Wilderness Living Dreams or Delusions

[doug1980]

For some time now I have wanted to live way out there. You know, be one with nature. Well maybe not quite like that but definitely some land with a cabin away from the hustle and bustle of modern life. A very good friend of mine did just that about 12 years ago. He built a very modest (12’x 20’) cabin, which he lived in for almost 3 years. He then added a 14’x 24’ addition and a deck. It has grid power, indoor plumbing, and all the creature comforts. It sits back about ¾ of a mile from the road on his 10 acre lot. Sounds perfect to me and I do envy him. I also had the pleasure of meeting a member from this forum who has lived this type of life longer than I have been alive. I spent hours picking his brain to satisfy my fantasy. He shared every detail about this lifestyle, and I mean every detail. I left with a much better understanding of what it really takes to live like this. One thing that amazed me is the amount of money it takes just to live in, what most today would call “poverty” Another thing that really shocked me is the amount of time a simple job/task takes to improve living conditions in a situation such as this. I will not go into specific details out of respect for my friend but it is staggering. I’m not sure many people are truly aware on what it really takes, physically, mentally and financially to live like this.

[doug1980]

I’m sure most see it just as I did, with wonderment and amazement. To live like the old Pioneers did, off the land and self sufficient. Let’s just think about that for a second…Pioneers had an average life expectancy of 39. Ok so maybe that is a little overdramatic, but still something to take into account. The point is it is hard, let me say that again, hard work to live like this. Now sure if you have indoor plumbing, grid power, oil/gas heat etc. then it wouldn’t be much different than living in town. Huh, no different than living in town, well then why not stay in town? Oh that’s right because it’s safer away from town. Well I know one person that would disagree with that from personal experience. The wild is a better place to be if SHTF. That may be true, but where do you think all the people from town will go? Now it is not my intent to discourage anyone from trying this. It is not my intent to say it can’t be done I’m not even saying it shouldn’t be done. All I am saying is that it is not as romantic as many believe. You have to think that the further out you go the harder it will be. I can hear you all now, “well duh Doug, we knew that.” But do you really? Obviously I have no real experience on this, and I don’t claim to, but I did get an eye opener about it.

[doug1980]

So let’s say, hypothetically, I found a great piece of land. Say 10 acres with beautiful views of mountains, a little creek and about an hour from town. Now there is road access to it, which is both good and bad. (Good because I have easy access, bad because others have the same easy access) Ok so I have my dream land, now what. Well I need a driveway, and of course I want the cabin off the road a ways so it must be long. (Let’s say 300’ in) Ok sounds easy but I have no heavy equipment, so I will have to rent some. Probably need a permit too, and can’t forget the rock. Now I have no idea how much that would cost but I’m sure it isn’t cheap, not to mention we are an hour away from the nearest equipment rental place. But we get it done…now we have a driveway on our beautiful land. Ok what now. Well got to have a cabin, right? Ah yes the glorious cabin/lodge. You know the kind, 2,000 sq ft with huge windows so you can eat at the table and see the mountains. Or if you are a bit more modest a 300 sq ft cabin/shack. Either way you have to get supplies to the site. You have to have power tools to build this thing. Not to mention the weather and time of year you are trying to do this. It could take a year or more to get this thing done. Between material shortages, weather delays, contractor issues, and your schedule, who knows how long it could take. But let’s say you miraculously get it done in 6 months. So now you have a cabin on your little piece of heaven. So are we done, is that all? Well sure if you plan to use it a couple days at a time. But to live in it full time, we are far from finished.

[doug1980]

We might want water, power and heat. So we install a wood stove. (But now we need firewood and lots of it every year) We decide on a well. (Again we need heavy equipment to dig it out and run the lines) Then we have to run sewer lines and install a septic tank. (More heavy equipment which means more money) Now it’s time for power. Oh sure you could live without it, heck if your tough enough you could live without indoor plumbing as well. But we decide we like having a way to keep food cold all year, we like having a computer and we like having lights. So now we have to decide, grid or off grid. Now I can already hear all you hard-core guys out there, off grid all the way. Ok so solar power, wind power, hydro power or generator. Well they are all very expensive to install and the generator would be costly over time with all the fuel needed. So I would pick grid power with a backup system of some sort. Now grid power can be expensive up front also, depending on where the power lines are. But we’ll say it is at the road. Piece of cake then…well not exactly. Still have money to shell out for that too. Nevertheless we got it all hooked up. So now we have our land, driveway, cabin, heat, water/sewer and power. Finally we can sit back and enjoy our paradise…..not so fast. Now we have constant chores to do. Firewood needs cut and stacked and might need food. More than likely something will stop working or need to be redone, anyone who owns a house knows there is always something to do. Now the first winter comes. 4’ of snow falls and now you can’t get down that fancy new driveway you just installed. It gets colder than you expected so you burn way more wood than you thought so now you are out there cutting wood in -10* weather. Your water lines freeze up because you forgot to use the heat tape. The power goes out because of all the snow on the lines, so now you are using the generator. Which is fine but you run out of fuel and still can’t get out of the driveway. Your food supply starts to dwindle down too. Not so wonderful and exciting now, huh? Not exactly what you signed up for is it?

Doug

[pocomoonskyeyes]

You put that VERY well Doug. I figured if I wanted a place like that in the lower 48 I would need about 2 million before I even moved in!! Probably more than I would need but not by much. I have no delusions on how expensive it is, although I may be deluded on the amount of work. Unless I win the powerball, it is probably out of my reach anyway.... But I still dream.

[Winnie]

Well Doug, my ex and I tried living a self sufficient lifestyle and that was great until the marriage fell apart. Two can do things easier and quicker than one. However, we didn't do this out in the wilds of England, we did it on the edge of a village and that was tough enough.
You've hit the nail on the head with your posts it isn't easy and it certainly isn't cheap if you want some creature comforts.
I still belive you can do it for not huge amounts of money, but with sacrifices that a lot of people aren't willing to make(me included)

[Sourdough]

Over the last 12 years
___________________________



$44,000.00 For the raw wilderness land. (CURRENT VALUE: about $900,000.00)

$56,000.00 for driveway (Only half finished)

$5,100.00 for permits, culverts, and classified material to exit the main road.

$8,500.00 Basic Framed-in shack (Just studs, no insulation)

$5,500.00 rent D-8 to clear building site.

$1,200.00 EACH WAY to deliver and return the D-8

$9,200.00 for septic system (NO septic lines, vents, clean=outs,etc.)

$3,400.00 first well

$3,600.00 second well

$2,600.00 for waterline (Excavator rent, 160' of 1" K-TYPE copper line, Heat tape, unions, fittings, pit-less, and pit-less adapter)

$55,000.00 estimated cost to run electric to back of property.

$9,300.00 for one diesel generator, and four gasoline generators.

$3,700.00 for two skid-mounted 1,000 Gal. fuel tanks, and one 12V fuel pump.

$10,740.00 for New Ski-doo SWT Snow Machine.

$1,690.00 for log splitter

$2,400.00 small grain barn

$3,800.00 each for "FOUR" steel storage units (Connex) for tool storage. And temporary personal property storage.

$44,700.00 truck with 9 1/2' "V" snowplow.

$2,600.00 for rifle range and shooting barn.

$26,500.00 for your own D-8 Dozer.

