Dogs on the homestead

[Pal334]

I did a search and did not see a discussion of dogs on the Homestead (assuming I did the search correctly) So here we go...........

Again, an opportunity to pick the brains of some of our learned members. This is not a “bug out” scenario question.

My question is, for folks that live in rural areas, semi isolated to isolated, or those that have given this any kind of thought.

How do you view the value of having a dog or dogs with you / on the property?

Are they a companion only? Or do you view them as a detector or defender or working dog?

Are they outdoors all the time (weather permitting) or in with you at night.

What general type of dog do you prefer in this scenario? I have had great luck with “mutts”.

What size dog? And why you settled on that size.

Do you encourage it or them to hunt for at least part of their food? Or use them for hunting (if that is legal where you are)?

My thoughts are to have two dogs, one possibly a small terrier type (generally a good detecting dog), and another larger type (mostly because I like big dogs). One to write the check and the other to cash the check :)I would view them as companions and detectors / defenders. And they would reside on the porch, living on the food I give them (as in not required to hunt for their chow).

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

We just have the one attack 13" beagle he is inside day and night and outside afternoons through the week. He is protective if the family is in the yard. More of an alarm system than an attack dog though. Not sure if listens out when inside with the family or even when were gone. He is loose in the house and has made very few mistakes. I like the easy keeper he is as i don't have alot of time to train dogs. If I get another he will be an outside dog and probably pretty stealthy like a shepherd or a larger hound for a louder alarm system.

[Rick]

I don't put much value in dogs. They are more of a drain on resources than anything. That's not mean, just objective. That said, we've always had a dog of some kind. Not because they were of value, we just like having them around. CS is right, they do make a good alarm system but little else.

They offer no deterrent to crime and no defense that can't be overcome if someone is intent on entering or doing you harm. There are ways around all of them. I spent over a decade working in peoples' houses and came up against all kinds of dogs. Some pretty darned aggressive, including a military canine at night (that was a really special moment in my life :eek::scared:!!) Still, I was never bitten or tree'd.

We keep them because we want to keep them. For companionship. And then there's always the roast option.

Let's see, Yorkiepoo. My wife's. Inside dog. Her friend needed to give the dog up so we adopted it. Doesn't shed (PRO!!)

I found a vole a few days ago and pointed it out to the dog who went nuts!!! I may actually have a mouser on my hands. She was on that thing in a heart beat and trying to eat the wire fence when the varmint got away and ran into our neighbors yard. First time she had seen one.

[pocomoonskyeyes]

Well my first choice (if I understand the scenario correctly) in Full breed dogs, would have to be the Rhodesian Ridgeback AKA the Lion dog. They are brave,loyal and just all around good dogs. They are defensive of their family while being a fairly docile breed. Like what you had said is I would also like to have some type of small dog as an "Alarm System"( The joke/story I heard about the chihuahua and the Rottweiler comes to mind, The chihuahua barks when an intruder comes,wakes up "Big Brother" to deal with the problem...) You wouldn't have to train a dog very much to be an outside dog as you are suggesting, just some basic commands. "Come, sit,Stay, quiet,etc."
As far as mixed breed I would probably look for a sheperd, rottweiler Dobie, or some such "Guard dog" mixed with a working / sports breed like Lab,Retriever,Hound etc. depending on the dog/disposition a lot of "Heinz 57's" are also good choices. Like people each has their own personality and that's what I would pay attention to.

[Winnie]

I've had several types over the years. The best guard dog was a border collie cross, she would have protected the family and in particular wychwood jnr when he was young to the death. I've also had several greyhounds, my favourite. Loyal, friendly, they earn their keep by hunting and are great indoor dogs too. Don't ask them to guard or expect them to be your alarm system tho, absolutely useless at that!
But as Poco remarked, the main thing is temperament and personality go and have a look at a dog show, see what takes your fancy and talk to the breeders. Then you're in a better position to make an informed opinion. Even if you go for a Heinz 57 you'll have a good idea of how the dog will turn out if you know about the breeds that went into the mix.

[MrsCowboy]

Dogs are great companions and can be good alert systems. I'm surprised at how fast our little dog started barking whenever strangers come near our property. It didn't take him long to learn that this is HIS home and HIS yard and only a select few belong here. lol

I'm not sure how good they would be about attacking people, should the situation arise. (ie. dog vs. bad guy with gun.... who would win?) but I have heard of dogs helping their owners out when being attacked by bears, etc.

Growing up I always had outside dogs and I've always loved BIG dogs (Shepherds are a favorite - and never had a Rottie but I like them too). I have had experience with Dobies, but the ones I know aren't too fierce. I guess they are good if you want to keep them inside in that they don't have long hair. My sis does search and rescue with her dogs, so they can definitely be put to good work!!!!

I heard the Ridgebacks are nice.... in fact just read in the paper that one got stolen out of someone's fenced yard. :( That's another problem with some common breeds .... thieves have been known to take your stuff... AND your dog!!!!

My Dad hunted a lot with dogs when I was a kid. I think that would be great for living in the wilderness. He had a Spaniel type, but down here in the south, everyone is crazy about Labs. I'm not a fan. We once had a Lab/Chow mix and let's just say he had to move on to greener pastures. That dog was NOT right in the head. I would never own a Chow because of this (stereotyping? yep! But that's fine with me!). I am ALL for mutts..... but after that experience, I do prefer to know a little bit more about the dog, temperament of the parents, etc. If the dog fits in well with the family, they will stick around for 10+ years possibly, so I want them to be an asset.... not a pain in the a$$! :)

[rebel_chick]

Well, I have 5 big dogs, 50-120 lbs. With all the theives and idiots around here, I told my neighbors that my dogs bite and to stay away from them. They are the drug dealers for the area so everyone knows that they bite now, LOL. Nobody is getting back to my horses, the dogs run loose with the horses. As for the rest of my stuff on the outside of the fence, it hasn't been touched. When we first moved in my akita kept jumping the fence bc the neighbors female mutt kept coming over here. So they also know that the dogs can easily jump the fence. The only way to really get past them if I am not home is to shoot them, And, well, thats is not a good idea. I would really have to kill somebody if they did that. I already know that when my dogs need their own food, they will kill it. I have seen them in action. They catch mice all the time. And have caught other things. So, if in a survival situation, I know that my dogs would be self sufficient and also possibly good for us too. Now to get the skiddish one used to gun shots...

