Boiling without pots?

[STB]

We've been thinking about to boil water over a fire without using metals pots. We've considered skulls from deer, turtle shells, and we haven't really found a good way that would last.

Also, we've heard that putting very hot rocks into a wooden bowl to boil works, but we're skeptical about the how long it would take.

Thanks in advance.

[Rampager98]

I dont know about large pots of water but I heat my coffee cup with a wooden handled spoon and just heat up the metal end of the spoon in the edge of the fire then stir. Usually works well and fairly fast. It usually take only a few dips before the cup is scalding hot. When Im alone and packing light its easier to brew tea or coffee one cup at a time. Its similar to heating rocks just on a smaller and safer scale. Rocks Explode!!!!!
Steve

[MCBushbaby]

There are a number of ways to boil water without a metal container and few are complicated as killing big game for the skull. I'll walk you through some of the most common bushcraft techniques I use frequently.

1) If you have a waterproof hat, clothing, or some form of waterproof material (includes emergency blanket, saran wrap, tarp, etc.) you could boil water by the following technique. Heat rocks alongside the fire or placed directly in the coals until they reach maximum heat capacity. Meanwhile create a pool of water inside your hat or, if you have a tarp or other non-container, dig a small trough in the ground and place your waterproof material on the bottom. Then poor water in to create a small pool. When the rocks are hot enough, transfer them to the hat/pool and wait for the water to boil. This may take several rocks. This will also dirty your water with carbon ash so use a shirt or handkerchief as a filter over the mouth of your water bottle or drinking instrument (includes your mouth).

2) You can boil water in a plastic water container (wow!) so long as the flames touch only parts that have water. Meaning, you can fill a water bottle completely, cap it, and throw it on a bed of hot coals until it reaches boiling temp. Be careful which plastic you use though, as some will melt regardless of whether it has a water buffer.

3) If you find a flat rock and have a waterproof hat, you can use the rock as a rudamentary skillet and your hat as a pot. Waterproofing materials usually have a melting/burning point higher than that of water so as long as you control the rock's temp by fire proximity, you can boil water straight from your hat.

[carcajou garou]

Boiling water in a plastic bottle????as the water boils it does change the reaction inside the plastic bottle leeching chemicals out may not be a safe way to "purify" your water. A few had tried it and all reported that the water was almost undrinkable because of taste what caused the taste????
Try making a bark container from a non toxic tree.

[MCBushbaby]

Boiling water in a plastic bottle????as the water boils it does change the reaction inside the plastic bottle leeching chemicals out may not be a safe way to "purify" your water. A few had tried it and all reported that the water was almost undrinkable because of taste what caused the taste????
Try making a bark container from a non toxic tree.

Well it's not the tastiest water you'll ever ingest but it is safe... I assume... I haven't got cancer yet :P

[carcajou garou]

Cancer is not an overnight occurance... you wake up some morning and say geee I think I made a mistake. I hope it doesn't happen to you.
They're warning people not to re-fill plastic bottles for that very reason let alone inducing a thermal change to the container.

You "assume" well that's a recipe for disaster... boiling will only kill bacteria, viruses and such (living organics) but will not "kill" chemicals present or newly released.

Make sure that something is safe before you post....

People of all ages and experience read these threads and a lot will take what is written here as gospel.

[MCBushbaby]

Oh I completely agree with what you say, but the fact of the matter is no chemicals are released into the water unless you actually burn through the container. It's no different than when you microwave a syrup bottle or one of those ramen-style instant soups that come in their own plastic bowl. Just because you are heating a container using a different heat source does not induce a completely new chemical reaction in the container. If, however, you burn through the container or cause it to scorch on the inside, well then, now you have some extra chemicals in your water. But if you follow the technique I listed above, this won't happen and the water will be safe.

The unpleasant taste I referred to was the taste of boiled water. We all know what water without dissolved oxygen tastes like... especially if it came from a ground spring or a muddy puddle. The cancer note was just a quip. Sorry for any confusion.


