I Honestly Believe.........

[Ken]

I honestly believe that if our founding fathers were alive today they would be seeking ways to form an entirely new government.

Our founding fathers dismissed the idea of naming George Washington as our first king - Washington himself opposed it. Our new democracy loathed the concept of royalty.

Somehow, it's happened. We now have a royalty class in our nation and in our states and cities. Elected officials, appointed officials, judges and many public employees have enveloped themselves in so many perks and benefits and protections that they have effectively placed themselves into a position of royalty. They treat themselves far better than the law treats the common guy, and they are virtually immune to public opinion and criticism. And they have brought the large contributors (big business) into their royal court.

Sure, we can defeat certain politicians, but the SYSTEM will stay in place, and even the bums we turn out of office will enjoy a lifetime of benefits at taxpayer expense - the best of golden parachutes. Judges, with lifetime appointments, are the highest form of royalty.

Massachusetts passed a term limits law by voter referendum several years ago. The legislature promptly repealed this law, claiming that the people didn't understand what they voted for. Come the next election, most of them were returned to office.

What the hell are the people thinking? How have we let this happen?

[Rick]

Ken, it's been that way since day 1. We like to wax philosophical about how grand the founding fathers were. B. Franklin stole about half the crap he printed in Poor Richards Alamanac including the name...from his own brother. He left his wife alone for years while he went cavorting on week-end orgies.

56 signers of the Declaration were Masons
29 signers of the Constitution were Masons
74 Generals of the Continental Army were Masons

They didn't believe in the concept of royalty. They WERE royalty. They were set apart from the average "American". Why do you think some of them wanted the first President to be a king?

I'm not taking anything away from what they did. It was monumental and a first of its kind. But now, over 200 years later, we want to paint them with a broad white brush when they were a lot more gray than we would like to believe.

[Ken]

You know, Rick, I sit back and see the perks handed out. Things the common guy would never in a million years receive.

I think about the tens of millions of public dollars spent on a funeral over the last couple of days. And I think, okay, I disagree with that expenditure, but I can understand why others feel it's the right thing to do.

But then, I think back about 10 years ago when a private plane carrying three private citizens crashed into the ocean off the Massachusetts coast. Again, tens of millions of dollars spent on recovering that plane and its occupants. If it had been almost any other plane, the Coast Guard would have sent a couple of boats and maybe a helicopter to look for wreckage. The Civil Air patrol may have searched for a day. Then it would have been over. It's just not right that some are treated so differently than others and that the public simply accepts it.

Congress is considering massive health insurance changes that will never be equal to the coverage they have provided for themselves.

They have already bailed out selected corporations and winked at the subsequent bonuses those corporations have paid to their executives, many of whom have now been appointed to government positions supervising the very corporations where they worked.

Mandates upon mandates upon mandates are being passed everyday. Government seems to be seeking a way to control our every act and how we spend every dollar we earn. What will be next? Our thoughts?

Courts regularly make bizzare rulings that are given stamps of approval by higher courts. Judges practically demand that you genuflect before them.

Elected officials openly admit that the legislation they pass is strictly political.

Evil winds are blowing stronger than ever, and I genuinely fear for our future with the government and the system we have in place.

Maybe I'm trying to sound an alarm here. But how will it work when so few are willing to listen?

[Sarge47]

I honestly believe that you're "preachin' to the choir" 'ole buddy; I don't think anybody here is gonna disagree with you! :cool2:

[Pal334]

I am in the choir for sure. I mentioned on another thread, use your vote! I of course mean that to the population at large. Vote against every incumbent. Do little things, refuse to shake a politicians hand (I have done this for years), it makes them reflexively ask why I won't shake a politicians hand, then you can blast them with your version of distaste and disgust. I know they are small things, but little things add up

[2dumb2kwit]

Yeah, but if we show up at town hall meetings with a pitch fork, they call us crazy!!!:innocent:


That's what gets me more than anything. They act like we are crazy, for being ticked off about what they do!

[Pal334]

Yeah, but if we show up at town hall meetings with a pitch fork, they call us crazy!!!:innocent:


That's what gets me more than anything. They act like we are crazy, for being ticked off about what they do!

But it does work to a degree. Think of all of the town hall meetings on Health Reform and the noise it made. It has at least temporaly slowed down that madness. What really will drive them nuts locally is doing it calmly and rationally, that is a danger they listen to, because they know you are not a flash in the pan. Then put anti incumbent signs in your front yard at election time.

