Survival myths and truths

[corndog-44]

With all of the survival information on the internet, in books, etc. how do you distinguish between survival myths and truths?

[wareagle69]

try it out in the saftey of where you can practice and still be able to walk in the house

[corndog-44]

Just do it and hope for the best don't cut it for me. Critical thought of the subject offers us a better means of distinguishing between myths and truths.

[corndog-44]

With all of the survival information on the internet, in books, etc. how do you distinguish between survival myths and truths?

To clarify my question; "Myth" is used here to include misconceptions, misunderstandings, and, mostly, half-truths.

[corndog-44]

Hope ?
Just do it ?

You must have picked up on some clumsiness on my part.
First off...hope is for suckers in my book.
Second...Not just do it, taste it, i know tasting is a weird concept for most people, but it actually involves a great deal of understanding the mechanics, the processes, the "truths" about the said subject.

Tasting is living, experiencing with the whole of the body, not just the intellect, still bound by the limitations of interpretation and personal history.

Your thoughts can be as critical, as sharp as you want, it does not mean you will be able to separate truth from myths...after all, myths are created by thoughts and ideas...and most truths are also born from the same cavity.

I understand the frustration, but the answer to this question can only form-in-side your eyes, supported by the direction of your choice...sort of.
A Buddhist, will not have the same truths nor myths than a Christian, a molecular scientist will not have the same truths nor myths than a pediatrician.

The difference rests upon the trail of our journey.
Which trail to choose is what you are asking here, and who am i to answer that for you ?

So you agree with my statement; "Critical thought of the subject offers us a better means of distinguishing between myths and truths."

[FVR]

So, let's hear some of these myths that you speak of.

[MCBushbaby]

Generally if something like a knot or fire starting technique turns out to be myth, you only waste some time. I'd certainly be more wary of myths concerning edible plants that you have to survive on. For example, I read the natives used a very small amount of water/poison (forget which) hemlock root to treat upset stomachs and some other things but I'm certainly not going to test that out since only a couple grams of the root sap will kill you. So that remains a myth

[Sarge47]

With all of the survival information on the internet, in books, etc. how do you distinguish between survival myths and truths?

There are "Survival Basics" that remain steadfast and true. Then comes those who can't bear the thought of "simple" things. They have to complicate it with a lot of other stuff such as, as you've described, info on the internet, in books, etc. The Boy Scouts of America solved this problem back in the early 1900's, yet we're still a host to many other "wanna-bes" & "posers" who, if they can't land a book deal show up at forums like this and try to impress us with their "psycho-babble" or some other nonsense that will, in all liklihood do very little in saving your life out in the woods. A good example would be of Bear Grylls demonstrating drinking his own urine directly from his bladder. That is a strict no-no! Here's the bottom line; if you're not sure, leave it be! Don't take any risks, you can't afford to. This was why the young man died out in Alaska. (Into the Wild) by Jon Krakauer.) Take care!

[woodwose]

With all of the survival information on the internet, in books, etc. how do you distinguish between survival myths and truths?

Lofty Wiseman and Tom Brown advise to learn the information and then go out and practice. I.E. Just because you know something in theory... doesn't mean that you know it in reality.

[FVR]

Actually Sarge, little Alexander Supertramp lasted a heck of a long time given his complete adventure.

He spent a year plus just meandering the backwoods and roads of the cont. US and down into Mexico. Many label him a looney, his way of thinking was just different. If he had not made the one drastic mistake of eating patato seeds, he might have just survived.

He was lacking in knowledge in some areas, but no more than most who would have chosen to be in his position.

Being on your own, you can take as many risks as you want. He had alienated his family and friends and he was well aware that he was on his own. Again his mistake, eating something that caused the stomach enzymes not to work. His death of starvation would have accured even if he sat down for three square meals a day.

Wonder how many of us could do his long trek and have the will to continue?

What sucks is that his one mistake causes others to call him un-knowledgeable and a greenhorn. How about all the things that he did right to get him to Alaska?

We always focus on the negative.

[corndog-44]

So, let's hear some of these myths that you speak of.

Here are a couple:

Myth # 1: Pokeweed; The young leaves and stems are edible cooked. The fruits are edible if cooked.

Truth: Even handling the plant is considered dangerous, so it would seem wise to not only prevent human contact with the plant, but animal contact as well. Despite this, the plant is eaten as a spring vegetable after cooking it first in several changes of water. Consumption of the plant is not advised.
(This was found on the Purdue University's web site.)

Myth # 2: Snakes can strike only from a coiled position.

Truth: Snakes can strike from any position. If a person grabs a snake's body the snake can turn extremely quickly and bite various parts of the body that holds it.

[woodwose]

Hmm.. Good point(s) but Corndog-44s question didn't include those variables. Of course, you take those into consideration when you appraise your situation and work around them and with them.

[RobertRogers]

What I often see are sites with neat little drawings of how to make shelters, weapons, or other survival stuff that make it all seem so tidy and easy to do...

However, go out and actually try it - then you will know why the author of the article made drawings instead of taking actual pictures of his handywork. Its possible he could not even do it himself!

Real survival techniques often take a fair amount of knowledge and effort to pull off.

[HOP]

That foliage makes adequate toliet paper is a myth of great untried bunk.

[Sarge47]

[QUOTE=volwest;8629]Corndog,




Sarge,

I don't even know where to start, or even if i should.
For you to understand someone like Christopher McCandless, for you to understand his intentions, his tensions, his relation to the world, well, you would have to simply be different...you would have to obtain somehow a different attitude, a different state of mind.

Like FVR said, he actually survived an amazing adventure, very few here would be able to conceive...and breath...he survived the world people like you create. And for you to understand this, you would have to understand that death in itself can sometimes mean survival. But that is way too contradictory and slippery to a mind like yours.

I'll keep it "simple" for Sarge here..."


VW, your deriding remarks speak more towards your lack of credibility as a professional than anything else so far. A real professional does not stoop to this sort of thing.

[Sarge47]

Well...If only you knew about the many different approaches a "professional" can have.
You forget about analytic psychotherapy, where absolute neutrality is abandoned.
You also have CCT, Client Centered Therapy, developed by Carl Rogers...Albert Ellis's Rational-Emotive Therapy...and so on.

A "real professional" will "stoop", hop, flank...whatever is necessary, depending on the client's...needs, state of mind, position...

Have you ever watched that cooking show with Gordon Ramsay ?
You should try it if you haven't...his "stooping" is an art.

A "professional" is not synonymous with letting the person in front of you regress to no end, or say or do anything he wants without bringing to the table his input, his direction, his intention, himself.

The pallet of a "professional" has a multitude of colors to work on the canvas in front of his eyes. But all of this assuming we are here talking about me having to be "professional" with you.

You set the pace.
I am only giving you what you ask for.
In the end...what do you know about what a professional does or doesn't do...Did i ever tell you how you should drive your bus ? No. But you sure keep on telling me how i should drive mine...And as long as you do that, as long as you do not take responsibility for your own words and actions, we will waste time and energy.

This thread is the perfect example of this happening.
Interesting subject, interesting point of views, but you come in and can't help but slide your little witch hunt...over and over again.

You don't get it...and at this point and time, i am afraid you never will.

Whatever......................!

[corndog-44]

volwest; an interesting and thoughtful comment.

The search for truth requires deep reading and deep thinking. The arrival of the Information Age threatens to overwhelm us with info-glut and info-garbage, we must be capable of simultaneously grazing this vast info and reading deeply. The search for truth should be the central focus of our learning survival skills. Deep reading and deep thinking (cousins to critical thinking) are duel processors which inform such a search and lead us toward insight and illumination. As the flow of information increases, so does "noise" in the system and Truth becomes ever more elusive, much like the bright elusive butterfly of love.

[trax]

I see you really quietened down and focused while you were away. Good to see you back, here, conversing about....wilderness survival. Did you miss me?:D

[corndog-44]

The vacuity is your truth.

Most of us have experienced enough pot-luck suppers to know that we must walk up and down a long table of dishes to "graze" and "browse" the contents before loading up our plates.

If only some of our colleagues and beginning wilderness survivalist would apply the same approach to the vast information feast set before us!

We know the folly of rushing to the table and loading without glancing ahead . . . mounds of food (information?) which go untouched - not to mention vast opportunities unrealized and untasted. Our plates are loaded up before we can make it past the first twenty feet.

We see students of wilderness survival doing the same thing with information, downloading and saving files in a great rush of data gorging which rarely includes reading. Hundred of files and pages accumulate without sorting, sifting or discrimination. They search the Web, find twenty thousand hits and light up with joy. Confusing quantity and sheer volume of information with success, they greedily scoop up everything within their reach, saving it for later.

We must beware of a "buffet mentality" when we step up to the information feast.

At the same time, we should hardly be surprised by this gorging. After all, for decades these students have been asking wilderness survival teachers "How long must it be?" Most of us asked the same question when we were students. We once gave the impression that length and wisdom were related. And now we pay the price.

Perhaps we need to replace that old message with "less is more." Wisdom has more to do with distillation and reduction than volume. While we may want to search widely, we must harvest sparingly and wisely.

[FVR]

Buffet Mentality.

That's good.

Let's see, this is how I attacked Chef Lee's buffet last Friday.

Walk around = taking in all the info.

Make a mongolian bbq plate consisting of ram, sprouts, mushrooms, few peppers, hot pepper sauce, and asked the chef to add garlic sauce. = 1st round of knowledge.

While the chef was making that up, I ventured over to the sushi bar and placed two pieces of each sushi around my plate. In the center I placed the ginger and filled a cup of wasabee. = 2nd round of knowledge.

Ran back to the table and just ate it all up.

Then I returned to the sushi bar, placing 8 more pieces around the plate, put ginger in the center, had wasabee at the table, and then put a helping of kimchi on the side. = Accepting what I know is good, and gaining more info on the spicy cabbage.

I then returned once again to the sushi bar, 8 more pieces of sushi around the plate, ginger in the middle, good helping of kimchi, added a mixture of octopus and spices, and headed to the table. = Again, accepting what I know then adding a little more.

The fourth trip to the bar, I wanted something different so I fell in with what I know. Steamed rice and mongolian beef. = Comfy common knowledge.

I then finished off my excellant meal with a bowl of soup. I forget the name, it is rather a beef broth that you usually find a large noodle stuffed with meat floating in the center. = A relaxing thought.

All this for $5.50 plus tip. = One heck of a good deal.

[NorthWindTrails]

Corndog-44 ... As I see it, this is the real value of a forum like this one. We are actually gleaning the combined experiences of like-minded people to find what DOES work, without having to go through absolutely every suggestion ever made as to what constitutes "Survival Skills". It can be as general or specific as we choose, but it does seem like there are some "core skills" essential to making it through whatever comes our way. Fire ... water ... shelter ... edible food. I plan on knowing at least these basic things, and I'll have to adapt to whatever situation I find myself in. Having said that, I can't say that I'd do very well in a purely Tropical survival situation, never having studied the dangers and other variables of that climate. There seem to be quite a few poisonous plants and critters to be concerned with in those areas, but I don't plan on ever going there to survive. My focus is on the North American continent somewhat below the Permafrost line and somewhat above the Mason-Dixon line. That's about all I care to take in, for now. I agree, there are "Survival Basics" that will always be dependable. Beyond that, we have to adapt as best we can. NorthWind

[wareagle69]

NWT brings up a good point, how many of us travel to different climatic destinations. the company i work for does a company trip every yr to places like the dominican and mexico. now i can survive in mexico being that my first marriage was to a mexican chiqita and i am from arizona, but now that i live in northern ontario all my supplies are here, what would happen if far away from home the worst case happened what would you do? me personally i do not travel mainly because i do not have anyone to look after my horses and house critters at least thats my story and i'm sticking to it.

[trax]

I am more on topic than you will ever be.

Why are you really here Trax...?

Well, volie old dear, I doubt that you are more on topic than I will ever be. As much as I enjoy your tirades I find that you leap to some pretty amazing conclusions about people you don't know too, but that's ok, you're just trying to make your point...eventually.

What you said about the amount of "blah blah blah" about survival is true, but you know....there's a few good ways to make a shelter in different natural environments and lots and lots of bad ways, so people want to learn some of the good ways. The same can be said for food gathering, fire making, what tools to use, etc. So this marvelous invention called the Internet gives people a chance to share some of that information and to communicate mutual interests. (Thank goodness for Al Gore! LOL)

I am, in fact, more "in touch" with a wilderness lifestyle than most people get to be, that's my choice and I'm lucky to live in an area where I can. I feel most disconnected when I'm here, having to do what I have to do to collect money. Poor me, boo hoo, whatever, not ready to make the total plunge into wilderness living yet.

I also agree with you about survival being a matter of every second of every day, but this forum is about wilderness survival. Says so right at the top of the page, check it out, I can wait. Maybe you should start a forum on the bigger picture of survival, I'd certainly check it out and try to offer my humble opinion when I thought it was warranted.

But why am I here? I knew I had to stay cuz I knew you'd miss me. :)

[Sarge47]

But why am I here? I knew I had to stay cuz I knew you'd miss me. :)

I thought it was because of the free Ice Cream!

[wareagle69]

in my thread i asked why are you here? trax then said cuz of the ice cream
he stays here because .......? i forget, why are you still here trax?

[trax]

Came for the ice cream, stayed to be vol's little pal!!

[trax]

to my friendship with volwest....Some other forum offers ice cream with say...hot fudge topping...I'm outta here:rolleyes:

[corndog-44]

NorthWind; Thriving in the woods is much different than surviving in the woods even though the basic skills are much the same. Woodcraft offers pathways to both relationships. The origins of woodcraft date back to pre-historic times when a deep understanding of the natural world was essential to survival. These days there's not much call for such skills. Or is there? What if your car broke down and you found yourself stranded in the middle of nowhere? You're now in a survival situation and these woodcraft skills becomes survival skills. I'm partial to the early American eastern long hunters and their woodcraft skills (in fact, they are the reason that I got interested in woodcrafting). In my opinion, there is no braver lot than these early hunters.

[corndog-44]

volwest; I wasn't here when you posted this. Interesting reading and in it I found 6 subjects that would be good thread starters, such as:

1) Wilderness Mysticism (Universal features within mystical experience suggest physiological basis)

2) Survival Cannibalism (Is rare and explicable in many cases, yet is still an act that is often punishable by law)

3) Refugee Camps (People in refugee camps usually become poorer and remain dependant on food aid for survival)

4) Hunger (World hunger and hunger in the United States)

5) MotherNature/Earth (Mother Earth may refer to Mother Nature; a common metaphorical for the giver and sustainer of life)

6) Food (How do people use food to make sense of the world?)

[jose lobo]

Its a myth,
i think, that we can imagine, that we are really prepare for live, or survival. everything is a test, and the test you are in, is yours alone.
now, if you want to live in the wood, and test your soul there. than do it!
because if you don't, you may not survive one more day in the town you live. might just swallow a plum seed and keel over.

the true truth out there is that the challenges out there in the wild are real and exciting, and also boring as hell, most of the time. so bring some books and a friend or two.

[BillHay]

I suggest volwest is a troll, here only to instill hostility and infighting.

[Sarge47]

I suggest volwest is a troll, here only to instill hostility and infighting.

I agree with you Bill, I'll pass your post on to the administrator for his assessment. Do any others feel this way?

[FVR]

No, I don't.

VW has a way of bringing out "something" in some posters. Don't know why, don't really care, as it's their problem.

All because a poster causes a little conflict, you just want to have him booted off the site? If this is the case, those who want him booted would never survive the USMC site that I'm on. But then again, maybe some are just not tough enough.

Conflict is not always bad. Conflict brings to the table new ideas, ones that some would never ever even consider. Conflict in reality brings change, whether you like it or not. It gives you a perspective that may question your way of thinking.

If you can't SURVIVE VW's posts, ya'll really have a problem.

His posts question everything. He does not give you answers but gives you ideas to make your own conclusions, based on your beliefs and bias'. Kind of like a Pyschologist. Hmmmm..........I just wonder?

[BillHay]

We now have a liberal definition and excuse for trolling, other than it being fun, now it is kind of like being a psycholigist, welcome to the intraweb....

[FVR]

Bill,

You've never read his bio so of course you would not know. But, then I have never read your bio, so I guess I don't know.

[BillHay]

I see what he presents, I came here as a troll too, but I stayed cause I like sarge, I know a troll when I see one, this may be a whole new game for you, watch and see what happens.....

[FVR]

Bill,

I assume from your post that you are an expert at this.

I'll just sit back and watch the trolls at work.

May even get a good laugh now and then.

I like Sarge to, but that does not mean I agree with his every word. Same goes with VW, WE, and many others on the site. Never been too much of a follower, kind of like making my own path through the woods. Just so happens that there are a few here that have similar paths.

[Sarge47]

No, I don't.

VW has a way of brining out "something" in some posters. Don't know why, don't really care, as it's their problem.

All because a poster causes a little conflict, you just want to have him booted off the site? If this is the case, those who want him booted would never survive the USMC site that I'm on. But then again, maybe some are just not tough enough.

Conflict is not always bad. Conflict brings to the table new ideas, ones that some would never ever even consider. Conflict in reality brings change, whether you like it or not. It gives you a perspective that may question your way of thinking.

If you can't SURVIVE VW's posts, ya'll really have a problem.

His posts question everything. He does not give you answers but gives you ideas to make your own conclusions, based on your beliefs and bias'. Kind of like a Pyschologist. Hmmmm..........I just wonder?

Never been a Marine, always wanted to be, an American Marine, not a French one. FVR apparently conflict does matter as Nell posted asking me not to fight with Vol West anymore. You noticed she didn't ask HIM to behave himself. I agreed for the betterment of the group and for the fact that I wasn't accomplishing anything with it. Bill Hay is 100% correct in his judgement, however I want to see what the administrator says. If he agrees with Bill then the right action will be taken, if he agrees with you then Vol will stay. I do not dis-like Vol West, but I'm pretty certain he's a fraud in most areas. There were many of you who supported him in our disagreement before he left and he didn't stay; even though the majority liked what he was writing. He also removed his posts that bore evidence of his fraudulent nature. Now he's back and posting long posts like a madman. Why? Why are we so important to him? I do not trust him and I'll say it to his face. There's your conflict. This in itself is no reason to ban him. My feelings do not matter in the equation. I'm striving to be as objective as I can in this matter and will continue to do so. I quit questioning my way of thinking when I found my faith, then I was shown how to think. No human can change that for me just because they think they know a lot. There's a difference between deliberately stirring up trouble rather just raising conflicting view points, or resorting to personal attacks by calling someone names, calling them "old man" like it's a derogatory remark. What kind of "high-toned" professional behaves like that? However their is one point in VW's favor, if you call him at home he will speak ina french accent. (oui, mon ami.) Now that's comforting?????????????

[FVR]

Sarge,

You're the moderator and need to do what you think is right. I may not agree, but then I'm not the moderator.

I really wonder sometimes when some call others frauds on the net. I mean, what do we really know about each other? Honestly, I don't know you, only what you have put up on your bio. Bill Hay, who is he? I can say the same of many on this board who have not put up a bio, or who don't have web pages of their own. It is so anonomous, we only can go on what we feel from posts that we have read.

So to call one a fraud, I mean, who is anyone to call anyone a fraud when we really don't know crap about each other?

Now, I do remember VW's webpage. Could it have been bogus, I guess. But, it's more than most have posted here.

As far as being called names, that is so childish for the one calling the name and the one getting upset about the name they have been called. Look, Bill just basically called me a liberal. I'm not upset about it, why? Am I a liberal? Am I a conservative? Am I an independant? It does not matter to me because all in all, who the he ll is Bill? I don't mean that in a bad way.

But this is the internet. It's a place for "some" to live out there little fantasy's, to pretend they are something that they are not. Is VW pretending? I personally don't think so, I could be wrong but then, so what. I take VW's posts at face value as I do many others.

But a fraud?

Ah, I'm rambling now.

[BillHay]

I never used the word fraud. I suspect a troll that is all.

[FVR]

Bill,

Sarge said fraud, not you.


but I'm pretty certain he's a fraud in most areas.

[BillHay]

BTW this is what drives trolls.... all the trivia, second guessing, infighting, suspicion.... get it??

[Sarge47]

Sarge,

You're the moderator and need to do what you think is right. I may not agree, but then I'm not the moderator.

I really wonder sometimes when some call others frauds on the net. I mean, what do we really know about each other? Honestly, I don't know you, only what you have put up on your bio. Bill Hay, who is he? I can say the same of many on this board who have not put up a bio, or who don't have web pages of their own. It is so anonomous, we only can go on what we feel from posts that we have read.

So to call one a fraud, I mean, who is anyone to call anyone a fraud when we really don't know crap about each other?

Now, I do remember VW's webpage. Could it have been bogus, I guess. But, it's more than most have posted here.

As far as being called names, that is so childish for the one calling the name and the one getting upset about the name they have been called. Look, Bill just basically called me a liberal. I'm not upset about it, why? Am I a liberal? Am I a conservative? Am I an independant? It does not matter to me because all in all, who the he ll is Bill? I don't mean that in a bad way.

But this is the internet. It's a place for "some" to live out there little fantasy's, to pretend they are something that they are not. Is VW pretending? I personally don't think so, I could be wrong but then, so what. I take VW's posts at face value as I do many others.

But a fraud?

Ah, I'm rambling now.

My point on the name calling was that it was unprofessional and out of character given what I read in VW's bio. However I'm really not concerned with all that. You guys like it so enjoy. However if VW's a troll then that is a concern. That's something else entirely and has nothing to do with how I might feel. That being said I am trying to be fair in this matter. Besides Bill, my wife, myself, and HOP, no one else, that I know of has concurred. I've posted Chris and am waiting on his say-so on this matter. Just trying to do what's right and fair here. As I said, just because I believe certain things about people isn't important, but the stability of this site is.

[BillHay]

Who is Chris ?

[FVR]

I'm just giving my opinion on an action that Sarge has taken. Now, if you and I start bickering back and forth, degrading the discussion to name calling, getting upset, then yes, we become trolls.

There is no infighting here or suspicion on my part.

[FVR]

Chris owns the site.

[BillHay]

doesnt chris read the site?

[FVR]

He pops in every now and then.

[BillHay]

SO hes too busy to maintain the site?

[BillHay]

so he appoints moderators....

[BillHay]

and it appears he handcuffs them

[BillHay]

As an objective mod , many would have been banned in my stead...

[BillHay]

its the way of the mod panel, the buttons NEED to be used

[BillHay]

it would be a most humble audience if I were mod

[BillHay]

Wanna ****? I can go on like this all night.... another form of spammin'

[FVR]

Whatever floats your boat hoss.

[corndog-44]

I see what he presents, I came here as a troll too, but I stayed cause I like sarge, I know a troll when I see one, this may be a whole new game for you, watch and see what happens.....

Well Sarge...If you ban volwest then you have to ban BillHay, as well.

[BillHay]

Well Sarge...If you ban volwest then you have to ban BillHay, as well.

I reccomended Sarge do that, I cannot be trusted,:)

[Sarge47]

Well Sarge...If you ban volwest then you have to ban BillHay, as well.

I think, at this juncture that opinions are like armpits, everybody has a couple and they don't smell too good. Bill, calm down, please? VW may be many things, but even if I think he's a troll that doesn't mean that he is, I could be wrong. I believe that he's disrespectful, full of himself, has a bloated ego (redundant?), long winded, and an overall pain in the tush, but he's our pain in the tush. He's a member of the Wolf Pack until when/if our administrator so rules one way or the other. (BTW, love your "retired troll" logo and photo.) That's not against the rules to be the way he is. Like FVR says, we may not be all we claim to be. (What Frank, you don't believe I'm 60 & drive buses? Who would make that kind of crap up? ;>)) Here's how you can deal with VW's overlong posts. click on his name. You should bring up his bio. Also a button that reads "ignore this user." click on that and follow the instructions. I don't do that because I need to make sure that VW really is a long-winded Wolf and not a "heathen Chinee Spambot" disguising himself as Vol West. As for "not pushing the buttons", I could, but want to wait. I think VW deserves fair treatment like anybody else. Not liking a person isn't a crime. Treating them unfairly is. Just my buck two-fifty.

[BillHay]

regarding the buttons.... you have some kinf unworldly self control.... Good Job

[BillHay]

Kinf is a troll word for "kind of"

[corndog-44]

You're a good man, Sarge. I'm sure that you and Chris will handle this little problem. Did I just say, "little problem" :). One thing I know for sure is BillHay messed-up my thread here; Big Time!:eek:

[BillHay]

You're a good man, Sarge. I'm sure that you and Chris will handle this little problem. Did I just say, "little problem" :). One thing I know for sure is BillHay messed-up my thread here; Big Time!:eek:

Yor post gained at least 10 responses, due to me, why is that bad, reap the glory , you're thread doesnt suck !!

[owl_girl]

So what made you decide to Retire trolling bill?

[BillHay]

that of a private nature, sorry, long story shot, I ruined something lovely. That is all

[owl_girl]

What I find amusing is how much attention you guys put on volwest, you could start a whole thread on what people think of him like what you did with the topic Man vs. Wild. :rolleyes:

[RobertRogers]

That foliage makes adequate toliet paper is a myth of great untried bunk.

I have to disagree. I never take bum paper into the woods with me. Plenty of leaves on the forest floor. Where I live the snow gets very deep but I nearly always find beech leaves, which stay on the saplings all winter dead and dry - I call beech trees the "toilet paper tree".

Of course, mileage may vary. If all there is for foliage in your area is prickly pear cactus..etc etc etc.

[nell67]

No, I don't.

VW has a way of bringing out "something" in some posters. Don't know why, don't really care, as it's their problem.

All because a poster causes a little conflict, you just want to have him booted off the site? If this is the case, those who want him booted would never survive the USMC site that I'm on. But then again, maybe some are just not tough enough.

Conflict is not always bad. Conflict brings to the table new ideas, ones that some would never ever even consider. Conflict in reality brings change, whether you like it or not. It gives you a perspective that may question your way of thinking.

If you can't SURVIVE VW's posts, ya'll really have a problem.

His posts question everything. He does not give you answers but gives you ideas to make your own conclusions, based on your beliefs and bias'. Kind of like a Pyschologist. Hmmmm..........I just wonder?

Thank you FVR I totally agree with you on this.

[nell67]

I never used the word fraud. I suspect a troll that is all.

I am going to get a little childish here when I say this but here goes anyway, it takes one to know one,yes??? You even admitted trolling is why you came here and if you look under your name that says it all for me "retired troll".

[wareagle69]

as i have posted before that if what volwest posts bothers you then you need to look at yourself. everyone has the option and right to ignore volwest just push the button. if being called old or a liberal bothers you then it is something about yourself that bothers you that you need to come to terms with. what happened to free speech i do not see threats or bullying happeneing.

chris and sarge if you ban volwest then ban me too.

[nell67]

same here WarEagle

[wareagle69]

thanks nell

[HOP]

Not a bad idea ban everyone except the old members ban the trouble makers as Nell has called them or us I realy would not call for banning anyone I just want to se how wel VW can take a shot of his own medicine I do think we should do what we say VW left the site not to return but here he is which questions his word. If someone says ban me too they should go peacefully. VW post pretty much anything he wants rude, critical and of topic hardly anyone cares let someone talk a litle rude to VW and we get ban me. I don't care if he talks rude to you but I ain't gona let it slide I concider my coments constructive critisisum. I normally care myself in a respectful manner but will not be talked down to for any reason.

[wareagle69]

i do not recall when volwest left that he made any claim about never returning. correct me if i am wrong.when i said adios i said that the site had nothing left to offer me. at that point in my mind it didn't when the spambots got cleared out(thanks sarge) and the name calling stopped i returned to posting. am i then not a man of my word? at that time two threads started this one was the bare wilderness guys which generated allot of crap. same as other sites also i have noticed. the other was internally with the group survival thread maybe some had different expectations of how it should have gone, that too turned into an name calling festival.

when this happens then it runs off members and discourages new voices in our home.
i obviously made a mistake a couple of months ago when i first saw bill hays name here i assumed that he was the bill hay from hoods woods whose input and experience would be valued here obviously i was severley mistaken and for that i appologize to my pack.

[HOP]

Everything we see or hear is experence good or bad good experence are great bad experences stink but it is still experence . I f a person is rude for rudes sake shame on them if it is the truth it is just being blunt, even when I worked in a prison and was overly rude in my guidance to an inmate I would pull him to the side with one of his homies and aplogize. The only time I am rude on purpose is when I want to bring things to a head.

[trax]

We eat our children donkey! (Insert Shrek's Scots accent there). VW is rude, crude, but seldom lewd. He's full of himself and he can't take a bit of criticism or teasing very well even though he claims it doesn't bother him. He tries to stir up trouble because he wants to sit back and watch the results. Waii-hey hey hey ait....a minute! I just described me! He also forces people to question themselves. I hope I do too. He probably couldn't be happier than watching us all yap over...him!

I remember when Bill started posting and I called him rude, he basically "attacked" one of Sarge's postings and I was the one that first said say what you want but don't be putting people down or words to that effect. I'm not going to go find those old posts to quote directly because I am too lazy.Since then, I've read some thoughtful opinions by Bill,by the way, oh my.

I offered nothing but derision and insults to the bare wilderness numpties. So, what's the answer? Banning people? If you don't like VW or anyone else (although I can't imagine someone not liking moi :o) use the ignore button. And yeah, Bill? that spamming trick? We had a person here that did that, he got....banned!!

[wareagle69]

well put my friend

[Sarge47]

well put my friend

I'm in total agreement with you guys on this. I have learned some things from VW. Maybe it's time for me to eat a little crow; (anybody got any good recipes) I've learned that somebody wrote a book based on the Wesley Snipes movie. (Big Grin) I don't believe that VW is the one guilty of spamming here, although I think Bill Hay, (obviously not the REAL B.H.) has some issues that he should be encouraged to bring before the group. If he agrees would anybody have a problem with hearing him out? Actually he's the one that's been spamming using the reason that he's trying to demonstrate spam. The spam that he's demonstrated is NOT what VW has been doing. Bill, if you're reading this, I want you to bring your problems before the Pack and let us try to help, okay?

[wareagle69]

to use an example hoods woods have devised a warn devise veiwable only by yourself and foundation members you start a zero percent then go up to 100% then you are banned for a short or permenate period. do not know if this is applicable here.

billy has overstated his point and should be warned.
i am headed to the homestead for the next 72 hrs if i do not respond by sunday night i will be back on tuesday night.

the great eagle has spoken..

oh ya..... always be prepared.

[Sarge47]

to use an example hoods woods have devised a warn devise veiwable only by yourself and foundation members you start a zero percent then go up to 100% then you are banned for a short or permenate period. do not know if this is applicable here.

billy has overstated his point and should be warned.
i am headed to the homestead for the next 72 hrs if i do not respond by sunday night i will be back on tuesday night.

the great eagle has spoken..

oh ya..... always be prepared.

We do have that here to, and if B.H. won't comply then I'll use it. But 1st I want to give him a chance to get some help here. If no go, oh well.

[wareagle69]

well

we do have a resident psycologist here maybe those two should get together and talk. aw man i crack my self up goona miss some fun this weekend i can feel it maybe it's the full moon

[nell67]

...i am sincerely touched by some of you.

thank you.

Your welcome.

[theonethat GotAway]

We do have that here to, and if B.H. won't comply then I'll use it. But 1st I want to give him a chance to get some help here. If no go, oh well.

Well now, how can a guy defend his position when he has been perma banned while he slept?? The message read something like " You have been banned, for spamming the board and for trying to get another member banned . Date ban will be lifted - NEVER " Don try to play the diplomacy card ,then FLAT OUT BAN a guy. How could I comply? I had no time. WTF?? My spam demo was for sarge, he was questioning hisownself regarding spam....

" BillHay "

[Sarge47]

Well now, how can a guy defend his position when he has been perma banned while he slept?? The message read something like " You have been banned, for spamming the board and for trying to get another member banned . Date ban will be lifted - NEVER " Don try to play the diplomacy card ,then FLAT OUT BAN a guy. How could I comply? I had no time. WTF?? My spam demo was for sarge, he was questioning hisownself regarding spam....

" BillHay "

But use another name since the name you're using belongs to someone else. You flat-out spooked me and I was left questioning myself. I gave you 24 hours to answer and nothing came back. Here's my 1st question, how old are you and what do you do: Student? Work? What? Where? Give us some details so we know who we are dealing with.

[Sarge47]

i do not recall when volwest left that he made any claim about never returning. correct me if i am wrong.when i said adios i said that the site had nothing left to offer me. at that point in my mind it didn't when the spambots got cleared out(thanks sarge) and the name calling stopped i returned to posting. am i then not a man of my word? at that time two threads started this one was the bare wilderness guys which generated allot of crap. same as other sites also i have noticed. the other was internally with the group survival thread maybe some had different expectations of how it should have gone, that too turned into an name calling festival.

when this happens then it runs off members and discourages new voices in our home.
i obviously made a mistake a couple of months ago when i first saw bill hays name here i assumed that he was the bill hay from hoods woods whose input and experience would be valued here obviously i was severley mistaken and for that i appologize to my pack.

Don't forget that RiM & I both left the forum only too come back. Honestly I was surprised at VW's return but gotta admit it took guts too come back to a group you left awhile back. My hat's off too him.

[theonethat GotAway]

But use another name since the name you're using belongs to someone else. You flat-out spooked me and I was left questioning myself. I gave you 24 hours to answer and nothing came back. Here's my 1st question, how old are you and what do you do: Student? Work? What? Where? Give us some details so we know who we are dealing with.

Im 36 yrs old, a tradesman, I work and live near Boise Idaho. Im married and have a 4 Yr old son and two step children, ages 18 and 13, both living in California, which is where Im from btw. A small town an hour north of San Francisco, I was forced out due to the housing costs, I would go back in a heartbeat if the politics of that state would change to benefit the Americans, so I wait it out in Idaho for now.... Next question?

[Sarge47]

Im 36 yrs old, a tradesman, I work and live near Boise Idaho. Im married and have a 4 Yr old son and two step children, ages 18 and 13, both living in California, which is where Im from btw. A small town an hour north of San Francisco, I was forced out due to the housing costs, I would go back in a heartbeat if the politics of that state would change to benefit the Americans, so I wait it out in Idaho for now.... Next question?

Here's the word on Vol West. None of us believe that he's a spammer, and I personally believe that he's a "control freak", but that's just my opinion and even if he is it's not against the rules. I started receiving PM's from other members asking me what was up with all your spam, I started getting worried as I felt that you had obviously over-stated your point, as did other members.

Bill, if I was wrong about you please accept my heart-felt apology as I take my duty here to protect this site very seriously. VW was a member here before I came along and will probably be one long after I leave. most of the members here like him and agree with what he has to say. It's illogical to believe that he would "Spam us so hard that he would 404 the boards" wiping out his admirers in the process. VW and I had a very brutal confrontation awhile back and all he did was leave for awhile. This would have been the perfect time for him to retaliate in the manner that you suggest and he never did. Now he's back and yes, he's very wordy, but that's just VW. We call ourselves the "Wolf Pack and with good reason.

You raised some curiosity here with some things you posted so let me ask you this: Why would a 36 year old tradesman be a "former Troll". I mean I would expect that from an immature person but i don't sense that about you. What do you expect to get from this site, in other words, why are you here? What kind of "tradesman" are you; do you have a craft of some sort? And finally do you feel that you can get along with all of the members here, including VW? We're a team here, and devisive manipulation is not welcome. If you feel that you would like to come on board with the understanding of the above then come ahead. I, for one, would welcome you.

[theonethat GotAway]

Regarding the history of this site et al, thats your business. Your idea and my idea of a "spammer' are 180 deg. different. I think volwest is a troll, that is all (spamming and being a troll are different!). My spamming was a funny TWO post thing that got me banned.!! Whats up with all my spam?? And it was regarding your concern over your own possible spam??!! As far as the 404 thing you missed the boat. Trolling is just like any other hobby that catches your interest. Why should I keep revealing my details? You banned me without any really good reason, Whos to say you wont turn over my personal info to anyone who pm's you with a complaint of "spamming" Now maybe youve been educated , maybe youre trolling me? How can I trust you?

[Sarge47]

Regarding the history of this site et al, thats your business. Your idea and my idea of a "spammer' are 180 deg. different. I think volwest is a troll, that is all (spamming and being a troll are different!). My spamming was a funny TWO post thing that got me banned.!! Whats up with all my spam?? And it was regarding your concern over your own possible spam??!! As far as the 404 thing you missed the boat. Trolling is just like any other hobby that catches your interest. Why should I keep revealing my details? You banned me without any really good reason, Whos to say you wont turn over my personal info to anyone who pm's you with a complaint of "spamming" Now maybe youve been educated , maybe youre trolling me? How can I trust you?

If you can't trust me why do you want to be a member?

[trax]

What is it that keeps people just coming back and coming back to this forum?

Is it the high intellectual capacity of the posters? The subjects? Are we just such darned attractive human beings?


Why can't the one that got away....stay away?

[trax]

was that last posting actually six questions? OH GOD, I am so bored! have to get out of here and take my dog for a run....10 minutes to go....

[NorthWindTrails]

Corndog-44 ... I agree, there is a difference. Of course, we all would rather thrive, so that's my aim ... to gain as much "practical Woodcraft Skills" as I reasonably can, and adapt to whatever eventuality arises. Thanks for the input! NorthWind
P.S. Seems like a heckuva great hobby, even if I never actually have to put it into practice ... don't you agree?

[NorthWindTrails]

Hmmm ... I see this got stuck in the "circular-file" of a discussion that got lost in the Wilderness. NorthWind

[corndog-44]

Corndog-44 ... I agree, there is a difference. Of course, we all would rather thrive, so that's my aim ... to gain as much "practical Woodcraft Skills" as I reasonably can, and adapt to whatever eventuality arises. Thanks for the input! NorthWind
P.S. Seems like a heckuva great hobby, even if I never actually have to put it into practice ... don't you agree?

Sorry for missing some of your posts. It's a jungle on this thread :). Woodcraft Skills is a great hobby. There was a time when it was more than that...back in the late 1950s and early 60s, growing up on a small farm. Woodcraft Skills was security, food, warmth and peace of mind. Times I thought I was more a critter of the woods than a critter of human society. Maybe I still am; the wife reminds me at times that I'm an animal :rolleyes:.