Just as proof for my statement so noone thinks I'm flapping my gums here. I found this usuing a quick google search:

http://www.plasticsmythbuster.org/freezing.asp
"
The claim that plastic water bottles will release dioxins when frozen is entirely unfounded. So is the claim that plastic food wraps and containers can release dioxins in the microwave oven.

The vast majority of plastics used in food wraps, packaging containers and beverage bottles do not contain the chemical constituents that form dioxins. In addition, dioxins are a family of compounds that are produced by combustion at high temperatures. They can only be formed during combustion at temperatures typically above 700 degrees Fahrenheit; they cannot be formed at room temperature or in freezing temperatures.

According to FDA, “ With regard to dioxins, we have seen no evidence that plastic containers or films contain dioxins and know of no reason why they would.”
"

So unless you are burning your water bottle and inhaling/ingesting the fumes/remains, your bottle will never get hotter than ~100C, assuming (yes I assume again) that you take it out of the flames before you ruin your bottle. :)

[owl_girl]

It would be a last resort for me, I’m still unconvinced that the plastic bottle method is harmless. I’d be careful.
http://www.fccc.edu/news/2005/Plastic-Packaging-Estrogens-04-18-05.html

[hello15944]

can a hide or maybe a canvas tarp be hung over the fire with water in it ? i read somewhere that as long as the water is in the container that the container would not burn (maybe just scorch a little ) would that work

[tim]

i read you can boil water IN leaves.

[Rick]

What are you saying, Tim? That you can boil water out of leaves, boil water using leaves?

[carcajou garou]

Now with the news of possible leeching using "nalgene" type of plastics, even more so to watch out for chemical seepage from plastics wether heated or not.
Many are going to SS water bottles until further test are made public.

[Rick]

Plastic canteens have been around for decades and I'm in a heap of trouble if plastic is going to do me in. I only cook in stainless but do warm my Nalgenes and canteens by the fire to keep them from freezing. If it were a survival situation you can bet I'd do whatever I needed to do to boil some "safe" drinking water. I know dehydration will kill me. I know Giardia will make me sick. The verdict is still out on hot plastic. You options become a bit limited at that point. Boil away.

[tim]

you can boil water with hot rock and plastic baggie.






http://www.wildernessadventures.net/nl-cookbaggie.htm

[Rick]

Thanks for the link, Tim. You probably could boil water in leaves assuming they were large enough and not poisonous.

Here's a video on the plastic bottle method Mitch described.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/428567/camping_trick_how_to_boil_water/

[dilligaf2u2]

I have used bark to form a bowl and boiled water in that. Aspen works well for it.

You can place it right on the fire and it is not hard to make.

Don

[Gray Wolf]

Now with the news of possible leeching using "nalgene" type of plastics, even more so to watch out for chemical seepage from plastics wether heated or not.


carcajou garou, do you have a link for the nalgene warning?

Here's what the Company says:
http://www.nalgene-outdoor.com/technical/bpaInfo.html

[carcajou garou]

In Canada at least 2 majors distributors of "Nalgene" type plastic containers have volontarily removed them from their shelves until this is put to rest.
There is different types of plastic out there and not all are on the list..forewarned is forearmed.
As far as links are concerned this is the best I can do (maybe)
not computer savy enough to do more..sorry

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071223/polycarbonate_worries.html

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v421/n6926/full/421909a.html

[Rick]

Jeepers. Polycarbonate is used everywhere. Plastic ice tea pitchers, glasses, plastic tableware, some tupperware. Hoky smokes, next you'll be tellin' me Santa Claus ain't real.

[carcajou garou]

Rick, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men’s or children’s, are little. In this great universe of ours, man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge.

Yes, Rick, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus! It would be as dreary as if there were no Ricks. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The external light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.

Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies. You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if you did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that’s no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.

You tear apart the baby’s rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived could tear apart. Only faith, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, Rick, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding.

No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives and lives forever. A thousand years from now, Rick, nay 10 times 10,000 years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood.

Merry Christmass Rick et all :D
Best in the New Year

By Francis P. Church, first published in The New York Sun in 1897.

[Rick]

Somewhere in there he called me a fairy.:eek:

Merry Christmas to you! May your new year be healthy and joyous.

