wet leaves

[snakeman]

Lets say it is late fall in a deciduas(sp) forest and it is wet and is raining off and on. The temperatures at night are in the 20's. I woud think that a debris hut would be good, but i am not sure if wet leaves or pine straw or grass would chill you even more, or if they would still insulate and keep you warm? If you could get a fire going, would it be better to have a lean-to with a fire reflecting wall (with a fire)?

[crashdive123]

If you gather your debris after moving the top, wet layer away, you will have dry debris for your shelter.

[wareagle69]

you would be fine in the debris hut
there are 5 ways of loosing heat conduction, convection, radiation, persperation, respiration, at night you are worried about loosing to convection, so you get out of the elements which keeps the wind from robbing heat from you, conduction, well make sure you can put something between you and the pile of leaves that you want to sleep on, also radiation is limited for a couple of reasons, one being that if its cloudy it will be warmer, and being inside the shelter will help your heat stay trapped in it, if it is a light rain and you have chossen the right spot a reflector fire could help radiate the heat back into the shelter also helping to dry it out

[Rick]

I've actually done this. The lean to or the debris hut is the pits without some kind of barrier; poncho or tarp. Temperatures in the 20s will not only put ice between the layers but also freeze dirt and other debris in with the leaves. You'll be hard pressed to separate out anything that's dry. Either type of shelter is good as long as you keep the lean to down wind or wind at your back.

Since this is a deciduous forest you should have a fair number of pine/spruce around. Beneath the bows the needles will be fairly dry or even completely dry depending on how hard it has been raining.

Build your shelter using the poncho or tarp as a barrier to keep the wet crap off of you. Trust me, a nice fire and it won't be long before you have dirt and other junk dripping down on you if you don't. Then fill you bed area with the dry needles to keep you off the wet ground.

It's a lot of work so if you have a tent, use it.....just sayin'.

[wareagle69]

if he has a credit card he could use that too, motel 8, i hear tom modet leaves the light on.
but yes good point on a plastic barrier of some type, the key being if you have it, this goes along with, in what circumstance are you builing this shelter, would you have stopped early enough in the day to start builiding it and get a fire going to help dry it out? with the pine forest i have found that lots of layers of pine then all the leaf litter on top of that helps shed any water well, i actually like cutting offf alot of the low haning branches anyways helps with my trail system and then i use them as a foundation for my huts, sure the leaves of the poplar that i use here may blow away but the pine stays in place then when i need the shelter i can just replace some of the debris, allan has some huts that are still useable after 4 years

[snakeman]

Thanks for the help. I will see if I can find some dry pine needles next time it rains. THe problem is that most of the pines around here are tall without a lot of boughs and they are all at the very top. The rain gets through easier. I do notice, however, that shortly after a rain, the dead branches in hemlocks and ceders are usually dry. Would that provide any insulation. If i could't find any dry material, would damp bedding be bad or would it still insulate?

[crashdive123]

Damp bedding - unless you can cover it with some sort of ground cloth - will drain the heat from you faster than dry bedding will.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

there is nothing worse than trying to sleep in a driping shelter as you lay on wet leaves for bedding in falling temps. it is the most miserable condition to endure. when i lived in Boston i camped out in a A frame shelter that i covered with fallen leaves after a rain laden ice storm. the water wouldnt freeze because of my small fire so the shelter leaked and dripped. the moisture penetrated my clothes. that was a rough 3 days.

[owl_girl]

wet leaves on top of your shelter wont make you any colder unless they touch you. if its 20 out the wet leaves will freez which is good if there not touching you cause it will keep the rain from coming trough

[owl_girl]

Damp bedding - unless you can cover it with some sort of ground cloth - will drain the heat from you faster than dry bedding will.
if you cover wet ground or bedding with a tarp it will still suck more heat out of you unless you insulate it with something dry.

[sh4d0wm4573ri7]

believe the outside will freeze solid providing good heat retention a few hot rocks inside i would be quite comfy im sure

[crashdive123]

The problem, as Rick said - if the debris is wet and freezes - and then you provide a heat source inside - things could get a bit damp on the inside as all that frozen stuff turns back into liquid stuff.

[NightShade]

Think like a squirrel... small area inside a large debris hut..... thick walls.... I have made many debris huts over the years... I had some huge ones that were really "cool" and had plenty of room to stretch out in... but the ones that worked best were barely big enough for me to fit in , with a massive amount of debris surrounding me.

[Rick]

Snakeman - I'm guessing you have older growth pines. Look for much younger trees. Think Christmas tree and you'll have the idea. Cedar, Spruce, even Yews are often very low branching trees. We have some old growth white pine around here that the first limbs are probably 25 feet in the air. Pretty hard to get to them.