Can you get comfy with it?

[rebel]

What if...

1. Gas is $7.99 a gallon.
2. Bread is $5.95 a loaf.
Everything is more than double what you're paying now and if you have a job, your taxes are 70%.
3. Perhaps you lost your job, the savings are almost gone and no employment is in sight. Double digit unemployment will be the base line.
4. You can't pay the mortgage, rent or taxes so, you're evicted.
5. Crime is a big problem.
6. Your child needs medical help and you can't get it.
7. Social security...gone.
8. 401...gone.
9. Pension...gone.

What's your long term game plan? I say long term because you know it won't be quick.

Well, say hello to the new world order of equality.

[Rick]

You're making some strong assumptions. Prices will certainly increase and it doesn't take much to imagine doubling or tripling. However, you have to remember that's just a natural part of the equation.

1960 prices.

In 1960 a new house cost $12,700.00 and by 1969 was $15,500.00

In 1960 the average income per year was $5,315.00 and by 1969 was $8,540.00

In 1960 a gallon of gas was 25 cents and by 1969 was 35 cents

In 1960 the average cost of new car was $2,600.00 and by 1969 was $3,270.00

Volkswagon beetle $1,769

Ford Mustang 2 door hardtop $2368

Misses Swinging Shifts Skirts $5.00 (http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/60sclothes.html)

Oxford mens Shoes $12.95

Automatic Can Opener $8.88

Automatic Electric Blanket $9.94

Oranges 89 cents for 2 dozen

Oven ready Turkeys 39 cents per pound

Modern Walnut Bookcase $29.97

Coal $14.95 ton

So yeah. Call it the new world order or what ever you want. We've been living since we were born.

......nothing to see here folks......keep moving.

[crashdive123]

My long term game plan is just that, and as such, several of the items on the list would not be an issue. Obviously inflation would be. I may need to be more frugal than I am, but would come out on the other end.

[Rick]

Oooh. I just hope there's still toilet paper when you finally come out....on the other end.

[crashdive123]

Start planting the Mullein now.

[rebel]

I'm not here to doom and gloom. As one who has been to some crappy places in the world where folks survive everyday what is your plan? Or, put your head...(in the sand, to be nice).

[pocomoonskyeyes]

What if...

1. Gas is $7.99 a gallon.
2. Bread is $5.95 a loaf.
Everything is more than double what you're paying now and if you have a job, your taxes are 70%.
3. Perhaps you lost your job, the savings are almost gone and no employment is in sight. Double digit unemployment will be the base line.
4. You can't pay the mortgage, rent or taxes so, you're evicted.
5. Crime is a big problem.
6. Your child needs medical help and you can't get it.
7. Social security...gone.
8. 401...gone.
9. Pension...gone.

What's your long term game plan? I say long term because you know it won't be quick.

Well, say hello to the new world order of equality.
Been there done that. It's called being Homeless. I've made it before, I can again(even though I don't want to).

[rebel]

Been there done that. It's called being Homeless. I've made it before, I can again(even though I don't want to).

You did. Thank goodness. What if the number of homeless in that area were three or four times as many. Could the outcome have been the same?

[Ken]

What if...

your taxes are 70%.


That's the deal breaker. We've almost always seen some rate of inflation. However, the government like to milk us by percentages. Government isn't happy living with a fixed percentage of rising incomes. Nope. It wants to bleed every friggin cent it can squeeze from us until we're so broke we have to turn back to the government and beg for help from programs that our own tax dollars are paying for.

In another couple of years, I plan to ask the government to take my entire damned income, deduct all local, state, and federal taxes and mandates from it, and provide me with a damned one room shack with heat and electric, some food, and public transportation to my publically financed and rationed medical care when necessary, because I'll tell you, when you include all the mandates that government requires me to pay for AFTER TAXES I ain't far from that 70% figure NOW! :sneaky2:

[Boker]

That's the deal breaker. We've almost always seen some rate of inflation. However, the government like to milk us by percentages. Government isn't happy living with a fixed percentage of rising incomes. Nope. It wants to bleed every friggin cent it can squeeze from us until we're so broke we have to turn back to the government and beg for help from programs that our own tax dollars are paying for.

In another couple of years, I plan to ask the government to take my entire damned income, deduct all local, state, and federal taxes and mandates from it, and provide me with a damned one room shack with heat and electric, some food, and public transportation to my publically financed and rationed medical care when necessary, because I'll tell you, when you include all the mandates that government requires me to pay for AFTER TAXES I ain't far from that 70% figure NOW! :sneaky2:


Prison will provide all that, plus free cable if you can afford the TV.

[rebel]

That's the deal breaker. We've almost always seen some rate of inflation. However, the government like to milk us by percentages. Government isn't happy living with a fixed percentage of rising incomes. Nope. It wants to bleed every friggin cent it can squeeze from us until we're so broke we have to turn back to the government and beg for help from programs that our own tax dollars are paying for.

In another couple of years, I plan to ask the government to take my entire damned income, deduct all local, state, and federal taxes and mandates from it, and provide me with a damned one room shack with heat and electric, some food, and public transportation to my publically financed and rationed medical care when necessary, because I'll tell you, when you include all the mandates that government requires me to pay for AFTER TAXES I ain't far from that 70% figure NOW! :sneaky2:

That's my point. We're not far from this! In the past two years I've lost my pension, taken a 40% pay cut, the 401 is barely bumping along, social security is bankrupt, taxes are going up, cost of living has doubled and maybe some crappy health care. If you think it wont happen to you or it's "the normal way of things (inflation and all)". Stand-by.

[Pal334]

Things are certainly changing, just take prudent (or as prudent as possible) actions to prepare for the future. "They ain't no free lunchs". I am postioning myself not to rely on government and outside sources (never will be able to do 100 %)The way I look at it, I can prepare as I indicated and live my life, or I can "doom and gloom" and not enjoy whatever I can today.

And exhort all that will listen to VOTE!!!!

[pocomoonskyeyes]

You did. Thank goodness. What if the number of homeless in that area were three or four times as many. Could the outcome have been the same?

When I was homeless it was totally urban. I now live in a rural area. What I would be doing now would be more what we call wilderness survival. It should be easier for me not harder. Not many around here know what we know. For that matter not many anywhere know what we know. Same answer. Homelessness is really about adapting to survive. I may not be "Comfy" but I can and will survive.

[Ken]

We NEED a Constitutional Amendment limiting all federal taxes combined (Income, FICA, Medical) to 10%.

NO FEDERAL MANDATES requiring anyone to purchase anything. Sorry, but I am NOT inclined to substitute some jack@ss politicians judgment for my own when it comes to deciding what I need.

The feds should concentrate on national defense, law enforcement, transportation, certain environmental protection issues, food safety, and the like. It should mind its own F'n business and stay out of matters involving of education, studying cow farts, redistribution of wealth, deciding on who my doctor should be, and bailing out foreign countries and foreign corporations.

And when I see a homeless person here, it pisses me off to realize that MY tax dollars are being used to build schools in some foreign place with a name I can't even pronounce. Maybe if our government wasn't bleeding us dry, we could afford to contribute more to organizations like the Salvation Army that actually spend the donations they receive for their intended uses.

TERM LIMITS AND ELECTED JUDGES NOW!!!!! :sneaky2:

[rebel]

We NEED a Constitutional Amendment limiting all federal taxes combined (Income, FICA, Medical) to 10%.

NO FEDERAL MANDATES requiring anyone to purchase anything. Sorry, but I am NOT inclined to substitute some jack@ss politicians judgment for my own when it comes to deciding what I need.

The feds should concentrate on national defense, law enforcement, transportation, certain environmental protection issues, food safety, and the like. It should mind its own F'n business and stay out of matters involving of education, studying cow farts, redistribution of wealth, deciding on who my doctor should be, and bailing out foreign countries and foreign corporations.

And when I see a homeless person here, it pisses me off to realize that MY tax dollars are being used to build schools in some foreign place with a name I can't even pronounce. Maybe if our government wasn't bleeding us dry, we could afford to contribute more to organizations like the Salvation Army that actually spend the donations they receive for their intended uses.

TERM LIMITS AND ELECTED JUDGES NOW!!!!! :sneaky2:

I agree 100%!

Social security started at 1%. Now it's like 15% and bankrupt. Get the torches.

[Rick]

Okay, you asked. I'll take each point one at a time:

1. Gas is $7.99 a gallon.
No one has a crystal ball but that's probably on the high side of pricing. $4-5 per gallon is the near term is probably realistic. I would think (hope) that $8 a gallon is some years down the road. But there are plenty of countries that are and have been paying those prices from quite some time. You have to remember that those kind of prices in the near term will stagnate growth and the government probably won't let that happen....short term.

2. Bread is $5.95 a loaf.

Same kind of a thing here. Food prices in generally will continue to rise but not at the rate of carbon based fuels. We're fortunate here that we have a lot of land in land bank that can be put into production should a short fall arise. We had all better get on board with genetically engineered food because that's the only way we'll feed a growing population.

Everything is more than double what you're paying now and if you have a job, your taxes are 70%.

Not in the near term and I think you were being factitious about 70% anyway. The big, really big, bear in the path right now is health care. If it passes then taxation HAS to increase. They can say what the want but it's the only way to pay for it. If it doesn't pass then we may see taxation remain somewhat steady for a while.

3. Perhaps you lost your job, the savings are almost gone and no employment is in sight. Double digit unemployment will be the base line.

All a real possibility. Double digit unemployment is a reality. It just turned 10.2% last Friday. But remember, we're on the back side of one of the deepest recessions in many a moon so those numbers will go back down. Jobs will have to pick up as well as the economy picks up. One of the best key indicators of the market place is trucking. Truck lines are generally the first to be impacted when the economy falters and the first to recover when the economy begins to turn around. If you monitor that activity then you know that the last few weeks have seen a substantial improvement in the trucking industry because manufacturing and electronics have all picked up substantially.

4. You can't pay the mortgage, rent or taxes so, you're evicted.

Well, there are ways around that. A lot has to do with the type of structure you set up to begin with. That is the type of loan you took out, amount of debt you incurred, the size of the home, etc. You can control a LOT of that on the front end. If you handle your finances then you should have a reserve fund set aside. Even without all of that there are ways to avoid being evicted like paying only the interest on the loan until you can get back on your feet. It's amazing how many people do NOT go in and set down with their lien holder and discuss some alternative. The lien holder doesn't want you to default any more than you want to. Sometimes just talking with them will net results.

5. Crime is a big problem.

Yep. It is now and it will continue to grow. I think of it as a social cancer. Fewer and fewer want to take responsibility for their actions and more and more are abandoning or never had a moral compass.

6. Your child needs medical help and you can't get it.

This one has been around for far too many folks for way too long. There have always been families that fall into this well and the current plan is not the fix for it.

7. Social security...gone.

I don't think this will happen only because I don't think there is a politician alive that would vote to dismantle SS. I think you'll see a lot of changes in the structure but it will continue to be there for perpetuity.

8. 401...gone.

Part of this is the fault of the investor because they fail to diversify their portfolio. The good folks at Woldcom that went from gazillions to zip did so because they held Worldcom stock. Only Worldcom or predominantly Worldcom stock. You do stupid things you should expect to get trounced.

9. Pension...gone.

Yes and No. Pensions are protected by the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation should a company fail. Pension benefits at normal retirement as well as some early retirement benefits, annuity benefits for survivors and some disability benefits are all covered.

Of course, a company can stop providing pension benefits any time they want and many certainly have.

No my head isn't in the sand. You have to sit down and make short term, mid term and long term plans and adjust those plans in accordance with economic conditions. You can not allow yourself to be in a position that you do not control. A position that is controlled by someone else. If it isn't working as you outlined above then it might be time to think about something else that WILL work. Only you can determine what that is because only you can determine what is right for you.

[Rick]

Social security started at 1%. Now it's like 15% and bankrupt.

You also have to remember that what that 1% paid for in 1935 is a far cry from what is being paid out today.

[Rick]

Hey Rebel. Just my opinion on this stuff. Didn't mean to run you off...........I was ready for a good jousting match.

[Boker]

Prison will provide all that, plus free cable if you can afford the TV.



I think Boker makes a pretty good point!! :phone:

[rebel]

Okay, you asked. I'll take each point one at a time:

1. Gas is $7.99 a gallon.
No one has a crystal ball but that's probably on the high side of pricing. $4-5 per gallon is the near term is probably realistic. I would think (hope) that $8 a gallon is some years down the road. But there are plenty of countries that are and have been paying those prices from quite some time. You have to remember that those kind of prices in the near term will stagnate growth and the government probably won't let that happen....short term.

2. Bread is $5.95 a loaf.

Same kind of a thing here. Food prices in generally will continue to rise but not at the rate of carbon based fuels. We're fortunate here that we have a lot of land in land bank that can be put into production should a short fall arise. We had all better get on board with genetically engineered food because that's the only way we'll feed a growing population.

Everything is more than double what you're paying now and if you have a job, your taxes are 70%.

Not in the near term and I think you were being factitious about 70% anyway. The big, really big, bear in the path right now is health care. If it passes then taxation HAS to increase. They can say what the want but it's the only way to pay for it. If it doesn't pass then we may see taxation remain somewhat steady for a while.

3. Perhaps you lost your job, the savings are almost gone and no employment is in sight. Double digit unemployment will be the base line.

All a real possibility. Double digit unemployment is a reality. It just turned 10.2% last Friday. But remember, we're on the back side of one of the deepest recessions in many a moon so those numbers will go back down. Jobs will have to pick up as well as the economy picks up. One of the best key indicators of the market place is trucking. Truck lines are generally the first to be impacted when the economy falters and the first to recover when the economy begins to turn around. If you monitor that activity then you know that the last few weeks have seen a substantial improvement in the trucking industry because manufacturing and electronics have all picked up substantially.

4. You can't pay the mortgage, rent or taxes so, you're evicted.

Well, there are ways around that. A lot has to do with the type of structure you set up to begin with. That is the type of loan you took out, amount of debt you incurred, the size of the home, etc. You can control a LOT of that on the front end. If you handle your finances then you should have a reserve fund set aside. Even without all of that there are ways to avoid being evicted like paying only the interest on the loan until you can get back on your feet. It's amazing how many people do NOT go in and set down with their lien holder and discuss some alternative. The lien holder doesn't want you to default any more than you want to. Sometimes just talking with them will net results.

