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  1. #21
    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pocomoonskyeyes View Post
    How about horse biscuits? Anyone ever use it for fertilizer? We have about 2 truckloads worth piled up outside the barn. I figured maybe we could spread it out in the garden plot then till it into the soil. It's not like we have a shortage of it.LOL We will ALWAYS have more!!!
    Rick said that he did in post #3.
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  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    The horse manure is really quite good. When I started my garden here I used a truck load as the base.
    Woops! You are right Crash! How did I miss that? Oh that's right Dottie was talking to me and I got distracted....

    Think he could use another truckload?? LOL

  3. #23
    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pocomoonskyeyes View Post
    Woops! You are right Crash! How did I miss that? Oh that's right Dottie was talking to me and I got distracted....
    It might have been your new avatar.
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  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by crashdive123 View Post
    It might have been your new avatar.
    WHAT!!?? you don't like my horse? (see my post in "absentee Ballot")

  5. #25
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    How old is it?
    If it's been there awhile, should work good tilled in.
    Very good amemet, has some nutrients, but mixed with bedding (organic material),helps build up "tilth" nad water retention.
    If fresh, would be too "hot" need to let age or till in the fall, plant in the spring.
    Don't spread too thick....6" or so then till.
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  6. #26
    Senior Member ClayPick's Avatar
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    You sure have a good start with all that horse manure. The only thing to watch out for would be fire fanging. Some manure can break down real fast and loose a lot of its nutrients. Horse poop is one of them. If it has lots of bedding material mixed in and doesn’t dry to fast it should be fine. Either way your soil will like it. Compost everything you can get your hands on! Here’s the 12 rules for finding a good spot for a garden, good luck!
    “Crop yield may be the best overall indicator of the condition of soil in a field. However, crop producers can check for signs of soil quality before harvest, says agronomist Denise McWilliams of the University of Minnesota extension service. She says the growing season is a good time to look at fields and evaluate soil according to 12 quality indicators.

    "One indicator is the presence of earthworms," says McWilliams. "The best time to check for them is spring or fall, but you can also do it in the summer. Take a shovel full of earth from the top foot of soil and do a quick count. Ten earthworms per shovel-full are a good soil health indicator, according to the book 'Building Soils for Better Crops' from the Sustainable Agriculture Network. Birds following behind tillage in the spring looking for worms are also a good sign."

    A second positive factor is organic matter, sometimes indicated by color. McWilliams says topsoil that is clearly defined and darker than the subsoil usually means excellent soil health. Organic residues on most of the soil surface are a third indicator, and the degree of subsurface compaction is a fourth.

    The fifth quality indicator is soil tilth or mellowness, also called friability. If you can place wire flags into the ground easily down to the plow layer with only your fingers, soil tilth is good, says McWilliams.

    If the soil crumbles well, is easily sliced and even spongy when you walk on it, you have a sixth indicator of quality. No gullies and no apparent soil runoff is a seventh factor. Eighth, the soil should hold water for long periods without signs of drought. Ninth, there should be no ponding or runoff from normal rainfall. Water should move steadily through the soil. A tenth indicator is crop color, which should be a healthy dark green throughout the season. Eleventh, the soil pH should fit the crop grown.

    The twelfth soil quality indicator is nutrient holding capacity. Soil tests should show an upward trend in soil nutrients in relation to fertilizer applied and crop harvested. However, nutrient levels should not go into the "very high" category, says McWilliams.

    "It's difficult for any piece of land to hit all 12 soil signs perfectly in one growing season," says McWilliams. "However, hitting as many as possible is a worthwhile goal."

  7. #27
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    CP. What the heck is "fire fanging", never heard of it.
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  8. #28
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    fire fanging is that gray colored look manure gets when it's older. At that point its decomposing. Old timers (older than me. Not many left) used to say manure was past its peak if it was gray in color. I think it's caused by heat build up in the manure.

    Also, for those that don't know tilth and friable are close to the same terms. They mean the soil has the right mixture of organic materials, sand and clay to produce good crops, manage water well and avoid compaction.

    Earth worms are wonderful for the garden. A++! Great little aerators and their castings also make great fertilizer. Keep adding any you find to the garden.

    Crash - I had never thought about it until I saw CP's post but you might try adding some worms to one or two of your tomato buckets and see if it increases yield in them. They will allow the roots more access to O2.
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  9. #29
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    One thing to remember, new gardener........

    You can really get bogged down in all the...This is the way to do it(s).
    I will drive you crazy, pick a spot, a sunny preferred, dig it up, dump in any thing that will rot, "except meat".

    Dig it up again, rake it out, mark out rows (or not)

    Decide what you want to grow.......Then plant it.
    Weed it. (a weed is any plant that's growing where you don't want it)
    Sit back and enjoy the fact you are doing something for your self, (something about getting yours hand in the dirt).

    Pick it, eat it and make plans to do it again.
    You are now a gardener.
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  10. #30

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    Manure with bedding in it may be good, but if the bedding is sawdust or shavings you are gonna need nitrogen amendment. Straw bedding is better for composting.

    I grow the size of my garden every year by getting a yard of fresh manure and a yard of screened loam and covering the new section of the yard-to-be-garden with about 6"-8" of the mix, with some compost thrown in. Do that in late August and September. The manure burns the grass as well as smothering it. In the spring I just till it all up and pull out the rocks (lots of glacial till in my area). First year planting is peas followed by beans. After that I rotate it. This year the garden is 15X30. Last year it was 15x24. This year I'm going to try a green-manure seeding in the fall.

