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Thread: Will we return to this life?

  1. #21

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    The rights of native americans sometimes go too far......fishing is banned in many rivers in CA to protect the salmon, yet natives are allowed to dam the river!!!! What the hell!
    There are way to many natives living off of welfare and profiting off of their crappy casinos. Its pathetic. It makes me so angry. They are betraying the values of their ancestors. Native american youth are leaving their wellfare ghettos and joining the mexican immigrant gangs. I see it happening all the time around here. I love native american culture but hardly any native americans truly deserve the rights that our government provides.


    Anyways, yes, i do think that we will someday return to this life. Society is bound to crumble but its unlikely that the entire human race will go extinct.


  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by justin_baker View Post
    The rights of native americans sometimes go too far......fishing is banned in many rivers in CA to protect the salmon, yet natives are allowed to dam the river!!!! What the hell!
    There are way to many natives living off of welfare and profiting off of their crappy casinos. Its pathetic. It makes me so angry. They are betraying the values of their ancestors. Native american youth are leaving their wellfare ghettos and joining the mexican immigrant gangs. I see it happening all the time around here. I love native american culture but hardly any native americans truly deserve the rights that our government provides.


    Anyways, yes, i do think that we will someday return to this life. Society is bound to crumble but its unlikely that the entire human race will go extinct.
    Yes it is pathetic. This world for the one they had. If only I could get all the Chinese to jump up at once...

  3. #23
    Neo-Numptie DOGMAN's Avatar
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    I don't know anything about balance or Native American rights...but, I wish there were some sort of nationwide Subsistence laws or something. So, that you could get a card and be eligible to harvest game and fish year round and live in a camp in the Nat'l Forest for longer than two weeks at one spot (away from parking lots/cars) so you could try to live a life in "balance" in the antiquated old school way- just to see if its really possible in this modern era
    The way of the canoe is the way of the wilderness and of a freedom almost forgotten- Sigurd Olson

    Give me winter, give me dogs... you can keep the rest- Knud Rasmussen

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by DOGMAN View Post
    I don't know anything about balance or Native American rights...but, I wish there were some sort of nationwide Subsistence laws or something. So, that you could get a card and be eligible to harvest game and fish year round and live in a camp in the Nat'l Forest for longer than two weeks at one spot (away from parking lots/cars) so you could try to live a life in "balance" in the antiquated old school way- just to see if its really possible in this modern era
    This way of life is disappearing fast even in Alaska. All you have to do is look at population densities to see why. It will be more illegal as time goes by and wilderness survivalists will be criminals.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by justin_baker View Post
    The rights of native americans sometimes go too far......fishing is banned in many rivers in CA to protect the salmon, yet natives are allowed to dam the river!!!! What the hell!
    There are way to many natives living off of welfare and profiting off of their crappy casinos. Its pathetic. It makes me so angry. They are betraying the values of their ancestors. Native american youth are leaving their wellfare ghettos and joining the mexican immigrant gangs. I see it happening all the time around here. I love native american culture but hardly any native americans truly deserve the rights that our government provides.


    Anyways, yes, i do think that we will someday return to this life. Society is bound to crumble but its unlikely that the entire human race will go extinct.
    If only I could get all the Chinese to jump up all at once....

  6. #26
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    I don't understand why folks point back to some period in time and say, "the way of life is gone". Isn't that sort of abstract? How far back would you need to go to say, "Too far back!" Isn't the way of life whatever way you live? And if you aren't living the way you want to isn't that your own fault? There are still plenty of places in the world where subsistence living can occur. It may not be in North Dakota or Alaska but you can sure live your life any way you want in the Congo or the Amazon.

    Mankind in developed countries is safer, lives longer and a more healthy life than any previous generation. He's smarter, too, on the whole, because he's more educated. Just because someone doesn't choose to live in a grass hut and eat their fish raw doesn't make them blind to potential threats. Whether they choose to prepare or not doesn't make them stupid either. Maybe, they have a different belief system and they don't think the world is going to implode. Think about this, who are we to judge them on how they choose to live their life?

    Not trying to be cross just throwing out some thoughts.

