Fire by Friction....One More Time

[Rick]

I would really like to know if there is anyone on the forum that can walk into the woods, pick up pieces of wood or other plant parts and make fire? If you can, I have two questions for you.

1. What material did you use?
2. What time of year did you gather it?

Everyone keeps talking about how easy it is and I can't do it for anything. I'm to the point that I think folks are making their fire kits at home and taking them to the woods with them. If that's what everyone is doing then I don't understand the reasoning either. The purpose, to me, is to be able to perform the task if you have no other means at your disposal, which means you have no fire kit with you. Otherwise a lighter or some matches is a heck of a lot more efficient. So what say you?

[crashdive123]

Rick - I have used dry bamboo to make a friction fire. I'll do it again this week and post some pictures. I have also made friction fire with a bow drill (twice) and it took me about half a day each time (actually failed on another attempt when the conditions were less than ideal). I have failed miserably at a fire plough. While it's nice to know how to do, and could come in handy I suppose the amount of energy expended (for me) is why I carry a fire kit with multiple methods of starting a fire and multiple tinders. I suppose with more practice it would become easier but quite honestly it is not on my priority list right now.

[Rick]

I have gone to the woods innumerable times and tried both bow drill and fire plough. The wood is either too green or to brittle. I just can't get it to work. I've never tried bamboo. Not something we have in these parts. I think there are a specie or two but not something I've seen in the wild.

[Ken]

I flick my Bic or use matches. Yep, I've used fire steel and other man made firestarters, but I've never seriously tried to use a fire bow or friction with natural materials.

[Ken]

I've actually been considering bamboo as a privacy screen along some of the property lines at the new house. A friend owns some commrcial property where someone must have planted or discarded bamboo at one time. Even in New England, it grows like crazy - 2 or 3 feet in just a month. The question is, how do you keep it under control?

[crashdive123]

OK, I had a little bit of time (gotta go get rid of some bees in a little bit). I grabbed a piece of bamboo (dead and dry) and my SAK. From start to finish (fire) it took about fifteen minutes. I truly believe that bamboo is one of the most versatile materials (technically a grass) that there is. Here’s the process.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Bushcraft/FrictionFire001.jpg

Just a piece of dead and dry bamboo and my SAK.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Bushcraft/FrictionFire002.jpg

Using the saw blade – just cut a small section of the bamboo. Using the knife blade and a slight pressure (bamboo is really easy to work with) split the piece of bamboo.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Bushcraft/FrictionFire003.jpg

Using the knife blade cut a small notch in the bamboo.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Bushcraft/FrictionFire004-1.jpg

Scrape the outer finish from the bamboo using the knife edge held at a ninety degree angle. With a larger blade or machete you can speed it up by scraping in both directions but with this smaller blade that does not lock I just scraped in one direction.

Continue scraping until you have a small pile of shavings (tinder).

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Bushcraft/FrictionFire005.jpg

Loosely pack either side of the notch with the tinder.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Bushcraft/FrictionFire006.jpg

A small section that is broken acts as a holder or spring to hold the tinder in place when you work.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Bushcraft/FrictionFire007.jpg

Use the other half of the bamboo (the piece that you made the shavings from) in a sawing motion in the notch you made.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Bushcraft/FrictionFire008.jpg

As you get smoke, turn it over and blow.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Bushcraft/FrictionFire009.jpg

Voila! Fire!

[Ken]

Crash, gotta' light? :innocent:

[Ken]

That was a great tutorial, by the way! :clap: I think I'm actually going to try this. It'll be a first for me.

[Rick]

That is pretty cool. Nice job.

Anyone else? Can you go into the woods and make fire just using sticks you find in the woods?

[oneraindog]

Anyone else? Can you go into the woods and make fire just using sticks you find in the woods?

im sure youve seen all the youtube videos on this subject? why the priority for knowing if forum members can do it? (just out of curiosity)

i imagine like anything its gotta take a lot of practice. everything ive heard (having never tried any method myself. not yet anyway) is that it is tricky. very tricky. anything will be hard/seemingly impossible if you dont know how to do it until there is that "AH HA" moment when all the mistakes you have made add up to one successful attempt.
i would bet friction fire to be one of those things that you can read about a million times, watch a million videos and see a million photos but until you mess it up a million times it wont make sense.

hence my procrastination in trying to learn it :/

[Rick]

why the priority for knowing if forum members can do it?

