Hunting Predators

**Rick** · 06-20-2008, 06:52 PM

Over the last week or so I've happened upon an alarming number of articles, videos and postings that advocate the killing of coyotes. One video in particular was about the most gruesome display of inflicting misery on an animal I've ever seen. The animal was shot in the rear spine and left to his own devices. Frankly, I was outraged. I really wanted to return the favor.

Now I'm researching a firearm and I run into this on Remington's page (scroll down to the vid in the right hand frame):

http://www.remington.com/products/fi...l_R-15_VTR.asp

"I hunt predator's for a living."

Am I just in tree huggers paradise or doesn't the lowly coyote serve a valuable nitch as a predator. If the coyote goes the way of the bison shouldn't we be ready to expect mice by the gazillions as well as voles, rabbits and all manner of small mammals?

I have no qualms about someone shooting an animal for food. I rarely hunt but have no problems at all with those that do. I do have a problem with those that use animals for target practice or inflict unnecessary misery just for the sake of doing it. What could you possibly use a coyote for? You won't eat him.

Just tryin' to get me head on straight over this subject.

**crashdive123** · 06-20-2008, 06:59 PM

I have hunted, but I'm not a hunter. I have fished, but don't consider myself a fisherman. People hunt, trap and fish for food, clothing, shelter --- survival. I never understood why somebody would go out "just killin animals" for the sport of it.

**Ole WV Coot** · 06-20-2008, 07:33 PM

Where I live we seem to have an abundance of coyotes and they are more than pests. I keep a 30-30 by the back door just in case. I have a little beagle that would just make a snack for one. Downstairs I keep a 12ga loaded with half a dozen #4s. My friend has his cattle about a couple of miles away and he has killed 6 that I am aware of. At one time we had a problem with dogs running in packs. My son was about 14 and he never went on the hill without his 12ga. We have an abundance of deer & turkey around the house but they are ignored. I don't let them suffer but it's a necessity to keep the population down. I don't find any enjoyment in killing anything but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. I don't hunt or fish anymore. I can cover several hundred acres on my ATV without crossing a road so we have lots of "critters" visiting.

**FVR** · 06-20-2008, 07:43 PM

Coyotes can and are a major problem in many parts of the US. Over pop. of the coyote usually means less pop. of deer and turkey. They don't seem to hurt the hog pop. much. But when ya start talking about the deer and turkeys, whoooo, people get upset.

I mean, the coyote will kill for food, any deer it can. So, the big time hunter may have to satisfy himself with a measly 6 pt rather than the monster buck that he can mount on his wall.

Not to mention the fact that we as humans are taking over their environment and the coyote has been know to take out a few dogs, cats, and even a child here and there.

That being said, a bad shot is a bad shot. I bet ya that there are more bad shots on deer than coyotes anyday.

Coyotes are predators and like hogs, there are many who would just shoot them and let them lay. There are those that kind of joke about it.

I don't joke about it, you don't shoot at it unless you want to kill it. You don't kill it, unless you plan on eating it or in self defense. In self defense, ya then skin the critter, eat it if you can and then tan the hide.

**Rick** · 06-20-2008, 08:33 PM

See, I don't have a problem with what you two said. Other than the fact the cattle guy killed 6 but I don't know if they were a threat to the cattle or just a perceived threat. I'd protect my dog from one, sure, and you draw the line on anything and a kid.

I'm just trying to think through this thing so bare with me. It seems the coyote would thin the deer herd of the weak and injured leaving the big guys to breed. Superior genetics carried forward, if you will.

I'm sure there are those of you that shoot them and probably are not saying anything out of fear of some posting war but that isn't my intention. You can even PM me if you wish. I'm just trying to understand the need to kill a predator that (in my mind, at least) isn't capable of killing cattle (calf's maybe) but probably good take sheep.

For those of you that trap for a living or as a source of additional income. I don't have a problem with that either. I can even see taking a coyote for the hide if that's how you make a living. So I'm not all one sided (I don't think). Just seems that we have a propensity to kill just to kill.

**FVR** · 06-20-2008, 09:11 PM

What you speak of it true, but, not all is equal. The coyote, although he is considered a measly predator, is however top of the food chain in many areas. We have eliminated the critters that would prey on the coyote.

I really think your problem, is really not with the coyote hunters or any predator for that matter. Your problem is with those killers who kill for no other reason than just to kill. But in todays hunting community, there are many who do this every deer season. They go for only the monster bucks and trophy animals, not to eat, not to use their skins or bones, but to engorge their ego's and decorate their walls.

I personally do not hunt coyotes, as I don't find pleasure in killing dogs, wild or not.

**Ole WV Coot** · 06-20-2008, 09:51 PM

I agree completely, I don't hunt and that includes predators but for some strange reason which can't be explained we have an abundance of deer. I drive 10miles to church at night and will see a dozen in the road, or worse by the road. More vehicles are damaged by deer yet coyotes aren't interested in them. The warden is a personal friend and he said a few years ago deer were killed for meat, then he would find a buck decapitated. From that deer were shot and only the rack was taken. Now folks with gardens just shoot them and let them rot. We have a law in WV that I don't agree with. We were coming home from church and a truck ahead of us hit a deer and went on. It was obvious the deer wouldn't live and was in the ditch with legs snapped etc. My wife wanted me to put it out of it's misery so I got out with a 45 to kill it. A man behind be told me not to kill it because it was illegal and involved a large fine. Only the warden or State Trooper could shoot it. We called my friend the warden and he confirmed it. It took him an hour to get there. He said he couldn't explain it, the law was strictly political.