  7. #27
    Senior Member BENESSE's Avatar
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    "Balance" takes all forms. Between what you want, and what you can afford...between what's good for you, and what's harmful...between what you would like to do and what you can do...on and on. We all grapple with it every day, some with more success, some, considerably less. Similar thing happens on a global scale. It's a fluid, ever-changing thing of give and take, risk and reward.

    One might wonder how I can continue to live in NYC with all its drawbacks and potential dangers and I might wonder how one can continue to smoke knowing full well where it can lead.
    We may not understand or agree with each others choices but making them can be equally hard.

  8. #28

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    There are thousands of websites dedicated to sustainability. I made the false assumption that this was a forgone conclusion among survivalists and have no more interest in convincing people of this than I do other things. Try catching big fish on small hooks or leave the blood in your fish, I don't care. I know even less about peak oil than I do fishing. The topic I posted was which time period would be sustainable. How much of this life could we retain?
    Last edited by Alaskan Survivalist; 07-07-2010 at 10:27 AM.

  9. #29
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Now don't get your knickers in a twist. We're just discussing stuff. No one is trying to convince you of anything any more than you are trying to convince us. How you believe is perfectly fine. So to your topic.

    Personally, I think every time frame has been sustainable or we wouldn't have survived. I really don't see any difference between growing corn by hand or by tractor. The only difference, really, is economy of scale. The basics still apply.

  10. #30
    Neo-Numptie DOGMAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    I don't understand why folks point back to some period in time and say, "the way of life is gone". Isn't that sort of abstract? How far back would you need to go to say, "Too far back!" Isn't the way of life whatever way you live? And if you aren't living the way you want to isn't that your own fault? There are still plenty of places in the world where subsistence living can occur. It may not be in North Dakota or Alaska but you can sure live your life any way you want in the Congo or the Amazon.
    I think we say things like, "that way of life is gone", because we are talking about the here and now- where we are standing- looking around now. And, for the most part here in the USA that way of life is gone. Why should one have to leave their family, friends and homeland to lead a simpler life based on just meeting their needs in a non-cash way? Most people don't want to leave the area they feel a sense of connection to...they want to become MORE connected to their environment- not pack up and leave it for some solitary existence in an unknown place. For many folks this is about simplyfying not complicating...moving to the Congo won't simplify things.

    Interestingly, the Native Peoples of Alaska and the Yukon who held onto subsistence lifestyles longer than most other cultures have always viewed white people who go up North to "live off the land" as odd ducks...not because they want to live off the land- but that they have little or no family to do it with. To the Indians & Eskimo there connections to the land and to family were of equal importance.
    The way of the canoe is the way of the wilderness and of a freedom almost forgotten- Sigurd Olson

    Give me winter, give me dogs... you can keep the rest- Knud Rasmussen

  11. #31

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    No twisted knickers here and I can prove it by being as off topic as everybody else. I picked up a cordless chainsaw yesterday. I have agonized over the decision to buy it for some time but finally did because it is so darn cute. I've been charging it all night and will try it out today. I will post results of test.

  12. #32
    Quality Control Director Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskan Survivalist View Post
    No twisted knickers here and I can prove it by being as off topic as everybody else. I picked up a cordless chainsaw yesterday. I have agonized over the decision to buy it for some time but finally did because it is so darn cute. I've been charging it all night and will try it out today. I will post results of test.
    AS? If you run out of wood, you're welcome to come over to my place to test it.
    “Learning is not compulsory. Neither is survival.”
    W. Edwards Deming

    "Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils."
    General John Stark

  13. #33

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    I am confident the battery will run down before I run out of wood.

  14. #34
    Quality Control Director Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskan Survivalist View Post
    I am confident the battery will run down before I run out of wood.
    Did I mention the cold beer? The awesome fishing in the area? The great beaches?
    “Learning is not compulsory. Neither is survival.”
    W. Edwards Deming

    "Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils."
    General John Stark

  15. #35

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    What's that compared to playing with a rechargable chainsaw in my yard?

  16. #36
    Neo-Numptie DOGMAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    Personally, I think every time frame has been sustainable or we wouldn't have survived. I really don't see any difference between growing corn by hand or by tractor. The only difference, really, is economy of scale. The basics still apply.
    I agree in the short term...sure we can say every time frame is sustainable. We're still here- we are still alive. We must be living a sustainable life- right?