It isn't a priority. I figured if anyone could really do it, someone on here could. Yes, I've seen all the vids but they don't show you how they walk out and select the wood components. They just show you the wood all ready to use then the mechanics of how to make it work. I've grown really cynical that you can just walk out in the wild, start picking up sticks and make fire. I'm trying to figure out if I'm going about it all wrong or if finding stuff in the wild and using it is even practical. I'm just trying to learn.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

I would really like to know if there is anyone on the forum that can walk into the woods, pick up pieces of wood or other plant parts and make fire? If you can, I have two questions for you.

1. What material did you use?
2. What time of year did you gather it?

Everyone keeps talking about how easy it is and I can't do it for anything. I'm to the point that I think folks are making their fire kits at home and taking them to the woods with them. If that's what everyone is doing then I don't understand the reasoning either. The purpose, to me, is to be able to perform the task if you have no other means at your disposal, which means you have no fire kit with you. Otherwise a lighter or some matches is a heck of a lot more efficient. So what say you?

Its not just you Rick, i find it extreemly difficult to build friction fires with air moist materials.

there is only one time that it was easy for me and that was in late summer after a 4 month drought. it was near mid day in full sun and the wood had baked for a few hours before i used them, it was hot low humidity and dead bone dry. (Sycamore is what i used)

[oneraindog]

...they don't show you how they walk out and select the wood components. They just show you the wood all ready to use then the mechanics of how to make it work. I've grown really cynical that you can just walk out in the wild, start picking up sticks and make fire. ...


like this guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPk28DiIWPU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94XYwGToVwY

a series of slightly lesser quality production value, and with more stuttering:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIZ7MHxAtNg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt14-rtyCI0

another guy starting from scratch in the woods AND THE WET!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1mp_M0O1rk

youd have to be pretty cynical to think they were all faking it and actually brought in their pre made kits :)

i am actually trying to be helpful. i hope this isnt coming off too condescending haha

[crashdive123]

This is my absolute favorite video on making a bow drill. Should be easy right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmipIIBpzMk

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

ive posted on ray mears. i use his Outdoor survival handbook,(he highlights the use of brackets and working with birch bark. he uses sycymore also. a hard wood that turns to a powder easily(when very dry).

[crashdive123]

I've actually been considering bamboo as a privacy screen along some of the property lines at the new house. A friend owns some commrcial property where someone must have planted or discarded bamboo at one time. Even in New England, it grows like crazy - 2 or 3 feet in just a month. The question is, how do you keep it under control?

Ken - I don't have any on my property, but a few of my customers do. At one, a doctors office - every time I need some for a project I tell them I'm cutting it back to keep the rats away (which is true) and then tell them I'll haul it away and dispose of it to save them the trouble. You've just gotta cut back what you don't want.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

squeaky white woods. black ant trees, all tough to me it seems like, ive had successes (few enough to bring a flint stick) i have a fire board set that i found on a beach in miami. and its a good one, i carry it with me.its a lot of effort. the several minutes of sawing with the bow. the spring pole works well.

[oneraindog]

... Should be easy right?...[/url]

anything looks easy if your watching someone who really knows what they are doing

heres another guy making the effort from scratch. discussing types of wood to use, what to look for, how to shape them and trying his best not to cut off a finger:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isUJns93in4

granted hes in his back yard but...eh.

this kid is also in his backyard but he starts from scratch and i dont think he got the piece of wood at home depot...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6UALU0-UZY

[endurance]

I like George Carlin's take on it: "How come some dumb f'er can drop a cigarette in the forest and start a 50,000 acre fire, but I can't start a Hibachi with napalm and hand grenades?"

I've tried on dozens of occasions and never had success. First, there's a lack of good materials, from my attempts, in Colorado. I sure as heck don't have bamboo growing around here. Pine, spruce, and fir is too resinous to have any chance of getting something started. For some reason I've had no success with aspen either. Am I missing a tree to try here or something else?

