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Thread: Will we return to this life?

  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post
    Here's the way I see it. The advances made by mankind - agriculture, science, manufacturing - are all good. The fact is, we have abused the process and the product.

    We have poisoned much of the earth in the process, and we, mankind as a whole, have abused our capacity to produce and to consume, resulting in the over-population of this planet to a point of no return so far as sustainability or available resources go.

    Given circumstances as they are, the worlds population will continue to grow exponentially. It's like we've built this great boat, and we just keep piling people aboard unaware of the fact that it will eventually sink or capsize. Nothing short of a cataclysmic event or a world-wide pandemic or famine will correct this situation. Period.
    or...no sex for the entire planet for 40 years.


  2. #42
    Neo-Numptie DOGMAN's Avatar
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    Ken, although I agree with what your saying in reality.
    Philosphically though...how was the development of agriculture good? In fact how can we even call it an advancement.
    The way of the canoe is the way of the wilderness and of a freedom almost forgotten- Sigurd Olson

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  3. #43
    Quality Control Director Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskan Survivalist View Post
    or...no sex for the entire planet for 40 years.
    I've thought about the effect of "skipping" one or two generations. What I fear is.........

    A large percentage of babies born with birth defects to older parents.

    A population incapable of performing the necessary jobs to sustain the rest, since most people are truly most productive between their 20's and 60's.

    A huge population of seniors without any available medical care.

    A complete lack of teachers - in or out of the classroom - to pass on knowledge and skills.

    And that's just a short list.
    Last edited by Ken; 07-07-2010 at 11:58 AM. Reason: spelling
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  4. #44
    Quality Control Director Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOGMAN View Post
    Ken, although I agree with what your saying in reality.
    Philosphically though...how was the development of agriculture good? In fact how can we even call it an advancement.
    Without agriculture, most of our time would be devoted to hunting and gathering, leaving little or no time for manufacturing, science, commerce, the arts, etc. I, for one, enjoy driving a car, buying my ammunition, stopping for ice cream, and posting to this forum. I don't think any of these options would have come about without agriculture having come first.
    “Learning is not compulsory. Neither is survival.”
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    "Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils."
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  5. #45
    Neo-Numptie DOGMAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post
    Without agriculture, most of our time would be devoted to hunting and gathering
    Actually, Anthropological research states that hunters and gatherers enjoy more free time than any other type of culture. Agriculture societies have very little free time compated to H&G's
    The way of the canoe is the way of the wilderness and of a freedom almost forgotten- Sigurd Olson

    Give me winter, give me dogs... you can keep the rest- Knud Rasmussen

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post
    Without agriculture, most of our time would be devoted to hunting and gathering, leaving little or no time for manufacturing, science, commerce, the arts, etc. I, for one, enjoy driving a car, buying my ammunition, stopping for ice cream, and posting to this forum. I don't think any of these options would have come about without agriculture having come first.
    It really does not take that much time. One moose will feed you a long time and fish is even easier. One thing I like about the bush is all the time I have to progress. Like you I like the trappings of civilization but contrary to how most would think my ups and downs in life came from that. I do good out of town and build up land and then some day someone comes along and offers me more money than I can refuse and I take the money and go bezerk in the city, Blow all my money and then return to woods and start all over again. There are just too many temptations there. I've gotten older and don't know if I can do it over again, not as easy anyway, this is what's keeping me on the straight and narrow. I'm learning restraint but with gold at over a thousand an ounce the temptation is great. I have no problem making money, it's keeping it.
    Last edited by Alaskan Survivalist; 07-07-2010 at 12:47 PM.

  7. #47
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    But I think you guys are thinking on a personal level. Killing a moose is fine as a hunter gatherer. You can feed yourself and your clan. What do you do for greens or clothing or steel or any of the other items that you WANT to have because it will make your life easier. You'll turn to someone that is not a hunter gatherer. Someone that has specialized in some other trade. Native Americans did the same thing. Great trading settlements are dotted throughout the country where they exchanged pelts and shells and pottery and tools of all kinds.

    Life is about the greatest good for the most people. You may not feel that way but I think it's selfish not to. I want others to thrive. Agriculture was a way to do that. It allowed specialization within communities and still does. A Jack-of-all-trades doesn't do a lot of things well even if he can do a lot of things. Specializing in one thing allows the craftsman to fine turn his skill. A farmer is nothing less than a craftsman of food.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    Life is about the greatest good for the most people.
    Since when?

  9. #49
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    Seriously? You think it's every man for himself? From earliest times we banned together for protection and to share resources. We send aid all over the world today because of tsunamis or earthquakes. I think someone just spent some time helping a brother-in-law? We're all in this together. Our wives make certain of it.

