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2dumb2kwit
10-23-2009, 02:45 PM
They are looking at calling guns a health care cost issue.


Take the ***** administration's justification for its new gun research. "Gun-related violence is a public health problem - it diverts considerable health care resources away from other problems and, therefore, is of interest to NIH," wrote the agency spokesman in an e-mail responding to questions from Republican members of Congress about new grants the CDC is giving out. The statement assumes the conclusion of the research before the first study is done.

The research on right-to-carry laws illustrates the problem with the CDC. Dozens of refereed academic studies by economists and criminologists using national data have been published in journals. While the vast majority of those studies find that right-to-carry laws save lives and reduce harm to victims, some studies claim that the laws have no statistically significant effect. But most tellingly, there is not a single published refereed academic study by a criminologist or economist showing a bad effect from these laws.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/oct/22/the-feds-take-a-shot-at-guns/

Old GI
10-23-2009, 02:59 PM
The CDC has been doing that for years.

Ken
10-23-2009, 03:28 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_qgVn-Op7Q

NCO
10-23-2009, 03:29 PM
It doesn't matter, criminals will get guns anyway and hurt people if they are determined to do so.

2dumb2kwit
10-23-2009, 03:48 PM
The CDC has been doing that for years.

I'm not worried about the CDC....I'm thinking more along the lines of gun control being included in a health care bill.

(Those sneaky bastages!) :sneaky2:

2dumb2kwit
10-23-2009, 03:55 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_qgVn-Op7Q

egg-zackly!:sneaky2:

NCO
10-23-2009, 03:58 PM
Thank god I live in different country...

lucznik
10-23-2009, 04:11 PM
Thank god I live in different country...


But don't you already have both socialized medicine and draconian gun control?

NCO
10-23-2009, 04:49 PM
Socialized medicine, health care and everything yes. But we also have the worlds 3. largest amount of privately owned guns per capita.

lucznik
10-23-2009, 04:52 PM
we also have the worlds 3. largest amount of privately owned guns per capita.
Wow. That's cool. I guess you really do learn something new every day.

Didn't you mention somewhere else though (i think) that you have no handguns? So, I imagine this means you can have rifles and shotguns. Any restrictions on their type (automatics, pump actions, etc.)?

NCO
10-23-2009, 05:10 PM
I personally don't have a hand gun. Yes, there is some restrictions. You can't hut with a pistol or BB-gun or slingshot. Or crossbow (thanks EU!!:sneaky2:).
There were couple of bad school shootings a year or two back, which resulted of slight tightening of handgun laws. You get them by being a member of shooting club, owning cattle(for putting down animals), being active reservist in some pro defense organisation. Still easy to get. You need special permission to get full auto weapons. Also using some military calibers requires special permission. Semi-automatic shotguns aren't allowed to hold more than 6 shells... What else there was. Oh, you can't carry any type of weapon on a public place/area (city center, mall) if it is not clearly related to your job unless you have special permission. A construction man can carry his knife cause it is related to his job.. Hunting weapons can get pretty much anyone over 15 yo.

SARKY
10-23-2009, 06:15 PM
the CDC was defunded from doing that study until this administration re funded the study for the purpose of using it when charging (taxing) you for your health care.

NCO
10-23-2009, 06:16 PM
You feel that you should get healthcare without the taxes?

glockcop
10-23-2009, 06:29 PM
I personally don't have a hand gun. Yes, there is some restrictions. You can't hut with a pistol or BB-gun or slingshot. Or crossbow (thanks EU!!:sneaky2:).
There were couple of bad school shootings a year or two back, which resulted of slight tightening of handgun laws. You get them by being a member of shooting club, owning cattle(for putting down animals), being active reservist in some pro defense organisation. Still easy to get. You need special permission to get full auto weapons. Also using some military calibers requires special permission. Semi-automatic shotguns aren't allowed to hold more than 6 shells... What else there was. Oh, you can't carry any type of weapon on a public place/area (city center, mall) if it is not clearly related to your job unless you have special permission. A construction man can carry his knife cause it is related to his job.. Hunting weapons can get pretty much anyone over 15 yo.