[Rick]

Ladies, no offense but I can walk past most dogs with little fanfare. They might bark initially but they soon lose interest when presented with something to eat. I always carried dog treats on the truck. The ones with the highest fat and sugar content I could find. Those mean old nasty dogs would change in an instant when you tossed them a treat. Very few stood their ground. If you rely on your animal to protect you, then have someone the dog doesn't know give it a try and see how they act. You might be surprised and enlightened at the results.

I won't say that about trained guard dogs. That's a different subject. The military dog I encountered was probably a me or him if the owner didn't happen to show up when he did. I was in trouble with that dog and he and I both knew it. But house pooches react on instinct, not training, so you just have to pick which instinct you want them to act on. Food is a very powerful motivator. I should know. Oooooh, twinkies, gotta go.

[pocomoonskyeyes]

Rick you probably wouldn't make it in a REAL survival situation- you'd be fantasizing about food so much that your shelter would collapse and your fire go out!!! Do you EVER stop thinking about food?????:innocent::smartass:

[2dumb2kwit]

Ladies, no offense but I can walk past most dogs with little fanfare. They might bark initially but they soon lose interest when presented with something to eat. I always carried dog treats on the truck. The ones with the highest fat and sugar content I could find. Those mean old nasty dogs would change in an instant when you tossed them a treat. Very few stood their ground. If you rely on your animal to protect you, then have someone the dog doesn't know give it a try and see how they act. You might be surprised and enlightened at the results.

I won't say that about trained guard dogs. That's a different subject. The military dog I encountered was probably a me or him if the owner didn't happen to show up when he did. I was in trouble with that dog and he and I both knew it. But house pooches react on instinct, not training, so you just have to pick which instinct you want them to act on. Food is a very powerful motivator. I should know. Oooooh, twinkies, gotta go.

Rick, I agree with what you said, but I have to add this.
For a companion, and early warning system, a dog can see better than you, hear better than you, and definitly smell better than you....I mean....well.....you know what I mean.:innocent: (Snicker,Snicker.)

[rebel_chick]

Rick, I agree with what you said, but I have to add this.
For a companion, and early warning system, a dog can see better than you, hear better than you, and definitly smell better than you....I mean....well.....you know what I mean.:innocent: (Snicker,Snicker.)

I can agree with both of you guys here. My akita and my mutt I know would hold their ground if I was in trouble or not there. But the others are kind of panzies, but if one dog will attack, they all jump in. That is just how it goes. I rely on them for their sight and smell, I rely on my guns to protect me. But I don't know about my mutt pup. My bf and I were playing around and I thought Oreo was going to eat him. LOL. Hes my dog all the way. I want to have two of my dogs attack trained, I just don't have the money, yet. I want to be able to go sit by the river by myself and not have to worry about where my gun is at all times, I don't know if any of you have tried to stick a .45 or .357 in the side of your bikini, but it don't work. :tongue_smilie::innocent:

[pocomoonskyeyes]

I don't know do you have any pictures I don't have a bikini and was wondering what it would look like?:innocent::clap:

[SARKY]

Yeah.... what poco said!

[2dumb2kwit]

Yeah, I agree. More information is needed, for us to be able to give good advice. Pictures would be a big help!:innocent:

[pocomoonskyeyes]

Boy did you open a caan of worms!!!

[DOGMAN]

Dogs are a large part of my life. I usually have between 20-30 of them at any one time. specifically I have the most experience with huskies, (I've owned lots of Alaskan Huskies, Siberian Huskies & Alaskan Malamutes), pointers (GSP'S and English), Labradors, Beagles and most recently Karelian Bear Dogs.

Also, I live on a very rural, remote homestead in the mountains of Montana, and have lots of wild animals (grizzly bears, wolves, coyotes, mountain lions) as neighbors. So, I value dogs in my lifestyle incredibly. I'll try to answer your questions as best I can

How do you view the value of having a dog or dogs with you / on the property?

For me, most of the winter I use my dogs to access my home. So, I view them with high value. Also, they are an incredible alarm system, burglar deterrent and keep predators at bay.

Are they a companion only? Or do you view them as a detector or defender or working dog?
Defender, protector and hard working dog. Companions last.

Are they outdoors all the time (weather permitting) or in with you at night.

Outside all the time, be it 30 below zero with 50 mph winds, or 100 degrees in the summer. They never come in the house

What general type of dog do you prefer in this scenario? I have had great luck with “mutts”.

I don't care for mutts, generally they are not cut-out for real work...
It depends on how specialized the task is that your wanting the dog to perform. If you want a work dog, its best to get a breed that was bred for the job. If you want a companion, get a mutt

What size dog? And why you settled on that size.

I like dogs that are the appropriate size for the job they are being asked to perform. Most breeds are a certain size for a reason.

Do you encourage it or them to hunt for at least part of their food? Or use them for hunting (if that is legal where you are)?

No, my dogs aren't allowed to hunt on their own. They eat plenty of wild game, but I harvest it and feed them. I do like dogs that help with hunting (hounds, pointers and retreivers) but allowing a dog to hunt on their own, generally speaking is not a good thing to develop.

[Rick]

For a companion, and early warning system, a dog can see better than you, hear better than you, and definitly smell better than you.

I absolutely agree. As I said in my first post...." they do make a good alarm system..."

@ Rebel-Chick - Good for you. You have the right idea IMHO. Use them for their abilities. They will alert much faster than you (waaaaay faster than me) but rely on your own resources for defense.

Now, I'm having some trouble visualizing the .357 in the side of your bikini. I don't understand how that works. Pictures, from different angles, would be highly beneficial.

[DOGMAN]

I don't put much value in dogs. They are more of a drain on resources than anything. That's not mean, just objective.

I don't think your opinion is objective. I agree with this assesment for the majority of "pets". But, true working dogs are a huge asset. Have you ever seen a working cow dog, or sheep dog in action? What about a working hound, or a Karelian Bear dog? The work these dogs perform far out weighs the expense of the dogs. A real working hound, bear dog, or cow dog is worth its weight in gold in some parts

[Rick]

Absolutely agree, Jason. No argument for the working dog. They earn their keep. My comment was to the house pooches that we simply keep for companionship.

[ClayPick]

I consider my dogs invaluable for just about all the said reasons. Rarely do I go into the woods without my dogs. Come to think about it, I seldom go anywhere that I can’t take them.:) It gives me peace of mind knowing that they will go home on command if I get in a jam.