    Dogman, since you brought up anthropologists let me quote from a little known study. Hunter gatherers often had to make a choice when one of their clan was injured. They would either have to leave that person behind to a sure death or stay put until the injured party recovered. That latter decision might well mean that the whole clan could starve to death.

    Outside a small cave in France there is evidence that a hunter gatherer informed his wife that her mother would have to be left behind because she was injured. He regained consciousness some time later and decided to stay put and become a farmer. I'm going by memory on that so don't quote me.

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  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    From earliest times we banned together for protection and to share resources. We send aid all over the world today because of tsunamis or earthquakes. I think someone just spent some time helping a brother-in-law? We're all in this together.
    This kind of is what I'm getting at. When is it too much. Helping friends and family, a tribal society, a rebublic with strong states rights or full blown totalitarian NWO? Where do you draw the line? When did the good things turn bad or too much?

  12. #52
    Super-duper Moderator Sarge47's Avatar
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    Cool Hmmmm...

    The question is: "will we return to this life;" meaning, if I understand this correctly, will we regress to the way we used to be? What this means to me is no indoor plumbing, shorter lifespans, whole families dying off because of epidemics, and so on. At this point, I'd say that no, we never will. One thing that has increased as we've progressed is knowledge. The folks that lived back then did not have the knowledge of how to do the things or make the things that we have today. Also, there was a lot more violence and anarchy going on then than now. Today it wouldn't be tolerated.
    SARGE
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  13. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge47 View Post
    The question is: "will we return to this life;" meaning, if I understand this correctly, will we regress to the way we used to be? What this means to me is no indoor plumbing, shorter lifespans, whole families dying off because of epidemics, and so on. At this point, I'd say that no, we never will. One thing that has increased as we've progressed is knowledge. The folks that lived back then did not have the knowledge of how to do the things or make the things that we have today. Also, there was a lot more violence and anarchy going on then than now. Today it wouldn't be tolerated.
    I saw a statistic that said 75 percent of the world population live like that now. The economy is raising that percentage each day. An adjustment is coming and my question is at what level do you think it will balance out. I doubt many honestly think things will improve or even maintain the statis quo.

  14. #54
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    We just went through the adjustment. The level that it balances out is what we have right now. I would guess that most think things will improve or we wouldn't be seeing an increase in home buying, an increase in stock investments or an increase in the purchase of durable goods.

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post
    Here's the way I see it. The advances made by mankind - agriculture, science, manufacturing - are all good. The fact is, we have abused the process and the product.

    We have poisoned much of the earth in the process, and we, mankind as a whole, have abused our capacity to produce and to consume, resulting in the over-population of this planet to a point of no return so far as sustainability or available resources go.

    Given circumstances as they are, the worlds population will continue to grow exponentially. It's like we've built this great boat, and we just keep piling people aboard unaware of the fact that it will eventually sink or capsize. Nothing short of a cataclysmic event or a world-wide pandemic or famine will correct this situation. Period.
    That really is it in a nutshell. Now all we have to do is wait for nature or our own inner controls to set it right. Maybe next time we won't be so greedy, shortsighted and selfish.

  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge47 View Post
    .... Also, there was a lot more violence and anarchy going on then than now. Today it wouldn't be tolerated.
    That's not true IMO. We have more violence and anarchy today, it's just disguised as something else or happening somewhere other than here. Toe-mato tu-motto
    .

  17. #57
    Super-duper Moderator Sarge47's Avatar
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    Cool Hmmmm...

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskan Survivalist View Post
    I saw a statistic that said 75 percent of the world population live like that now.....I doubt many honestly think things will improve or even maintain the statis quo.
    Not where I live. And who says what people are thinking is correct? Where you live there's no where near as many people as around here.
    SARGE
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  18. #58
    Super-duper Moderator Sarge47's Avatar
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    Cool Hmmmm...

    Quote Originally Posted by rwc1969 View Post
    That's not true IMO. We have more violence and anarchy today, it's just disguised as something else or happening somewhere other than here. Toe-mato tu-motto
    .
    Ahh, but that's my point, in the old days it was everywhere including here!
    SARGE
    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
    Albert Einstein

    Proud father of a US Marine....SEMPER FI!

    They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
    Benjamin Franklin

  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge47 View Post
    Not where I live. And who says what people are thinking is correct? Where you live there's no where near as many people as around here.
    Fox news, most of talk radio.

  20. #60

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    It still is here though more than ever before....because there's more people than ever before.

    Per capita it's probably the same as it ever it was.

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