5. Crime is a big problem.

Yep. It is now and it will continue to grow. I think of it as a social cancer. Fewer and fewer want to take responsibility for their actions and more and more are abandoning or never had a moral compass.

6. Your child needs medical help and you can't get it.

This one has been around for far too many folks for way too long. There have always been families that fall into this well and the current plan is not the fix for it.

7. Social security...gone.

I don't think this will happen only because I don't think there is a politician alive that would vote to dismantle SS. I think you'll see a lot of changes in the structure but it will continue to be there for perpetuity.

8. 401...gone.

Part of this is the fault of the investor because they fail to diversify their portfolio. The good folks at Woldcom that went from gazillions to zip did so because they held Worldcom stock. Only Worldcom or predominantly Worldcom stock. You do stupid things you should expect to get trounced.

9. Pension...gone.

Yes and No. Pensions are protected by the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation should a company fail. Pension benefits at normal retirement as well as some early retirement benefits, annuity benefits for survivors and some disability benefits are all covered.

Of course, a company can stop providing pension benefits any time they want and many certainly have.

No my head isn't in the sand. You have to sit down and make short term, mid term and long term plans and adjust those plans in accordance with economic conditions. You can not allow yourself to be in a position that you do not control. A position that is controlled by someone else. If it isn't working as you outlined above then it might be time to think about something else that WILL work. Only you can determine what that is because only you can determine what is right for you.

I do appreciate your point of view.

Gas will continue to climb and so will everything else. Nothing is being done for it not to increase in price.

Food prices will also climb.

New Jersey residents are paying 65% in taxes.

Unemployment can be twice the reported. Maybe, 20%+.

Eviction...money talks and BS walks. The BS could work short term.

SS, yea the name will be around. You'll get the same no matter what you paid into the fund.

401, I don't know of anyone who didn't loose no matter what their investments were.

Pension, PBGC max is 24k. That's before taxes.

Why hide the truth?

[Ken]

You also have to remember that what that 1% paid for in 1935 is a far cry from what is being paid out today.

But let's not forget that 1% of 1935 income was a lot less then than it is today.

That's the point. Percentages. Whenever the government increases the percentage you pay for ANY tax, they claim a bigger share of the pie.

The pie gets bigger every year with (even minimal) inflation. However, government just keeps taking a larger percent of that larger pie each year, and the piece of that larger pie that's left for us is getting smaller.

Government spending is now out of control. It's reckless, irresponsible, and poses a bigger threat to our national security and world standing than any foreign power has ever been able to do. We are really on the brink of becoming a third world socialist debtor nation.

In case people don't realize it, the government is effectively controlling, in some way, every decision and purchase and choice we make in our lives, and is taxing and mandating us to death in the process.

[rebel]

You also have to remember that what that 1% paid for in 1935 is a far cry from what is being paid out today.

...the slippery slope for vote. What now, after all the pay programs?

[old soldier]

I don't believe we've seen an end to the recession, just a start of a real bad depression. everyday there are more signs, the market going up with worthless paper and the same millionairs making more millions. gold going up and the dollar going down, unemployment up over 10% with the real figure being over 17%. houses and autos still being reposessed, tent cities popping up all over, everyday, more home invasions,even illegals going home because they can't find work. the other day there was a headline that said 69 million people in the US that can't afford to eat healthy meals. some people may get a real wake up call in a few yrs when the dollar is worthless and bread is 7 bucks a loaf and coffee is 15 bucks a pound.
The people who are out of debt, live on a few acreas and can support them selves will have the best chance, the rest will see hard times like the great depression never saw and we done it to our selves, everything is run by large corporations, even the government, when we let the family farms go,that was the beginning of the end. they're not there to feed America again, we're at the mercy of big business and forign countries.
all we need is a little push to get the ball started, like Israel attacking Iran and have the Strait of Harmuz closed up. things may not happen overnight and there may be a few yrs, but i believe they're comming.
JMO.

[old soldier]

We NEED a Constitutional Amendment limiting all federal taxes combined (Income, FICA, Medical) to 10%.

NO FEDERAL MANDATES requiring anyone to purchase anything. Sorry, but I am NOT inclined to substitute some jack@ss politicians judgment for my own when it comes to deciding what I need.

The feds should concentrate on national defense, law enforcement, transportation, certain environmental protection issues, food safety, and the like. It should mind its own F'n business and stay out of matters involving of education, studying cow farts, redistribution of wealth, deciding on who my doctor should be, and bailing out foreign countries and foreign corporations.

And when I see a homeless person here, it pisses me off to realize that MY tax dollars are being used to build schools in some foreign place with a name I can't even pronounce. Maybe if our government wasn't bleeding us dry, we could afford to contribute more to organizations like the Salvation Army that actually spend the donations they receive for their intended uses.

TERM LIMITS AND ELECTED JUDGES NOW!!!!! :sneaky2:

I'd like to start with Term Limits for all elected offices, the president is limited, the people who really make the decission are there for life.

[Winnie]

A take on this from over the pond.

Petrol(gas) average £1.08p a litre approx £5 a gallon.

Income tax is on a sliding scale depending on income. Starting at 10% for £2000 and under, up to 40% in excess of 34,000

The average house price is £160,000 for a 2 bed property

National insurance (social fund NHS) is 11% of your weekly earnings, if you earn over £110, if you earn ove £810 per week there's a sliding scale added on to that.

Road tax is measured on an emissions sliding scale. For a small efficient car of about 900cc it's £35 going up to £405 for a 4 wheel drive inefficient job.

A small 2 bedroomed house is £550 per month to rent.

Council tax(I think you'd call them local taxes) depending on where you live vary between £90 and £200 per month.(that's just my area)

VAT is 15% on everything, including luxury foodstuffs(chocolate, cookies etc)

That dozen oranges would cost over £3

A loaf of decent bread is £1.10p

Just a snapshot of living costs over here in the UK

Don't forget to multiply these prices by 1.68 to get the dollar equivalent.

And yes I am using my vote!

[Pal334]

I do appreciate your point of view.

Gas will continue to climb and so will everything else. Nothing is being done for it not to increase in price.Send the dissatification to your elected officials VOTE

Food prices will also climb.

New Jersey residents are paying 65% in taxes. I am a longtime resident of the Peoples Republic of NJ. Although we are paying heavy taxes ( amongst the highest in the nation), it is no wheres near 65%

Unemployment can be twice the reported. Maybe, 20%+.

Eviction...money talks and BS walks. The BS could work short term.

SS, yea the name will be around. You'll get the same no matter what you paid into the fund.

401, I don't know of anyone who didn't loose no matter what their investments were.Not sure where you got that from. I lost nothing, lucked out with a principle preservation of Government securities.

Pension, PBGC max is 24k. That's before taxes.

Why hide the truth?I try to avoid generalizations, they seem very unproductive. And are defeatist, everyone, get of you a** and participate in the system and work for improvement!!!

[your_comforting_company]

What if...