[doug1980]

I am probably wrong in doing this but I try not to worry about it. People in those positions got there by being greedy, two-faced, and not having any morals. It takes a lot of a$$ kissing to get it those positions so for us to expect anything less is absurd. Our system has been corrupt since it started and always will be. Honestly is there any system that really works for the "people?" There is no perfect solution and never will be. We allow our politicians to get away with this because we are either too scared to do anything, or sometimes too stupid too see it. And even if we were to topple the current system....what then? Who would get to decide what system we use then? Would it really be any better than what we currently have. I agree that it sucks but it could be worse and will probably never get better either.

[2dumb2kwit]

I am probably wrong in doing this but I try not to worry about it. People in those positions got there by being greedy, two-faced, and not having any morals. It takes a lot of a$$ kissing to get it those positions so for us to expect anything less is absurd. Our system has been corrupt since it started and always will be. Honestly is there any system that really works for the "people?" There is no perfect solution and never will be. We allow our politicians to get away with this because we are either too scared to do anything, or sometimes too stupid too see it. And even if we were to topple the current system....what then? Who would get to decide what system we use then? Would it really be any better than what we currently have. I agree that it sucks but it could be worse and will probably never get better either.

Don't give up so easy. Pal is exactly right. There were enough people at those meetings, being calm and orderly, but making it know that they didn't like what was happening, that it scared the crap out of the polititians.

You see...the only thing these people fear, is losing their power.....and all those people at the meetings said point blank, if you try to pull this crap, you're out of there!

[doug1980]

Don't give up so easy. Pal is exactly right. There were enough people at those meetings, being calm and orderly, but making it know that they didn't like what was happening, that it scared the crap out of the polititians.

You see...the only thing these people fear, is losing their power.....and all those people at the meetings said point blank, if you try to pull this crap, you're out of there!

That may be until....they come up with another crazy scheme then another. It will never end. Or they will start getting smarter, which they have, and hide there motives better. It just keeps getting worse and worse.

[2dumb2kwit]

That may be until....they come up with another crazy scheme then another. It will never end. Or they will start getting smarter, which they have, and hide there motives better. It just keeps getting worse and worse.

We have the best system in the world, but it has to be maintained. They don't have the power to do anything stupid, unless we give it to them.

Not taking part, and seeing to it that things are running smoothly, is like sitting in your recliner, complaining about the weeds in your garden. You can either say, why bother with a garden, the weeds will just take it over, and go hungry, or you can get off your arse, pull the dang weeds, and enjoy the bounty.:smash:

[Rick]

Holy crap!! Let me get this straight...every politician in every position from town council to the White House is crooked. Not a single one of them is there because they truly want to serve. Oh, and every CEO is a dirty no goodnick. Damn near a communist. Oh, yeah, and all bankers are heathens. Doctors pretty much dispense medicine so they can cash big fat checks. Lawyers are all jerks that could care less about justice. Union people don't care about anything but their own personal benefits. Certainly not about the product they produce. And, of course, white collar professionals are just here to oppress the blue collar union guys. Yankees don't trust Southerners and Red Necks don't care for City slickers. Is there anyone on the planet I left out?

The bottom line is if they are getting something I ain't then I hate 'em. Let me end this the way I started. Holy crap!!

[Rick]

http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q348/safe_zone/whining.png

[Rick]

I'm afraid so Gunny.

[Swamprat1958]

I honestly believe that you're "preachin' to the choir" 'ole buddy; I don't think anybody here is gonna disagree with you! :cool2:

The alleged royalty in Massachusetts is a liberal farce. Most of the family fortune came from illegal activities during the depression. The recently deceased should have been convicted of murder. What else do we need to know to understand that the media and the liberal elite on the east coast created the royalty scenario. They certainly don't deserve the accolades they have received since the 60s.

OK, I got that off my chest. Now that he is buried, lets forget about the guy and get on with life.

[Rick]

Man, that's cold. The guy just died. The royalty referenced here was from 1776. Probably his grandfather.

[doug1980]

Holy crap!! Let me get this straight...every politician in every position from town council to the White House is crooked. Not a single one of them is there because they truly want to serve. Oh, and every CEO is a dirty no goodnick. Damn near a communist. Oh, yeah, and all bankers are heathens. Doctors pretty much dispense medicine so they can cash big fat checks. Lawyers are all jerks that could care less about justice. Union people don't care about anything but their own personal benefits. Certainly not about the product they produce. And, of course, white collar professionals are just here to oppress the blue collar union guys. Yankees don't trust Southerners and Red Necks don't care for City slickers. Is there anyone on the planet I left out?