    Watch where you buy your plants. I didn't have a problem with tomato blossom-end rot until I got some Walmart plants. If you can, get them from a smaller local commercial grower that has clean greenhouses. That would be better than mass produced Walmart. Look around at all the plants they have, not just the ones you are going to buy. I've got one more year of not planting tomatoes and hoping the rot spores are gone. I even solarized the garden under clear plastic I salvaged from work last August to speed that up. We'll see.

    Starting long-season plants from seed can be very tricky for the beginner. It's best to start out with things that will give you instant gratification just by planting them in the ground after the soil has warmed. Pole beans are fun for the kids and darn near indestructible. Bush beans give good yields and amend the soil with their nitrogen fixing roots. Don't pull them out, till them under. Radishes are plant em and stand back. Onions from sets or plants are fun, but depending on your soil how well they'll do. Zucchini or yellow squash and of course cucumbers for pickles. Those are all easy things. You might want to try to start your own tomatoes or other things from seed but don't be discouraged if at first you don't succeed. It is a real trick guessing your frost free date and working backwards. A Farmer's Almanac may help.

    Peas, onions, any of the brassicas (broccoli, cauliflower, brussles sprouts), beets, radishes all can be set out or seeded as soon as you can work the ground. Peas have the uncanny ability to know when to sprout. Once you see them, your other cold tolerant seeds/plants can go in the ground. I'll put peas in before the frost is out of the ground, as soon as I can work the top 2 or 3 inches.

    The trick with brassicas is to grow them during cool weather. Start them early indoors and put them out after the last killing frost (they can take a light frost). Or start them in mid-summer and get them in the ground for the cool days of autumn. They hate the heat. Brussel sprouts should be allowed at least one frost to get really sweet.

    The other trick is not planting things that hate each other too close together. Check around the web on Companion Planting to get the basics.

    The do's and don'ts will drive you crazy. The best advice you might get would be to talk to others in your area who have gardens and see what they grow. Local produce farms especially. Most towns these days have garden clubs. They aren't all little old ladies growing petunias.
    Last edited by LowKey; 01-17-2010 at 06:01 PM.

  11. #31
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    Good stuff, Lowkey. Companion planting can have a big impact on a smaller garden.

    On the blossom end rot it's a combination of water uptake and calcium. I don't know anyone that isn't impacted by it at some time or other. Generally, when one gardener has it, everyone has it. Last season was especially bad around here. I've started adding lime to my tomato plants at time of planting to ensure they have adequate access to calcium. Then I try to maintain even watering so they have enough water to uptake the calcium and aren't deprived. Higher salts in the soil will increase blossom end rot because the salts block the uptake of the calcium.

    I've been pretty lucky. Generally only my tomatoes are affected. I've seen gardens that had it on tomatoes, peppers and even eggplant.
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  12. #32

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    I had lots of problems with the stuff metioned above and started using Jerry Baker's gardening tonics and everything went away, bugs and all. my tomatos, squash and everything else rocked.

    Epsom salt, cola, beer, mouthwash, dishsoap among other things. Conditons the soil, kills off molds and mildews, etc. and gives bugs the sheets so they don't come back. Even the groundhog quit messing around. You have to follow his directions and time frames, but the stuff really works good and is simple and cheap to use.

  13. #33
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Tiny little high pitched bug conversation.

    "Hey! You got your BOB."
    "I'm leaving!"
    "The garden? How come?"
    "I got the sheets from all the stuff he's put in here."
    "Well, whatcha gonna do?"
    "I'm buggin' out."

    (get it? Bugs buggin' out? I slay myself)
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  14. #34
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    all the comedians out of work and here you go trying to be funny. lol.
    that is pretty funny though.. i imagine stuff like this when weeding
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  15. #35
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    You can start a mulch pile with anything green and brown. Leaves, grass clipping, etc. Just pile some up, pour a can of beer in it, toss some dirt on top (not a lot) and turn the whole thing every week. The dirt contains all the necessary microbes to break down the plant material and the beer has yeast that the microbes like.

    I have a grass catcher on my mower so I toss all my grass clipping in my garden. About the only weeds I have is when the @#$# ground squirrels bury the sunflower seeds put out for the birds or the corn set out for the squirrels.
    One suggestion on a compost pile:
    Quote Rick:
    Just pile some up, pour a can of beer in
    End quote
    Beer abuse, beer abuse!
    Strain it thru you kidneys first...............
    Adds nitrogen.
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  16. #36
    Senior Member ClayPick's Avatar
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    Yup, it has to be strained through the kindeys first.

  17. #37
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    I was actually referring to the cheap stuff. You know, that Ba Moui Ba or Tiger Beer stuff. Anyone have a can opener?
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  18. #38
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    I was actually referring to the cheap stuff. You know, that Ba Moui Ba or Tiger Beer stuff. Anyone have a can opener?
    O.K. I concede this one.......there is stuff out there that is pretty......
    bad?
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  19. #39

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    Even some of the "Good stuff" is pretty bad. Just sayin'.... It makes me wonder about some of them. A "Good" beer that tastes like.... well I can't really say that here. Bad just seems so lame.

  20. #40
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pocomoonskyeyes View Post
    Bad just seems so lame.
    I know, but for some reason the system won't let the truth get thru????
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