$21,000.00 for your own Case 450B Dozer.

OUTHOUSE with no door Priceless.

NOTE: Still no real cabin, just a 11" X 23" Frame shack. I will say that the joy is in the creation, the planning, the dream, the slow step by step process. But Doug is correct, that when it is done people will come and say this is what I want. But if you tell them the cost in money and hours of manual labor they will think you a teller of untruths.

[Pal334]

You guys sure know how to spoil a fantasy by injecting reality. But seriously, is a good heads up, and can help someone from making a serious and / or ill timed or prepared error

[wildWoman]

Always depends on one's preferences...Where I lived before we came outhere, I was 700 yards from the road. The 6 acres of raw land cost me $30,000.-. For $800.-, got about 200 yards of "driveway" put in. The rest of the drieveway I cleared myself, put down gravel and curdoroy in the soft spots myself and just parked close to the road in the winter (so no plowing costs) and during run-off, to not make ruts. Chainsaw and a few tools $600.-. For about $4,000.- in building materials, I built two stackwall cabins @ 18' diameter each.
Two 20l buckets @ $9.95 each enabled me to bring water in by stopping at the creek. Firewood I got by hand with a kids' plastic toboggan for about $20.-. I also used the toboggan to pull groceries and water buckets down the drivewayin the winter.

That was my entire set-up and I was very happy with it. No power, no phone.
I realize that at a certain age the charm of that lifestyle would have faded but wanted to add this for the under 50 crowd....it's entirely up to you and nobody else how much your lifestyle will cost, once the land is paid for.

As for the wilderness living now...our 7 acres or so were $25,000.-. Two skidoos $7,500,-. Two motorboats $22,000.-. Building supplies for 1 1/2 cabins @ about 16'x26' each plus a 16'x12' shed about $7,000.-. Satellite system, laptops, solar panel, batteries $5,000.-. 2 generators $700,-. Assorted tools $2,000.-.

Again, you can go as fancy as you like or as simple as you like...but living without road access is IMO always more expensive than having a road at least close by.

[Sourdough]

wildWoman, I find that most people expect that the total cost to BUY your lifestyle should be FREE or at the most $5,000.-- for everything, total cost. Most people I encounter think that to buy or have what I have should total cost about $10,000.-- to $20,000.-- Total for everything.

Here remote land is much cheaper than accessable land. But people don't think about the cost of $15,000.-- just for FREIGHT ONLY, to take a building package in 15 miles by Nodwell.

[Rick]

I certainly have no illusions and I have no desire to live that lifestyle. I applaud those of you that do, it's just not what I want. Would I like to be a gentleman farmer? Sure, who wouldn't? Everyone wants the woods with the creek and the view. But I also want access to my kids, my grandkids, medical care and whatever else my fancy conjures up for the week-end. And it sure is nice to turn the air on when it's hot or heat on when it's cold. Is my lifestyle expensive? Sure. But you get what you pay for...I think(?).

[pocomoonskyeyes]

Judging from what Sourdough/ Hope said, I see my guess was a little short, I better figure in another million. I appreciate the heads up on actual cost..... Now If I can just win that Powerball.....Western states here I come!!!

[FVR]

Yeh, I'm a dreamer too.

[hunter63]

Doug1980, how right you are
When you do something like this, it come down to time and cash.
If you have the time, the cost is less.
We started w/buying the land in 1988, first 10 acres, paid it off and added another 6.5 in about 1992 as it came on the market. (cost double the 10 acre cost for the 6 acres)

South facing hill side and 4 levels of sorta flat spots.
On a river with 800 ft of frontage, 10.5 acres tillable and cropped by the neighbors.

First couple 16 years we used a small 16ft camper, then another camper and a shed.
Hunted, camped (or at least stayed there, I know how you guys think about camping), 4 wheeled, canoed/fished in the river, partied with friends and locals, got know by neighbors

Had the Amish build us a log cabin, I wasn't getting any younger, so I watched them do it. 2005
Still working on it, (it was a closed shell).
So:
10.6 acres $10k
6.6 acres $20k
Original drive way, (farmer stub road) $2K
Old trailers, $400 and $200
Electric (seasonal rate, $15 a month, plus usage, $300 for pole/ hook up, plug on pole.
Shed $1300 (built by local high school kids) Another $200 to haul it to the site (another story)
Site prep for cabin plus modified drive way $6500.
Cabin $25K
Well- state approved 185 ft $4500,
Septic system stubbed into cabin (land came with perk) and pump/water line stubbed into cabin. $7.5K
DYI plumbing-water and sewer $1000- almost all summer, part time, floated a turd on the one year anniversary
DYI electric service/wiring $800 to 900.+ $500 for back-up elect. baseboards
DYI bathroom $2000 walls and fixtures.(built my own cabinets)
DYI kitchen $2000 (built my own cabinets)
Wood stove/piping $1500
Tractor with brush hog, loader, back blade, post hole auger $20K
Truck (on my third 4 X4) $15K, 30K, $45K
2-4 wheelers $4k apiece
Boats, canoe's /duck boats 10K

Our "Place" in the country, paid for,(all except the new truck)........ priceless!

[DOGMAN]

My place is 22 acres in the mountains of Montana (about 20 miles from a town), with a year-round creek (with fish) and National Forest access. To get to our mile long driveway, you have to go about 9 miles down a rough logging road. We have a "seasonal access" road, that some years we can drive to the house everyday, in heavy snowfall years we leave the trucks about a mile away, and run sled-dogs, walk or snowmachine home. I have a 1200 sq ft cabin, running water (well) electricity and propane (and a small guest cabin w/o electricity)
it was recently appraised at $450,000....that is considered inexpensive for this area of Montana! the most expensive part of building a home in my area is putting in the well, the septic, the driveway, and electricity. 10 acres of raw, undeveloped land in the area is about $200,000

For all practical purposes if you compared our lifestyle with people in urban areas- we would be considered poor.

[doug1980]

Well I want to thankeveryone for their responses on this. I have to say that I had delusions on this matter. I mean in my head and even on paper it seems simple. I just barely touched on what the "every day" life would be like. And I have to say that even at 28 (soon to be 29) I am not prepared for it. Oh I could go awhile, but for every day, week or month that goes by I will get older and older. Something that "sourdough" said really stuck with me. Living like this is all about preparing for the future. Start making things easier so when you physically can't haul water, chop wood etc... you will still be able to live this way. Even though it is tough to let go of a dream, I see now that I do not have the "will" to live like he does or WW does. But I do have a backup plan that will at least give me a taste of this lifestyle. I can still have a vacation cabin on some remote land. That would be much easier to do and can take a lifetime to finish without much problem. So that is what I will plan on doing and start working towards.

[Mountain Man]

My home got power in 1988, it was built in 1985, the neighbors who are ~1/4 mile away have lived there since the `70's on generators. The road we live on is one of the last before 60+ miles of wilderness to snake your way back to a road that leads to civilization 30 miles down the mountain or 50+ up.... 4 miles from here no plowing during winter which means no one but snow mobiles up further.

The reason I share this...

Do either of you have concerns about "neighbors" or populations in the next 20 years approaching your "retreats" ???

We have 20 acres, and the 20 acres next to me is for sale and boy-oh-boy how I wish I could afford it. (Then we would own from 1 road to another, and bordered by a front road. No one could build within 1/4 mile either way.)

Our goal / long-term is to be as self sufficient as possible, but boy-oh-boy does repairing a house by itself add up quick! 7'x20' covered front porch ~900$ in material alone w/labor all done by us. That was shopping around for the best wood rates!

Sourdough- I am jealous of the toys errr tools you have to play with within the next year or two my first big-boy-toy is going to be a commercial/construction skip-loader! As I can't afford a separate dozer, tractor and excavator it seems to be the most universal tool. I expect I will be learning a lot from you :)

[Sourdough]

Do either of you have concerns about "neighbors" or populations in the next 20 years approaching your "retreats" ???



When I was younger I wanted no neighbors, Strange as it sounds, even to me, at this point I wish I had a few more neighbors for security. The more isolated you are the more vulnerable you are.

[Sourdough]

I would vote we make this thread a sticky. And I hope we get more feedback from members. This is valuable, useful information. at least IMHO.

[Pal334]

I also think a sticky would be appropriate. Lots of information is being shared here

[Pal334]

When I was younger I wanted no neighbors, Strange as it sounds, even to me, at this point I wish I had a few more neighbors for security. The more isolated you are the more vulnerable you are.

Another good thought. Probably comforting to know you have a reliable neighbor to cover your back if the inevitable miscreant starts messing with you. Also someone in case you get hurt? I would think, with all the manual work that needs to be done, that would be a serious consideration

[Sourdough]

Safety in numbers, up to the point it effects the quallity of life. Where I live we have nine humans in a 2,500 square mile area, in a National Forest.

[crashdive123]

I would vote we make this thread a sticky. And I hope we get more feedback from members. This is valuable, useful information. at least IMHO.

Consider it stuck.

[your_comforting_company]

Safety in numbers, up to the point it effects the quallity of life. Where I live we have nine humans in a 2,500 square mile area, in a National Forest.

got room for 1 more? I promise you wont even know I'm there :clap:

[hunter63]

Well I want to thankeveryone for their responses on this. I have to say that I had delusions on this matter. I mean in my head and even on paper it seems simple. I just barely touched on what the "every day" life would be like. And I have to say that even at 28 (soon to be 29) I am not prepared for it. Oh I could go awhile, but for every day, week or month that goes by I will get older and older. Something that "sourdough" said really stuck with me. Living like this is all about preparing for the future. Start making things easier so when you physically can't haul water, chop wood etc... you will still be able to live this way. Even though it is tough to let go of a dream, I see now that I do not have the "will" to live like he does or WW does. But I do have a backup plan that will at least give me a taste of this lifestyle. I can still have a vacation cabin on some remote land. That would be much easier to do and can take a lifetime to finish without much problem. So that is what I will plan on doing and start working towards.

That is sorta the way we started, and with land prices mostly always going up, it was important to get that first, then add what we could , when we could.
Was kinda fun, when all that was there for a long time was just the trailers, and shed.
Show up, check the power, dump your stuff, light pilot light on furnace, change clothes and go hunting fishing, canoeing, 4 wheeling, or generally having fun.

1988 to 2005
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/PICT0135.jpg

Then we got the cabin, now it's mostly work, hard to sit in the woods, looking at your wood pile, knowing you should be cutting and splitting for the winter, or a hundred other things that need doing.

2005 to date

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/Front.jpg



I can see where the idea of GOODodge, is appealing more so now, than maybe say before, but don't get overwhelmed.

Was fun doing it, a intresting journey so far, lots of learning on the way, but DO IT.

[GrizzlyGirl]

Hi All,
Am brand new to this forum & thought this would be the best place to make my first post. I absolutely agree that living remotely & trying to be relatively "self-sufficient" is expensive & more work than most imagine, however, I have to say that IMHO the sense of pride & fulfillment I get when I complete my "chores" (firewood, fencing, rototilling etc) on my property absolutely justifies all the sacrifices it takes. :D

[trax]

Well actually Grizzly Girl the best place to start is the introduction section. Maybe when the other chores are done you can wander on over there and tell us a bit about yourself.

[DOGMAN]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/Front.jpg


Can you tell me some more about your Amish bulit cabin shell? 25k seems like a fantastic price for such a nice looking dwelling...

[hunter63]

Thanks for asking, we like it, could have done a lot of other ways, but was low priced enough, that it is paid off.
And as it was hauled to the site, it is considered a mobil home, so a lot of codes don't apply. (good to know when you DYI).

This is the guy that makes cabins:

Hill Crest Log Cabins
Ervin Schmucker
12226 U.S. Hwy 14
Richland Center, WI 53581
608-538-3759 (don't call on sunday, they don't work)

I would try the number as I haven't been over that way in awhile.

I had his brother build mine, but he moved, and I don't know if he's still doing it.
Anyway:
In 2005, the basic long log cabin was 16' X 30' w/ 8 ft porch the full length.
Was about $16K , no financing, cash or cashiers check.

We added 10' ( for bath and kitchen) @ about $200 per ft.
We added the dormers, @ $900 each.
Also extra door, couple of windows and pine flooring, so when was all said and done, as pictured about $25K

Site prep, 18 sonit tubes, 36 blocks (to put it on) are extra.
And of course all other inanities.

Logs are 8" solid milled "D" shaped tongue & grove, pine logs with caulk in between, and pinned.
They build it either in their barn, or much more expensive on site.
The you haul it to the site.

They put you in touch w/ a trucker, you take care of that, but the price included the shipping.

Born in a barn:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/PICT0100.jpg

On the move:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/PICT0101crop.jpg

P.S. You supply your own dogs!

[Mountain Man]

Very nice cabin!!

[oldsoldier]

The wife and I are currently in re negotiation on some acerage in N.carolina, Since it is considered remote, ( 15 miles from town out a 2 lane road then 5 more on gravel) we think we are getting a good deal. The seller decided to go on and sell some ajoining acerage so mow we are working on getting 30 acres. Power runs along gravel road, but no water or sewage. So we will need to put in septic and drill a well, But for $ 4,500.00per acre That's okay.

[doug1980]

The wife and I are currently in re negotiation on some acerage in N.carolina, Since it is considered remote, ( 15 miles from town out a 2 lane road then 5 more on gravel) we think we are getting a good deal. The seller decided to go on and sell some ajoining acerage so mow we are working on getting 30 acres. Power runs along gravel road, but no water or sewage. So we will need to put in septic and drill a well, But for $ 4,500.00per acre That's okay.

Yeah that's a fair price. I looked at 10 acres in Pike Co. IN a few years ago and it was 1,500/acre....sure wish I would have bought it now.

[wildWoman]

Do either of you have concerns about "neighbors" or populations in the next 20 years approaching your "retreats" ???

My concern is getting some mining outfit out here (I have the same concern about mining outfits in other wilderness areas, it is unfortunately an industry with a dirt poor record as far as environmental stewardship is concerned).

Neighbours are probably an unrealstic option due to government red tape as far as land acquisition is concerned, and roads are even more unrealistic because of the topography.
If our current neighbour, 10kms away, would leave and somebody else would move there full-time, I would hope for somebody with similar core values as far as nature and wildlife are concerned. I think I would actually enjoy that.

[Mountain Man]

My concern is getting some mining outfit out here (I have the same concern about mining outfits in other wilderness areas, it is unfortunately an industry with a dirt poor record as far as environmental stewardship is concerned).

Neighbours are probably an unrealstic option due to government red tape as far as land acquisition is concerned, and roads are even more unrealistic because of the topography.
If our current neighbour, 10kms away, would leave and somebody else would move there full-time, I would hope for somebody with similar core values as far as nature and wildlife are concerned. I think I would actually enjoy that.

They outlawed some form of mining recently here in CA... obviously mining was pretty darn popular up here in the Sierras ;) Still shafts, ghost towns, scrap metal, and more left behind from those good`ol days... not to mention where I live wouldn't be here w/out it.

Having people with similar values living around you is always great I've come to realize... city or wilderness.

[smittysurvival]

really i dont thin you need a drive way. i mean i think that a simple dirt road would suffice

[rwc1969]

Good thread! It all adds up in the end no matter how you slice it. I've looked into building log homes and stickbilt homes and all that goes into it. It ain't cheap and prices have skyrocketed locally in the past 10-20 years.

I'm curious to know what the price per acre is where everyone lives and how remote they are.??

I was surprised to hear 4,500 an acre and such for what sounds like somewhat remote unmaintained areas. Around here prices vary greatly from 500-800 an acre, although quite rare these days, for relatively remote or run down areas all the way up to the moon for suburban or tourist/ vacation spots. Up north what used to be somewhat remote and 500 an acre is now golf resorts and 60,000+ for a 5 acre parcel.

Locally, a city sized lot could easily be 60,000 or more. On the flip side in some war torn cities you can get a house for 4,000 to 10,000. I'd like to find some acreage, 40+, in a wilderness area I could gain access to a maintained road within 1 mile. Don't need electricity or gas service. Would like something that backs up to a river or huntable state or federal land. Not neccesarilly looking to live there, but would like to put a small trailer or cabin on for a getaway, BOL, etc. Anywhere in NA!

[your_comforting_company]

Most land around here is going for 10k per acre.. that's more than my house is worth according to the tax assessor. Rather rural town, but it is growing. I thought it was really excessive. To get land any cheaper than that it's gonna be old fields that aren't good for farming anymore. Undeveloped land with very poor soil.

[Sourdough]

About $42,000.00 per acre here, for land with no view, or water frontage. 4.2 Acres just sold for one million cash, and the 7.3 acres next to it sold for one million cash also; to the same buyer, however it is on a Class four/five river.

We just sold 1/2 acre no view for $35,000.00 cash which = $70,K per Ac.. I have some of my land listed with another broker at $50,000.-- per acre.

[rwc1969]

Are you in or near a major town/ city Sourdough? Is that considered vacation property or are the people buying living there year round?

That sounds very expensive.

[Sourdough]

Are you in or near a major town/ city Sourdough? Is that considered vacation property or are the people buying living there year round?

That sounds very expensive.



No, the about 80 miles south of Los Anchorage, area is in slow transition..... to world class resort/retirement area. 40 miles from Alyeska Ski Resort. If you google up: Chugach Outdoors Center or Six-mile creek + Alaska you'll get the idea. Land in Alyeska is $600,000.00 to $800,000.00 per acre. Most of Alaska is Public Land and there is relatively little private land, especially quality land.

[Mtnman Mike]

People can spend as much money as they wish and most people would need a Lot of money to build what they would find comfy enough.

I try to live very frugal, most would say I am a cheapskate. I think only the homeless would live on less money than I have especially for the past ten years.

In 1987 I paid $8,000 for my 3 and 1/2 acres of remote mtn land in southern Wyoming. It is at 9,500 feet and about 12 miles west of Encampment, WY

I also paid around $1,000 for the interest but paid the land off in 3 years so a total of $9,000 for the land which is supposed to be worth at least $50,000 today not including my buildings which most do not know about unless they read some posts on the net.

I have spent maybe a total of $4,000 for building materials and equipment. I do not keep close tabs of my expenses for the past 20 plus years for I am no bookkeeper.

But I also have salvaged much material such as lumber, steel beams etc. One big expense was 80 pound bags of concrete which I have bought at least 250 and carried them up the mountain to make my underground cabin/bunker stronger.

I just wanted to share some of my expenses to show that it is possible to Not spend huge amounts of money to make a good survival retreat. Most probably would not really like it for it is sorta "crude" but it does work for me. And I will make it a little nicer if/when I ever move up there permanently.

I "only" live up there from June to November for the past ten years.

[Nativedude]

I have a serious question for those whom choose to live in the remote wilderness, yet spend so much to live there. Why? :confused1:

Why do you need a well/running water, septic system, house building kit flown in, grid electricity, creature comforts (as city people call them)? :confused1: If your hep on having electricity there is solar (photovoltaic) or windmill (turbine) electricity.

When I first ventured out I had a Yurt that I bought used for $1,000 (still have it). I now use it as a base for my survival/primitive living courses. 50# of salt pork, potatoes, and powdered milk. 25# each of organic flour, rice, beans, and sugar. 10# of cinnamon, vanilla beans, cumin, raw garlic, garlic powder, and paprika. I also had 1 hen and 1 rooster, and various bundles of fresh herbs that I dried.

I had all of my tools (axe, auger bits, chisels, etc.) for building my shelter, as well as, my clothing, bedding, and various other in-sundries. . . .Everything I needed to live.

All told, and this is building up my supplies (other than food) over a 10 year period, I had spent about $5,200.

Now I do a lot of trading when I go to town. Don't spend nor need a lot of cash. The most expense I have is my sat. phone, which I use for my internet connection. Going to change that this coming March, so that expense will be cut by about 70%.

I have an outhouse (dug a 10'd x 5'l x 4'w) pit. Still a long way from being filled. That's my septic. I get my water from the river or falls, hunt & fish for my meat, etc.

I figure, if I'm going to live in mother Nature's livingroom, I'm going to use what she has to offer to live there. Not have it MANufactured in the city and bring it into her abode. I guess that's just me?! :confused1:

Anyway, you can live cheaply, if you choose, in the remote wilderness. It's just up to you how many "creature comforts" you need!

[crashdive123]

So - do you accept money from your students?

[justin_baker]

I dont think i would mind the hardships faced, i dont really need much to be comfortable. I love the wilderness so much though, there is no way that i am not going to spend a ton of time out there. I could easily spend some time in a brush shelter if it meant getting away from civilization. Mabeye i would get bored eventually....but i cant really know.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

I have not seen this thread before. Makes me glad I never had the option of having enough money to even think of doings things that way.

[Sourdough]

I have not seen this thread before. Makes me glad I never had the option of having enough money to even think of doings things that way.


How much money do you have in your place.......? If someone said, "I'll buy everything (Guns, knives, house, land, everything) you walk away in a sheet, leave your Alaska clothing, leave everything.......HOW much.........I'll bet it is Hundreds of thousands of dollars. The point of this thread is people think they can take a swiss army knife & $5.00 and live forever in the wilderness.