What is this "Thank God I live in a different country" stuff about. Even as restrictive as our gun and knife laws are in the USA, we still have it waaaaayyyy better than you and pretty much every other country in the world. We plan to keep it that way. Best.

crashdive123
10-23-2009, 06:29 PM
You feel that you should get healthcare without the taxes?

I feel that I should either pay for my own health care, or the insurance policy that covers it. I also feel that I, as a human being don't have the right to reach into the wallet of my neighbor to make him/her pay for it. I further feel that with tort reform and allowing insurance to be sold across state lines that the prices would dramatically decrease so as to make it affordable. Yep, that's how I feel.

NCO
10-23-2009, 06:43 PM
Interesting opinion. Little alien to me, but then again we come from very different cultures. I on the other hand feel, that if my fellow citizen needs help, I'll help as best I can and if I need help, he/she helps. We have a saying here: "Kaveria ei jätetä." meaning roughly. "No-one/friend/pal/mate/fellowman gets left behind." Everyone are provided with basic social security by the taxpayers. Those who can pay bigger percentage of their income are obligated to do so and those who have no income are provided with minimum needed for living as a member of society.

2dumb2kwit
10-23-2009, 08:09 PM
Crash- Very well said. I agree 100%.

NCO- What most of us, over here, get ticked off about, has very little (if anything) to do with helping someone who needs help. Most of us are more than willing, to help those who need it, and we have programs in place to make sure that everyone has shelter, food, etc. What gets us mad, is when people who simply chose not to get off their backsides and work, show up with nicer cars, fancy jewelry, and better food, than people who work really hard for 50 or 60 hours a week. All paid for with money that is taken from us and given to them. When you work hard all week, and see what is taken out of you pay in taxes, you get pretty ticked off about what they do with it.

NCO
10-23-2009, 08:44 PM
Yes, I got that, and I agree. That is why that doesn't happen here.

Rick
10-23-2009, 10:07 PM
Well.....We have several thousand of them we could sure send you. Just let us know where in Finland you want them.

rebel
10-23-2009, 10:33 PM
Crash- Very well said. I agree 100%.

NCO- What most of us, over here, get ticked off about, has very little (if anything) to do with helping someone who needs help. Most of us are more than willing, to help those who need it, and we have programs in place to make sure that everyone has shelter, food, etc. What gets us mad, is when people who simply chose not to get off their backsides and work, show up with nicer cars, fancy jewelry, and better food, than people who work really hard for 50 or 60 hours a week. All paid for with money that is taken from us and given to them. When you work hard all week, and see what is taken out of you pay in taxes, you get pretty ticked off about what they do with it.

Funny thang.... rush said (not that he can but, we should), take a hand-full of candy from a child's Halloween bag to distribute to the needy.

2dumb2kwit
10-23-2009, 10:40 PM
Funny thang.... rush said (not that he can but, we should), take a hand-full of candy from a child's Halloween bag to distribute to the needy.

Just pretend that the political part is left out, and enjoy the humor of this one.:innocent:

SARKY
10-24-2009, 01:51 PM
You feel that you should get healthcare without the taxes?

NO! That's not what I said, They want to charge me MORE simply because I own a firarm.

canid
10-24-2009, 03:02 PM
they try to do the same thing for motorcycles.

Rick
10-24-2009, 04:16 PM
There are some things that have a direct correlation. They've been charging more for medical insurance for years to smokers. Cause and effect.

Owning a firearm doesn't naturally extend to being injured by one the way smoking impacts health.

As for motorcycle riders, there are only two kinds. Those that have gone down and those that will. Quasi cause and affect.

canid
10-24-2009, 04:39 PM
Owning a firearm doesn't naturally extend to being injured by one the way smoking impacts health. nor does owning a motorcycle.

true, most people who operate one will have an accident. this is true of drivers of 4 wheeled vehicles aswell.

in the case of both vehicle types, most accidents are minor, and occur at low speeds. the oft cited head and neck injuries are well offset by the wearing of a DOT approved helmet.

unlike a collision with a multi-passenger vehicle, a collision with a motorcycle is likely to result in the injury of only one person.

the minor injuries i suffered in my accident [a loss of traction at about 40mph on a freeway ramp in the frost] would have been no more than bruising had i also been wearing my leathers.

canid
10-24-2009, 04:46 PM
at the end of the day, i think my biggest gripe here is the futility of trying to regulate common sense.

particularly when much money is wasted in the effort while justifying it as an attempt to save the same.

