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Hillmann
10-30-2009, 10:27 PM
In going through the older post I see that some of you shoot blackpowder, I am wondering if anyone here shoots smoothbore flintlocks.

FVR
10-30-2009, 10:45 PM
Naaaaa........I'm strickly a perc. rifle kind'a guy.

Plan on building a trade gun...........oneday. Both TOW and Sitting Fox have great supplies.

Hillmann
10-30-2009, 10:55 PM
Any expereance with smoothbores?

FVR
10-30-2009, 11:09 PM
Why, you having problems with a smoothy?

Beo
10-30-2009, 11:35 PM
I shoot smoothbore flinter, got a French Tulle that I love, named it "Jeremiah" after one of my mostest favorite movies, Frank you know which one that is.
The specs are:
Barrel- .62 cal., 44 1/2 inch long, oct. to round with 2 wedding bands.
Hardware - brass, with wood rammer.
OA Length: 62 1/2 inches

Nothing better than a good smoke pole to take some deer down.
Beo,

gryffynklm
10-30-2009, 11:54 PM
Hi hillman & beo, I shot a 1777 french Charleville 68 cal. smooth bore. Have you gone hunting with it? Accuracy is sort of iffy. At 250 ft I'm about 75 % at a pie plate. I wouldn't feel comfortable hunting with it. I haven't fired buck and ball so i don't if that would change my attitude about hunting with it.

Hillmann
10-31-2009, 01:10 AM
I have a 20 gauge sxs that I have used for small game, #6 lead or#2 steal, that I am hopping to use for deer hunting. I was wondering how you load your smoothbores with roundballs.
PRB?
PRB with Cow?
PRB with a coushion wad?
PRB with a powder wad and cushion wad?
Round ball with a cushion wad and over shot wad?
Round ball with a powder wad, cushion wad and overshot wad?
Round ball with cow and an overshot wad?
There are just so many ways to load it that I figured what gives you the best accuracy?
Also any sugestions on how to cure a flinch when the left barrel goes off, other than lots of practice?

FVR
10-31-2009, 08:21 AM
LOL.

You left out using lubed maxi balls.

Looks like you're in for some range time for testing.


Beo, maybe oneday I will be able to get out with my smokepole for deer. It's always something.

gryffynklm
10-31-2009, 10:48 AM
Hillman, I have only used cotton patch spit soaked. That may be my problem. I didn't realize there were that many options. I've never had the opportunity to experiment with loading options.

Hillmann
10-31-2009, 04:00 PM
Here are the loads I use most often.
Small Game
80 grains FFG, .125 overpowder wad, .500 cushion wad, 80 grains(by volume) #6 lead, and 1/3 of a cushion wad for an overshot wad.

Waterfoul
80 grains FFG,.125 overpowder wad, .500 cushion wad, a shot cup ment for reloading 20gauge shells(sometimes I cut off the bottom part that is ment to cushion it, sometimes not), enough #4 steal shot to fill cup, and 1/3 of a cushion wad for an overshot wad. The reason for the shot cup is to prevent contact with the steal shot and barrel.

Roundball
80 grains FFG, and .600 PRB lubed with crisco.

Roundball(I use this one more often)
80 grains FFG, .125 overpowder wad, .500 cushion wad, and .600 PRB lubed with crisco.

All loads are primed with FFG(it is just easyer and dosen't seem to make any diffrence with speed of ignition) and all cushion wads are lubed with crisco.


I would like to try replacing the wads with cow with a PRB and see what the results are.

SARKY
10-31-2009, 05:55 PM
One of my 3 black powder rifle is a flinty but it isn't a smoothie

Beo
10-31-2009, 08:45 PM
real simple, I make an old fashioned paper cartridge: turm the paper around a dow rod, fold in bottom of paper, place the round ball in the bottom and twist shut, dump in the 90 grains of 2f, fold the top over and smear a little bees wax on it to keep it closed. Or dump the 2f down the barrel, place round ball in pillow ticking lubed patches, and shove down barrel (usually I keep six in my bullet block around my neck.) fill flashpan and then shoot... fishhhh-Kaboooooom!!!!! In the 10 ring. :)

Hillmann
10-31-2009, 10:38 PM
What do you get for accuracy when loaded like that?

I understand that the reason for using cow (cream of wheat) or and overpowder and cushion wad is to seal the gasses in behind the bullet and prevent the round ball from being deformed.
When using the paper cartridges do you use any lube?

I tried making nitrated paper cartridges containing shot and after the first shot I was unable to reload because of fouling wasen't softened by the greased wad.

How often to you swab the barrel?

Hillmann
11-02-2009, 10:46 PM
Beowouf,
Do you cast your own roundballs. Can wheelweights be used safely in a smoothbore?
Have you ever tried casting your own shot?

pocomoonskyeyes
11-02-2009, 10:58 PM
Since you are talking about Flintlocks. I'm curious as to how big of a piece of flint you need. Dime size, quarter size?? Never even seen one except museums.

Hillmann
11-02-2009, 11:18 PM
The left barrel takes 5/8 x 3/4 the left takes 5/8 x 5/8 and that is fairley small for a long gun. Here is a website that shows them full sized.


http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(rornc155x3lckyzvzhyv3145))/categories/tableList.aspx?catID=2&subID=29&styleID=83

hunter63
11-03-2009, 06:38 PM
I'm in the market for a T/C Hawken flinter, if any one comes across one.

aflineman
12-24-2011, 01:02 PM
My new (to me) Trade Gun. Smoothbore flint .62 caliber (20ga). Shoots nice so far. We are heade out today to look for some late season Grouse.
7139

hunter63
12-24-2011, 01:06 PM
Very cool, thank's for posting.

crashdive123
12-24-2011, 04:35 PM
Very cool indeed. Good luck today.

Mischief
12-24-2011, 06:52 PM
Heck yes ,My favorite is a .62 smoothbore.The others are for collecting dust.

aflineman
01-01-2012, 04:17 PM
This thing is pretty darn nice for ringing in the New Year. Had the Turkeys rosting in the trees making all sorts of noise. :D

Sparky93
01-01-2012, 04:55 PM
Are there any flint locks that aren't terribly expensive? I looked at some a while back and most were over $1000! Can you shoot shot for fowl and small game out of a rifled barrel, I have always presumed the answer to be no, but I have never known for sure.

TresMon
01-01-2012, 05:07 PM
You can shoot shot out of riflings- but it's a scattergun indeed. "Pattern" if you can call it that spreads fast.

Cool thread. Even going older school- I have always wanted to take a deer with a match lock.

kyratshooter
01-01-2012, 07:02 PM
Are there any flint locks that aren't terribly expensive? I looked at some a while back and most were over $1000! Can you shoot shot for fowl and small game out of a rifled barrel, I have always presumed the answer to be no, but I have never known for sure.

The cheapest way to go is buy a traditional sidelock ML of the CVA or Traditions brand that had a drum and nipple that screws in the side and buy a replacement flint lock for it. Just remember that you can buy a lot of caps for the cost of a new lock. Caps run $22/1000 and it would take 100 pounds of powder to use that many up. That is a lot of shooting with a ML.

I have one gun that I bored and reamed smooth by hand. It just takes some time and knowledge. You might even have access to the needed equipment at the university "hobby shop" or in the engineering department.

Just remember that the gunsmiths that made the origionals did every step by hand with some very primitive tools and made some great works of art.

As far as shooting shot from the rifled ML barrel. all modern shooters will say NO! but you are not dealing with a modern gun. The ML has a slower twist to start with. Where a modern pistol or rifle might have a twist of 1/9 your ML will have a twist of 1/48. Mine have even slower twist for use with patched round balls and they go 1/66-1/70. That means when you look down the ML barrel the rifling is almost straight. You are not even getting a full turn in a 28" barrel!

If you use the paper cartridges already noted here you will have very little damage either to the rifling or to the pattern of the shot.

Sparky93
01-01-2012, 09:13 PM
So could I shoot shot out of my TC hawkens .50, and can you get paper .50 cartridges?

aflineman
01-06-2012, 12:32 PM
So could I shoot shot out of my TC hawkens .50, and can you get paper .50 cartridges?
You can make paper "cartridges". Here is how one person tackled it:
http://www.muzzleloadingshotguns.com/articles/makingmuzzleloadingshotcartridges

I have been playing with a (for lack of a better term) a paper shot cup in my new smoothbore, and don't see why it would not work in a rifle. I just pack my shot in a tube made from gluing parchment paper around a 5/8" brass rod (for 20ga). Paper is then cut into tubes and the ends are tied with string or thread. Tie one end, fill with shot, and tie the other. I weigh 65grain (by volume) of shot (this amount shoots well in this smoothbore), and then make my shot cups just a hair over the shot weight (to account for the weight of the paper tube). I have not played with it enough to be sure it is really worth the time in my smooth bore, but the concept should work (at least enough to be an interesting experiment) in a muzzle loading rifle.

Sparky93
01-06-2012, 12:34 PM
You can make paper "cartridges". Here is how one person tackled it:
http://www.muzzleloadingshotguns.com/articles/makingmuzzleloadingshotcartridges

I have been playing with a (for lack of a better term) a paper shot cup in my new smoothbore, and don't see why it would not work in a rifle. I just pack my shot in a tube made from gluing parchment paper around a 5/8" brass rod (for 20ga). Paper is then cut into tubes and the ends are tied with string or thread. Tie one end, fill with shot, and tie the other. I weigh 65grain (by volume) of shot (this amount shoots well in this smoothbore), and then make my shot cups just a hair over the shot weight (to account for the weight of the paper tube). I have not played with it enough to be sure it is really worth the time in my smooth bore, but the concept should work (at least enough to be an interesting experiment) in a muzzle loading rifle.

Okay, I get it!

Thaddius Bickerton
03-23-2012, 02:46 PM
If they still sell it at the drug store, get a small bottle of saltpeter. take hot tap water and disolve as much as you can in it and then pour the super saturated solution into a small pan and soak your "paper" in it then set the paper out to dry. this makes "nitrated paper" that will burn up. (it is what the paper cartridges for the old percussion cap sharps type rifles are made out of. Be sure to blow down the barrel after each shot to make sure any lingering spark does not touch off the next powder charge and for goodness sakes keep your head off the muzzle when you pour the powder down.

I have been told that cigarette rolling papers are nitrated papers that you can use forming the paper cartridges also. Not sure about that however soaking the papers would be one source of paper to use I suppose.

I have been building / shooting black powder rifles and pistols since 1973 and have developed a lot of different ideas about them, some from research into older writings, and some from experimentation. They are a ton of fun, and fit into my enjoyment of using old time things in my woods loafing.

I have a 50 cal tenn poor boy rifle that is a flintlock, and a repro of a brown bess musket that I have used with shot and ball. The brown bess only has a front blade kind of like a 12 gauge shotgun, and I tend to treat it like a single barrel shotty. Usually I can get a punken ball to hit a paper plate at 50 yards, and I would consider it for hunting with about that range. using shot I can hit out to similar shotgun ranges.

A well tuned and properly loaded flintlock has a short lock time and it isn't a crack boom thing like many believe.

Typical flints are around 1/2 x 1/2 inch up to maybe 1 inch x one inch. I keep a pliers to break a clean edge on mine. I have knapped some, but have a sack of them from dixie gun works that will probably last my lifetime.

I use pure lead to cast my BP ammo, but in a smooth bore I would think that wheel weight lead could be used even though the brinnel hardness will be higher than pure lead. I would probably only use them in a rifled barrel if that was all I had and I HAD to shoot for some reason. Lead is cheap and I have a lot of it out in sons metal shop so have only used wheel weights to cast boolets for my cartridge reloads.