    Wrong- don't be short-sighted "sustainability" is long term- think in the Native American sense of how 7 generations in the future will be effected by our actions. We need to be analyzing our impact on the earth all the time- just because we are alive today- doesn't mean that our grandkids- grandkids will have an inhabitable planet. How much oil can the oceans handle? How many species can we kill off (plants, animals, bugs, etc..) before we do irrepairable damage that causes a slide to oblivion?

    Farmers realized their practices were not sustainable years and years ago (so crop rotation and other practices were developed to protect the soil) Loggers realized Clear Cutting certain areas was not sustainable- so they minimized that practice to particular areas. People began to realize that unlimited harvest of game and fish was not sustainable so game limits were developed.
    We have to keep reflecting on our actions or we will destroy the earth. To think we are "living sustainably" just because we are alive is really naieve.

    As far as the difference between growing corn with a tractor or by hand...Forget about it- agriculture was the worst move in human history...we went from being hunters and gatherers with ample of free time, to being slaves of the soil. Agriculture was the original sin- we went from living in balance with the earth to controlling the earth when we started spreading seeds. If we would have stuck with hunting and gathering we wouldn't even be having this conversation right now!
    The way of the canoe is the way of the wilderness and of a freedom almost forgotten- Sigurd Olson

    Give me winter, give me dogs... you can keep the rest- Knud Rasmussen

  17. #37
    Quality Control Director Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskan Survivalist View Post
    What's that compared to playing with a rechargable chainsaw in my yard?
    *I thought that my shallow attempt at bribery was obvious.*

    Because I'm trying to get you to play with it in MY YARD. If you have a log-splitter, you can play with that, too. Probably got at least 6 cords.

    I'll be out back firing up the grill in case you're hungry when you arrive.
    “Learning is not compulsory. Neither is survival.”
    W. Edwards Deming

    "Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils."
    General John Stark

  18. #38
    Neo-Numptie DOGMAN's Avatar
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    I've always loved this joke....

    The old Indian chief sat in his home on the reservation, smoking his ceremonial pipe, eyeing the two U.S. government officials sent to interview him. "Chief Two Eagles," one official began, "you have observed the white man for many years. You have seen all his progress and all his problems." The chief nodded. The official continued, "What do you think of all the white man has done?" The chief stared at the officials for more than a minute, and then calmly replied. "When white man found the land, Indians were running it. No taxes. No debt. Plenty buffalo, plenty beaver. Women did most of the work. Medicine man free. Indian men hunted and fished all the time." The chief paused, then added, "Only white man dumb enough to think he could improve system like that."
    The way of the canoe is the way of the wilderness and of a freedom almost forgotten- Sigurd Olson

    Give me winter, give me dogs... you can keep the rest- Knud Rasmussen

  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by DOGMAN View Post
    Agriculture was the original sin- we went from living in balance with the earth to controlling the earth when we started spreading seeds. If we would have stuck with hunting and gathering we wouldn't even be having this conversation right now!
    That is farther back than I was thinking but you may very well be right. I was thinking some time before the industrial revolution and after the development of steel. I think the plains indians was the peak of civilization. I have heard they had a form of passive agriculture but have not found much information about it. They would do things that would improve the environment for plants like diverting a stream or cutting a branch off a tree that was blocking the sun of a plant. This was the kind of discussion I wanted to have.

  20. #40
    Quality Control Director Ken's Avatar
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    Here's the way I see it. The advances made by mankind - agriculture, science, manufacturing - are all good. The fact is, we have abused the process and the product.

    We have poisoned much of the earth in the process, and we, mankind as a whole, have abused our capacity to produce and to consume, resulting in the over-population of this planet to a point of no return so far as sustainability or available resources go.

    Given circumstances as they are, the worlds population will continue to grow exponentially. It's like we've built this great boat, and we just keep piling people aboard unaware of the fact that it will eventually sink or capsize. Nothing short of a cataclysmic event or a world-wide pandemic or famine will correct this situation. Period.
    “Learning is not compulsory. Neither is survival.”
    W. Edwards Deming

    "Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils."
    General John Stark

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