The bottom line is if they are getting something I ain't then I hate 'em. Let me end this the way I started. Holy crap!!

That pretty much sums it up. Good observation Rick. :clap:

[SARKY]

TO ALL OF YOU!
Just look at California, we are so in the crapper financially, Now how could that be? After all we were the 4th or 5th largest economy in the WORLD! And who has been running the show here for the past 3 decades? Why the liberal/progressive/fascists! AND YES they are fascists, if you want examples of why I say that please ask and I will supply them. These idiots have been handing out our tax dollars to every lowlife and illeagal they meet. San Francisco is filled with BUMS.... not homeless people, BUMS! And they are untouchable, they have more rights than the taxpayers do. So how do these incompetant boobs keep getting elected???? Can you say voter fraud! As in illeagals being bussed around to vote at several polling places. By law ID's are supposed to be checked... i've never seen it happen!
Is it time for a second American Revolution? maybe so, Have any of you been listening to or watching Glenn Beck? If not do so. also check out his web site and get his free newsletter. He is neither left or right, he believes and rightly so that both parties are tag teaming us to their bennefit.
my 2 cents

[Pal334]

All I am saying that each person take person responsibility (I know, a radical thought) and do what they think is right to work wihin the system for change. And not all politicians are corrupt, but they need help to make change.

[Rick]

Here are some rhetorical questions that might help at the grassroots level. If you are disenchanted with the political situation in your (fill in the blank, city, county, state, whatever) have you...

1. Volunteered for the party of your choice? Doesn't have to be the big two. You'll gain some interesting insights by doing so and get to know some of the politicians on a first hand basis. You can volunteer on the local, state or national level.

2. Run for a political office?

3. Seek out political appointments?

4. Stay in contact with your politicians? (city council, mayor, governor, representative, senator)

5. Have you registered to vote?

6. Do you vote in all elections?

7. Do you belong to any advocacy organizations? (groups that promote specific agendas)

8. Do you volunteer your resources to the advocacy organization?

9. Do you learn all sides of an issue or do you just read those articles that match your own beliefs dismissing those with opposing beliefs?

10. Do you believe ranting about a topic is more important than actually doing something about it?

Okay, that last one was a bit tongue in cheek but it's easy to rail about any subject. It's amazing how many do but don't care enough to do anything about it. My theory on life, and you can call it Rick's Theorem (or not) is there are three groups of folks in this world.

1. On one end is a small segment of society that will never be be able to overcome their position in life. It's simply not possible. The most extreme example would be someone in a coma.

2. On the opposite end is a small segment of society that will overcome any obstacle because of their attitude and drive. They simply persevere. I find a LOT of folks with disabilities in this category.

3. Finally, the vast majority of folks fall into the middle ground. They are quite content to sit around and bit** and moan about (pick a subject) but they are not SO bothered that they will do anything about it.

[NightShade]

Personally I think the biggest problem is the apathy and laziness with the general population of sheeple.... More and more people are starting to wake up but most of them simply whine about it and won't even bother to vote.... Voting is more than your right it is your responsibility!!!! Term -limits is just a scam to make people more apathetic and pay even less attention to what's goin on... the thinkin being "Oh well, they'll be outta office in _ years anyways, nothing I can do about it." More people will simply wait for something to happen then make something happen.... that being said it was the will of the people and they should have listened to us... but it was no different than when we voted for clean elections or a reduced tax rate... they decided they knew better than us and went against the will of the people... that's Mass for you!..... the worst part is that most of the sheeple don't even care!!!

[Ken]

1. Volunteered for the party of your choice? Doesn't have to be the big two. You'll gain some interesting insights by doing so and get to know some of the politicians on a first hand basis. You can volunteer on the local, state or national level. DONE THAT

2. Run for a political office? RAN AND HELD OFFICE FOR 6 YEARS. BEING ON THE INSIDE REALLY MAKES YOU WANNA' PUKE. YOU WOULDN'T BELIEVE THE SLIMEY BACKROOM WHEELING AND DEALING AND POLITICAL FAVORS AND POLITICAL RETALIATION THAT GOES ON. DON'T BOTHER GOING TO THE PRESS - I DID THAT - MOST LOCAL REPORTERS ARE LAZY AND CLUELESS.

3. Seek out political appointments? TRADE YOUR MORALS FOR A JOB THAT REQUIRES YOU TO DO POLITICAL DIRTY-WORK AND KISS @SS TO EARN A LIVING? EVER HEAR OF A "RUBBER STAMP?"