[randyt]

very interesting.

i'm curious with this wilderness living does that mean not working outside the home?

interesting too is the money required. back in the early eighties i helped a friend build a log house in rural ky. at that time he had very little in his homestead, things have changed over over the years. he scrounged nearly everything. no indoor plumbing, no electricity, no HVAC. he has a spring that we would take a bucket to for water. over the years he has added a generator that he only runs now and then. he put a insert into his fireplace, for years he just used the fireplace. he added a water holding tank and a indoor flush toilet. things have grown around there. he did this with six kids and a wife, the oldest was 18 years old. it was a rough set up. food was mostly beans and oatmeal. ya know the old "oatmeal or no meal thing".

back to the house. when i showed up to give a hand he had stone piers and one row of logs started. his boys were dragging red cedar out of the woods with a team of mules. in a week we had the walls up and started on the rafters. plywood went down on the roof and roll roofing. plywood went on the gables. dirt was filled in the gap around the piers. i had left before that happened. he built a stone fireplace and moved in. they lived with a dirt floor for a few years. they moved in that fall, they were living in a pickup camper and the boys were living in a old corncrib that a farmer gave them.

a lot has changed since then it's amazing what can accumulate over time.
this gent was a mason and worked outside the home, i'm guessing he was 47 years old at the time. by the way this took place about 25 miles from our friend Poco.

[Sourdough]

very interesting.

i'm curious with this wilderness living does that mean not working outside the home?.

In my opinion you can live in the wilderness, and work Outside the home. Again, I think the point of this thread is, it ain't FREE. One way or another it takes hard labor or money, and often a lot of both.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

How much money do you have in your place.......? If someone said, "I'll buy everything (Guns, knives, house, land, everything) you walk away in a sheet, leave your Alaska clothing, leave everything.......HOW much.........I'll bet it is Hundreds of thousands of dollars. The point of this thread is people think they can take a swiss army knife & $5.00 and live forever in the wilderness.

I think there is no limit to how much money you can put into a piece of land. The real question is do you have to have it all before you make the move or will you be able to accumulate more when you get there? At some point you must develop a livelyhood there and if living within your means will be able to accumulate more. What is the minimum you can live with? Then how can you accumilate more? Answer that and you get it done. The real issue is how do you get there from here. I have great admiration for those that can do it without money because they are few.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

I dont think i would mind the hardships faced, i dont really need much to be comfortable. I love the wilderness so much though, there is no way that i am not going to spend a ton of time out there. I could easily spend some time in a brush shelter if it meant getting away from civilization. Mabeye i would get bored eventually....but i cant really know.

I think you should read this.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10960

[welderguy]

How much money do you have in your place.......? If someone said, "I'll buy everything (Guns, knives, house, land, everything) you walk away in a sheet, leave your Alaska clothing, leave everything.......HOW much.........I'll bet it is Hundreds of thousands of dollars. The point of this thread is people think they can take a swiss army knife & $5.00 and live forever in the wilderness.

Just curious what is the 5.00 needed for in the wilderness?

[Sourdough]

Just curious what is the 5.00 needed for in the wilderness?



Tents, nails, stoves, tools, etc. (about $8,000.-- worth of basics).

[Alaskan Survivalist]

Sourdoughs point is well taken and the more assets you have the greater your odds of success. It will vary somewhat depending on the resources provided by the land and your own abilities. Here knowing 12 ways to build a fire is not needed. You are better knowing one way to build fire and 11 other things. The wilderness is not going to change to accomadate your fantasies and if you intend it to you will need heavy equipment. There is a difference between surviving a week and when it becomes your life and people need to get real. Our experiences differ some but I know exactly what he is trying to communicate.

[welderguy]

Tents, nails, stoves, tools, etc. (about $8,000.-- worth of basics).

I got ya !

[seeker1968]

I have a serious question for those whom choose to live in the remote wilderness, yet spend so much to live there. Why? :confused1:

Why do you need a well/running water, septic system, house building kit flown in, grid electricity, creature comforts (as city people call them)? :confused1: If your hep on having electricity there is solar (photovoltaic) or windmill (turbine) electricity.

When I first ventured out I had a Yurt that I bought used for $1,000 (still have it). I now use it as a base for my survival/primitive living courses. 50# of salt pork, potatoes, and powdered milk. 25# each of organic flour, rice, beans, and sugar. 10# of cinnamon, vanilla beans, cumin, raw garlic, garlic powder, and paprika. I also had 1 hen and 1 rooster, and various bundles of fresh herbs that I dried.

I had all of my tools (axe, auger bits, chisels, etc.) for building my shelter, as well as, my clothing, bedding, and various other in-sundries. . . .Everything I needed to live.

All told, and this is building up my supplies (other than food) over a 10 year period, I had spent about $5,200.

Now I do a lot of trading when I go to town. Don't spend nor need a lot of cash. The most expense I have is my sat. phone, which I use for my internet connection. Going to change that this coming March, so that expense will be cut by about 70%.

I have an outhouse (dug a 10'd x 5'l x 4'w) pit. Still a long way from being filled. That's my septic. I get my water from the river or falls, hunt & fish for my meat, etc.

I figure, if I'm going to live in mother Nature's livingroom, I'm going to use what she has to offer to live there. Not have it MANufactured in the city and bring it into her abode. I guess that's just me?! :confused1:

Anyway, you can live cheaply, if you choose, in the remote wilderness. It's just up to you how many "creature comforts" you need!

I am guessing you are single....

[Rick]

I'm guessing he's a complete fake and you are new to the forum. I won't make you guess where the introduction section is, however.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7813

[seeker1968]

I'm guessing he's a complete fake and you are new to the forum. I won't make you guess where the introduction section is, however.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7813

No I am not a fake, I just hang out on the bushcraftusa forum more. I have just started to catch up here. I am pretty new, but I am not sure how that makes me a fake lol.

My comment wasn't meant to be degrading, I actually envy the guy for being able to live that way, I just know my wife would not go along for the ride.

No offense meant. But I am wondering what your problem is...:smash:

[Rick]

I don't have one. You misread the post. Nativedude is a fake. He said he was from Alaska but his IP was from Detroit.

[Ken]

No I am not a fake, I just hang out on the bushcraftusa forum more. I have just started to catch up here. I am pretty new, but I am not sure how that makes me a fake lol.

My comment wasn't meant to be degrading, I actually envy the guy for being able to live that way, I just know my wife would not go along for the ride.

No offense meant. But I am wondering what your problem is...:smash:

No, no, no. Read that again. Rick wasn't calling you a fake. Nativedude is the fake. Every one of his threads and posts was pure bull$hit. The liar lives somewhere around Detroit.

Now, how about that introduction?

[Ken]

Rick, how about typing with only your left hand?

[Rick]

Dang, Ken, you had my back. Thanks!

[Sourdough]

No I am not a fake, I just hang out on the bushcraftusa forum more. I have just started to catch up here. I am pretty new, but I am not sure how that makes me a fake lol.

My comment wasn't meant to be degrading, I actually envy the guy for being able to live that way, I just know my wife would not go along for the ride.

No offense meant. But I am wondering what your problem is...:smash:


Rick was talking about Nativedude, and NOT you. Nativedude was a nice guy, but his story was fake. (Not True)

[Rick]

Dang! Even Sourdough had my back. I'm getting teary eyed.

[Ken]

Dang, Ken, you had my back. Thanks!

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x34/melocoton141/Loyalty.jpg

[Ken]

I don't have one. You misread the post. Nativedude is a fake. He said he was from Alaska but his IP was from Detroit.