[Sarge47]

Sorry to be the one to inform you but good ole Santa was shot down by a Sidewinder rocket December 24th, 2001 while flying to close to the Pentegon. It was shortly after "911" and a trigger-happy pilot acted too quickly. The official response from the USAF was "oops".:rolleyes:

Now about the "crapola" regarding Nalgene bottles. This "dis-information" is probably put out indirectly from a competitor who manufactures SS-type bottles. I've used Poly-carbonate for years and it hasn't affected me one bit....one bit...one bit...:rolleyes:

[carcajou garou]

No wonder I haven't seen him in a while and I thought I was the "naughty" one.

[nell67]

Somewhere in there he called me a fairy.:eek:

Merry Christmas to you! May your new year be healthy and joyous.
Been dancing on the lawn there ,eh Rick?

[Nativedude]

". . .According to the FDA, “ With regard to dioxins, we have seen no evidence that plastic containers or films contain dioxins and know of no reason why they would. . .”

If I had a nickel for every time I heard those 4 famous -- or should I say -- infamous words
"According to the FDA"!

Let's look at what the FDA has said about all those medications that they approved as "safe", and now people are having hear attacks,strokes, or even dying from. . .??

Are you going to listen to what the FDA says is "safe"?? . . . .I'm not!

That's just like the FDA stating that there are "acceptable levels of lead" in many consumer products. Now we're find out that that statement is "false"!!

There are now reports, from extensive studies, that prove that those "minimal lead levels" are major contributors to many of the current disabilities and maladies of the last 3 generations. Things like; increased autism, breast caner, prostate cancer, Alzheimer's, dementia, etc.

These things could have been kept in check if the FDA had done more extensive research before subjecting people to what is now an irreversible situation. Actually I call it a catastrophe!! :eek:

[mbarnatl]

Here is a link off of the Nalgene site about their products safety: http://www.nalgene-outdoor.com/technical/bpaInfo.html

[RBB]

I dont know about large pots of water but I heat my coffee cup with a wooden handled spoon and just heat up the metal end of the spoon in the edge of the fire then stir. Usually works well and fairly fast. It usually take only a few dips before the cup is scalding hot. When Im alone and packing light its easier to brew tea or coffee one cup at a time. Its similar to heating rocks just on a smaller and safer scale. Rocks Explode!!!!!
Steve


We often carry a canvas bucket, for getting water, when canoeing. I've never done this, never had a need to, but you could place rocks heated in your campfire in the bucket and it would boil. I remember hearing some of the older people in our family talk of doing this with birchbark containers.

I have heated rocks for sweat lodge while on the trail. We heat the rocks outside the sweat lodge and place them inside with forked sticks or deer sheds (antlers). We often bring a tarp that can be used to make a portable sweat lodge.

My grandfather used to make dugout canoes. After hollowing the inside, he would fill the canoe with water and place hot rocks inside until the water boiled. Then he would wedge the sides out until the canoe took the shape he desired. This usually took four or five times boiling to reach the desired shape. He also made birchbark canoes, but they would'nt last very long. The dugouts - well - some of them are still around.

Rock with moisture inside them explode. Choose your rocks from an area well away from either rivers, stream beds, or lakes.

RBB

[Sarge47]

Whenever I hear these "scare-reports" I start looking for possible competitors who might have something to gain by having their competitors get "investigated"; cancer is a good "strawman".

Back in the '80's, An investigative study alledgedly proved that if you force fed a small mouse a box-car full of saccarin then he would get cancer & die. The mice were angry because they'd given up smoking for the same reason.:rolleyes: The man in charge of the saccarin investigation was a member of President Reagan's cabinet and owned "Equal" sweetner which never went through the same investigation.

So I started looking for who might have something to gain by spreading a "dis-information" scam about Nalgene and "Wa-lah!" Good old Camelback is now introducing a line of plastic water bottles that "don't have polycarbonate in them!" WOW! Isn't that amazing?!:rolleyes: It's a free country so believe what you want, but my Nalgene stays with me!:mad: