter what age or era they were living in, people have always thought of their era as 'modern times'.
RevGeo
wow, really? Considering modern means pertaining to current, present, or recent time, obviously the inhabitants of ever era refered to their time as modern times. In fact, I would be willing to bet that in 100,000 years from now, the inhabitants of earth would refer to their time as modern times too.
That quote has more meaning in the sense that primitive people didn't know they were primitive. The first people to use stone arrow heads were highly advanced in their time, but nothing compared to other ages. However, that was fine since they did not know any better. That statement actually has a lot of meaning in modern society too, but I won't go into that.
The premise of this thread's problem, as pointed out so elegantly by Rick, is that people perceive this in tune with nature thing as something magical. Well, there are a lot of issues overlooked. The grass is not greener if you want a cliche.
However, I will agree that mankind as a whole needs to find a balance.
The premise of the OP was that we have been in balance in the past and asks how far back we will have to go now to find that balance again. Nature will ultimately decide in ways too horrific for many to acknowledge. It seems we lack the forsight to prioritize future need over immediate gradification so the decision will not be made by us.Originally Posted by JPGreco
Perfect: I think I just found a new signature line. Tried to send ya some rep, but I have to spread the love.
Last edited by Sourdough; 03-16-2011 at 03:16 PM.
Oh, I know what the OP meant. What I am curious about is the definition of balance. In what era were we in balance with nature?
There are theories of ancient man hunting animals to extinction. That's not much of a balance if you ask me. It seems that the genus homo has long since been out of balance, which would include the last 50k years or so to the last ice age.
This is the definition of sustainabilty I hoped would be the boundaries of this discussion that we may find our way. Yes it is hopeless.
"The history of sustainability traces human-dominated ecological systems from the earliest civilizations to the present. This history is characterized by the increased regional success of a particular society, followed by crises that were either resolved, producing sustainability, or not, leading to decline."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sustainability
Will we return to this life?
No. Nothing is ever as it was.
A couple of thoughts in response to the posed and reposed question.
Paved roads are I believe the tipping point where civilization begins to go to far. Agriculture, small scale industry, small scale trade, a form of trade currency, formation of confederations of people with similar values and belief systems...these all bear risks of abuse but the point where the scales begin to tip out of balance is advanced transportation. To AK's point of the railroad spelling the begin of the natives decline.
Perks of civilization. Yes, they are great and we would probably all of us to one degree or another miss them if they were gone. But, what do they gain us as people and what are the costs? The simpler the life style, the more primitive, the more 'love' there is. And what is life without love? We speak of greater life expectancys today, but the cost is a lifetime in servitude. Computers, this forum, entertainment, imported foods, all these things bear a terrible price upon humankind.
Ideas. Once an idea is brought upon the human conscious it is extremely difficult to eradicate. The wheel for example, once conceptualized and brought into common use can not be forgotten without the virtual eradication of all written and pictoral medium and the near simultaneous death of everyone old enough to have ever seen or heard of it. Knowledge has advanced so far that even in the most serious and long lasting disaster or collapse of civilization many of these ideas would remain SOMEWHERE and be brought back into use in relatively short order. Obviously many things would not be able to be recreated because of the advanced materials procurement technologys and precision manufacturing processes and if the collapse was long enough would indeed gradually fade from the human consciousness but again the circumstances that would bring this about would have to be dire beyond imagining.
Hope. I am afraid that I can see no hope for mankinds future in the long term. The worldwide valuation of 'things' has brought us into a state of global 'wage slavery' and only an unimagnable and sustained calamity would bring us out of it. But, my hope lies in God because He has promised a better tomorrow though I will likely never live to see it. At least I can have Faith that someday the world and mankind will be 'rebalanced'.
Editors may have to delete out some of that last bit, I may have gotten to close to the line. Do what you must and I wll bear no grudges. ;0
Transportation is indeed major consideration. Good post.
MidWest - While I don't share your bleak outlook on our future, IMO your post was fine. No editing needed.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks