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    Horse Lover equus's Avatar
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    Poco and I are going to have a garden next year but I am wondering how big should we have one? We are going to try and can next year as well. For a family of 4 how big of a garden do I need? Thanks for the advice.
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    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    Equus - The size of your garden will really depend on several factors. I know at your new place that you have quite a bit of room, so that may not be one of the factors. One of the references I use in garden planning is a book titled Back To Basics. In it, it states
    A garden to supply a family of two adults and two school-age children with staples the year round should cover at least 2,500 square feet (50 by 50 feet or the equivalent). However, a garden as small as 15 by 20 feet (300 square feet) can produce an amazing quantity of fresh vegetables.
    That being said, you don't want to every plant more than you are willing to take care of. If you can of dry some of your harvest, you can enjoy the bounty of your garden year round.
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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    I would suggest starting small and increasing each year if that's something the two of you enjoy and want to do. You will need to consider the initial investment of seed and plants, and any amenities that need to be added to the soil. Remember, too, that maintaining a garden requires an ongoing commitment and starting out with a very large garden might overwhelm and discourage you because of the cost and time involved.

    You have some great fertilizer that you can add to a garden. The horse manure is really quite good. When I started my garden here I used a truck load as the base.

    Decide on what plants you would like to include in your garden and how many. Draw out a map with room for the plants to grow and be maintained. That will give you an idea of how large a garden you will have.

    You should also take a sample of soil to your county extension office to be analyzed. They will tell you what, if anything, needs to be added and what kind of soil you are dealing with. To some degree, that will determine what plants you will grow and what kind of drainage (or lack of) your location has. For example, a very rocky soil makes growing carrots difficult. The rocks cause the carrots to split into fingers rather than one large root. There are ways around that but knowing what you are dealing with is important.
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    Senior Member 2dumb2kwit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by equus View Post
    Poco and I are going to have a garden next year but I am wondering how big should we have one? We are going to try and can next year as well. For a family of 4 how big of a garden do I need? Thanks for the advice.
    I've also been thinking about starting a garden, this spring.(I haven't had one, since I was a kid.) I think I will start with a very small one. I just don't think I'm ready for a Rick, or Canid garden.

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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Actually, I don't have all that large of a garden. It's a roughly 20 x 30 raised bed. The fruits are planted around the house in flower bed fashion (strawberries, raspberries, currants) and I do have an area for my blackberries. But the main part of the garden is for my veggies.

    Another great book with a lot of useful information is Square Foot Gardening. You can get an amazing amount of food out of a very small area.

    http://www.squarefootgardening.com/
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  6. #6

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    Is this your first garden? Why are you planting it?

    Do you merely wish to grow your own food? Or is this for fun?

    IF you merely wish to grow your own food, understand, there are two types of edible gardening.

    1. Active gardening. Planting, an annual vegetable, weeding, fertilizing, harvesting, composting.

    2. Passive gardening. Planting a raspberry bush, strawberry patch, blueberry bush, apple tree, walnut tree, asparagus patch, grape or kiwi vine, etc. These are all things that once established need little care, only harvesting of their bounty.

    So the point Crash makes is applicable, don't plant more than what you can care for. But remember, some things take less care than others.

    Raspberry and Strawberry go best in raised beds because they spread, and because that is less stooping you need to do to harvest the strawberries (and keeps them less accessible to critters, a little bit). Raspberries also need support. Blueberries can just be planted, in sun, in acidic soil. They may require netting when fruit comes to keep the birds off. Raspberries and strawberries will give you a harvest the first year, blueberries usually take a few, and of course the size will grow in subsequent years. You only need a few plants for raspberries and strawberries, they multiply rapidly.

    Grapes and hardy kiwi vines do best on a T bar trellis. They require pruning but otherwise both grow very vigorously without much need for extra water or fertilizer (that goes for all permenant edible plantings I'm talking about). Sun.

    Asparagus do best in sun as well, and very loose soil, but take note. Plant them once and forget about moving them. Their roots can reach 15 feet deep. Don't harvest them the first year, let them get established.

    Fruit and Nut trees generally need sun. I would get at most semidwarf varieties, even if you have a lot of land, managing a full size apple tree can be tough. My favorite source is starkbros.com Any fruit or nut tree is going to take 3-5 years to yield.

    As for the rest, understand, not everything grows everywhere. I apparently can't grow good brussel sprouts here, I love them, but I tried growing a lot last year and they all came out bitter and it took them all summer to do so. Hot peppers also never perform well for me. So, to get the best yields, think about what grows good near you, talk to other gardeners or farmers, or lookup statistics.

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    Horse Lover equus's Avatar
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    To answer your question Chris it is a little of both. I want one to help support my family and 2 just for relaxation. I really enjoyed helping my om with one when I was a kid. Here is another question should I start with plants or seeds?
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    starting with seeds is not that much more work unless you live in a colder climate where the young sprouts might be damaged by late frosts. Sprouts are also more costly, unless you sprout your own seeds indoors. My mom sprouts most of her plants then transplants in Libra to the garden after easter.
    I prefer to use seeds myself. we have a really long growing season so I usually get 2 crops per summer from seeds.
    Mine is 50x50 and it is a LOT of extra work in the summer when I'm a lot busier with work. It feeds my family of 5 + my grandma = 6 all year.
    spend the money to get the soil tested.. it's worth it. I think it's $40 here.
    I keep referencing the book Gaia's Garden and it can tell you a lot about the "relaxation" garden, how to implement it so that it takes care of itself and adds beauty to your home, while providing food. I'm gonna be adding a lot of this type stuff over the summer to my own yard so maybe we can learn about that together
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    Also... seeds give you access to more variety, and if you sow directly in the ground (after frost has passed) I think you get healthier plants than if you did a transplant.

    You can build a simple plastic hoophouse around a section of your garden to cheat nature a few weeks on the frost date.

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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Dottie, I rustled up a document for you.

    http://www.ca.uky.edu/agc/pubs/id/id128/id128.pdf

    If you want to plant seeds for above ground crops like cucumbers, tomatoes or beans, then you want to plant them in small containers now. Otherwise, you can purchase them as plants from Walmart, Lowes or just about any other place. There are so many folks that sell plants it helps keep the price low but you can still sink $100 or more in plants if you go with a big garden.

    Here are the frost dates for Kentucky.

    http://www.victoryseeds.com/frost/ky.html

    You don't want to put plants out (purchased or from seeds) until after the last frost. Just keep an eye on the weather for a week or so after your plants go in the ground and if frost is predicted you'll need to cover them up.

    Lettuce, radishes and spinach seeds can be planted in early February. I sew the seeds on Valentines Day every year. Even if there is snow on the ground. The seeds will be fine and as soon as the ground warms they will germinate.
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  11. #11

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    OK a couple of things I need to add I guess. I would also like to "augment" our Garden with some wild edibles that I could plant in various places around the farm. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what/where to plant those? I know that I want blueberries for sure, but am a little doubtful/unsure to other fruits as some are poisonous to horses. Any suggestions to those? Plums,and Pears I am pretty sure are safe. I don't mind the horses eating some,as long as we get the majority of the harvest. I know that Cherries are out. Poisonous to horses.
    Last edited by pocomoonskyeyes; 01-16-2010 at 03:07 PM.

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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    I can't comment on anything around the horses, I don't know.

    Raspberries and blackberries will do very well where you live. Plant them in an area where you can easily access them. You can keep them mowed back so they don't overtake everything.

    You might also try cultivating Purslane. Easy to do. Easy to gather seeds, too. Great for salads. Incredibly hardy. You can break stems off and replant the stem and they will grow. Just darn hard to kill it.
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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pocomoonskyeyes View Post
    OK a couple of things I need to add I guess. I would also like to "augment" our Garden with some wild edibles that I could plant in various places around the farm. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what/where to plant those? I know that I want blueberries for sure, but am a little doubtful/unsure to other fruits as some are poisonous to horses. Any suggestions to those? Plums,and Pears I am pretty sure are safe. I don't mind the horses eating some,as long as we get the majority of the harvest. I know that Cherries are out. Poisonous to horses.
    It's been my experience that transplanted "wild plants" don't do well.
    They seem to like it where they are, or they wouldn't grow.
    Ricks advice, (think it was Rick), Start Small is still the best.

    You need to learn what grows where, in what type of soil, and what food you will actually use. (friend of mine does not like onions, so I asked him why he grows them, his answer, "just so I can throw them on the ground and watch them die"!)

    I started small, got bigger, got out of control (weeds, wheel barrows full of the same kind of produce everyone else has) got frustrated, wasted a lot of produce.
    Come to realize that tilling was a quick way to "erase your mistakes" and start over. Like erasing a black board.
    Big into mulching now.

    Now I go along with the "Less is more" theory.
    Plant what you can take care of, (thinning weeding), harvest when ready, learn how to store excess (This is a big deal).

    Some of my favorite references:
    http://www.amazon.com/Ruth-Stout-No-.../dp/0878570004

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/159...11A3882CNSHG3M


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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Mulch is definitely your friend. More mulch = less weeds.
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    Horse Lover equus's Avatar
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    What kind of mulch is the best.
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    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    Grass clippings work well. If available - straw or pine needles too.
    Last edited by crashdive123; 01-16-2010 at 06:43 PM.
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    If you use straw make sure it has no seed in it, I have used straw before that had seed in it and the seed came up and took over the plants.
    I would also start off with a smaller garden the first year since you have a full time job, a garden takes a lot of work, after the first year you wil know if you can handle working a larger garden.
    If you make the rows closer together you can plant more plants, plus when the plants spread out the will help to shade out weeds
    I have found that it is best to start with seed, just wait untilt he ground warms and there is no danger of frost, then plant your seed. You may want to try starting your tomatoe plants inside, put them under light or in a South facing window.
    Last edited by cabingirl; 01-16-2010 at 07:26 PM.

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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by equus View Post
    What kind of mulch is the best.
    I like free mulch.
    I use:
    newspapers (not the colored pages)
    cardboard (brown)
    Leaves (shredded or not) wet down to keep from flying around, they will mat up.
    grass clippings-lots (fresh and not too deep)
    Straw bales, pick up at curb after holiday season (people buy them for decoration, then throw them away)
    old carpet, jute backed Lay out over leaves, cut hole where you want to plant.
    black plastic, some like it, I don't use it.
    compost-dig in or side dress

    Trick is to put everything down, then cover with what ever you have the most of, so it "matches".

    Kinda goes back to a post by canid:
    http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ead.php?t=9848

    As you move around, keep your eyes open.
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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    You can start a mulch pile with anything green and brown. Leaves, grass clipping, etc. Just pile some up, pour a can of beer in it, toss some dirt on top (not a lot) and turn the whole thing every week. The dirt contains all the necessary microbes to break down the plant material and the beer has yeast that the microbes like.

    I have a grass catcher on my mower so I toss all my grass clipping in my garden. About the only weeds I have is when the @#$# ground squirrels bury the sunflower seeds put out for the birds or the corn set out for the squirrels.
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    How about horse biscuits? Anyone ever use it for fertilizer? We have about 2 truckloads worth piled up outside the barn. I figured maybe we could spread it out in the garden plot then till it into the soil. It's not like we have a shortage of it.LOL We will ALWAYS have more!!!

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