[Rick]

"What she sayin' there, Timmy?"
"Golly gee, Gramps. She said Claypick has fallen in a giant vat of jam."
"Well, Nova Scotia is a long ways off but she's got heart."
"Okay, girl. Show us where he is."
"AAArf!"

http://www.chucksconnection.com/lassie3.gif

[Ken]

"What she sayin' there, Timmy?"
"Golly gee, Gramps. She said Claypick has fallen in a giant vat of jam."
"Well, Nova Scotia is a long ways off but she's got heart."
"Okay, girl. Show us where he is."
"AAArf!"

http://www.chucksconnection.com/lassie3.gif

Raining out there today Rick?

[Rick]

It rains every day here. But!! We have really low taxes. How's taxes out your way?

[Ken]

It rains every day here. But!! We have really low taxes. How's taxes out your way?

:flare:

:cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing:

:angermanagement::angermanagement:

[ClayPick]

Ya, it's somthin like that.:)

[rebel_chick]

Boy did you open a caan of worms!!!

Hell, I guess I did didn't I. Well, i would LOVE to share pics but for one I don't have any and two, well, I don't care to piss the wives off! I may need their help against ya'll one of these days!

Back to the actual thread, I don't like purebred bc they all tend to end up with some bodily or mind problem. My mutts are just as capable to pull a sled, fetch a bird, or protect, just like any purebred. Just my 2 cents, not arguing.

[equus]

i have had purebreds and mutts. i have a mutt right now she is a border collie/jack russell mix. she is just a companion dog. the main reason i got her was to replace the dog that i did have. he was a pembroke welsh corgi awesome he helped poco and i out when it came to getting the horses and bringing them to the barn to be fed. they ran on about 15 acres and i didn't want to walk it to find them so i would send him out and he would do it. he got hit by a car . he was well trained i could put him in a sit and stay mode and he wouldn't move until i gave him the command. i did his training myself. i enjoy training dogs and horses wish that i could do this on a full time basis but no luck right now. i did all of my training when it came to the horses. she did not replace him though!!!! she is a pretty good dog for the boys!!! i think that she would protect this family if she had to. the only thing that i don't like is that dogs are not her thing. i do not understand but other dogs scare her.

[rebel_chick]

equus- I am sorry to hear about your other dog, but it sounds like you have a great new one. I had a lab when I was a kid and I could never replace her. She was the best dog. Border Collies from what I have seen, are like that towards other dogs. If prompted tho, the can be QUICK. I rescued a beautiful white border collie with blue eyes, scared of other dogs when he was outside of his yard, but when my dogs irritated him too much, he would turn around and snap at them before they knew what he was doing.

[wareagle69]

all our dogs are rescues we have medium small and smaller, the most aggresive being the smallest a bigon/poodle mix folks get a laugh out of seeing the big tattoed freak with the small dog , but i like her, i also have two very aggressive parrots and they are very loud when strangers come here, maybe it is that most of my anaimals were abused by previous owners that they are aggressive towards folks, while i do not rely on them to protect the property, they do sound the alarm for me, and when i am not at home there are other measures in place, anyone who would come way out here to breakin would be local anyways and they all know who i am and my camera are all very visible(well most of them) can't take down one w/o being caught on the other

[rebel_chick]

Nice idea with the cameras!

[wareagle69]

learned that one in pheonix when i was living up by 35th ave and bell very busy area and my neighbor had that set up, actually her camera covered part of my property also at least where my plumbing truck was parked

[DOGMAN]

Back to the actual thread, I don't like purebred bc they all tend to end up with some bodily or mind problem. My mutts are just as capable to pull a sled, fetch a bird, or protect, just like any purebred. Just my 2 cents, not arguing.

Your mutts are just as capable? Prove it....
Put your money where your mouth is. Enter your mutts in a sled dog race, or field trial, have them go run a mountain lion, or work a Grizzly, or get them to hold a point on a pheasant. LOL...
Sorry, chick but I've spent my entire life working with working dogs, work specialization is linked extensively to genetics. You may get a mutt to do a few things to a degree, but if you want true job performance then dogs that have been bred for the job will most always out perform any mutt. And, about pure breds having problems with body or mind. Thats really only the case on breeds that have been bred away from their work specialization, and are now being bred for pets/looks/AKC registry etc...

[FVR]

Meanest dog this side of the Mississippi resides in my house. Little 40lb half weener half boxer. Just a mean little bastard.

Then there is the greenhorn mutt. Good barker, good watchdog and has taken a nip out of me a few times. Was about to get rid of the worthless piece of dogmeat, but I snuck up on my daughter and was ready to scare her, that mutt about tore a chunk out of my butt. Figured if he was going to do that to me, then I really don't need to worry about anyone else when he's around.

Then there is the monster mutt. Oh, she'll just be 50 or 60 lbs, that was 50lbs ago. She's a bit old but any Rotty is scary.

Yes, I am a dog person. They are animals, they go outside, they come in at night, for what reason? To protect us. Three dogs barking, need I say more.

If it was up to me and I had the room, I'd have a few more. One of them Catohoula dogs, an Akita, and a Chow.

Yeh, that would be a good mix. All females...........male dogs are stupid.

[rebel_chick]

Your mutts are just as capable? Prove it....
Put your money where your mouth is. Enter your mutts in a sled dog race, or field trial, have them go run a mountain lion, or work a Grizzly, or get them to hold a point on a pheasant. LOL...
Sorry, chick but I've spent my entire life working with working dogs, work specialization is linked extensively to genetics. You may get a mutt to do a few things to a degree, but if you want true job performance then dogs that have been bred for the job will most always out perform any mutt. And, about pure breds having problems with body or mind. Thats really only the case on breeds that have been bred away from their work specialization, and are now being bred for pets/looks/AKC registry etc...

Well if I trained my dogs to do things like that I would take you up on that. I would like to train them to pull a sled, I think that they could do it, but... we don't have any snow and I don't have a sled or anything to makeshift into a sled. Actually I had a lab/shepherd mutt that we used to hunt with, He would retrieve the birds as well as an purebred lab. I don't know anything about the akc or breeders...I do not approve of them...but this is not what this thread is about. I apologize for hijacking the thread, was just stating what I think.:smash::smash:

[DOGMAN]

Well if I trained my dogs to do things like that I would take you up on that. I would like to train them to pull a sled, I think that they could do it, but... we don't have any snow and I don't have a sled or anything to makeshift into a sled. Actually I had a lab/shepherd mutt that we used to hunt with, He would retrieve the birds as well as an purebred lab. I don't know anything about the akc or breeders...I do not approve of them...but this is not what this thread is about. I apologize for hijacking the thread, was just stating what I think.:smash::smash:

Actually, this is exactly what the thread is about. We are talking about the value of dogs on a homestead....we are discussing the merits of work dogs and mutts. So, I don't get your point...you have not hijacked or derailed anything.

Your reasoning makes absolutley no sense. Examine your statements...
"I don't know anything about the akc or breeders...I do not approve of them"

How can you develop an opinion and decide you don't approve of something, you admittedly don't know anything about?

Lastly, you use the word "train" for what you'll do to your dogs. That really shows that you've got no understanding of dogs or genetics. If you have dogs that have been bred to do something you don't train them.....You don't have to train a pointer to point, or a husky to pull, or even a Labrador to retreive. They do it instinctvly- our role is to refine their genetic desire into a compatiable working relationship.

My challenge still stands.

[Stony]

we (I) had a few bird dogs, a rescue Blue-heeler and a unwanted Lab at the same time.
Time and cougar took care of all.
one of my girl had a husky/wolf mix (also a unwanted dog).
since we travel lots we have no dogs right now,
but a wire hair dachs hound is under consideration,
maybe a rescue husky as a jogging comp. for the girls.

my "pack" chased off quite a number of unwanted people and the indians are afraid of larger dogs, esp. the husky/wolf mix.

the draw back of having several dogs are obviouse.

[Pal334]

Actually, this is exactly what the thread is about. We are talking about the value of dogs on a homestead....we are discussing the merits of work dogs and mutts. So, I don't get your point...you have not hijacked or derailed anything.

Your reasoning makes absolutley no sense. Examine your statements...
"I don't know anything about the akc or breeders...I do not approve of them"

How can you develop an opinion and decide you don't approve of something, you admittedly don't know anything about?

Lastly, you use the word "train" for what you'll do to your dogs. That really shows that you've got no understanding of dogs or genetics. If you have dogs that have been bred to do something you don't train them.....You don't have to train a pointer to point, or a husky to pull, or even a Labrador to retreive. They do it instinctvly- our role is to refine their genetic desire into a compatiable working relationship.

My challenge still stands.

Please lighten up a bit. Everyone has their own opinions. We can pick and chose what we want from the posts. I just would not want to scare away any one from contributing. I am learning alot from what you are saying, since you obviously have alot of experience, and everyone seems to have a slight "twist" on their responses based on their experience, or in my case lack of alot of experience.

[FVR]

I see Jason's point. There are certain dogs for special purposes. I had a chow, great watch dog, deer tracker, kid, and all around great dog. Now, she loved the water, but the water did not love her. Her hair was too long and although she was a good retriever, it was always on her terms.

The chow was bred to be a cart dog. To protect, fight to the death, and supply it's owner with thick fur for clothing and meat.

I would not take our new mutt out to chase hogs, stupid pup will get himself all cut up. But then if I wanted to hunt badgers, the small daschund fits the bill. They were bred to go do such work.

I would not have my rotty pulling a sled. Not that she could not do it in her younger years, but the environment that creates that job is just too cold. I really don't know what rotty's are bred for, maybe just intimidation with a serious follow through.

If I was to take up duck hunting again (wishful thinking), I'd want a ches. bay ret., because when it comes to the water, they are the best. They are the strongest swimmers for rough water and their hair, skin, and fatty tissue are made for the work.

I will however not put down the mutt. With all the in breeding that goes on, the mutt has managed to shine. Chows along with many (wanted) breeds have been bred so that if you want a good line, it's hard to find and expensive. Worth it? That is the buyers decision.

I imagine that there are many mutts pulling sleds. Diff. in those mutts are cross breeds from dogs that are already pulling sleds. A cross lab and husky, may just want to stick to the warmer climates.

This is just my opinion. I 've had many dogs, all have been good, even the ones that were biters. They were biters because they were either in-bred and had problems or were abused by previous owners.

Dogs like children are born sweet, innocent, and all loving. It's the adults the screw it all up.

[wareagle69]

worthless opions? wtf is that. thats way out of line, i gotta challenge for you, the same one i gave alpine sapper when i called him out, and he ain't been back since cuz he was full of it, i'll send ya a pm with my feild challenge.

[Mountain Man]

We have a standard poodle with ears like like no other... we keep him shaved that's the neg. with the breed the hair grows and grows... also the positive since i`m allergic to other dogs with fur and dander.

He points on his own, will retrieve birds on his own (that have been shot, no formal training) and is a great alert dog.

He's a companion and our first alert system :clap:

If I had the training or wanted to I`m sure I could train him to retrieve birds as a bird dog... he has that in his blood.
He already knows "go get it" or "go get them" when I point to alive animals, birds, people, etc... he will "go get" things he's familiar with on command, and will run and run until he's tired (not often) or finds/gets what he wants, etc. He knows hand signals for left and right, etc.. it's fun :)

He WILL snap at a stranger, growl and get down in his defensive position... He once snapped at a couple high schoolers who were over at my old house helping me with some work. He new one but the other two he didn't and when they went to pet him he snapped, growled and barked...while previously letting the other kid pet him and not acting towards them. He's VERY alert with his senses and who's friend or foe. I've had other dogs in the past snap at strangers when attempting to shake my hand because he thought they were being aggressive toward me.

It's how you react to your dog when he reacts to things.. we make sure he knows that alerting us is VERY important. And I spend 6 days out of the week with him ALL day so we have a VERY TIGHT close bond.

[crashdive123]

We all have topics and things that we are passionate about. I have edited two posts because there is absolutely no reason to turn the discussion into a personal attack. Discuss it civily, or if that is not possible, don't respond.

[DOGMAN]

So, in my mind, my choice of using the phrase "worthless opinion" was based on her opinion not having merit, because it wasn't based on any sort of research or personal experience. Therefore, in my eyes her statements had no merit (worthless). It was not meant as a personal attack.

Its easy to sit around and say things like " I am against breeding" and "my mutt can do anything" with out understanding what your talking about, or being able to support the claim. To me, her statements are about as absurd as someone saying "If I was elected President I could solve the economic crisis" I just get tired of hearing people flap their gums on stuff they know nothing about.

I am sure she has opinions on some topics (elk figurines, etc...) that have merit. But on this subject, I am not going to just back down and say, "sure, whatever" because to me it is an important discussion.

[DOGMAN]

worthless opions? wtf is that. thats way out of line, i gotta challenge for you, the same one i gave alpine sapper when i called him out, and he ain't been back since cuz he was full of it, i'll send ya a pm with my feild challenge.

Save your time...I won't be doing your field challenge. I wasn't the one making grandiose statements, or talking BS. She said her dogs can do something...I simply said "prove it".

There are very few things I know very much about. But, I do know dogs, rivers, wilderness, and wildlife, try to call me out all you want. I could care less. I have nothing to hide, my credentials over my life time are documented by lots of different sources, feel free to look me up. But, Don't think for a second your going to call me out and intimidate me from contributing to this forum.

[rebel_chick]

Alright look guys, this wasn't meant to be an arguement.

Jason, Maybe I don't know everything, and that is not what I was saying or implying, but I do know my dogs. And I do know their capabilities and Part of what you say is true, the breeding has a lot to do with their "natural instincts" but why can't a mutt pull a sled? I have seen other breeds pull a sled. And just bc you have to train them does not mean that they can not be good at it. And if you were to just take a walk in a shelter, or see the abused and neglected animals that I have seen, you would understand why I have mutts and do not support breeders. I am not trying to change your opinion nor was I knocking it. I don't really care what your opinion is. Just like others have said already, everyone has an opionion and not everyone has to have yours. I have done my own resarch on dogs and their capabilities...my pit mix does agility. It is just for fun at my home but I could compete if I wanted to. Just bc I don't think that a dog with papers is anymore valueble than a mix breed. How exactly do you think they got your purebreds anyway? They crossed other breeds to get that breed.

Also, nobody was trying to call you out, just asking that you calm down. Nobody was saying that you were wrong, just that I have a different opinion and it is one that I will not change, no matter how much proving you can do.


I apologize AGAIN, to everyone, this was not what I had intended. I did not mean to start an arguement.

Jason, if you wish to continue this...please...just pm me.

[FVR]

Mountain Man, you have in my opinion one of the best breeds out there. The standard poodle was originally a water dog used for hunting. They are very sensitive to voice commands and are considered a light handed dog. Unlike thick skulled pooches.

I had one many years ago. Sassy aka Sasquatch, named because of her hair. They were going to put her to sleep, so I took her. She was awsome, but unfortunately I lived in a condo and I could not work her the way she needed. As a puppy she ate a couch......don't all dogs.

I put her in the paper and got too many wanted calls, so I finally gave her to the poodle rescue who found a farm where she could run, run, run, and run some more.

Awsome dogs.

[FVR]

When I met my wife, I bragged on Ashley my chow. I said she was the smartest dog in the world, my soon to be wife said "prove it."

I said "Ashley, run across the field and I pointed to a bench and told her to go and jump up on the table and sit" she did just that.

My soon to be wife said, "you cheated, you pointed". So, I called Ashley back and said "Ashley, I want you to turn right, run across the field and jump up on the table and just stand there" my soon to be wife just rolled her eyes.

Boy was she amazed when Ashley did as instructed, to the T.

To this day, she and I agree, Ashley was the smartest dog ever.

But then, I've got the best kids ever to, and the best wife, the best dogs, etc.

[Ken]

When I met my wife, I bragged on Ashley my chow. I said she was the smartest dog in the world, my soon to be wife said "prove it."

I said "Ashley, run across the field and I pointed to a bench and told her to go and jump up on the table and sit" she did just that.

My soon to be wife said, "you cheated, you pointed". So, I called Ashley back and said "Ashley, I want you to turn right, run across the field and jump up on the table and just stand there" my soon to be wife just rolled her eyes.

Boy was she amazed when Ashley did as instructed, to the T.

To this day, she and I agree, Ashley was the smartest dog ever.

But then, I've got the best kids ever to, and the best wife, the best dogs, etc.


Ahhh. What would Ashley have done had you said, "turn left?" :innocent:

[rebel_chick]

I hear that the poodles are really smart, never really had the chance to know a standard tho.

I like chows, I guess sometimes they are unpredictable but then again, any dog can be. She sounds like a great dog. We just picked up a blue heeler-stray, he is house broke, trained, groomed all around well behaved, but we tried to intoduce him to my pack and even one at a time, he wouldn't have it. He tried to bite every one of them. But he didn't try to eat the cat...??? wierd, o well, we find him a good home.

[FVR]

Ken,

She would have taken a louy, of course.



Rebel Chick,

Ashley has long passed on. She is one of those angels looking down over my shoulder.

[Ken]

I miss every dog I've ever had that has passed on.

[DOGMAN]

Alright look guys, this wasn't meant to be an arguement.

Jason, Maybe I don't know everything, and that is not what I was saying or implying, but I do know my dogs. And I do know their capabilities and Part of what you say is true, the breeding has a lot to do with their "natural instincts" but why can't a mutt pull a sled? I have seen other breeds pull a sled. And just bc you have to train them does not mean that they can not be good at it. And if you were to just take a walk in a shelter, or see the abused and neglected animals that I have seen, you would understand why I have mutts and do not support breeders. I am not trying to change your opinion nor was I knocking it. I don't really care what your opinion is. Just like others have said already, everyone has an opionion and not everyone has to have yours. I have done my own resarch on dogs and their capabilities...my pit mix does agility. It is just for fun at my home but I could compete if I wanted to. Just bc I don't think that a dog with papers is anymore valueble than a mix breed. How exactly do you think they got your purebreds anyway? They crossed other breeds to get that breed.

I have worked in two different Animal Shelters, and I am a frequent donor to our local shelter. I was told that nationwide 75% of all dogs in Shelters are mixed breed/ mutts. Blaming the breeders of working dogs for the number of animals in shelters is like blaming auto manufacturers for all the cars in junk yards. Most dogs that end up in shelters are from accidental breedings by irresponsible pet owners- not from breeders of working dogs. My father normally sales puppies for $500-1,000 dollars, and has a 100% guarantee on them. I've never heard of one of them ending up in a shelter.

For the record- I am against puppy mills...they destroy breeds for a buck. But, good breeders work to improve the breed- not to merely make $$$.

Lastly, karelian bear dogs, Siberian huskies, Malamutes, and countless other old line dogs are not crossed from other breeds as you suggest...they developed independently through intentional breeding over hundreds of years by people of specific regions.

[pocomoonskyeyes]

I'm glad Jason that you made the concession that the Unknown sometimes beats the competition. There is an APHA (yes it is a "pure Breed" but of questionable backgrounds/beginnings or Mutt if you will) horse with it's owner that was only one of three to be ranked for international competition in reining They were previously "unheard of". Just to show that it Does happen, with horse/dog of unknown lineage and unknown trainer/handler/rider/owner. (Yes he "wears" all 4 hats)
While I may not have your credentials I do agree with RC about a Breed being invented for a job. I have a Border Jack(1/2 Border Collie-1/2 Jack Russell) which is one of the top choices for the event "Fly Ball" While your Dogs may be "Pure Bred" all dogs go back to a common ancestor and as such all are Canis Domesticus, regardless of "Breed"
All I'm trying to get at is this You BOTH have valid points And really is it THAT important? I used to have a signature on my E-mail," I have the best horse in the world and it is my fervent hope that all horse owners feel the same way about their horse(s)." I think I kinda' feel the same way about ya'lls dogs. I'm glad you both love your dogs or at least respect the heck outta' them.

[DOGMAN]

I'm glad Jason that you made the concession that the Unknown sometimes beats the competition. There is an APHA (yes it is a "pure Breed" but of questionable backgrounds/beginnings or Mutt if you will) horse with it's owner that was only one of three to be ranked for international competition in reining They were previously "unheard of". Just to show that it Does happen, with horse/dog of unknown lineage and unknown trainer/handler/rider/owner. (Yes he "wears" all 4 hats)
While I may not have your credentials I do agree with RC about a Breed being invented for a job. I have a Border Jack(1/2 Border Collie-1/2 Jack Russell) which is one of the top choices for the event "Fly Ball" While your Dogs may be "Pure Bred" all dogs go back to a common ancestor and as such all are Canis Domesticus, regardless of "Breed"
All I'm trying to get at is this You BOTH have valid points And really is it THAT important? I used to have a signature on my E-mail," I have the best horse in the world and it is my fervent hope that all horse owners feel the same way about their horse(s)." I think I kinda' feel the same way about ya'lls dogs. I'm glad you both love your dogs or at least respect the heck outta' them.


By the way, my dogs are not AKC registered....Alaskan Huskies are not pure breds in that sense, they are line bred work dogs with a documented heritage. But, dogs like we are talking about are intentional breedings- not mutts.

Lastly, the scientific name for dogs is Canis lupus familiaris....orginally Linneaus named them, Canis familiarus domesticus (in the 1700's), then that was dropped to reflect the close relation to wolves.

[pocomoonskyeyes]

Jason thank you for the correction I wasn't sure the exact name in the trinomial listing but had seen it somewhere as being the domestic Dog and assumed (incorrectly) that it was canis domesticus. Not all that familiar with the classification of dogs. What you in the dog world call "mutt" we in the horse world call "Grade", and if your dogs were horses they would be considered "Grade" as they are NOT registered. Although in horses they can compete in certain events as Grade(i.e. barrel racing, and reining are the ones that pop to mind) In most competitions they would not be allowed to compete UNLESS they were registered. a Grade horse would be allowed to compete at barrel racing events only but not at breed supported barrel racing events. Is one less capable than the other? all depends on the horse. Granted there some major differences between dogs and horses...just saying.

[finallyME]

Back to the original question.

I have a malamute. I got her because I wanted a dog to do certain things.

1. live in snow (go snow camping and not have to bring gear for the dog to not freeze
2. pull a sled, cart, and wear a big backpack during hiking season.
3. not eat my kids

I narrowed my list to 3 possible dogs: husky, malamute, german shepherd. I wasn't 100% sure about the shepherd. The husky seemed like it wanted to run more than I did. I want it to pull a small sled (pulk) and not have me on it. I would walk next to the dog, with a leash. So, a dog that could pull a small sled with a lot of weight (all my winter camp stuff) at my walking pace is more desirable. The malamute seemed a better choice. Then we lucked out and found someone giving away a 4 year old malamute. She has been a great dog, despite the fact that I still don't have a sled, cart, or backpack for her.

By the way John, since you know about mals, and this is a dog thread...How do I get mine to eat raw meat? She will eat it if she catches it live, but when I skin a rabbit, and give her a leg, she won't touch it.

[Mountain Man]

Here are some pictures of my dog.

Share if you like :)

[pocomoonskyeyes]

Finally Me I have a question and I apologize for my ignorance on certain subjects (this being one) But I am curious,what is the approximate weight of all your winter gear and same for your dog. just trying to understand what ratio they can work with. Or maybe Jason would be the one I need to direct this to? anyway I'm just trying to get with it.

[finallyME]

Jason would be much better with that one. I actually don't know the weight, as I am still acquiring. I recently moved to Utah from Texas and decided that winter camping looks like fun. I found a site about winter trekking and have been learning alot. I think a few members here are also members there. My summer time weight is around 25 lbs without food and water. Also, I like bringing my 6 year old son with me. I don't make him carry all his stuff. I am hoping for my dog to pull all my stuff, plus my son's (which isn't much more).

[Rick]

Have you shared that little tidbit with the dog yet? He might have a different idea on the matter, you know.

[DOGMAN]

I'll try to answer the questions...

First feeding raw meat. Try freezing it, and then giving it to him as a "chewie" he will work on it for a minute or so, then most likely devour it. Then slowly freeze the raw meat less and less each time you have the chance to give it to him, until he likes fresh raw meat. Some dogs who don't eat meat as youngsters are a little confused by it at first, because they don't associate it as food, or they may have gotten a severe spanking from their old owner for taking an uncooked chicken off the kitchen counter, and are afraid of the reprucussions. LOL

Pulling weight. There is alot of variance here. In general Alaskan Huskies, in a team can pull about twice their weight while running. So, 12, 50 lbs Alaskans could pull approx. 1200 lbs while running, all day long.

Then, there are weight pulling competition dogs, the world record is now over 8,000 lbs that a dog has pulled! There is a superior class, that to enter dogs must have pulled over 23 times there own weight before. However, they are only pulling the load 16 feet.

So, what I am getting at, is- it depends. How far are you going in a day? How fast do you want to go? How many days in a row are you going to ask the dog to work? Its best to start out very light, and not go very far. Let your dog get used to it, and then gradually put on more weight as your dog becomes accustomed to the work and builds up muscle. If you have a 100 lbs Malamute, after a few weeks of practicing he/she should have no problems pulling a sled of 100 pounds for an hour or two. The main thing is work them slowly, and keep it fun. kind of like a rookie backpacker- don't overdue it, and sour them on it.

[rebel_chick]

Eating raw meat seems to come naturally to my moms dogs, she has a sharpei/pit and she is very skinny and lanky and FAST. She catches the rabbits and her and the St. Bernard play tug-o-war with it and eat it. My dogs will kill small animals but most of the time wont eat it. I never thought about freezing it, that is a good idea. What about also starting with bones with raw meat on it? I know we get ours from the local butcher once in a while and the dogs love it. Just a thought.

