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rebel_chick
07-19-2009, 12:52 AM
So I have been thinking tremedously about what my horses would eat if we had to just go and survive. There isn't much grass around here. And can't really pack a bale of hay on to his back...so, what do you all think? I am in central AZ. Basically we have, mesquite trees, little bit of iron wood, greasewood (or creosote) and some misc. bushes. I have been told ironwood bark is good for them. Anyone with any ideas?

Sarge47
07-19-2009, 01:05 AM
R.C., since you already live in Az. you might be interested in the following. If your BF has books on survival see if he's got one titled: "98,6 Degrees. The Art of Keeping Your A*s Alive." by Cody Lundin.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=98.6+Degrees&x=27&y=21 (I also have several of the other titles shown here, great stuff!)

It has a lot of good info, however, Cody also lives in your neck of the woods: Presscott Arizona. He runs a survival school down there called "Aboriginal Living Skills School" there. He would know if anybody would.
Finally, check out some other info on Cody at my blog, here.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/blog.php?b=120

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/blog.php?b=119

Enjoy! :cool2:

rebel_chick
07-19-2009, 01:13 AM
Cool thanks, Lots of his book have unfortunatly been lost in all the moving he has done. i will look that up thanks!

SARKY
07-19-2009, 02:02 AM
What kind of horses do you have?

Sourdough
07-19-2009, 03:01 AM
Why not think in terms of what do you both eat, and have lots of that. Oats.

rebel_chick
07-19-2009, 10:49 AM
Uh, as of right now I have 2 arabians, and 2 paints. I had said that I have 3 in my intro but the one filly is at my dad's at the moment. SO I only have 3 here with me.

And, oats would be great, except a horse nor me can really live off oats. A horse has to have around 30-40 lbs of hay a day, depending on their size. That is what worries me. I was really trying to find out something I don't have to take along with me.

crashdive123
07-19-2009, 10:56 AM
RC - What sort of thing (s) do you envision causing you to have to leave? The reason I ask - if you have a realistic idea of what may cause you to leave, then you can plan on a location to do it. Once you're done that, then look for or store resources in that area. In you planning are you leaving on horseback, or trailering them?

pocomoonskyeyes
07-19-2009, 11:19 AM
I too have horses and am more concerned on long term survival foods for horses especially in the winter. I know that certain inner barks like cottonwood are edible for horses,but does anyone know of others.
BTW I have Paints as well,Tob's and solids.

SARKY
07-19-2009, 11:23 AM
Think about this, Find places along your line of travel and plant native plants that the horses can eat. Sort of what a good fish and game department does for the deer population.

SARKY
07-19-2009, 11:23 AM
I had quarter horses and an App.

COWBOYSURVIVAL
07-19-2009, 11:29 AM
You probably buy round or square bales as me and the wife do. We have to go pick them up. Even if your planning on bugging in after a disaster it could be impossible to get hay. We have three horses and a mini jackass. I have thought about the same problem. We are in the south so best thing for me is get our whole place fenced in and the horses would have 7 acres to graze. You have a tougher problem in Arizona. Maybe you could plant some more pasture?

Sarge47
07-19-2009, 11:47 AM
This may sound a bit cold hearted, but remember, even a horse can become food in the worst-case scenario! Beats eating dead people! :cool2:

COWBOYSURVIVAL
07-19-2009, 12:02 PM
In the news I read of some horse owners already turning their horses out to fend for themselves. One owner even cut his brand from the live horses hide. This is a bigger problem then it seems on the surface!

COWBOYSURVIVAL
07-19-2009, 12:12 PM
Don't forget your horses each need 25 gallons of water per day.

Sourdough
07-19-2009, 01:32 PM
If things got bad, My plan is to EAT my best friend, my Wonder'Dog, and then eat his 200 pounds of dog food.......:cold:

pocomoonskyeyes
07-19-2009, 04:50 PM
You know I don't think I would mind eating my horse IF it came to that. But horses are a part of my bug out plan.Transportation, hunting, work, could all be easier with a horse. Horses can go someplaces other transportation methods can't. If power grids fail it could be easier to get grass than gas. Transporting large or bulky items in remote areas would be easier with a horse using either; wagon,travois,or pack saddle (regular saddle in an emergency).
Hunting would be easier, animals are not as afraid of mans scent when accompanied by horse scent. The closest I have ever been to a wild turkey was from horseback.
Some of the food plots planted for deer would work just fine but a horse eats a Lot more so planting one would have to be larger as well. Being from the east I don't know if these would be of benefit to RebelChick or not in the west. I've often wondered where would be the best place to be if everything "went South"?
Still I'm wondering what, besides the inner bark of cottonwood trees would work in a survival situation
I'm kinda' surprised there aren't more here with horses.Lord knows they're cheap enough now.

rebel_chick
07-19-2009, 05:13 PM
Yes, people are turning their horses loose. We found one that was caught in a cattle guard. We had to put her down.

