No. It's ME!

[rebel]

Again, the ME's have hit a wall...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091023/ap_on_re_us/us_balloon_boy_search

[Rick]

I think they should put mom and dad on the plane with those two Northwest pilots that can't seem to figure out where the airport is and turn them all loose. Maybe they'll end up in Canada and we won't have to deal with them anymore. The kids deserve better parents, that's for sure.

[crashdive123]

Funny how the cockpit voice recorder for that Northwest flight had the older recorder that only stored the last 30 minutes of data and they landed 45 minutes after finally responding to calls.

[rebel]

We'll have to wait and see before making any judgments. I've seen the avionics be a little uncooperative.

[crashdive123]

Not judging, just wondering how a pilot and co-pilot, both experienced, both qualified flight instructors, overshoot an airport by 150 miles.

[rebel]

Don't believe the media. Do they get things right?

[crashdive123]

Some do, some do not. Nobody is contradicting that assertion though. Have you heard something different?

[rebel]

Some do, some do not. Nobody is contradicting that assertion though. Have you heard something different?

No sir. I've just found that it pays to wait and see what the facts are. 150 miles seems like a lot but, when you're going 8 miles a minute, 100 to 160 miles with a problem can go by quickly.

[crashdive123]

Agreed, but the reported story that they were distracted by an argument?

[rebel]

Funny how the cockpit voice recorder for that Northwest flight had the older recorder that only stored the last 30 minutes of data and they landed 45 minutes after finally responding to calls.

That right there doesn't make sense. It records on a continuous loop every thirty minutes, regardless of radio transmission.

[crashdive123]

It had an older cockpit voice recorder that only had a 30 minute loop (2005 requirement) as opposed to the recommended 2 hour loop.

[rebel]

Mmmm. O.K.

What ever you say. Obliviously you know better.

[crashdive123]

If I'm wrong and you have more insight into it please share. Smug doesn't become you.

[crashdive123]

Here’s what I am basing my comments on. Am I wrong?

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/10/airbus-a320-had-30-minute-cock.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockpit_voice_recorder

[rebel]

I'm not being smug! The recording is continuous. If need be, it can recovered for days not just thirty minutes-to-two hours. The saying is: rules are written in blood. I.E. For every mishap there have been rules and policy changes. I'm just being honest. We'll see what happens.
There could've been a good reason for the overshoot. E: My last comm was that the crew made a descent announcement. It's pretty unlikely they would've fallen asleep during a critical phase of flight.

[crashdive123]

My understanding, and please if I have it wrong let me know, is that on a 30 minute CVR at the end of the 30 minutes it keeps recording, thereby recording over top of the oldest data. I based my comment on that understanding of how it works. Whatever happened, happened. The pilots responded to calls 45 minutes prior to landing - when the CVR would have stopped recording. This would mean that anything the CVR picked up prior to them responding would have been taped over. Is that wrong?

[rebel]

My understanding, and please if I have it wrong let me know, is that on a 30 minute CVR at the end of the 30 minutes it keeps recording, thereby recording over top of the oldest data. I based my comment on that understanding of how it works. Whatever happened, happened. The pilots responded to calls 45 minutes prior to landing - when the CVR would have stopped recording. This would mean that anything the CVR picked up prior to them responding would have been taped over. Is that wrong?

Your right in that it's a continuous thirty minute loop. However, it's magnetic and if need be it can be brought back from days ago. If that makes sense.

[crashdive123]

Even if the data has been recorded over? I thought the older (recorded over) data would have been too corrupted to retrieve it reliably. Didn't know that. Thank you.

[rebel]

Yep. That's why it'd have been good to retrieve the boxes from the air France 330's.

[pocomoonskyeyes]

Crash I am no expert, but I do like watching some Forensic shows like Forensic files. If I understand correctly no matter if something is written over there is still a "ghost image" left and can be raised again. Sort of like when you write on a piece of paper the sheet underneath leaves a faint impression. It may be faint,and may be barely discernible but it can be "raised" and examined. Add some of the enhancement programs and stuff like that,and they could read that old data. They do the same thing with computers all the time in investigations. Even though it has been Erased and written over many times it is still there for the experts to recover.

[Rick]

If you need to know anything just ask. I slept at a Holiday Inn last night.

[SARKY]

You're missing the point, Yes they went past their landing point by 150 miles, BUT you normally begin your descent to the field long before you reach it. And they were at their cruise altitude the entire time. So they were not responsive for a minimum of 200 miles.

[Rick]

Just where were the flight attendants when all this was going on? Hmmmm? Could it be that.......? Mile High Club? Need I say more?

[crashdive123]

Seems that it was the flight attendants banging on the flight deck door that finally got their attention. http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20091026/US.Northwest.Flight.Overflown/