1. Gas is $7.99 a gallon.
I couldn't afford it when it was $4 a gallon. All I can do is increase my labor charge to make up the difference, do less riding around, and perhaps start a coalition for fuel options
2. Bread is $5.95 a loaf.
We will have to go back to making our own bread. hopefully the gaia gardening book will help me with raising grains before bread goes that high.
Everything is more than double what you're paying now and if you have a job, your taxes are 70%.
There are ways to hide certain amounts of your income...
3. Perhaps you lost your job, the savings are almost gone and no employment is in sight. Double digit unemployment will be the base line.
I did lose my job, had no savings because I really didn't make enough money to put any away. Self-employment is the only option and you won't be working for money, but rather food, clothing, shelter (like homestead farming) and seed.
4. You can't pay the mortgage, rent or taxes so, you're evicted.
Luckily I bought my property for a fraction of todays prices from family. In the case of many who ARE in that situation, surely there is something you can trade (time and labor, or food) The mortgage lenders will be in the same boat as you, lets not forget. They will be hungry and cold too and would probably be willing to work for you so they'll have basic necessities.
5. Crime is a big problem.
This is true now. folks know not to be screwin around on my property. I shoot first and ask questions later. booby traps make good deterrents, and so do dead bodies hanging in the trees.
6. Your child needs medical help and you can't get it.
Thats exactly how I live right now. no big difference then or now for us.
7. Social security...gone.
My grandma lives off a little more than $300 a month from SS. It's almost gone now and I'm pretty sure it won't be there when I'm old (If I live long enough to be "old"
8. 401...gone.
I haven't had a 401k plan since I lost my first job over 10 years ago. 401k is a joke. I'm not going to participate in it anyway. It is the perpetuation of speculation of future worth. Can I borrow that crystal ball? oh wait.. thats a magic 8-ball? nevermind...
9. Pension...gone.
Pension? What pension? I've never had one.

What's your long term game plan? I say long term because you know it won't be quick.
Learn more about living off the land, getting by with less, and living comfortably without "modern" technology and programs. Be less dependent on others and more independent as a family or group.
Well, say hello to the new world order of equality.
I only wish we could be equal. the way I see it, those that are dependent on money and finances will get eaten because they will be the first to starve. In the end, there will only be survivors that have learned to do more with less and found independence from the corporate government profit machine.

The first order of business is to regulate how much politicians can make. I feel that anyone who is going to represent the whole of america cannot be "rich". to truly feel it at the gas pump and grocery store they need to be as poor as me. $8 a gallon for gas isn't frightening to someone who makes $250k a year, though it is a horror story for anyone making $21k a year. Our representatives should be models of the people they represent.
Personally I'm sick of people running my life that haven't got a clue what it means to live like I do.
No politician should make over $35k a year and should not be allowed to have any other business or income other than what they earn from representing THE PEOPLE.

I might've gone off the deep end here, but you asked and I really don't think this future is that far off.

Rick, what was the price of 1 acre of land in 1960 vs. 1969 vs. 2009. 50 years got how much inflation exactly? 1 acre of land right here in the heart of rural america is $10k per acre and you'll be hard pressed to find it that cheap. 6.5 acres = a $65k mortgage and that is with nothing but trees on the land. This is for sale right now on the south side of town. If I spend every dime I earn on the land it would take me 6 years or more to pay for it, not counting all the taxes I already have to pay, or any other expenses.

economic collapse is coming. Hopefully I'll be ready.

[crashdive123]

Rick, what was the price of 1 acre of land in 1960 vs. 1969 vs. 2009. 50 years got how much inflation exactly? 1 acre of land right here in the heart of rural america is $10k per acre and you'll be hard pressed to find it that cheap. 6.5 acres = a $65k mortgage and that is with nothing but trees on the land. This is for sale right now on the south side of town. If I spend every dime I earn on the land it would take me 6 years or more to pay for it, not counting all the taxes I already have to pay, or any other expenses.It's probably unfair to address just one point of your post, but who says life is fair? Land, along with any other product, service, commodity, etc. is worth what people will pay for it. Here's a personal example - My MIL owns 54 acres. The land adjacent to hers sold for $16,000 per acre by a big developer (several hundred acres). The developer is not developing due to the economy. They may never develop - or at least not for a long time. Right now, she'd take $1000 an acre. No takers. My point is - stuff is worth what people will pay for it. Right now people are paying half of what they did for homes in my area (I thought they were way overpriced 5 years ago).

[Rick]

You guys are dealing in hypotheticals. What ifs? I can't and won't deal with that. It just isn't realistic or productive. I'm certainly not trying to hide the truth only offer my opinion as unpopular as it seams to be.

I look at past business cycles over the course of our existence, at current trends and then try to guess the future based on what I'm seeing. I do that for my own planning. I do that for my family.

Everyone wants to think the worst and that's okay. The fact is business cycles are...well...cyclical. This is no different than many many others that the country has faced. It's certainly deeper than most but then we were higher than most up cycles, too. This trough was inevitable and, personally, I took steps several years ago to place myself in as good a position as possible to be prepared for the down cycle. Experience it. Remember it because once we get through this it WILL happen again. It's just part of the cycle. And every time a down cycle hits everyone proclaims this one to be the big one. This is it. The end of the economy. What it is, is an excellent time to invest in the market because stocks are super cheap.

Will all the things come to pass that you posted? Who knows. I don't think unemployment will reach 15%. I don't think gas will hit $8 a gallon. Read YCCs comment. That's exactly what I was talking about. Those costs are passed along to the consumer and gas at that rate will have a dragging affect on the economy. I don't think the government will allow it for that reason. As I said, in the near term.

All of the things we've talked about before still apply. Limit your debt load, protect your credit rating because that translates to cheaper debt, be frugal in your expenditures and pay off any high interest debt you have like credit cards. If you do those things then you begin to see that regardless of the shape of the economy the only true indicator of your ability to weather it is the shape of YOUR economy. And, as Pal said, participate in the electoral process. You can make change from the inside.

[your_comforting_company]

Rick speaks the truth. we would all be wise to listen ;)

[Pal334]

Over all, I agree with Rick.
Personally the only difference (not really a disagrement) is : "What it is, is an excellent time to invest in the market because stocks are super cheap." I am staying with more conservative Government securities. I recognize the lower interest rates and growth potential (but has to date at least preserved the principle). But I have determined that as long as the morons on Wall Street play free and easy without significant penalty for misconduct I am staying out of stocks (just a personal decision)

[Winnie]

The different ways our two governments handle things fascinates me, Rick said your govt wouldn't allow petrol to reach $8 a gallon we're alredy paying nearly that much.
I agree these things are cyclical, but when some things go up, the price never seems to go down when things get better.

I was going to add something else, but it would have got political and I know the rules!

[BENESSE]

All of the things we've talked about before still apply. Limit your debt load, protect your credit rating because that translates to cheaper debt, be frugal in your expenditures and pay off any high interest debt you have like credit cards. If you do those things then you begin to see that regardless of the shape of the economy the only true indicator of your ability to weather it is the shape of YOUR economy. And, as Pal said, participate in the electoral process. You can make change from the inside.


For me it all really comes down to this paragraph.

If you follow the advice, you'll be in a better shape then if you don't.
And some sense of control over your life might help get you through the funk that's so easy to succumb to during these challenging times.