4. Stay in contact with your politicians? (city council, mayor, governor, representative, senator) HOW DO YOU MAINTAIN CONTACT WITH PEOPLE WHO ALWAYS LOOK YOU STRAIGHT IN THE FACE AND LIE THROUGH THEIR TEETH?

5. Have you registered to vote? THE DAY I TURNED 18

6. Do you vote in all elections? NEVER MISSED ONE

7. Do you belong to any advocacy organizations? (groups that promote specific agendas) SEVERAL

8. Do you volunteer your resources to the advocacy organization? MORE TIMES THAN I CAN REMEMBER

9. Do you learn all sides of an issue or do you just read those articles that match your own beliefs dismissing those with opposing beliefs? I READ 10 NEWSPAPERS A DAY - LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE PRESS.

10. Do you believe ranting about a topic is more important than actually doing something about it? PLEASE REFER TO THE ABOVE.

[Rick]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rhetorical

[Ken]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sarcastic

[Ken]

One example of the lies........

"Former MBTA general manager Daniel A. Grabauskas, speaking publicly for the first time since being forced to resign last week, said today that he believes he was pushed out because the Patrick administration needed a scapegoat to blame for a proposed fare increase."

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/08/grabauskas_i_wa.html

[2dumb2kwit]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rhetorical

He can't help it, Rick. He want's everybody to know what he thinks.
(I'm just glad that he answered in red, and not pink!)

[Pal334]

As free people we have the responsibility to be involved.What we have now is a system that "free people: have allowed to happen.

[pocomoonskyeyes]

OK I Don't vote - why? My (or yours) vote is merely a formality an Illusion of some form of Controlling our Destiny. Let's face it we now have "Royalty" whether we like it or not. The "Electoral College" is really who decides these things... It has already happened with one President in my lifetime, since then I haven't Voted... it's pointless. The "legislature" decides what laws are passed and so much is "snuck in" that even THEY don't know what they are voting on!! Even IF the Founding Fathers were around, They would be screaming for revolt.(They did it then,they'd do it now) Homeland Security has already declared EVERY veteran a potential Terrorist. No one even realizes how Dangerously close to a potential Dictatorship we are. Look at what Ken has already pointed out about "officials" remaining in office, LONG after they should've been out. HS is just a mere formality away from becoming the next Gestapo. I agree with Swamprat, the "dearly Departed" should have been tried for murder... More than once, yet never was even charged much less tried. Had that been me I would've already been executed. Don't fool yourselves. I've said what I felt needed saying, you can criticize, or chastise. It won't change what I believe. As a matter of fact what I have said very closely comes to Sedition. What most of us are saying very closely comes to Sedition, so be careful how you word what you say.
'Nuff said, We now return you to your regularly scheduled Forum.

[Pal334]

Poco,,, Not to "worry" our exchange of ideas and views is not sedition. I do sort of agree what you are saying at the national level, but won't keep me from trying. I think our best chance of some sort of change is on our local level. Keeping our elected Bubbas feet to the fire. These are folks on your local streets, business men etc. Stay in the system and make them sweat. Only my opinion also . Ain't Democracy Grand ? :)

[Ken]

Poco,,, Not to "worry" our exchange of ideas and views is not sedition. I do sort of agree what you are saying at the national level, but won't keep me from trying. I think our best chance of some sort of change is on our local level. Keeping our elected Bubbas feet to the fire. These are folks on your local streets, business men etc. Stay in the system and make them sweat. Only my opinion also . Ain't Democracy Grand ? :)

Pal, I wish that could work. Unfortunately, local politics is controlled by state mandates and the reliance on state funding, and state politics is controlled by federal mandates and the reliance on federal funding.

Politicians just suck up to higher level politicians because the top guys control the vast majority of the dollars.

[Rick]

Actually, Poco, he was charged and pleaded guilty to leaving the scene of an accident. But I get your point.

I suppose I could extend your same reasoning and say, "No sense in going to the doctor. I"m going to die some day anyway."

The problem is that far too many folks feel exactly as you do. That's why the bad ones stay in office as long as they do. No one shows up at the polls to vote them out.

As for the electoral college, if you do away with it then the small states are forgotten in the election. Populace states like New York and California carry the popular vote. Period. The electoral college lends some measure of value to small states such as Minnesota and Wisconsin because, together, they hold 21 electoral votes (10 and 11 respectively).

Here are some numbers you all can digest. For the 2008 elections, there were 231,229,580 old enough to vote in this country. Of that number, 132,618,580 actually voted. That's a 57.35% turn out and 2008 saw one of the largest voter turn outs in a long time. That leaves 98,611,000 votes not placed!!!!! 98 Million!!!!!

Don't like the way it's going (Do like the way its going)? Get out and vote.

[Ken]

How To Become A Political Legend

Be born into a wealthy family. Choose a father who bootlegged liquor during prohibition or, in more modern times, a father who ran a major drug cartel.

Get caught cheating at Harvard. Get expelled. Have Daddy pull some strings to have you readmitted. Graduate. Return in later years to receive honorary degrees.

Enlist in the Army, but mistakenly sign up for four years instead of two. Oops! Have Daddy pull the necessary strings to have your enlistment shortened to two years, and to ensure that you serve in France, not somewhere where a war is raging.

While in law school, get cited for reckless driving four times. Drive 90 miles per hour in a residential neighborhood with your headlights off after dark.

Attend a party on a resort island in Massachusetts. Get wasted. At about 11:00 p.m., borrow a car and offer to give a young lady a ride home. Leave the island via an unlit bridge with no guard rail, steer the car off the bridge, flip it over and into the water. Leave the young lady scratching at the upholstered floor above her head in the upside-down car as it fills with water. Swim to shore and walk back to the party, passing several houses on your way. Have a couple more drinks. Return to the scene of the accident with two friends. Make your way to your hotel, call your lawyer, and go to sleep. Wake up the next morning, shower, change into fresh clothes, and enjoy breakfast with the morning edition of the Boston Globe. After breakfast, call the police – after the wrecked car with the corpse inside has been discovered. Have your family begin 'calling in favors', ensuring that any inquiry will be contained. Have the body whisked out-of-state before an autopsy can be conducted. Have the local chief of police arrange for the chief elected official of the community to get you to the airport and off the island before things really start heating up. Months later, plead guilty to leaving the scene of an accident, and accept a SUSPENDED SENTENCE OF TWO MONTHS.

Spend the next few decades championing misguided causes before the cameras during the day and then get drunk and go whoring with your nephews at night. Cheat on your wife regularly.

Draft, sponsor, and pass legislation from which you yourself are exempt. Make sure enough people get government handouts so that you can continue a family tradition of brainwashing the public and thus continue to get re-elected. Be known as “the distinguished Senator.”

Die in the lap of luxury while receiving the best possible medical care (provided by an elite insurance plan at taxpayer expense) otherwise unavailable to the general public.

[Rick]

So, let me ask you this. How do you feel about your former Senator?

[Pal334]

Pal, I wish that could work. Unfortunately, local politics is controlled by state mandates and the reliance on state funding, and state politics is controlled by federal mandates and the reliance on federal funding.

Politicians just suck up to higher level politicians because the top guys control the vast majority of the dollars.

I don't disagree. What maddens me is when people abdicate their responsibility to try to change things. I see a great deal of concern, and some very valid information and views here. Lets do something about it!!! Work in the system. Any attempts to make a change by unlawful methods does nothing other than to feed the pigs in charge (I use the term pigs to illustrate that they feed at the trough).Teach your kids their responsibilities!!! Honor those that came before us!!! Do something!!! Mmmm thats alot of exclaimation marks :)

[pocomoonskyeyes]

Poco,,, Not to "worry" our exchange of ideas and views is not sedition. I do sort of agree what you are saying at the national level, but won't keep me from trying. I think our best chance of some sort of change is on our local level. Keeping our elected Bubbas feet to the fire. These are folks on your local streets, business men etc. Stay in the system and make them sweat. Only my opinion also . Ain't Democracy Grand ? :)

From Wikipedia:

Sedition is a term of law which refers to overt conduct, such as speech and organization, that is deemed by the legal authority as tending toward insurrection against the established order. Sedition often includes subversion of a constitution and incitement of discontent (or resistance) to lawful authority. Sedition may include any commotion, though not aimed at direct and open violence against the laws. Seditious words in writing are seditious libel. A seditionist is one who engages in or promotes the interests of sedition.

Typically, sedition is considered a subversive act, and the overt acts that may be prosecutable under sedition laws vary from one legal code to another. Where the history of these legal codes has been traced, there is also a record of the change in the definition of the elements constituting sedition at certain points in history. This overview has served to develop a sociological definition of sedition as well, within the study of state persecution.