[finallyME]

Thanks for both of your comments, Jason and rebel chick. My first two dogs I got as puppies devoured any type of meat (raw or otherwise). One didn't even try to taste it, he just ate it. But, my 4 year old mal seems to be a little picky. I think her previous owner only gave her table scraps, or something that I am not giving her. She only eats the dry dog food (I have tried a couple different brands) after she is really hungry and we have gone to bed. I think she is waiting for something better. I have given her a half frozen piece of pork neck, and she ate it right up. She never did that when I gave it to her completely non-frozen. I never associated the frozen bit to why she ate it, so thanks a lot for that advice. I really mean it. Every time I have given her raw meat, it was on a bone. She also doesn't seem to like bones that much. I gave her a big cow knuckle and she didn't do much with it. I have also given her rawhide bones and commercial real bones with a little meat dehydrated on it, and again she isn't too interested. She eats pig ears, and a softer bone my wife gets her with something in the middle she likes. I am trying to give her more natural stuff, so it is a little frustrating that she doesn't like real bones, or raw meat.

[DOGMAN]

Thanks for both of your comments, Jason and rebel chick. My first two dogs I got as puppies devoured any type of meat (raw or otherwise). One didn't even try to taste it, he just ate it. But, my 4 year old mal seems to be a little picky. I think her previous owner only gave her table scraps, or something that I am not giving her. She only eats the dry dog food (I have tried a couple different brands) after she is really hungry and we have gone to bed. I think she is waiting for something better. I have given her a half frozen piece of pork neck, and she ate it right up. She never did that when I gave it to her completely non-frozen. I never associated the frozen bit to why she ate it, so thanks a lot for that advice. I really mean it. Every time I have given her raw meat, it was on a bone. She also doesn't seem to like bones that much. I gave her a big cow knuckle and she didn't do much with it. I have also given her rawhide bones and commercial real bones with a little meat dehydrated on it, and again she isn't too interested. She eats pig ears, and a softer bone my wife gets her with something in the middle she likes. I am trying to give her more natural stuff, so it is a little frustrating that she doesn't like real bones, or raw meat.


My personal opinion is, your dog is testing you and is exhibiting controlling behaviour- soon she is going to feel she is the alpha (if she doesn't already). Then your going to really have your hands full. An alpha Malamute is a genuine doggie challenge. I'd suggest picking one food, and feeding her only that for awhile. Also, I'd let her get real hungry. Skip a day without feeding her. Then present food to her, and if she doesn't gobble it up with-in 5 minutes- take it away from her. Then feed her again in 12 hours same routine- give her 5 minutes, again if she doesn't tear into take it away. Hold off for another 12 or 24 hours. Then feed her again- same routine. It shouldn't take more than a couple of days for her to realize, that she needs to eat what is offered, when its offered. Once, you establish this relationship with her, you will be amazed and how your relationship will shift. Malamutes are incredibly smart and crafty, and if you ever let one get the upper hand on you, its frustrating to ever get them to do anything you want.
The are such tough, big dogs that a heavy hand discipline approach usually won't work unless you are a true hard ***. I'm not, so I had to figure out a different way to get my Mal's respect. Besides, Malamutes can handle a heavy hand and not even be phased- they just start to resent you. But, get the food association going, you'll become the alpha real quick, and they will do whatever you ask.

[Pal334]

Now here is an alternative for those that have the time and disposition. Adopt a Military Working Dog (MWD):
Excerpt from their web site: http://www.militaryworkingdogadoptions.com/

As a result of the passage of

H.R. 5314 on 6 Nov 2000,

civilians can adopt a retiring

Military Working Dog! These

wonderful animals can now

have a well-deserved

retirement with a loving family.

Check out how you can add a

most deserving Veteran to

your family!


Might not be for everyone, but you would get a loyal, obedient companion. And today’s MWD are not the sentry / Attack dog of old. I do not have the time currently to do justice to this type of veteran, but am seriously considering it when I do.

[finallyME]

Thanks Jason. I have only been giving her one type of food for a few months now, mostly because I don't want to buy more. I didn't switch foods until I ran out of the other one, so she still had to eat the one she didn't like. But still, because she never ate it right away, I always left it out for her. I originally did what you suggested with only giving her a set time to eat when I was trying to get her to eat raw meat. But, she would hold out so long, I was afraid of meat spoilage. I guess I need to try it with the dry food as well. My wife and I have been doing a bunch of other stuff to make sure we are dominate in her eyes (along with our kids being dominate). She can't sleep in our room, she can't sleep in the kids rooms, she can't get on any furniture. The floor is her spot to sleep, unless a kids wants that spot. If she growls at all at the kids, she gets kicked out of the spot and forced to move to another spot. She has to wait for us to go through the door first. On walks, she is not in front. She has to do tricks to get treats. By doing all these things, and giving her exercise, I have noticed she does a lot better. By adding the food thing, I am sure she will be even better. :clap:

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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Vale (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/98299)Laco (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/570488)Choi (http://octupolephonon.ru)ЛитÐ* (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/147849)ЛитÐ* (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/200550)Robe (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/147515)рома (http://onesticket.ru/shop/577996)ЛитÐ* (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/579979)Wind (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/681847)ЛитÐ* (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/203399)веро (http://palmberry.ru/shop/288353)ЛитÐ* (http://papercoating.ru/shop/581336)ЛитÐ* (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/685365)Gott (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1166739)Ñ�лов (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1166796)
Горд (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1165759)�оче (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1168594)Бели (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1538436)Шевч (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/344824)Мурм (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/593863)печа (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/594300)Dona (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1042194)Arye (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1072054)Mark (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/174306)Ма�ш (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/475995)Pete (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/512191)Stre (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/511051)Most (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/719507)моло (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1077050)Olia (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/252589)
Fran (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/469508)мона (http://rearchain.ru/shop/638041)Lynn (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/515095)Путе (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/879427)Gene (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1052788)Егор (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1061221)Фила (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1676530)Шевк (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1692731)Oxfo (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1746855)Bruc (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/121710)BLAC (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1812813)Ð�тла (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1052446)Бара (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1065535)Ð*озе (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1419307)Чекм (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1460988)
ткан (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1483027)Стар (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1461024)авто (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1492997)авто (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/222369)XVII (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/255778)авто (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/304511)Jaco (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/110385)Dann (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/398430)Paul (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/399401)Син� (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/459857)ме�� (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/1984)ме�� (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/1984)ме�� (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/1984)Соде (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/481825)книг (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/489255)
Astr (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/475466)Мель (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/482087)Мохм (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/485722)Stev (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/497995)Обще (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1819601)Гу�е (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1875873)кред (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/639399)Коча (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/305150)буду (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/399373)�ндр (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/975032)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Шала (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/979451)прав (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/482224)