[Winnie]

Yep Bee, Rick hit the nail on the head. I have no debt, I was brought up to believe you got something when you could afford to pay for it outright. If you can't afford it, do without, just proves you don't need it anyway!

[Rick]

Pal - I have no disagreement with your statement at all. If you had said precious metals (although they are top dollar right now), land, rental property, antiques or just about anything I would agree. The key is to invest in something you believe will appreciate over time. Don't think of it as an investment in "something". Think of it as an investment in you. Government Securities vs. Stocks is one area the economy did NOT respond the way folks thought it would. When stocks are down government securities are generally high and vice versa. There is a cause and affect between the two....usually. This time around they each had a mind of their own.

If all my words were wasted ink because you are in financial trouble already then you need to consider that you have limited recourse. Increase income, decrease debt load or both. You have to figure out how that will occur. Multiple jobs, different jobs, cutting up your credit cards, selling a high expense luxury item like a boat or SUV. Only you can determine what is right for you but until you control your finances...they will control you. And you can start controlling them by putting yourself on a budget and following it.

As to the wisdom part, thanks but nothing magical about anything I said. Just real, common sense that really does work. Just back to basics stuff.

[Pal334]

Pal - I have no disagreement with your statement at all. If you had said precious metals (although they are top dollar right now), land, rental property, antiques or just about anything I would agree. The key is to invest in something you believe will appreciate over time. Don't think of it as an investment in "something". Think of it as an investment in you. Government Securities vs. Stocks is one area the economy did NOT respond the way folks thought it would. When stocks are down government securities are generally high and vice versa. There is a cause and affect between the two....usually. This time around they each had a mind of their own.

If all my words were wasted ink because you are in financial trouble already then you need to consider that you have limited recourse. Increase income, decrease debt load or both. You have to figure out how that will occur. Multiple jobs, different jobs, cutting up your credit cards, selling a high expense luxury item like a boat or SUV. Only you can determine what is right for you but until you control your finances...they will control you. And you can start controlling them by putting yourself on a budget and following it.

As to the wisdom part, thanks but nothing magical about anything I said. Just real, common sense that really does work. Just back to basics stuff.

You may be the only person with "financial advise" that I have listened to :)

Back to the basics, back to the basics and then when in doubt, yes,,,, go back to the basics

[2dumb2kwit]

The different ways our two governments handle things fascinates me, Rick said your govt wouldn't allow petrol to reach $8 a gallon we're alredy paying nearly that much.


You see....back when gas hit $4.00 a gal. here, people were ready to get their torches and pitchforks, and go after somebody. The polititians don't want people riled up like that, unless it's at the opposing political party. LOL

[2dumb2kwit]

I agree these things are cyclical, but when some things go up, the price never seems to go down when things get better.



See....we're not so different, after all.:innocent:

[SARKY]

Rick, I love ya man! But please get your head out of the sand. This is the direction we are headed and the people didn't do this although the people voted in the idiots who did do this to us and continue to vote them in. That is the part i don't get. CA. is broke, broke, BROKE the only politicians that can be held responsible are the democrats because they have been the ones in power for 2 decades here, but they are pointing fingers everywhere else.

[2dumb2kwit]

Rick, I love ya man! But please get your head out of the sand. This is the direction we are headed and the people didn't do this although the people voted in the idiots who did do this to us and continue to vote them in. That is the part i don't get. CA. is broke, broke, BROKE the only politicians that can be held responsible are the democrats because they have been the ones in power for 2 decades here, but they are pointing fingers everywhere else.

I love to blame polititians, but that's kinda like blaming rat, for being a rat. The thing that ticks me off, and scares me, at the same time, are the friggin' idiots that don't pay attention, and keep voting for these people/rats!

[rebel]

I think we're all in agreement about living within your budget. The point of the post was so see if folks were ready for a financial hardship and what kind of back-up they had in mind.

Pal: The 65% came from a Glen Beck show during this months elections in NJ. I don't know the formula used for the percentage. I was in Rah Way, NJ a few months ago and noticed the real estate taxes for homes were about a thousand a month. Yikes!

[Rick]

Sarky - You guys are really in a weird place. I don't mean the state just the way it operates. The state needs a re-look at Prop 13. If the state were still taxing corporations they way they did 20 years ago then they could wipe out about 1/3 of the deficit. Then there was the whole derivatives brouhaha that will likely tag along for a very long time. States are like people. They can only increase income or decrease debt load. The difference is they CAN increase income by raising taxes.

Don't let your view of the state's finances skew the overall economic picture. We're seeing solid signs of recovery. It ain't over but I think we've started back up. At least the worst is over.

[Rick]

Rebel - I had a co-worker that accepted a promotion in mid-state New York around 1995-ish. Because of the way his property was set up the area he lived in was taxed by two districts. His real estate taxes, in 1995, were $1100 a month. Crazy stuff.

[Rick]

I probably took your post off target. If I did, I apologize. My whole point was the financial hardships, for the most part, have probably peaked. We're moving into a time of healing and recovery.

[NightShade]

I'd like to start with Term Limits for all elected offices, the president is limited, the people who really make the decission are there for life.
I hear what your sayin' and used to feel the same way. But, my opinion has evolved over the years and now I think the biggest problem facing our way of life is the apathy of your everyday Joe Public... I believe term limits would only increase this as many people would say, "(so and so) sux, but he'll be outta there in a few years anyways.. So who cares"

The people need to pay attention and take back their government from the Corrupt politicians.... Just my opinion and I certainly could be wrong

[Pal334]

I think we're all in agreement about living within your budget. The point of the post was so see if folks were ready for a financial hardship and what kind of back-up they had in mind.

Pal: The 65% came from a Glen Beck show during this months elections in NJ. I don't know the formula used for the percentage. I was in Rah Way, NJ a few months ago and noticed the real estate taxes for homes were about a thousand a month. Yikes!

No problems, Glen Beck is not noted for his veracity anyways. I have friends paying that and more in property taxes. Yes it is very steep here as far as taxes. I stick it out because the wages are high also and I have myself in a good place financially/budget wise. While I am here I make it one of my favorite sports to "sweat" the piggy politicians. In a couple years will walk away to a no mortgage place in upstate NY and let this place go the way it will.

We can wring our hands an moan and groan,or get involved!!! EVERY SINGLE "Little" vote does count!!!!

[rebel]

I probably took your post off target. If I did, I apologize. My whole point was the financial hardships, for the most part, have probably peaked. We're moving into a time of healing and recovery.

No apology necessary and I hope you're right about the recovery.

[Pal334]

I hear what your sayin' and used to feel the same way. But, my opinion has evolved over the years and now I think the biggest problem facing our way of life is the apathy of your everyday Joe Public... I believe term limits would only increase this as many people would say, "(so and so) sux, but he'll be outta there in a few years anyways.. So who cares"

The people need to pay attention and take back their government from the Corrupt politicians.... Just my opinion and I certainly could be wrong

There you go. Right on the spot. Apathy is our worst enemy. If I get into a conversation along these lines in person, and the other person indicates that they do not vote, I terminate my part of the conversation and make sure they know how little value I place on the opinion of a whiner who does nothing. Yes, I know it is brutish, rude and perhaps even not nice, but as the kids would say "thats the way I roll" (sheesh, I love that kind of talk:) )

[rebel]

upstate NY

Have you eaten at the biker bar Dinosaur BBQ? It's excellent.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/dinosaur-bar-b-que-syracuse

[pocomoonskyeyes]

There you go. Right on the spot. Apathy is our worst enemy. If I get into a conversation along these lines in person, and the other person indicates that they do not vote, I terminate my part of the conversation and make sure they know how little value I place on the opinion of a whiner who does nothing. Yes, I know it is brutish, rude and perhaps even not nice, but as the kids would say "thats the way I roll" (sheesh, I love that kind of talk:) )

You know Pal I was one of those that wouldn't vote and complained about all that junk.... Then I found myself arguing something from your point of view and realized how hypocritical I was being. (BTW it had nothing to do with politics, but the line of argument was still the same) So I have had to "check" myself and do some rethinking on where I really stand. I just "heard your voice" saying the same things I was saying. Time to get off my duff, I guess.

[Pal334]

Have you eaten at the biker bar Dinosaur BBQ? It's excellent.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/dinosaur-bar-b-que-syracuse

No , I haven't. But I will put it on my "to do" list. Mmm,, is it really a biker bar?

[Pal334]

You know Pal I was one of those that wouldn't vote and complained about all that junk.... Then I found myself arguing something from your point of view and realized how hypocritical I was being. (BTW it had nothing to do with politics, but the line of argument was still the same) So I have had to "check" myself and do some rethinking on where I really stand. I just "heard your voice" saying the same things I was saying. Time to get off my duff, I guess.

aaah,, I have been able to touch someone who was in the wilderness :) I also mention to folks "Your children and Grand children are depending on you"

[Rick]

I think the biggest problem facing our way of life is the apathy of your everyday Joe Public

You, my friend, are squarely on target. I agree 100%.


So I have had to "check" myself and do some rethinking on where I really stand.

Actually, an excellent and beneficial exercise for everyone. Re-examining your own position and the position of your dissenters is an excellent way to benchmark your core beliefs.

[SARKY]

Rick, one of the local talk shows requested from the state a list of all the bueracracies in the state govt. The redundancy is criminal! As is the BS retirement plan for the state workers. They also treat prison inmates better than our military is treated. Hell, a death row inmate got a heart transplant to the tune of about 1 millon dollars!!!???? WHY?????
These idiots can't balance the budget of the 8th largest economy in the WORLD!!!!! It is not a matter of money comming in, it's a matter of these morons spending it like drunken sailors!

[Rick]

I believe everything you just said. I've read a number of reports about the prison health care situation. Frankly, I don't understand it. On the outside it's okay to die from a heart ailment but not on the inside. Weird.

[Sarge47]

Gas will continue to climb and so will everything else. Nothing is being done for it not to increase in price. Food prices will also climb. Here's the thing that's being overlooked here: The law of "Supply & Demand." It wasn't that long ago that we were paying over $4 a gallon for gas, yet, today we're far below that; why? because people QUIT BUYING WHEN THE PRICES GO UP! Then the sellers will either have to warehouse their goods or sell it at a lower price. Let's look at food, just because something goes up in price doesn't guarantee that Americans will go along with it. Recently the State of Illinois enacted a "Sin Tax" on any food product with sugar, including Twinkies! I recently bought a whole box of Twinkies & made like Rick, stuffing my face with them...cost? $1! It was from the "day-old" bread store; seems like folks weren't buying them near as much as they used to! 2 litre bottles of Pepsi Cola...$.69 each. When prices go up, sales go down, and the merchants have to do something to keep their products moving. :cool2:

[Boker]

Prison will provide all that, plus free cable if you can afford the TV.



I mentioned prison as a valid retirement option on the first page. :sneaky2:

[crashdive123]

Since you've mentioned it, and quoted yourself twice now, is that in your future plans?

[rebel]

No , I haven't. But I will put it on my "to do" list. Mmm,, is it really a biker bar?

It used to be more of a biker place. With the popularity, it's a mixed crowd.

[owl_girl]

pocomoonskyeyes did you have a vehicle when you were homeless?

[Boker]

Since you've mentioned it, and quoted yourself twice now, is that in your future plans?



Actually, yeah. That's why I'm nice to Ken.

[owl_girl]

im saving up so hopefully when it gets that bad i will be in the middle of nowhere and self sufficient. i hope i have enough time though. i have been homeless also so i know i could pull through it.

[rebel]

Actually, yeah. That's why I'm nice to Ken.

As a guy who used to work at a state prison, you're not going to like it. What's your plan for getting in?

[crashdive123]

...and if you decide you don't like the landlord, your plan for getting out?

[owl_girl]

you could always rob a bank so if it fails you still win

[Camp10]

you could always rob a bank so if it fails you still win

That's a great plan!! If I ever decide to break into jail, I'll be sure to try that!

[crashdive123]

I hear tell that some bank robbers end up breaking into the morgue.

[Sarge47]

I heard about a coyote that broke into a Honda! :sneaky2::innocent::online2long:

[Camp10]

I hear tell that some bank robbers end up breaking into the morgue.

Thats just because politicians dont like the competition

[Boker]

As a guy who used to work at a state prison, you're not going to like it. What's your plan for getting in?



I worked in corrections for 3 years going through college.


I'm leaning toward a Federal Retirement. White collar, non-violent. That should give me a pool and internet access. :innocent:

[pocomoonskyeyes]

pocomoonskyeyes did you have a vehicle when you were homeless?

No. No vehicle at all. The ex took it with her. It was all by foot, until I got a bike. Salvation Army had a high dollar,High quality bike for like $15. Fortunately I had $20. Found some chain on the side of the road and a super cheap lock is all I had securing it when I was away from it. I think the lock cost $1. Total investment for a $500-$600 bike about $18. The speed I could move and the increase in range....priceless.

[pocomoonskyeyes]

I worked in corrections for 3 years going through college.


I'm leaning toward a Federal Retirement. White collar, non-violent. That should give me a pool and internet access. :innocent:

Boker you could have that while being homeless... Jes sayin':innocent:
You know this could be a case of "The grass is greener over the Septic Tank" It might have looked great when you were going home every day, eating what you want, coming and going as you want. But I Guarantee it ain't all you think it is.

[rebel]

I worked in corrections for 3 years going through college.

Same, same.


I'm leaning toward a Federal Retirement. White collar, non-violent. That should give me a pool and internet access.


...and no integrity. (Who am I to throw stones).

[BENESSE]

I worked in corrections for 3 years going through college.


I'm leaning toward a Federal Retirement. White collar, non-violent. That should give me a pool and internet access. :innocent:


Do it soon!
With any luck, we'll get sheriff Joe on the case real soon and before you can say WTF! you'll be wearing pink panties under your stripped prison uniform, living in a tent and busting hump 24/7.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

Back to the thread.....

For me I beleive it would get easier! The work I do in a day amazes me!