The difference between sedition and treason consists primarily in the subjective ultimate object of the violation to the public peace. Sedition does not consist of levying war against a government nor of adhering to its enemies, giving enemies aid, and giving enemies comfort. Nor does it consist, in most representative democracies, of peaceful protest against a government, nor of attempting to change the government by democratic means (such as direct democracy or constitutional convention).

Sedition is the stirring up of rebellion against the government in power. Treason is the violation of allegiance to one's sovereign or state, giving aid to enemies, or levying war against one's state. Sedition is encouraging one's fellow citizens to rebel against their state, whereas treason is actually betraying one's country by aiding and abetting another state. Sedition laws somewhat equate to terrorism and public order laws.

Still think we are not skating on VERY thin Ice? Maybe it is more of "Seditious Libel" than actual Sedition, but close enough.

[Ken]

So, let me ask you this. How do you feel about your former Senator?

Ask me a different question. Ask me how many times I expressed my feelings directly to him. Face-to-face.

[canid]

i'll bite: how many?

[Ken]

Four times. :)

[Pal334]

Sedition is a term of law which refers to overt conduct, such as speech and organization, that is deemed by the legal authority as tending toward insurrection against the established order. Sedition often includes subversion of a constitution and incitement of discontent (or resistance) to lawful authority. Sedition may include any commotion, though not aimed at direct and open violence against the laws. Seditious words in writing are seditious libel. Seditious words in writing are seditious libel.

I do not see anyone here advocating insurrection against established order: All seem to be voicing opinions, which is legal.

Sedition often includes subversion of a constitution and incitement of discontent (or resistance) to lawful authority. Who is advocating subversion of the constitution? Only exercising their rights to free speech.

Sedition may include any commotion, though not aimed at direct and open violence against the laws. Same as above, just exercising freedom of speech.

Seditious words in writing are seditious libel. What has been written here that would meet or fit this?

Seditious words in writing are seditious libel. Fairly straight forward, nothing here fits this.

My intent is not to argue with you, I do respect your opinions and views. I am just hoping to not have this discuss take on connotations that are not there.

[Skysoldier]

I feel like my vote is worthless. Why? Because, when groups like ACORN are allowed to become instrumental in elections it pretty much makes me feel like I don't need to waste my time voting. The Black Panthers, ACORN and other groups like them have far too much control and are allowed to use it with impunity. My wife and I have voted in almost every election since we were legal to vote, and we finally said -"ENOUGH!!!" Our vote has NEVER changed anything the way we want, and, honestly, the reason anyone votes is for change the way they want it. So, we won't bother to vote again. Yeah, I know... if we don't like it we need to vote to change it. BS! It don't work that way now. I truly believe most of this stimulus money went to repay campaign debts, to ACORN and the unions, among others.
OK. That's my political speech for this year. No more.

[pocomoonskyeyes]

Poco,,, Not to "worry" our exchange of ideas and views is not sedition. I do sort of agree what you are saying at the national level, but won't keep me from trying. I think our best chance of some sort of change is on our local level. Keeping our elected Bubbas feet to the fire. These are folks on your local streets, business men etc. Stay in the system and make them sweat. Only my opinion also . Ain't Democracy Grand ? :)

Pal it does not matter if you put the local boys FEET IN THE FIRE they would rather have their feet burned entirely off than be denied access to the "Big dogs" purse strings. "Federal Funding" runs roughshod over what the Local "good ol' boys" would Rather do 9 times out of 10. Do this or lose your funding has been told to local governments more times than I care to think about. If you have to "Build a house" and only have $2000 But your Uncle has enough to build a mansion for you...providing you only have to follow a few "Guidelines" you are probably going to let him "Bully" you into that Mansion. So it goes with Local Gov't.

[Pal334]

Ok, OK,, it is obvious that I am in the minority. I do respect and understand the views expressed. I don't completely agree with the apathy. I will continue to do what I do.

[pocomoonskyeyes]

Sedition often includes subversion of a constitution and incitement of discontent (or resistance) to lawful authority. Who is advocating subversion of the constitution? Only exercising their rights to free speech.How many have tried to use THAT argument in their defense? Seriously think about it AS IF you were on trial.

Sedition may include any commotion, though not aimed at direct and open violence against the laws. Same as above, just exercising freedom of speech. Re Read this and again Think about it AS IF you were on trial

Seditious words in writing are seditious libel. What has been written here that would meet or fit this? Re Read this Thread and Imagine what this would look like if NOTHING had been written


My intent is not to argue with you, I do respect your opinions and views. I am just hoping to not have this discuss take on connotations that are not there. Pal Whether you know it or not I do Truly Respect you!! I have absolutely no problem with you... NONE!! I AM Very Troubled that this discussion is having to take place AT ALL!! Now let me reveal something to everyone. This is not the only "Survival Forum" that I belong to, The MAIN one Yes, but not the Only One, This "Discussion is taking place EVERYWHERE!!! THAT is why I am advocating CAUTION!!! Look I Consider this Forum "HOME" This is the main place for me or if you will, "Where I live". Therefore I consider most of you as "Family". If someone was doing something that was potentially "dangerous" to their well being, I would advise them to the best of my ability. That is what I am trying to do here,REGARDLESS of whether I agree with you or Disagree with you. All I am Trying to do is advocate CAUTION. If this "discussion" takes place in enough places, it is only a matter of time before "someone" takes notice, if they haven't already.

[Ole WV Coot]

We have what? about 375 or so, telling 300 million people what they can & can't do. What can a professional politician ( I hear those seats are mainly for the privileged few ) tell me about how to live or how long I must work before I retire. Those same ones, the majority anyway were a bunch of worthless draft dodgers in the 60s and I truly hope that under one of those grubby protester's beard was a congressman I personally laid out in an alley in DC back when I had a little bit of a temper. After a couple of generations we probably will have a king. I honestly wouldn't want to be 18 again and try to adjust to this garbage with my present attitude.

[Pal334]

Poco,, I appreciate that and I too have respect for your opinions.

I have in fact re read this whole string of posts. I have a unique perspective in that over my career, I have had the opportunity to assist in the investigation and prosecution of cases involving true treason and sedition . What we have here comes no wheres near the thresholds. (a slight hint,, FEDs are people too, they take out the trash just like any husband) That was a crusher for me, my wife was no wheres near as impressed with me, as I was :).

I think we are hearing more discussion because folks are truely hurting. I am just hoping to contribute to calming and having people take responsible and legal action.

And by the way,, venting is a great thing, I do it all the time :)

[Pal334]

We have what? about 375 or so, telling 300 million people what they can & can't do. What can a professional politician ( I hear those seats are mainly for the privileged few ) tell me about how to live or how long I must work before I retire. Those same ones, the majority anyway were a bunch of worthless draft dodgers in the 60s and I truly hope that under one of those grubby protester's beard was a congressman I personally laid out in an alley in DC back when I had a little bit of a temper. After a couple of generations we probably will have a king. I honestly wouldn't want to be 18 again and try to adjust to this garbage with my present attitude.

Coot , ain't it great to be "mature" with an attitude? :)

[Rick]

98 million votes would be a pretty strong special interest group.

Poco - The difference is you quoted a definition not the code. Keep me honest here, Ken.

US Code: Title 18, Part I, Chapter 115, 2384:

Seditious Conspiracy:

"If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both."

EDIT: The Sedition Act became law on July 14, 1798.

[SARKY]

Poco..... we don't want to destroy the Constitution merely the corrupt individuals that are destroying the the Constitution! Is That sedition? If it is then the founding fathers were seditious!

[pocomoonskyeyes]

98 million votes would be a pretty strong special interest group.

Poco - The difference is you quoted a definition not the code. Keep me honest here, Ken.

US Code: Title 18, Part I, Chapter 115, 2384:

Seditious Conspiracy:

"If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both."

EDIT: The Sedition Act became law on July 14, 1798.
OK I'm Glad to be Corrected on this,Thank you.


Poco..... we don't want to destroy the Constitution merely the corrupt individuals that are destroying the the Constitution! Is That sedition? If it is then the founding fathers were seditious!

Sarky no offense But ANYONE trying to destroy the Constitution would have to Come through me first, if I had anything to say about it and I know you feel the same way.

Aren't y'all proud of me I finally figured out how to multi-quote!!! LOL

[Rick]

You do good work, Poco!!!!

(of course I say that to anyone with a hawk and a machete handy)

[crashdive123]

....and that promised you a Danish (the pastry, not the people).

[pocomoonskyeyes]

You do good work, Poco!!!!

(of course I say that to anyone with a hawk and a machete handy)

Uh Rick Technically I only have a Machete, Dottie has the 'Hawk. She just (without knowing it) allowed me to photograph it. I think her words when I was taking it out were something to the effect of - "What are you doing with MY Tomahawk?" to which I very sheepishly replied Oh I'm just going to take a picture of it. She Replied - Oh OK. Isn't she SOOo understanding? (after all she does have the Tomahawk, how else do you expect me to reply?)