[yellowcab]

круг (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/3414)138.15 (http://cottagenet.ru)CHAP (http://eyesvision.ru/use-your-own-eyes-chapter-8)PERF (http://eyesvisions.com)Thic (http://factoringfee.ru/t/123149)Alfr (http://filmzones.ru/t/49769)Mode (http://gadwall.ru/t/120930)Кере (http://gaffertape.ru/t/52640)отры (http://gageboard.ru/t/51945)Burt (http://gagrule.ru/t/1112)John (http://gallduct.ru/t/127659)Jana (http://galvanometric.ru/t/53464)�рти (http://gangforeman.ru/t/12470)Firs (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/22231)Oasi (http://garbagechute.ru/t/133917)
Иллю (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/48432)clas (http://gascautery.ru/t/17039)кре� (http://gashbucket.ru/t/52564)Кита (http://gasreturn.ru/t/17784)Clar (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/68759)Chri (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/125354)греч (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/121869)Opti (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/121081)Juic (http://geartreating.ru/t/123161)Меже (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/51832)Перм (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/109838)газе (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/52425)Butt (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/128887)аввр (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/52397)SETV (http://getthebounce.ru/t/6611)
Eric (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/74909)Feda (http://habituate.ru/t/167698)Emil (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/52141)Серд (http://hackworker.ru/t/58103)кухн (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/195951)West (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/66854)Slen (http://hailsquall.ru/t/10222)Curl (http://hairysphere.ru/t/77763)Каза (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/46460)Ð*ожа (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/193879)Tykw (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/184953)разн (http://haltstate.ru/t/52581)Fisk (http://handcoding.ru/t/1222)Джам (http://handportedhead.ru/t/52115)ЮÑ�уп (http://handradar.ru/t/92435)
Myth (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/17415)�ерт (http://hangonpart.ru/t/1148)рома (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/51881)Mart (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/43135)Dawn (http://hardasiron.ru/t/26706)МБул (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/91815)hard (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/25750)�рти (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/22346)XVII (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/24540)Alla (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/52820)matt (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/19695)Wind (http://headregulator.ru/t/24169)Pali (http://heartofgold.ru/t/19681)Nigh (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/17116)XVII (http://heatinggas.ru/t/27769)
Милл (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/152900)резу (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/194670)mail (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/61042)Wood (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/123614)Casu (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/108192)Шатр (http://jobstress.ru/t/52036)Eury (http://jogformation.ru/t/12110)Бел� (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/17103)лого (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/122464)OZON (http://journallubricator.ru/t/121324)Gioc (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/96410)ката (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/35538)Wind (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/26664)Wind (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/26235)Hosh (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/24235)
Migu (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/52631)Libe (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/24278)1515 (http://kentishglory.ru/t/105316)Wind (http://kerbweight.ru/t/25663)Idri (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/28356)Wind (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/24471)Wind (http://keyserum.ru/t/25726)Find (http://kickplate.ru/t/128535)Fame (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/146532)Flas (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/101491)Bubc (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/103318)тепе (http://kinozones.ru/film/8310)IMPE (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/143680)Quat (http://kneejoint.ru/t/134751)visc (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1354)
Herm (http://knockonatom.ru/t/122557)Ralp (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/123085)Myst (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/141871)Expe (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/136555)Pete (http://laborracket.ru/t/133318)Miyo (http://labourearnings.ru/t/19760)комп (http://labourleasing.ru/t/19783)Ев�е (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/49350)Кова (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/52251)Mike (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/93610)Ches (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/52219)Wind (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/58041)�к�п (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/57998)Step (http://laggingload.ru/t/64854)Colu (http://laissezaller.ru/t/63451)
Stev (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/54169)Ð*оÑ�Ñ� (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/38389)Proj (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/24121)иÑ�то (http://lamphouse.ru/t/49709)Данг (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/52574)Swar (http://lancingdie.ru/t/55094)Moun (http://landingdoor.ru/t/24088)Jame (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/42604)Jack (http://landreform.ru/t/124121)куль (http://landuseratio.ru/t/49248)Dead (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/122837)Ñ�тен (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1161458)Петр (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1163387)Soup (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/210)реал (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/590788)

[yellowcab]

Стре (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1179417)Teka (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/453091)Zigm (http://layabout.ru/shop/453035)Cata (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/599688)Litt (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/105984)Asce (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/465678)Wind (http://leaveword.ru/shop/465923)Elis (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/268917)Шабе (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/575495)PN00 (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/268018)Stay (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/268662)Лы�е (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/575895)7519 (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/557872)ARAG (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/160392)prec (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/614149)
номе (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/598641)лока (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/112)trac (http://mp3lists.ru/item/7782)Ivre (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/1041980)reat (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/108706)Crea (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/461657)обра (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/1055732)Зори (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/501469)Baby (http://navelseed.ru/shop/101780)карт (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/455251)Wind (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/178162)Wind (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/507320)Chan (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/622441)�кот (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/109499)Bork (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/97611)
Bosc (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/98824)Cafe (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/397760)zita (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/17724)Сини (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/148780)Disn (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/202870)Ñ�лов (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/149563)Бычк (http://onesticket.ru/shop/579741)Otsu (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/581955)ЛитÐ* (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/684096)Патт (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/683466)Pris (http://palmberry.ru/shop/578784)Спек (http://papercoating.ru/shop/583530)Соде (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/689060)боъх (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1168437)Поте (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1168440)
воен (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1173411)учил (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1172384)Янан (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1540959)�ики (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/1489401)Соде (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/595859)одна (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/598701)втор (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1072260)Юрче (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1073881)филь (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/334987)Terr (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/510098)�аза (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/522433)Wond (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/517444)Jewe (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/905599)�аум (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1080093)Easi (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/336241)
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допо (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1493190)БелÑ� (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1479172)Ð�ким (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1494755)Enjo (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1555928)Ilik (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1417269)Ð*айт (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1488008)Тать (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/338476)line (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/400439)Ð*ыжо (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/401610)труд (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/1686737)Soup (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/210)Soup (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/210)Soup (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/210)Прои (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/483502)Сотн (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/490995)
Arre (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/498913)худо (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/483737)Ñ�бор (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/488266)Disn (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/499702)Ð*диг (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1822462)Ñ�каз (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1880935)Ñ�зык (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/758516)Четв (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/783403)Marr (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/401592)школ (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/981217)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Гром (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/981624)Лаго (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/483838)