No, no, no. Read that again. Rick wasn't calling you a fake. Nativedude is the fake. Every one of his threads and posts was pure bull$hit. The liar lives somewhere around Detroit.

Now, how about that introduction?


Rick was talking about Nativedude, and NOT you. Nativedude was a nice guy, but his story was fake. (Not True)

All for one, and one for all.

http://www.nyca.org/A4O3Musketeerswmin.JPG

[wareagle69]

i think ND posts should all be deleted so as not to mislead any noobs

[LowKey]

A moderator can just change his sig to something like "The Above Post is pure Bull**** from some guy in Detroit". That will appear in all his posts without need to gut the threads.

[Justin Case]

I have not read very many of his posts but the few i did see werent that bad, he may have lied about where he was but was the info flawed ? Just asking .

[LowKey]

Ok, so make the sig, "The above post is from a guy in Detroit who theorizes about living in the wild without actually having done it."

[crashdive123]

i think ND posts should all be deleted so as not to mislead any noobs


A moderator can just change his sig to something like "The Above Post is pure Bull**** from some guy in Detroit". That will appear in all his posts without need to gut the threads.


I have not read very many of his posts but the few i did see werent that bad, he may have lied about where he was but was the info flawed ? Just asking .


Ok, so make the sig, "The above post is from a guy in Detroit who theorizes about living in the wild without actually having done it."

Happy now? That disclaimer should let the "buyer beware".

[Justin Case]

Happy now? That disclaimer should let the "buyer beware".

ROFL,, ha ha,, Yep, That ought to do it ..
ND > :burst: < Crash

[Ken]

Happy now? That disclaimer should let the "buyer beware".

I love it. :thumbup1::clap::smash:

[Brazito]

Sunday we're (the wife doesn't know yet) going to look at 17 acres of get-a-way ground. Twenty miles to work, thirty minutes drive time. Mostly blufftop over-looking the Mississippi river valley. Mostly wooded, I'm guessing 3 acres of fields. Gravel driveway already in place to the top after that it's dirt. Less than 100 yards to add gravel to the potential building site. This will be a long term project, finish gravel driveway, dig well so we can camp out on the weekends, add electricity then someday build the home. I don't care if it takes me ten or more years till I live there, just owning it will improve my quality of life.

Now on a side note, for all the do-it-yourselfers: Buy a sawmill and build your own house. You can take a class on timberframing to build the basic structure frame (that's what I'm going to do). Here's a website: http://tfguild.org/ (http://tfguild.org/) Here's a website for timberframing classes: http://www.foxmaple.com/workshops.htmlWhen you're done either sell the sawmill or provide sawyer services to the locals. But you now have a skill that others will pay for (timberframing). Subscribe to Mother Earth News for alternative (sometimes free) ways of insulating the structure. There are several articles on the net for making your own solar panels and/or wind generators. If your build site includes a south face orientation passive solar heat goes a long way. We spent two winters in New Hampshire in a passive solar heated home. If the sun was out the house would be 71 degrees with no other heat source, outside temperature didn't matter. When the sun went down there was a small wood stove that kept the house comfy all night with one load of wood just before bed time. We used two cords of wood for the typical New Hampshire winter in this passive solar heated house, the neighbors used seven cords and ran out before warm weather. Their house wasn't passive solar.

[rwc1969]

That sounds real interesting. I love hearing about this kind of living. I don't have the ability, mainly resources, to do this kind of thing, but would hope that I might someday.

[DOGMAN]

I have a serious question for those whom choose to live in the remote wilderness, yet spend so much to live there. Why? :confused1:

Why do you need a well/running water, septic system, house building kit flown in, grid electricity, creature comforts (as city people call them)? :confused1: If your hep on having electricity there is solar (photovoltaic) or windmill (turbine) electricity.

When I first ventured out I had a Yurt that I bought used for $1,000 (still have it). I now use it as a base for my survival/primitive living courses. 50# of salt pork, potatoes, and powdered milk. 25# each of organic flour, rice, beans, and sugar. 10# of cinnamon, vanilla beans, cumin, raw garlic, garlic powder, and paprika. I also had 1 hen and 1 rooster, and various bundles of fresh herbs that I dried.

I had all of my tools (axe, auger bits, chisels, etc.) for building my shelter, as well as, my clothing, bedding, and various other in-sundries. . . .Everything I needed to live.

All told, and this is building up my supplies (other than food) over a 10 year period, I had spent about $5,200.

Now I do a lot of trading when I go to town. Don't spend nor need a lot of cash. The most expense I have is my sat. phone, which I use for my internet connection. Going to change that this coming March, so that expense will be cut by about 70%.

I have an outhouse (dug a 10'd x 5'l x 4'w) pit. Still a long way from being filled. That's my septic. I get my water from the river or falls, hunt & fish for my meat, etc.

I figure, if I'm going to live in mother Nature's livingroom, I'm going to use what she has to offer to live there. Not have it MANufactured in the city and bring it into her abode. I guess that's just me?! :confused1:

Anyway, you can live cheaply, if you choose, in the remote wilderness. It's just up to you how many "creature comforts" you need!


Ha Ha Ha....Why have I spent so much....because I actually live it....

[crashdive123]

The gift that keeps on giving.

[wildWoman]

Oh that's funny (or kinda sad and disillusioning, rather) that Nativedude was fake! I had my doubts - getting his firewood in summer by canoe and having a buddy who keeps flying supplies in for free, plus the amount of money he said he made with crafts -, but I liked the idea too much that somebody was able to do it so simply, I guess... Ah, well...

[crashdive123]

Good to see you back around.

[wildWoman]

Thanks, Crash :)

[Sourdough]

Welcome back Lady, We have really missed you.

[nell67]

Welcome back wildwoman!

[Rick]

It's about time!! Good to see you.

[wildWoman]

*waves with mittened hands*

[Nozon]

Well after all - I see my chances of living way bigger alone than with a sick society, who won't take responsibility for another human being, instead only blaming.
Then I got my study done, I'll leave with all the stuff and be gone as long as I can in the rain forest.
I know there will be a danger in living like this alone and especially in the rain forest. I'll leave everything behind me, so I don't see any reason not just to make a loan from the bank and then escape.

As I made a thread about, if anyone has any handful information or such for living in the rain forest I would be deeply thankful.

[Rick]

Yeah. You have to be pretty irresponsible to even consider taking a loan with no intentions of paying it back. That's stealing and would make you a thief. I have no desire to assist a thief. Have a good day.

[crashdive123]

Well after all - I see my chances of living way bigger alone than with a sick society, who won't take responsibility for another human being, instead only blaming.
Then I got my study done, I'll leave with all the stuff and be gone as long as I can in the rain forest.
I know there will be a danger in living like this alone and especially in the rain forest. I'll leave everything behind me, so I don't see any reason not just to make a loan from the bank and then escape.

As I made a thread about, if anyone has any handful information or such for living in the rain forest I would be deeply thankful.

You're the reason people want to escape. You're what is sick about society. You are the one that envisions taking advantage of your "fellow man". Good luck.

[gryffynklm]

Sounds like you guys have this conversation covered. I'll just second Rick and Cash.

[Rick]

I think the whole thing demonstrates his lack of maturity. I doubt he's 19 and if he is he sure has a lot of growing up to do.

[hunter63]

Sounds like you guys have this conversation covered. I'll just second Rick and Cash.

Plus 1, .......
Do they still do head hunting in the rain forest?

[Rick]

He want's to work out. How about we send him over to the cabin, Hunter, and have him finish cleaning that gulley out for you. You probably have some wood that needs split, too. We'll give him a survival book to read in his off time and he can practice surviving those Wisconsin winters. You don't care if he pitches a bedroll on the porch do you?

[BENESSE]

Hunter would take pity along the way. (I know a softie when I see one)
I vote for Kyrat to teach him a thing or two and then Sarky to provide the finishing school.

[hunter63]

No, that would be fine...even has a river to get water from, till it freezes.......and then there is the buckthorn that need cutting and can be used to fashion all sorts of 'stuff" from (up to you), couple of dead trees to hack down, and split up.....Sure that's the ticket.

While your at it, there are rocks for a free stone house and a shovel to dig a well, and only 2.49 miles from town..., not 249.....locals get kinda grouchy though....don't cross any fences with out asking.

[Rick]

I don't think anyone could survive being schooled by Kyrat and then Sarky. There are not enough years in a person's life to attend the number of counseling sessions they would need when they graduate.

[Wildthang]

*waves with mittened hands*

Hello Wildwomen, I'm Wildthang, good to meet you!

[Wildthang]

Nativedude just needs to join the Marines!

[Northern Horseman]

Right now I'm as close to living off the grid as I would like to be (willingly) the property my wife and I bought was a fixer upper that many people had tried in the past to make a go of. Their mistake was in taking out loans from the bank, once you have a loan they also require you to have fire insurance, not easy to get up here and very expensive at a minimum of 3000 per year and you have to lie as to how much wood you burn, and up here we all burn a lot of it.
I know of at least 4 close neighbors that have been burned out by chimney fires. I always have water on my stove in winter (my hot water tank) if I get a chimney fire that seems out of control (shutting the vents not stopping it) I throw about a liter of water in the stove and close the door very fast, so far the steam has always put it out (fingers crossed) this is with burning it hot twice per day and cleaning the chimney once per month, some times the creosote just builds up, granted mostly I burn pine as its plentiful. ( don't use two much water or you will put out the main fire in the stove as well)

We got a good deal on the property $90,000 for 110 acres with a house and a cabin/shop since been converted into cabin/tack room two stall barn (wife is a horse nut) about 60 of it is fenced, up here we build fences to keep cows out as its free range country and trust me cows are very destructive.
My wife and I can ride all day and easily avoid any of our neighbors fences.
By the way our place is 86 km from the nearest town plus we have to cross one free ferry (over a lake) we were lucky the place already had hydro from what I've heard it cost one of the former owners about twenty grand to put in.
most people that live up here own a tractor for at the very least snow removal as the driveways tend to be about a km long, some people pay the municipality to do their drive ways about $65.00 per hour $120 if you need the grader once the banks get too high.
Some people worry about moving here because of the roads in winter, but I find the roads better in winter than the rest of the year, as most roads are gravel they tend to be smoother in winter. (go figure)
Like most of my neighbors without lake front property we haul our water from the lake (300 gal tank on the back of the pickup) not easy in winter although enough people do it that a hole is always easy to open in the lake.
As you can imagine no water is ever wasted.
We've been gradually cutting down our horses, right now were down to five, we sold our stallion so no more babies to deal with every year. I'd like to get it down to just three, but I'm a bit of a dreamer lol
We use to only shop once a month, but my wife has taken up respite foster care to supplement our income so now we go to town trice a week as we have to pick up the native kids, another benefit is we are paid millage to pick up the kids, this helps with the cost of travel. I like the respite care as we only get the kids for the weekend twice a month (less stressful) and it helps pay the bills.
We've very slowly been renovating the cabin/barn over the last four years, as everyone mentions its expensive and we don't want to make the mistakes the other owners made by taking out loans so the whole process to completion is still a few years off (meaning a proper well and septic)
Until then we keep hauling water and using the out house, no big deal just part of life in the woods.
Our nearest neighbor is about two km away the next five, we all like it that way, we only see people if we want, but were all there for each other if we need help.
I never tire of the scenery as I travel to town and I am always glad to see the odd moose, bear or deer. the longer I live here the less I want to go to town, dirty smelly noisy and I have to lock the door of my car were I live I leave the keys in it most of the time.
I've heard stories from locals of some thievery in the neighborhood, but it was always handled internally (wink wink) I've only seen one cop car in the five years I've lived here and that was when a neighbors barn burned down (pack rats chewing the wires)
Thieves don't come here, its too far away, easier pickings on the other side of the lake, plus they might get intercepted crossing the ferry, we do have other roads out around the lake but add another two hours to your trip and carry a chain saw for fallen trees, always grab one after a wind storm, or just don't go to town that day (wait for the municipality to clean it up)
One of my new neighbors just bought his place 80 acres with two cabins, one small no water or sewer just power the other big but lots of repair to do for $50,000 this all sound cheap but remember most people have to buy it out right as it's very hard to qualify for a loan so far from a fire hall, banks just don't want the risk.
Bottom line it's a good life but as mentioned not an easy life and it can take some getting use to if your from the city, I would say it took three years to adjust and just be at peace.
Another thing to consider, phone service only came to our area about 12 years ago, I'm on dial up, this just about precludes me from any video and the rest can be painfully slow, my only other choice is satellite internet but thats very expensive.

[Daniel Nighteyes]

There are reasons why most of our historical "elders" only lived into their 40's or 50's. Northern Horseman's post pretty much sums them up.

Even in our current-day society (current urban-legend myths notwithstanding), the task of staying alive isn't easy. Without the support of our social and economic systems, it gets really difficult, & really questionable, really fast.

This, by itself, is the reason I advocate for the concept of "communal survival" rather than the "rugged individualist" concept that seems so popular. Even the most rugged individual needs to sleep, and should probably realize that he/she will be injured or sick from time to time.

That is, of course, unless the survivalist in question -- much like Bear Grylls -- wears a big "S" on his chest...:FRlol:

Regards to all,

-- Nighteyes

[Rick]

Does the S have to be on your chest? 'Cause I have this hong.........

[randyt]

super hong ??????

[crashdive123]

Trust me.....you don't want to know.

[randyt]

I don't want to know,nooooooooooooooooo!

[Rick]

You guys are pansies. Better a hong than a tattoo of a hong......if you catch my drift.

[Wildthang]

You guys are pansies. Better a hong than a tattoo of a hong......if you catch my drift.

Well the girls just bought me a new diamond studded hong, I know, now you want pictures:smartass:

[Rick]

Well, yeah, of the girls. The girls in the hong would be okay, too. Both girls in the hong would be swell. You don't need to be in any of the pics by the way. Just the girls.

[Power Giant]

We moved from SE Alaska to N Idaho in '96. It just cost too much to live how we wanted to up there. We bought 20 acres on a mountain top in cash in Idaho. No mortgages for me. Built a 24' X 30' stick frame cabin. Small means easy to heat, easy to clean. It's 2 miles to the nearest paved road and the electric lines. We make power from solar panels and a windmill for half the year (April thru September). It's fairly dark and cloudy here the rest of the year, so we make power with a propane generator during that time period. The nearest small town is about 15 miles away. I am a certified master mechanic, so people seek me out to do work for them and I am well compensated from doing that. My wife is a licensed guide and works at a dude ranch nearby, taking people on horseback riding trips. It snows ALOT here, there may be from seven to ten feet of it on the ground by mid winter. I keep my road open with an old Thiokol snow groomer that someone gave me. It didn't run and my son and I spent all summer rebuilding it. It keeps the road open no matter how deep the snow gets. Local people hire me to plow them out with it. Trees are very prolific here. I have logged the place three times now for profit and house siding and there are still plenty of trees left. The weather may be too harsh to grow much food here but, trees seem to grow well. To sum things up, I don't have alot of money into my place and it's not worth a whole lot. However, I have no debt and I am happy. I think that is a worthwhile goal in life and I have no regrets.

[Kudos]

Hi all
I live at the very edge of the Wilderness and truthfully the Winters can be very hard especially at higher altitude. Sure it toughens you up but it is not the Dream many think it is. To make it through a hard Winter requires forward planning and resources, both personal and actual. One very cold night a Breaker went out (broke) when we had just moved into the Mountains. At the time out only means of heating was electricity. The outside temperature was minus 17 with wind chill. With some ingenuity I managed to fix up something to get us through the night so we didn't freeze. You can bet your life that I found a solution to that this Winter and now have three separate means of keeping the place warm. So my point is that Wilderness living is great when everything is going well but miserable or worse when something you depend on Fails. But, the Summers are wonderful................

[DOGMAN]

wow...bringing back old stuff...what happened to Sourdough? I hate to see he is banned

[waynemanning84]

Sooooooo If Im reading this correctly some of you want to live OFF THE GRID with a DRIVEWAY........... OK. Sorry just my opinion..

[waynemanning84]

And how do ya get BANNED? is that what those green things below my username mean?

[hunter63]

Sooooooo If Im reading this correctly some of you want to live OFF THE GRID with a DRIVEWAY........... OK. Sorry just my opinion..

Yes, that's correct.....off grid means having your own resources for power, water, heat, septic........

[waynemanning84]

Oh I get all that it just seemed that some people were posting some things that were a little lavish for my tastes and again it was merely my opinion. I have a cabin the goal is to live there permadently but I wheeler in no driveway have a windmill and car alternator setup for power on a 12 volt setup with inverters my water comes from a stream my septic is an outhouse woodstove for heat.

[Rick]

And how do ya get BANNED?

You fail to follow the forum rules. Either blatantly or repeatedly....usually.


is that what those green things below my username mean?

No. Those are reputation points. When you post something someone thinks was good they can give you rep. The more times that happens the more green thingies you get.

You can read up on here. I probably need to update this a bit. We've turned off negative reputation.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?3951-All-About-Reputation

[waynemanning84]

oh cool. thanks sorry to ask that here but it kinda came up on this blog. And thnks again for explaining

[hunter63]

Oh I get all that it just seemed that some people were posting some things that were a little lavish for my tastes and again it was merely my opinion. I have a cabin the goal is to live there permadently but I wheeler in no driveway have a windmill and car alternator setup for power on a 12 volt setup with inverters my water comes from a stream my septic is an outhouse woodstove for heat.

Each to his own.
Off grid can mean self-sufficient cabin on the south facing hill side.........or subsistent hunter/gatherer life style, somewhat harder to do these days as land ownership, laws, taxes and other trapping of civilization are hard to avoid.

[yippyfreakingskippy]

well heres what I figure when the badness hits it isn't going to matter where you live how much you paid. you better have real means to defend it

[Power Giant]

well heres what I figure when the badness hits it isn't going to matter where you live how much you paid. you better have real means to defend it

It definitely does matter where you live. For those that live near population dense areas, they will probably have a harder time of it. This thread, however is not about SHTF scenarios. It is about people's experiences living in or near wilderness. For comparison, the state of Idaho has 4,523,215 acres of designated wilderness, and an additional 9,000,000 acres of designated roadless areas. While the state of New York has 1,380 acres of wilderness and 0 roadless areas. The state of Alaska has 57,425,215 acres of designated wilderness. The population of New York state is 19,651,127 while the population of Idaho is 1,612,136 and Alaska's population is 735,132. And Wyoming has quite less people than Alaska does. To me, wilderness is about human population density, not whether there is a road leading to your place, or not. After all, in the Mojave desert, you don't need a road to go where you want to, you just go.

[Enigma]

40 acres. Large cabin with caravan. 800metre drive, all fences done. No power, water or electricity. Approx $90,000.

sit back and chill, and enjoy life. A $600 gennie and petrol brings all the creature comforts one needs.

[hunter63]

40 acres. Large cabin with caravan. 800metre drive, all fences done. No power, water or electricity. Approx $90,000.

sit back and chill, and enjoy life. A $600 gennie and petrol brings all the creature comforts one needs.

That's a good price.......
In Wisconsin, USA... most prices start $2000 per acre....just land, no building.......actually smaller acreage being more money.

We really got civilized....Dish TV and a portable Wifi modem......

[7whitewolf7]

I have found my future people! (I wish)
But how can you joke about sending someone to get tought by multiple people, I would skin a demon for that chance!
Oh, the sadness. Lucky for me I'm starting early, the more time you have to work up to it the cheaper it will be, and if you have a place to stay while you develop your land, all the better!
And I think having a driveway (even if just dirt, as long as it is kept up) is an excellent idea, you never know. I find it hard to imagine there are soem who would try to do without one. But I love the idea of doing it yourself! That is one thing that appeals to me, I think one thing that makes living like that easy are the projects you take up to improve the place. Also having a trade, or job to get funds. I'm going to be a little sneaky because with the career I'm planning I could use my own land to host classes and teach them. Bwahahaha!!!

[scumbucket]

fI can't believe this, you put in a driveway, great access for thieves. I have ten acres, bought a ten by sixteen shed that was delivered free cause I paid cash, $3400 fpr it. I have a hand dug well, great water, a generator for a fridge and a freezer, I brought them with when I sold my house. My driveway is dirt, but plenty of rock so its an all weather road, naturally. I have less than fifteen thousand in my place, been living here for some ten years after a divorce. Am building an underground shelter for my supplies where it won't be found. I've done most everything myself. built my own guns, bows and arrows, knives etc..

[Survival Enthusiast]

I know this post is old I'm sorry I'm new to this and don't know how to post a new thread!! Can people please send ok private msg or reply to this comment so I no I get it for sure ANYWAYS I'm looking to get out in to the wilderness for a few years if not longer now I want to be able to have my atv and be able to go from place to place travel to different parts in the wilderness and just live with out Society and I was thinking Alaska does anybody have any suggestions kind a down to a area by chance

[JaimecWI]

Hello! I found your post super helpful. We are in the beginning process of purchasing a cabin from Hillcrest. Anything you would change with your cabin or tips on working with Hillcrest? I have a hard time getting a hold of them a lot of the time. Can you send some pictures of your cabin when you got it? Your links below didn't work for me. Thanks!

[crashdive123]

Not sure you will get a response from the original poster Since his post is 13.5 years old and he hasn't logged on in 6 years. You never know though - maybe somebody else will be able to help. Glad you asked, and welcome to the forum.