For keeping a firearm firing for generations, simple hand tools and home made powder and ball, I would think that a flintlock was the highest tech most could sustain. Making even one percussion cap along with the mercuric fulminate to put in it would be difficult and the primary explosive that mercuric fulminate is is something that is at best touchy and can really make a mess of you if handled improperly.

That said I recall reading in an old mtn man's journal that when he was asked why he switched to the new fangled percussion over flint when he would be away from resupply he just said he planned to carry a hat full of caps.

A percussion hawkin style loaded with 70 grains of BP and a cast boolet around 400 - 500 grains duplicates the charge of the 50/70 sharps cartridge and will perform similarly just as 70 grains over a 400 grain 45 caliber boolet duplicates the 45/70 bp cartridges. Just food for thought.

I have often thought that a "trade gun" in 72 caliber would be a very versital flintlock / woods loafing rifle.

Sparky93
03-23-2012, 03:19 PM
If they still sell it at the drug store, get a small bottle of saltpeter. take hot tap water and disolve as much as you can in it and then pour the super saturated solution into a small pan and soak your "paper" in it then set the paper out to dry. this makes "nitrated paper" that will burn up. (it is what the paper cartridges for the old percussion cap sharps type rifles are made out of. Be sure to blow down the barrel after each shot to make sure any lingering spark does not touch off the next powder charge and for goodness sakes keep your head off the muzzle when you pour the powder down.

I have been told that cigarette rolling papers are nitrated papers that you can use forming the paper cartridges also. Not sure about that however soaking the papers would be one source of paper to use I suppose.

I have been building / shooting black powder rifles and pistols since 1973 and have developed a lot of different ideas about them, some from research into older writings, and some from experimentation. They are a ton of fun, and fit into my enjoyment of using old time things in my woods loafing.

I have a 50 cal tenn poor boy rifle that is a flintlock, and a repro of a brown bess musket that I have used with shot and ball. The brown bess only has a front blade kind of like a 12 gauge shotgun, and I tend to treat it like a single barrel shotty. Usually I can get a punken ball to hit a paper plate at 50 yards, and I would consider it for hunting with about that range. using shot I can hit out to similar shotgun ranges.

A well tuned and properly loaded flintlock has a short lock time and it isn't a crack boom thing like many believe.

Typical flints are around 1/2 x 1/2 inch up to maybe 1 inch x one inch. I keep a pliers to break a clean edge on mine. I have knapped some, but have a sack of them from dixie gun works that will probably last my lifetime.

I use pure lead to cast my BP ammo, but in a smooth bore I would think that wheel weight lead could be used even though the brinnel hardness will be higher than pure lead. I would probably only use them in a rifled barrel if that was all I had and I HAD to shoot for some reason. Lead is cheap and I have a lot of it out in sons metal shop so have only used wheel weights to cast boolets for my cartridge reloads.

For keeping a firearm firing for generations, simple hand tools and home made powder and ball, I would think that a flintlock was the highest tech most could sustain. Making even one percussion cap along with the mercuric fulminate to put in it would be difficult and the primary explosive that mercuric fulminate is is something that is at best touchy and can really make a mess of you if handled improperly.

That said I recall reading in an old mtn man's journal that when he was asked why he switched to the new fangled percussion over flint when he would be away from resupply he just said he planned to carry a hat full of caps.

A percussion hawkin style loaded with 70 grains of BP and a cast boolet around 400 - 500 grains duplicates the charge of the 50/70 sharps cartridge and will perform similarly just as 70 grains over a 400 grain 45 caliber boolet duplicates the 45/70 bp cartridges. Just food for thought.

I have often thought that a "trade gun" in 72 caliber would be a very versital flintlock / woods loafing rifle.

Thanks for the info, some rep sent your way!