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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фоль (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1382369)(189 (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1499102)Loui (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1545373)Лева (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/1690672)Gust (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/655783)Walt (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/913533)Швар (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1209241)возь (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1421793)Wind (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/1458977)Зубк (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/517579)Галк (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/884189)Nana (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/933017)Come (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/1078731)о�тр (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1401466)Fend (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/1556662)
Greg (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/523264)Тока (http://rearchain.ru/shop/879800)bach (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/918861)Орло (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/1654867)Wind (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1661638)ХаÑ�и (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1668262)Соде (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1689816)КоÑ�Ñ‚ (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1714202)Соде (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1773655)авто (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/1777345)Welc (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1822796)ПуÑ�Ñ‚ (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1828791)Коче (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1856120)Ð*оÑ�Ñ� (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1881816)Виха (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1918575)
Ð�ефе (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1931045)печа (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1950309)Соло (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1963930)Robe (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1973469)Ð*уде (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1462828)Коле (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1497927)Дени (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/1568292)Clau (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/1653805)Певц (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/1679752)Фарк (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/1695836)Ritm (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/1193)Ritm (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/1193)Ritm (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/1193)нача (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/487898)пиÑ�а (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/1762280)
Thom (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/1773213)Kare (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/1776399)Chri (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/491822)Cock (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/505539)У�ма (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1855630)�емь (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1901827)Миши (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/1963931)Wind (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/881178)�нци (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/926638)�екр (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/986104)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Габр (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/986632)Requ (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/488374)

[yellowcab]

инфо (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)инфо (http://cottagenet.ru)инфо (http://eyesvision.ru)инфо (http://eyesvisions.com)инфо (http://factoringfee.ru)инфо (http://filmzones.ru)инфо (http://gadwall.ru)инфо (http://gaffertape.ru)инфо (http://gageboard.ru)инфо (http://gagrule.ru)инфо (http://gallduct.ru)инфо (http://galvanometric.ru)инфо (http://gangforeman.ru)инфо (http://gangwayplatform.ru)инфо (http://garbagechute.ru)
инфо (http://gardeningleave.ru)инфо (http://gascautery.ru)инфо (http://gashbucket.ru)инфо (http://gasreturn.ru)инфо (http://gatedsweep.ru)инфо (http://gaugemodel.ru)инфо (http://gaussianfilter.ru)инфо (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru)инфо (http://geartreating.ru)инфо (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)инфо (http://generalprovisions.ru)инфо (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)инфо (http://geriatricnurse.ru)инфо (http://getintoaflap.ru)инфо (http://getthebounce.ru)
инфо (http://habeascorpus.ru)инфо (http://habituate.ru)инфо (http://hackedbolt.ru)инфо (http://hackworker.ru)инфо (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)инфо (http://haemagglutinin.ru)инфо (http://hailsquall.ru)инфо (http://hairysphere.ru)инфо (http://halforderfringe.ru)инфо (http://halfsiblings.ru)инфо (http://hallofresidence.ru)инфо (http://haltstate.ru)инфо (http://handcoding.ru)инфо (http://handportedhead.ru)инфо (http://handradar.ru)
инфо (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)инфо (http://hangonpart.ru)инфо (http://haphazardwinding.ru)инфо (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)инфо (http://hardasiron.ru)инфо (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)инфо (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)инфо (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)инфо (http://hatchholddown.ru)инфо (http://haveafinetime.ru)инфо (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)инфо (http://headregulator.ru)инфо (http://heartofgold.ru)инфо (http://heatageingresistance.ru)инфо (http://heatinggas.ru)
инфо (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)инфо (http://jacketedwall.ru)инфо (http://japanesecedar.ru)инфо (http://jibtypecrane.ru)инфо (http://jobabandonment.ru)инфо (http://jobstress.ru)инфо (http://jogformation.ru)инфо (http://jointcapsule.ru)инфо (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)инфо (http://journallubricator.ru)инфо (http://juicecatcher.ru)инфо (http://junctionofchannels.ru)инфо (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)инфо (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)инфо (http://kaposidisease.ru)
инфо (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)инфо (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)инфо (http://kentishglory.ru)инфо (http://kerbweight.ru)инфо (http://kerrrotation.ru)инфо (http://keymanassurance.ru)инфо (http://keyserum.ru)инфо (http://kickplate.ru)инфо (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)инфо (http://kilowattsecond.ru)инфо (http://kingweakfish.ru)инйо (http://kinozones.ru)инфо (http://kleinbottle.ru)инфо (http://kneejoint.ru)инфо (http://knifesethouse.ru)
инфо (http://knockonatom.ru)инфо (http://knowledgestate.ru)инфо (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)инфо (http://labeledgraph.ru)инфо (http://laborracket.ru)инфо (http://labourearnings.ru)инфо (http://labourleasing.ru)инфо (http://laburnumtree.ru)инфо (http://lacingcourse.ru)инфо (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)инфо (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)инфо (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)инфо (http://ladletreatediron.ru)инфо (http://laggingload.ru)инфо (http://laissezaller.ru)
инфо (http://lambdatransition.ru)инфо (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)инфо (http://lammasshoot.ru)инфо (http://lamphouse.ru)инфо (http://lancecorporal.ru)инфо (http://lancingdie.ru)инфо (http://landingdoor.ru)инфо (http://landmarksensor.ru)инфо (http://landreform.ru)инфо (http://landuseratio.ru)инфо (http://languagelaboratory.ru)инфо (http://largeheart.ru)инфо (http://lasercalibration.ru)инфо (http://laserlens.ru)инфо (http://laserpulse.ru)

[yellowcab]

инфо (http://laterevent.ru)инфо (http://latrinesergeant.ru)инфо (http://layabout.ru)инфо (http://leadcoating.ru)инфо (http://leadingfirm.ru)инфо (http://learningcurve.ru)инфо (http://leaveword.ru)инфо (http://machinesensible.ru)инфо (http://magneticequator.ru)инфо (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)инфо (http://mailinghouse.ru)инфо (http://majorconcern.ru)инфо (http://mammasdarling.ru)инфо (http://managerialstaff.ru)инфо (http://manipulatinghand.ru)
инфо (http://manualchoke.ru)инфо (http://medinfobooks.ru)инфо (http://mp3lists.ru)инфо (http://nameresolution.ru)инфо (http://naphtheneseries.ru)инфо (http://narrowmouthed.ru)инфо (http://nationalcensus.ru)инфо (http://naturalfunctor.ru)инфо (http://navelseed.ru)инфо (http://neatplaster.ru)инфо (http://necroticcaries.ru)инфо (http://negativefibration.ru)инфо (http://neighbouringrights.ru)инфо (http://objectmodule.ru)инфо (http://observationballoon.ru)
инфо (http://obstructivepatent.ru)инфо (http://oceanmining.ru)инфо (http://octupolephonon.ru)инфо (http://offlinesystem.ru)инфо (http://offsetholder.ru)инфо (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)инфо (http://onesticket.ru)инфо (http://packedspheres.ru)инфо (http://pagingterminal.ru)инфо (http://palatinebones.ru)инфо (http://palmberry.ru)инфо (http://papercoating.ru)инфо (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)инфо (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)инфо (http://parkingbrake.ru)
инфо (http://partfamily.ru)инфо (http://partialmajorant.ru)инфо (http://quadrupleworm.ru)инфо (http://qualitybooster.ru)инфо (http://quasimoney.ru)инфо (http://quenchedspark.ru)инфо (http://quodrecuperet.ru)инфо (http://rabbetledge.ru)инфо (http://radialchaser.ru)инфо (http://radiationestimator.ru)инфо (http://railwaybridge.ru)инфо (http://randomcoloration.ru)инфо (http://rapidgrowth.ru)инфо (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)инфо (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
инфо (http://readingmagnifier.ru)инфо (http://rearchain.ru)инфо (http://recessioncone.ru)инфо (http://recordedassignment.ru)инфо (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)инфо (http://redemptionvalue.ru)инфо (http://reducingflange.ru)инфо (http://referenceantigen.ru)инфо (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)инфо (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)инфо (http://safedrilling.ru)инфо (http://sagprofile.ru)инфо (http://salestypelease.ru)инфо (http://samplinginterval.ru)инфо (http://satellitehydrology.ru)
инфо (http://scarcecommodity.ru)инфо (http://scrapermat.ru)инфо (http://screwingunit.ru)инфо (http://seawaterpump.ru)инфо (http://secondaryblock.ru)инфо (http://secularclergy.ru)инфо (http://seismicefficiency.ru)инфо (http://selectivediffuser.ru)инфо (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)инфо (http://semifinishmachining.ru)инфо (http://spicetrade.ru)инфо (http://spysale.ru)инфо (http://stungun.ru)инфо (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)инфо (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
инфо (http://tamecurve.ru)инфо (http://tapecorrection.ru)инфо (http://tappingchuck.ru)инфо (http://taskreasoning.ru)инфо (http://technicalgrade.ru)инфо (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)инфо (http://telescopicdamper.ru)инфо (http://temperateclimate.ru)инфо (http://temperedmeasure.ru)инфо (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)инфо (http://ultramaficrock.ru)инфо (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)