In any case, I've carried a magnesium firestarter in my pocket everywhere I go for almost 20 years and it has never failed me. Now I get even lazier and keep vasoline'd cotton balls in a hotel shampoo bottle with a screw on lid and it's almost impossible to fail, even in wet and windy conditions.

Has anyone every been successful with evergreens or aspen? I occasionally have willow available, but not reliably enough to count on it. If you've been successful with evergreen or aspen, any tips on techniques? I'd love to try again, but I've kind of given up in the last few years since I never managed to even get significant smoke, no less embers.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

Ken - I don't have any on my property, but a few of my customers do. At one, a doctors office - every time I need some for a project I tell them I'm cutting it back to keep the rats away (which is true) and then tell them I'll haul it away and dispose of it to save them the trouble. You've just gotta cut back what you don't want.

thanks crash, i still have some of that nice thick cane that you gave me. thats what i have been useing it for (to light fires) and it strips down to fine wires too that are very strong.great stuff .

[crashdive123]

Oneraindog - I don't think anybody is saying they went to the lumber yard. Look at what Erunk posted. He found a good fire board on a beach in Miami and now carries it with him. I have seen that many that want to "go primative" bring their primative fire kit with them (some even buy them). I'm with Rick on this one. If I'm going to carry a fire kit into the wilds it's probably not going to be a bow drill. Like everybody said, with practice I'm sure it gets easier - just not on my to do list right now. For some of the primative techies it may be.

[crashdive123]

thanks crash, i still have some of that nice thick cane that you gave me. thats what i have been useing it for (to light fires) and it strips down to fine wires too that are very strong.great stuff .

If you want more let me know. I'll bring some to the next get together we have.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

dibs... cant wait

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

i found a stand of cane a while back but the walls of it were very thin less than half of what crash posted above in his demo. not at all good for fire i had to triple up then notch it (and had difficulties with ample heat)

[oneraindog]

Oneraindog - I don't think anybody is saying they went to the lumber yard. Look at what Erunk posted. He found a good fire board on a beach in Miami and now carries it with him. I have seen that many that want to "go primative" bring their primative fire kit with them (some even buy them). I'm with Rick on this one. If I'm going to carry a fire kit into the wilds it's probably not going to be a bow drill. Like everybody said, with practice I'm sure it gets easier - just not on my to do list right now. For some of the primative techies it may be.

@ crash. my understanding was that, besides the who and what, rick was frustrated enough by the process he was beginning to believe it couldnt be done. i understand he may be dramatizing but i was just hoping to bolster him a little by showing him examples of people who have and have also greatly detailed their methods down to the materials and where they got them. ray mears with nothing but a piece of flint for ikes sake :)

[preachtheWORD]

Hey guys - my Dad and I have made friction fires many times.

Under good conditions, a Bow Drill can produce an ember in less than 30 seconds. Sometimes it is harder, especially if any part of your equipment or material is the tiniest bit damp. I'm not talking about being wet or even visibly damp - dampness in the atmosphere is enough.

Here is a video of my Dad making fire with a bow drill in the woods.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=59869096

It took much longer than usual to get fire on this particular day.

This is a clip of a much longer "adventure" film that I made.

The drill is yucca stalk, and the board is a doughdy (slightly decayed but dry) poplar plank.

[crashdive123]

Nice video PTW. I think it also demonstrates to an extent Rick's point. Obviously some of the materials used in this demonstration were prepared in advance and brought to the scene of the demonstration. Your dad clearly has the skills to create fire with friction, but how long would it take to gather the proper materials to do it, and for me - if I'm going to carry fire starting materials with me, they probably will not consist of a bow drill set up. I can see where some would want to though.

[crashdive123]

Another point - Last night I went into my back yard and grabbed a piece of bamboo. From start fo finish, I had fire in about fifteen minutes. However, when we talk about friction fires I usually state that I am not very good at it. Now, if I can find a bamboo stand in the woods - no problems. The thing is, where I hike it is not one of the prevalant materials. I do not currently have the experience that I need that would reliably produce fire in a woodland setting - maybe someday.

[Rick]

That's exactly where I am, Endurance. That's why I carry VS cotton balls and my flint steel as well. And a lighter and matches.

In my way of thinking (as demented as it might be) I've taken a tumble in the river and have lost every single thing on my person. When I came out of the water my pockets were inside out and everything attached to my belt was ripped off. I have nothing left but my clothes. I would be doomed to build a fire to get warm. And yet, these guys just pick up crap wood and in a few minutes have a raging inferno. This is one grasshopper that is going to have to study the master a lot more, I guess. Then again, I haven't heard anyone on here say they can do it (other than the old bamboo trick. But we know what a parlor game that is).

Thanks for the vids. I guess I'm back to the drawing board. I just hate it when I can't even master something so basic.

[preachtheWORD]

I saw this guy at First Landing State Park near Virginia Beach, VA.

His confidence ran perhaps a little to the side of cockiness, but he got a Hand Drill fire going faster than I have ever seen!

Wish I could remember his name. Although he looked the part, I am pretty sure he was not Native American. At least, he had blue eyes, so he is not likely to be fully Native American.

Hand Drill Video
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=59883097

The volume is weak, but if you crank up your pc's volume you can hear it.

I think the drill was Dogbane (a weed), and the fireboard was some kind of Cedar.

The big key to this friction fire method is the "floating" technique that warms the fireboard and drives out any atmospheric moisture. It is much harder than it looks, but it is doable.

[rebel]

While at home and to experiment with different woods to find the best combination in your area try using an electric or cordless drill. It saves your arm and speeds up the process.

[preachtheWORD]

While at home and to experiment with different woods to find the best combination in your area try using an electric or cordless drill. It saves your arm and speeds up the process.

I had never thought of using an electric drill! A great idea for testing materials! Of course, the size of the chuck would limit the size of the drill material.

[oneraindog]

...Obviously some of the materials used in this demonstration were prepared in advance and brought to the scene of the demonstration. ...but how long would it take to gather the proper materials to do it, ...

did you watch the vids i posted crash?

[Rick]

That's a darn good idea, Rebel. I never thought of that. Thanks. That should help a bit.

[crashdive123]

did you watch the vids i posted crash?

Yes I did. I was referring to the one that PTW posted with his dad doing the demonstration.

[preachtheWORD]

So far as materials go, both the drill and the fireboard need to be made of relatively soft materials. Hard wood (oak, cherry, etc) will make a pile of smoke, but no fire.

It seems that the drill needs to be slightly softer than the fireboard. The idea is to fill up the notch in the fireboard with the "dust" of the slowly disentigrating drill, which will spontaneously combust from the heat of the friction.

Therefore, you need a material that produces dust as it drills. Of all the materials we have tried, dry yucca stalk is by far the best. But, if you are going out in the wilderness and trying to make a friction fire, you are not likely to find a nice, convenient dry yucca stalk lying around, unless you live in the Southwest.

The Fireboard is not quite as important, but it should still be selected carefully. A slightly doughdy, but extremely dry piece of wood is best. By "doughdy" I mean a piece of wood that has been repeated rained on and dried out, and has just barely begun the process of decomposition. I do not mean rotten wood, or anything brittle or wormy. There is a lot of yellow poplar around my area, and that works well.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

thanks for the info preacher. yellow poplar is one of me sucess woods for fire also

[oneraindog]

Yes I did. I was referring to the one that PTW posted with his dad doing the demonstration.

i take back everything bad i ever said about you.

[crashdive123]

Don't take it ALL back. Some of it's probably true.

[snakeman]

I have been trying for months at the bowdrill, and I can get smoke within seconds and keep a heavy smoke with a lot of powder but every time there is no coal. It seems like I am doing every thing right, but no coal. The best and quickest smoke and dust though came from split eastern red cedar. From what i have heard and read, the wood being very dry is key.

[crashdive123]

Snakeman - I'm not sure about Eastern Red Cedar, but maybe somebody else might know - the resin content of the wood might be too high to give you success.

[snakeman]

It didn't seem resonous and was really light and dry. It starts to smoke in about 2-3 seconds for me.

[Pict]

Crash,

Great tutorial on the fire saw. I have used this in Brazil many times to make fire. My technique is exactly the same.

Rick makes a good point in that you have to learn this skill to the point that you can do it in the bush from materials on hand. That can be difficult with bamboo because you have to use bamboo that is dead and dry. It also has to have thick enough wood so it doesn't fall apart. Bamboo is a very good friction fire material when you have the right stuff.

I think it is good to bear in mind that most people who use primitive skills for real have several advantages. They collect materials over the course of the entire growing season and they have a wealth of local knowledge to add to their lifelong skill set. People who depended upon friction fire often did make their friction fire set in camp and carry it with them until parts wore out. It was common that such fire sets were carried in waterproof containers, especially in South America and other jungle environments.

In places where matches and lighters have become available friction fire skills die very quickly. In my area of Brazil friction fire isn't even a dim memory because it was replaced with the flint and steel starting about five hundred years ago. You can still find old timers lighting their corn husk cigars this way. Mac

[Pict]

Endurance,

Have you tried Aspen roots? I have heard that they are very good material for friction fire. If you find an Aspen that tipped over or has had its roots washed out in a creekbed you might give them a try.

It is very hard to find soft woods in Central Brazil most of them are rock hard or filled with resin. I seriously doubt I could collect the materials and make friction fire in any reasonable amount of time in my home state apart from using bamboo. That's why I have a mag-block laced to my machete sheaths. Mac

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/6314/img270817085282.jpg
Mag block on machete, BSA Hotspark on Mora.

[dolfan87]

Rick- I have successfully built a friction fire from materials I found while camping...but it was here in the desert where everything is dry almost all the time. I can show you pictures, but would it be of any value considering our vastly differing locations?

[Mischief]

Thanks Crash

Have you found the thickness to be significant in the bamboo method? All the bamboo around here ,Panama City area ,is thin 1/16 +-

[crashdive123]

Thanks Crash

Have you found the thickness to be significant in the bamboo method? All the bamboo around here ,Panama City area ,is thin 1/16 +-

If by thickness you mean the wall thickness, then IMO it is important to use materials with a thick enough wall to hold up under the pressure of the sawing motion. The thinner walled pieces will break under the pressure.

If you are talking about the over all thickness of the bamboo (diameter) then no, I haven't noticed a big difference. I will point out however that the bamboo that I have access to is much smaller than the stuff that was available to me in places like the jungles of Guam. Some of that stuff was huge! We'd make canteens and rice steamers out of them.

[Mischief]

Yes wall thickness. Looking at your pic's again looks like around 3/16"

Will start the thick bamboo search,or do you have any for sale?
Thanks again

[crashdive123]

Nah, I don't sell it. It's just stuff I find. Stop by your local IFAS Office and ask where you can find some. Here's a link to one that may be near you. http://escambia.ifas.ufl.edu/

[Rick]

Dolfan - I can certainly see the ability to do that in a desert environment. I would never question someone's ability to accomplish that there.

I think Mac is spot on about indigenous folks building their fire sets in camp. That's exactly what my thoughts have always been. I sure can't see them waiting until they needed it to build it. That would be like waiting until you saw a deer to build a bow and arrow. Everything was done in camp ahead of time (IMHO).

I'm going to work on the electric drill thingy for a bit and see what I can do with that. I like that idea quite a lot.

[crashdive123]

Nicely said.

[Rick]

Well put, Remy. I think you captured it well.

[endurance]

Endurance,

Have you tried Aspen roots? I have heard that they are very good material for friction fire. If you find an Aspen that tipped over or has had its roots washed out in a creekbed you might give them a try.