**FVR** · 06-20-2008, 10:12 PM

Hunters are basically assisting in the ending of hunting. Let's see, they go out and plow fields, plant special grain that enhances antler growth, they then charge alot of money to hunt the planted land. Then they make rules that only the monster bucks can be shot, most don't want to shoot does because they don't want to lose the chance for a mount on their wall.

The public and anti's, all they see on tv are so called prof. hunters, shoot animals and then comment on the size the horns, antlers, or teeth.

You can thank big retail companies for not only encouraging these actions, but rewarding them.

Wonder just how many of these so called prof. hunters can "walk alone" into the Appalachian, the Rocky, or an Alaskan wilderness and be successful, without food plots or guides.

Just my buck two fifty.

**Rick** · 06-21-2008, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by FVR

Your problem is with those killers who kill for no other reason than just to kill.

Frank, you might be right. Maybe that's it. Maybe I'm complicating the issue by bringing the coyote into the picture. There was a vid earlier that vaporized a ground hog and I didn't understand that either. When I see that sort of stuff I envision the great plains littered with dead buffalo. Sometimes only the hides were taken sometimes nothing was taken. They were shot only to deny Native Americans with their source of food and hides. Not the same scale I know but the same mentality.

I'll let it go now.

**Ole WV Coot** · 06-21-2008, 08:10 AM

The ultra liberal tree hugging, feed the bears types are changing the natural order of things in the animal kingdom. Wild animals shouldn't be treated as pets. We have messed with nature and have it all out of whack. We kill what we fear, snakes any type. Animals we consider predators. We protect game animals like deer until they become a pest. Some places I hunted years ago are now brush choked because natural burns are quickly put out. Now we have no forests. My nearest neighbor called one morning and said a bear was trying to get in the kitchen door. I took a rifle and drove down. They had grilled out the night before and a young bear about 100lbs was checking out the grill. When she saw me and the bear first thing she did was start to feed it when I told her I would just run it off. Maybe education is the answer, I just don't know.

**canid** · 06-21-2008, 12:54 PM

hey, don't group us tree huggers with the bear feeding, misunderstanding the order of the wild types.

we don't even get the same news letters.

**Pict** · 06-21-2008, 01:36 PM

I hunt. In areas where coyotes are abundant they need to be controlled or they will decimate game bird populations. They don't often down deer but phesants and turkeys are easy prey to them. They also are very brazen and will take pets in yards. Wolves kill coyotes on sight but we don't have too many wolves in the lower 48. I have friends out in Iowa who hunt coyotes alot and it isn't an easy hunt. My brother has killed 3 in PA and one in Iowa, nice pelts.

As far as the commercializaton of big racks and the quasi-religious status of the big deer industry, can't stand it personally. I hunt deer for the meat not the rack but that wouldn't stop me from shooting or having a big buck mounted (the cash might stop me). My brother has a pair of monster bucks mounted that he took with a longbow, they were eaten though. I don't see a problem with it.

Predator control is necessary because we have unbalanced nature with modern agriculture and that creates an abundance of prey species. Predator populations are cyclical as well. As herd size/prey density increases so do predator populations. As for prey, they get eaten by men, wolves, or worms, take your pick. Mac

**klkak** · 06-21-2008, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by Rick

I have no qualms about someone shooting an animal for food. I rarely hunt but have no problems at all with those that do. I do have a problem with those that use animals for target practice or inflict unnecessary misery just for the sake of doing it. What could you possibly use a coyote for? You won't eat him.

Just tryin' to get me head on straight over this subject.

Rick, I don't advocate killing an animal for the sport of it. In the winter when the pelts are prime I will not hesitate to kill a coyote or any other wild K-9. However, I use the pelts. I don't like to shoot them. I'd rather trap them. It does less damage to the fur. But if I see one and can take him with a well placed rifle shot I will do it.

Coyote's are an animal that has actually grown in numbers. It thrives right along side humans. Throughout most of its range it has virtually no natural predators. It will eat almost anything including pets.

"You need to have a reason to kill an animal whether it is for use or conservation but not for sport".

**RBB** · 06-21-2008, 09:03 PM

I love to hunt. I'd love to hunt in Alaska, or NW Territories. I have relations who've been inviting me to hunt deer and pheasant in the NW corner of ND. Great hunting, and they have a free hunting shack (old farm house) for my use. They usually rent it for $1000 a week.

Trouble is, I'm known to all my friends as the cheapest hunter on earth. I never drive anywhere and I never go out with the boys after a day's hunting. If I can't get the meat cheaper by hunting, I'll stay home and buy beef from the grocery store.

Must be a hold over from my childhood.

As to predators - if they're taking your cows - go for it. If you can't turn around with out seeing one - they may need to be thinned. However, for years everyone said wolves were affecting the deer herd. If that's the case, why do we have a large wolf population and the highest deer count ever?