2dumb2kwit
10-24-2009, 04:55 PM
at the end of the day, i think my biggest gripe here is the futility of trying to regulate common sense.

particularly when much money is wasted in the effort while justifying it as an attempt to save the same.

Well.....I probably would have just quoted Ron White, and said "You can't fix stupid", but yes, I do agree with you. LOL:blushing:

crashdive123
10-24-2009, 05:08 PM
Well.....I probably would have just quoted Ron White, and said "You can't fix stupid"

If it was painful, there would be a whole lot less of it.

2dumb2kwit
10-24-2009, 05:16 PM
If it was painful, there would be a whole lot less of it.

Ain't that the truth!

canid
10-24-2009, 05:19 PM
no, no: stupid often hurts, just not reliably enough for some to put the two together.

besides, even i [that's right, me] am a slow learner.

2dumb2kwit
10-24-2009, 05:33 PM
besides, even i [that's right, me] am a slow learner.

Hey, Hey, Hey......Don't be trying to get in on my act! LOL:innocent:

SARKY
10-24-2009, 06:55 PM
This is all about control, if they (the govt.) punishes you enough via taxes or fees specific to you or your bad (in their opinion) habits, they figure that they can make you give them up. Here's one for you.... I think that lazy fat asses should be taxed per pound over the optimin weight for their height, because of the burden they eventually put on society! Is that fair???? Or right???

Rick
10-24-2009, 06:57 PM
I think I'll plead the 5th on this one.

crashdive123
10-24-2009, 07:03 PM
crap - I'm in trouble.

Rick
10-24-2009, 07:08 PM
Look, we're moderators. Do we REALLY have to put up with guys that ask these kinds of questions? Sheeeeesh. Isn't there SOMETHING in the rules about calling people names? He hit me with three all at once.

2dumb2kwit
10-24-2009, 07:11 PM
This is all about control, if they (the govt.) punishes you enough via taxes or fees specific to you or your bad (in their opinion) habits, they figure that they can make you give them up. Here's one for you.... I think that lazy fat asses should be taxed per pound over the optimin weight for their height, because of the burden they eventually put on society! Is that fair???? Or right???

Don't forget that we get to be the ones who decide if the weight was problem, reguardless of what others say.:innocent:

Rick
10-24-2009, 07:13 PM
Mercy. That's two in one night.

Yeah, he's right. We get to say what's lazy, fat and an ..... well, you know.

Ole WV Coot
10-24-2009, 08:26 PM
I was raised wrong. Taught to work, pay my way, respect others, take care of my family and help others if they need anything but a handout. I guess I am out of touch, I still pay my way and don't expect the government to take care of me. I grew up with guns, knives and never used a firearm in the States. I think I am about as free as anyone in the world and I hope I helped a little to keep it that way. My personal opinion on socialized anything is just shove it, we've lived in these hills for a long time and I plan on a few more years.

oly
10-24-2009, 08:44 PM
I think I'll plead the 5th on this one.

That will be under attack just after gun control takes affect

Rick
10-24-2009, 10:50 PM
I can't have my 5th any more? What's next? Pints?

kx250kev
10-25-2009, 01:20 AM
I feel that I should either pay for my own health care, or the insurance policy that covers it. I also feel that I, as a human being don't have the right to reach into the wallet of my neighbor to make him/her pay for it. I further feel that with tort reform and allowing insurance to be sold across state lines that the prices would dramatically decrease so as to make it affordable. Yep, that's how I feel.

Yep, REAL competition will bring down the price of healthcare. Well said crashdive123:clap:

TangoFoxtrot
10-25-2009, 08:17 AM
They are looking at calling guns a health care cost issue.



http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/oct/22/the-feds-take-a-shot-at-guns/

The only health care issue is all the crap we swallow from all the studies!