As for eating the horse, o that would probably be the worst case scenario. You will die quicker without a horse under you. They are carry you farther withour dehydrating youself, animals that hear a 4 beat walk rather than a 2 from a human are less likely to run away before you can shoot them. Now if it truly got to that point, the horse probably wouldn't live anyway and the thought has run through my mind, but not if I can help it. Several of my horses that I have had were free or pretty close to it. People can not afford them now.

Currently, we only have like a acre for the horses. We will eventually grow grass, but I was thinking about if we had to get outta town. What are the wild edibles for the horses. And I didn't figure there would be to many with horses on here as the horse people tend to stick together on their horse forums, talk about drama. Anyway, I figured somebody would have some idea's of what kind of stuff they can survive on.

Well, my dogs not only are my best friends, they hunt for me, protect me, alert me, I need them as well. Their senses are far better than any humans. They are quite useful to me, now the cats, hmmm...they are outta luck and out on their own, they are useless.

As for water, we have scouted out several places along the way where there are natural springs, ponds, lakes, etc. I was really just wondering about food for the horses.

crashdive123
07-19-2009, 05:16 PM
We've got plenty of horses a**** on here - wait - you said horses.....never mind.

Sarge47
07-19-2009, 05:31 PM
now the cats, hmmm...they are outta luck and out on their own, they are useless.Hey, cats make tasty survival food as well, just ask the Chinese, the Viet Nameese, etc...

pocomoonskyeyes
07-19-2009, 06:08 PM
Well the both of you are just way too funny!!! at least I know you would be optimistic in a survival situation. Hey let's face it meat is meat when you are hungry. but agree w/RebelChick why waste a good survival tool unless you have to. Hey RC would alfalfa work planted around those watering holes? it's hard to beat for horses and deer hunters plant it on food plots to attract deer.

COWBOYSURVIVAL
07-19-2009, 06:18 PM
Good description of your problem... In that case you'll be nomadic. Me and the wife have a plan for bugging out and yes our horses are going. Bug in first and if necessary we're ready to bug out. Horses are like family and can't be left out. Things like a tank of water and a generator come to mind. You may have to try and downsize your herd or buy property.... I know it will take all of my muscle and alot of luck to support my 4 on 7 acres. My wife is a walking horse encyclopedia if you have any questions be glad to help.

Rick
07-19-2009, 06:21 PM
I'm the mini jackass that Cowboy was talking about.

Horses have been a mainstay in that part of the country for a hundred years, at least. Why not talk to your vet and some of the old timers in the area and see what they have to say. You don't have to tell them it's for your bug out plan. You can tell them you like to ride and camp and are worried about the horses. You would like to stay out for a week or so at times but you don't know what the horses need to eat. Folks should be happy to help in that regard.

Just a thought.

SARKY
07-19-2009, 06:59 PM
Hey, cats make tasty survival food as well, just ask the Chinese, the Viet Nameese, etc...

Remember the rule.....cats old, dogs young! BonAppetite

rebel_chick
07-19-2009, 08:51 PM
Well the both of you are just way too funny!!! at least I know you would be optimistic in a survival situation. Hey let's face it meat is meat when you are hungry. but agree w/RebelChick why waste a good survival tool unless you have to. Hey RC would alfalfa work planted around those watering holes? it's hard to beat for horses and deer hunters plant it on food plots to attract deer.

Well, alfalfa is extremely hard on horses. Especially my arabs. It burns their stomachs. It could kill them or lame them, if they eat too much, especially in the heat like we have here. Now, the bales you buy at the feed stores and what not are dried out, they sit in the field for however long (unless used to feed cattle). I am not sure exactly why, so therefore I don't know if they could eat it fresh, that is something to look into tho.

rebel_chick
07-19-2009, 08:55 PM
Hey cowboy,

if you want to ask your wife what kind of wild edibles have nutritional value to horses. That is what I am trying to find out now. wild flowers, tree bark, etc. How bout mesquite beans? I know they like them, do they hold any value to the horse tho?

Rick- you have a great idea there. I have a sort of naturalist vet here and a great old cowboy friend, I can't beleive that I didn't think of that myself, I will let ya'll know what I find out.

pocomoonskyeyes
07-19-2009, 09:17 PM
Ok alfalfa is not as bad as you think as it contains calcium and helps with indigestion and ulcers. But the wildlife mixture for deer contains other things like rye grass, sort of a pasture mix ready to go,and if it attracts wildlife so much the better.

rebel_chick
07-19-2009, 09:24 PM
the pasture mix is ok. But you don't think alfalfa is bad? I was feeding my gelding mix, (alfalfa/bermuda) he was nuts, he couldn't think straight and tried to bolt with me several times. I switched him over to bermuda, hes a completely different horse. I have seen alfalfa kill horses. I have also seen it make the horse lame. When it is 120 degrees out and you are giving the horse food that is basically fast burning energy, it makes them hot, and if they are already a hot breed then, you have a big mess on your hands. I don't know why, I just know that it is. Vets, horse folks, anyone around here will tell you the same. If it is mixed with some sort of grass it generally is ok, its the straight, green, wet alfalfa that really effects them. Now in the winter time, they could use a little extra of that heat.

Now that mix seed is something to look into. Where do I find it?

pocomoonskyeyes
07-19-2009, 10:09 PM
A lot of hunting supply stores/outlets carry something like that and it would probably be better to look locally instead of nationally as it will probably contain plants that are suitable for your environment. Considering the heat yeah green alfalfa could be bad especially for hot blood breeds like your Arabs. For a survival breed of horse I don't think anything could beat a Mustang here in the US.they'll drink water other horses would turn up their noses at, and can find food other breeds would miss. If I could find a pinto mustang that would be my first choice. Piinto cause of the uneven coat would help them blend in better I think,especially in Winter. Good for hunting I think,if not pinto,then black,then sorrel,for the same reasons...blending in.

COWBOYSURVIVAL
07-20-2009, 05:58 AM
She read over your post and said simply that the horses will just have to browse for food as I had said they'll have to cover some ground to stay fed with the sparse sources available. We feed bermuda. My Paint Quarter gets real "hot" when we have given him feed. He doesn't get any. Our 19 yr. old arabian gets old lady feed. The horse will choose what to eat in the wild, it would be hard I would think to gather any acceptable amount of feed from the wild yourself. I know my 4 eat 800lbs. a week in addition to free grazing.

rebel_chick
07-20-2009, 06:51 PM
guess they would have to do some adapting huh? I try not to feed grain, it is a huge hassle, but some need it. I found this stuff by purina called amplify, its supposed to help them gain weight without all the stuff that makes them hot. Haven't tried it, my feed store just ordered me a bag tho.

finallyME
08-06-2009, 11:45 AM
Isn't the rule:

Beer for the horses,
whiskey for the men?

:wine::pepsi:

rebel_chick
08-06-2009, 12:00 PM
LOL I have not doubt in my mind that my horses would drink beer. LOL. But whiskey for my men...eeehhhh...they aint that good.

pocomoonskyeyes
08-06-2009, 12:03 PM
I don't know if this applies or not buuut I've read that to keep your horses warm in winter feed more hay than grain,as digestion of the hay gives them more warmth than the sweet feed. If the same holds true it sems that feeding less hay and more sweet feed in the summer would provide more nutrition and less "heat" from digestion. Just a thought, don't know for sure. Cowboy I have 6 - 4 adults and 2 foals and they don't eat as much as you are feeding,and on a body condition scale they are probably a 6, just a little fat. They will lose some weight in the winter though, bringing them down to a 5.

COWBOYSURVIVAL
08-06-2009, 12:18 PM
We have 2 we are trying to put some weight on, a result of the boarder we used prior to buying our new place. The other thing is My Paint Qtr. is huge and very active so he eats his fair share too! How big is your pasture? Our horses have 2 acres. We do not put them in stalls either so they are used to the environment. I think it is a shame if a horse cannot thrive in an outdoor environment.

pocomoonskyeyes
08-06-2009, 12:47 PM
Yeah I agree with that last Cowboy, I have to board my horses,and my Stallion stays up about half the time in a stall. The landowner Will not Handle him at all as he has very limited knowledge of horses. They and 3 others run on about 10 acres,and we use pasture rotation. Pasture is a mix of Fescue,timothy,orchard grasses and red,and white clover. So it's a little over an acre/horse we augment the pasture with some hay occassionally. Even when the Stallion is out (daytime run)he is only on about 1/4 acre, and feed him hay 1x /day and sweet feed 1x/day and he is getting just a little overweight as I said about a 6 on the body condition score. mares are between 5 and 6. Mares get sweet feed 2x/week. For the most part they are easy keepers.

rebel_chick
08-06-2009, 12:51 PM
It may be different where ya'll live but i we feed sweet feed during the summer, you might as well give them a bullet in the head. They will be miserable. But, I don't feed sweet feed at all bc it makes them hot in an already 120+ degree weather. I was in the feed store the other day and we were just talking about how many people are still feeding sweet feed in the middle of July. And that applies to any horse out here. Bermuda hay is a slower burning energy so it keeps them from getting to hot in the summer yet keeps the heat in in the winter. Grain is over-rated. Most horses do not need it.

My pasture is about an acre of moon dust! I hate it. Yea, Cowboy, I know that they would have to move to find food but was wonderdering what is really good or really bad for them. I guess the horse will tell me. I know that they are picky, they won't eat certain weeds and stuff. Maybe I will spend a weekend out and see what they do.

POCO- the standard for a horse at 1,000lb horse will eat 20 lbs of hay per day. But that depends on your horse. If they need extra for weight, coat, hooves, etc. My guys get free fed bermuda, when they are full, they just stop eating on go about their normal day. when they get hungry again, they will go much for half hour or so, and stop again. I am just telling what I know and what I have learned in the past ten years or so of trial and error and people who know "everything".

O Cowboy- I wanted to tell you also to try the Purina Amplify. Supposed to be great for putting weight on with out making them hot. Haven't tried it yet, guess it is kinda expensive. Let me know if you check it out tho. I am still stuck on the beet pulp, just bought a new bag, trying in a new way to try to get weight on this arab.

SARKY
08-06-2009, 01:59 PM
R_C, How much pasture do you have? I had 3 acres and 2 horses turned that into moon dust(summer)/mud puddle(spring and fall) in one year. So what I did was fence their pasture in half and seed the half I kept them out of. the following year I swapped pastures and did the sme.

COWBOYSURVIVAL
08-06-2009, 03:12 PM
Sarky,

I am working on doing the same we have another pasture outside of the 2 acre pasture and we seeded it with bermuda. We are also planning to partition the 2 acre pasture soon.

equus
08-06-2009, 03:51 PM
by splitting your pastures and rotating them then it will give your horses grass all yaer during the spring and into the fall. where poco and i board our horses there are a total of 9 horses toatal. the stallion has his own place he does not get to roam with the others because the owners of a mare that i gave them do not want her bred again. i have a 2 month old stud colt that will be gelded as soon as possible then i will put him in with his dad so that sky has company and not totally by himself. i hate to see sky by himself alot and right now he is up in his stall because cutter (3 year old) paint filly injured both of her front legs so she stays in his pasture for now until her legs heal up and i can put her in the back field.

rebel_chick
08-06-2009, 04:38 PM
I only have an acre for the horses. We are thinking about trying to plant some grass on one side. I just have to get the fence to do that. I am so sick of the dust and wind. Why couldn't we have lived in the forest. LOL. A friend of mine has 70 acres in Arkansas that she wants us to go move with her to. I want to but don't want to leave my family. I am so torn!

wareagle69
08-06-2009, 04:53 PM
i just finnished picking up another 45 bales of first vut hay(lots of timmothy) gives me about 100 plus am getting another 100 of second cut(lots of alphalfa,good protein)
i have six acres of pasture for my two and could use more to keep the grass down
i also feed a couple of flakes a day during the summer just to keep them used to the hay come winter, don't want any problems from a sudden switch they also get half a cup of grain each with carrots in am and same with apples in pm. they are free range barn door always open and graze at will. the mare would like to stay in the barn full time but the gelding hates being locked up even at -40 last winter he still plays outside w/o any blankets, not bad for a couple of spoiled thoroubreds(not my idea) i am in the market for a good quarter horse.
when i lived in pheonix i worked at the ponderosa stable(yes i said ponderosa)they also own south mountain stables and across from us was alll western stables. i used to love doing the south mountain trail at night to t-bone steak house on s-19th ave. what an adjustment learning about how to feed horses here and keep them over winter
i like this thread nice to be able to read about others horses.

rebel_chick
08-06-2009, 06:11 PM
Geez, apparently there are a lot of folks who used to live in az. Crazy. I was hoping I would run into more people with BOV (horses) on here, I know a few have that idea tho. I wish I had that kind of pasture. You are so lucky!