[Rick]

Not to stir up anything but did Equus ever receive those 75 hawks from Ken?

[OhioHillbilly]

My opinion....the people in this country got fat and lazy after WWI and WWII. There probably wasn't many factories left in Europe so we were making everything and selling it to the whole world. We were the Power then. We moved to the suburbs and and had the picket fence and 2.2 children with our two martini lunches. The government gave itself all the power and "We the People" rolled over and took a big nap. TV came along and turned our latch key kids into zombies. More people know who won American Idol than who their state rep. is.
It's going to take many years of work just to get the politicians to see that we mean business...if it happens at all. The people get jacked up about something and a week later forget all about it. We let it get this way.

[Rick]

Well, golly gee, I think you side stepped the fact a war was halted by the people. A President stepped down because of the people. An amazing array of civil rights were enacted because of the people. Sunday laws are still on the books because of people. Laws like Megan's Law and Special Olympics and Habitat for Humanity are all realities because of people.

I'm really not trying to be argumentative on this issue. I'm just trying to get across that it's not all one sided. Folks seem to be looking at only half the glass and deciding it's just half full. Government isn't good or bad. Government is US. You know, like, we the people. We can't blame anything on government without first blaming ourselves. And despite it's many shortcomings, the good ole U.S. is the best ride in the amusement park.

[pocomoonskyeyes]

My opinion....the people in this country got fat and lazy after WWI and WWII. There probably wasn't many factories left in Europe so we were making everything and selling it to the whole world. We were the Power then. We moved to the suburbs and and had the picket fence and 2.2 children with our two martini lunches. The government gave itself all the power and "We the People" rolled over and took a big nap. TV came along and turned our latch key kids into zombies. More people know who won American Idol than who their state rep. is.
It's going to take many years of work just to get the politicians to see that we mean business...if it happens at all. The people get jacked up about something and a week later forget all about it. We let it get this way.

You know I had to look mine up when something was coming up in front of them that I wanted to voice my opinion on. The reply I got was polite, but for all it's politeness might as well have said - Shut your mouth and leave me alone. EVERY LAST one of them is about as worthwhile as what my Dog leaves when I walk her. JMO. I honestly believe on the bottom of every ballot should be the option--- None of the above start over with NEW candidates, Then I promise you I WOULD VOTE!! There is not ONE of them that is worth wasting even a speck of ink for.
Wheeeew!!! I feel better for getting THAT off my chest.

[pocomoonskyeyes]

Not to stir up anything but did Equus ever receive those 75 hawks from Ken?

Not to stir anything up but you're still walking aren't you?:sneaky2::innocent:

[Rick]

Perhaps one of the choices on the ballot should be Pocomoonskyeyes.:innocent:

[pocomoonskyeyes]

Perhaps one of the choices on the ballot should be Pocomoonskyeyes.:innocent:

THERE isn't enough money in the GALAXY. I like Pork but I refuse to wallow in mud!!! I could NEVER be that dishonest, or crooked. That's like telling a Homophobe to turn Gay!!!

[Rick]

Hey! Some of those guys are happy. Oh, wait...you meant..... never mind.

[Ole WV Coot]

Coot , ain't it great to be "mature" with an attitude? :)

You can't beat it. I had to kinda keep it down working in a lot of cities after working for Ole Uncle Sam in '65. Now I live like I want, where I want and say what I want, don't impress easily and am still one of those dumb mom & apple pie, church on Sunday, fight for the same flag, learn the language(English) if you want to live here. We still say Grace, prayer before athletic events, kids still get spanked if necessary and a few more things. That makes me a card carrying genuine American proud to be a Redneck hillbilly. Lots of people wouldn't move here because of our media generated reputation and that makes us happy.:clap:

[pocomoonskyeyes]

You can't beat it. I had to kinda keep it down working in a lot of cities after working for Ole Uncle Sam in '65. Now I live like I want, where I want and say what I want, don't impress easily and am still one of those dumb mom & apple pie, church on Sunday, fight for the same flag, learn the language(English) if you want to live here. We still say Grace, prayer before athletic events, kids still get spanked if necessary and a few more things. That makes me a card carrying genuine American proud to be a Redneck hillbilly. Lots of people wouldn't move here because of our media generated reputation and that makes us happy.:clap:

Sounds like a pretty good place to me.:clap:

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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