[yellowcab]

нача (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/4760)246.5 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/168)Bett (http://eyesvision.ru)numb (http://eyesvisions.com)Ваку (http://factoringfee.ru/t/1383133)Соми (http://filmzones.ru/t/1369421)Ефим (http://gadwall.ru/t/1375598)Тони (http://gaffertape.ru/t/1249246)Remi (http://gageboard.ru/t/1100602)Mika (http://gagrule.ru/t/1039991)Пушк (http://gallduct.ru/t/1350774)�гно (http://galvanometric.ru/t/1567120)Ка�� (http://gangforeman.ru/t/1568515)Daga (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/1702371)Gyps (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1552735)
Пушк (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/1386250)Ð*азу (http://gascautery.ru/t/1626628)Oetk (http://gashbucket.ru/t/1491837)Гуры (http://gasreturn.ru/t/1578387)Бого (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/1369563)Ð�ндр (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1578370)хоро (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/1708188)Ð�лек (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/1369745)Hule (http://geartreating.ru/t/1372287)СуÑ�л (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/1353227)Ð�ндр (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/1380196)This (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/1552230)DAXX (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/1551969)Cora (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/1400217)Харо (http://getthebounce.ru/t/1224983)
Земп (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/1377957)чита (http://habituate.ru/t/1352712)�льт (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/1328111)Соде (http://hackworker.ru/t/1639479)Миха (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/1300667)Фель (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/1352140)Шаба (http://hailsquall.ru/t/1369293)Herm (http://hairysphere.ru/t/1370005)Шеле (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/1370545)возр (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/1531676)Alex (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/1348998)ди�п (http://haltstate.ru/t/1370751)Гу�е (http://handcoding.ru/t/1400140)Arma (http://handportedhead.ru/t/1698313)во�п (http://handradar.ru/t/1390316)
Толч (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/1439114)Бахр (http://hangonpart.ru/t/1351008)Яков (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/1348615)�лек (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/950210)�лек (http://hardasiron.ru/t/949410)Семе (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/1224643)Ягод (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/1328651)Яньл (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/1245150)и�ку (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/1385073)Roxy (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/1548032)thes (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/1547310)Eleg (http://headregulator.ru/t/1548079)кон� (http://heartofgold.ru/t/1644645)Сева (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/1353153)Захи (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1567098)
Bert (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/1247089)Гаче (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/838241)Blan (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/1201664)ПерÑ� (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/1691295)Пове (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/1224415)Alex (http://jobstress.ru/t/1348957)Грум (http://jogformation.ru/t/1246125)Amer (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/1375859)Holl (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1296443)Сыры (http://journallubricator.ru/t/1386821)Ð*дуа (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/1286056)Капи (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/1253499)наци (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/1240804)Fall (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/1189312)Майл (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/1224840)
Make (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/1182166)го�у (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/1221276)книг (http://kentishglory.ru/t/1250633)Susa (http://kerbweight.ru/t/1314811)Попо (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/1245346)Жаби (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/1049375)XIII (http://keyserum.ru/t/1328763)Intr (http://kickplate.ru/t/1656899)Side (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/1519295)Benj (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/1256389)King (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/1688557)выпу (http://kinozones.ru/film/9656)��ее (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/1375032)Char (http://kneejoint.ru/t/1380457)Mess (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1757673)
XIII (http://knockonatom.ru/t/1376324)Лей� (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/1385263)Zone (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/1549559)Соде (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1469838)Zone (http://laborracket.ru/t/1549976)дати (http://labourearnings.ru/t/1584246)Zone (http://labourleasing.ru/t/1549480)Aldr (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/1232818)�али (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1345894)иллю (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/1372434)�вто (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1556250)ре�п (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/1244597)Zone (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/1193014)Гали (http://laggingload.ru/t/1228939)Кузн (http://laissezaller.ru/t/1250629)
Poul (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/1223652)Овча (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/1321464)Zone (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1783764)XVII (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1327980)Ð�тее (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1219935)Zone (http://lancingdie.ru/t/1187511)Zone (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1190080)Zone (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1711583)Jean (http://landreform.ru/t/1295882)Ð�лие (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1228644)Ð*адз (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1353085)голо (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1159503)хоро (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/151829)Scou (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1561)баро (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/588676)

[yellowcab]

Воро (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1178424)Cata (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/452799)Прои (http://layabout.ru/shop/99425)Wind (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/20400)Выго (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/53944)�бор (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/99970)обла (http://leaveword.ru/shop/144625)Fier (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/54208)Ponn (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/96988)М-53 (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/144656)14-0 (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/46797)Book (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/266518)круг (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/145263)Wall (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/159056)Unde (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/612727)
Диам (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/153849)Flex (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/1458)Regg (http://mp3lists.ru/item/9128)Поль (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/143223)деко (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/103703)Edit (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/305070)Древ (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/145656)�зык (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/11455)�зык (http://navelseed.ru/shop/100371)Patr (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/123089)Wind (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/24843)Inte (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/175072)Кита (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/18325)Dyna (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/106650)Bosc (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/122604)
Bork (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/97903)Plaz (http://oceanmining.ru)упак (http://octupolephonon.ru)Орло (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/147246)Галк (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/150926)Кузн (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/30609)Ð�ноп (http://onesticket.ru/shop/333198)Fant (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/578663)Ñ�луж (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/585417)КонÑ� (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/200728)Ever (http://palmberry.ru/shop/204052)(184 (http://papercoating.ru/shop/579828)ЛитÐ* (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/684062)изоб (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1165457)Juli (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1165528)
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