It is very hard to find soft woods in Central Brazil most of them are rock hard or filled with resin. I seriously doubt I could collect the materials and make friction fire in any reasonable amount of time in my home state apart from using bamboo. That's why I have a mag-block laced to my machete sheaths. Mac

I haven't tried aspen roots yet. I'll keep an eye out for some while I'm out for my ride today and bring some home to work on. I guess it's one of the few areas of bushcraft that I probably haven't put much effort into since I've never had the need. I absolutely, positively always have my magnesium with me, sometimes two or three (i.e. in my pocket, in my car kit, and in my day hike bag). I have vasoline'd cotton balls in every kit and most of my jacket pockets and while they're not essential, they sure as heck make it a lot easier if dealing with damp material. This summer has been the wettest I've seen in years and I can certainly say that I've fallen back on the cotton balls more this year than ever before. If I had to, I could live without, but when they're there, it's hard not to take advantage of them. I guess the same might be true for my bow drill experiences. If left no other choice, I just might keep at it longer if I didn't have a choice.

On a completely different tangent; does anyone else just want to reach through the TV screen and slap the living crap out of the Survivor contestants when they bash the hell out of the striker side without ever scraping a single flake of magnesium? They may as well be trashing my personal gear. :smash:

[Rick]

I've heard, I'm not certain if it's true or not, that a .22 LR will actually fit inside a fiber optic cable and, if fired correctly, will actually hit a contestant in front of the camera.

[endurance]

Hmmm, might have to give that a try sometime.

[your_comforting_company]

Yuccas are plentiful here. If you find one you've got your spindle. thats what I use most all the time. Without a Bow, I use my leather necklace/thong as thumbstraps for a hand drill and I prefer to use mullein stalks for that, but yucca will work. Mullein isn't too hard to find around old fields.
For my hearthboard I use Black Willow as it has an aggressive grain but still powders well. Black willows grow everywhere down here and you can find a dead limb in a tree within 100ft of wherever you are in most cases.
When gathering it all afoot, these are my materials of choice and I've demonstrated it twice at camping trips this summer. I usually gather these materials when gathering the wood to burn and the tinder.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

Yuccas are plentiful here. If you find one you've got your spindle. thats what I use most all the time. Without a Bow, I use my leather necklace/thong as thumbstraps for a hand drill and I prefer to use mullein stalks for that, but yucca will work. Mullein isn't too hard to find around old fields.
For my hearthboard I use Black Willow as it has an aggressive grain but still powders well. Black willows grow everywhere down here and you can find a dead limb in a tree within 100ft of wherever you are in most cases.
When gathering it all afoot, these are my materials of choice and I've demonstrated it twice at camping trips this summer. I usually gather these materials when gathering the wood to burn and the tinder.

You have an awesome quote on your signature and I like the truths you speak! Thanks!

[your_comforting_company]

Thanks cowboy.
I could talk for hours about the quote alone.
As I said before, I dont want to put up a lot of heresay, though some of my experiences are vicarious ( I was with someone who did something I witnessed, so I know it can be done). Everything I post will either be something I've done, or witnessed firsthand. I honestly didnt believe fire could be made with sticks either, till I saw a guy do it at a demonstration (Mr Russel Cutts). If his wife wasn't a braintanner I might not have ever seen it done. The most interesting thing was the items in his fire kit were things that were growing in the woods around the park where the demo was and he showed me exactly where they were and what they look like growing.
One thing I would like to add here is that it is pretty much impossible to make fire by banging 2 rocks together. Many folks have told me "I have made fire with 2 flint rocks before" yet every one of them fails when I hand them 2 rocks, but I can take my sticks and have flames in my hand in 3 minutes.
Conditions need to be favorable, i.e. gentle breeze, not raining, dry materials, but not necessarily "ideal".
As with braintanning, you have to let your kit teach you how to make fire. It's all about getting a feel and this takes me over to a post by Wareagle where I talked about the neurons in your brain being 'rewired' as you learn. Wetscrape braintan is tough to explain to someone, but they soon realize it is a self regulating process. So it is true with firemaking. Most times I dont even think about making fire, I just do the work and let the lords creation do the rest because, well... thats the way he designed the world. You dont have to fully understand HOW it works, just that it does if you put in the effort.

I'm rambling again lol.
thanks again for the compliments
If anyone has any questions, feel free to contact me. I love helping others get rewired!
ycc

[finallyME]

endurance, have you tried juniper or cedar? I saw Cody Lundin use if for his fire drill once. Haven't tried it myself, but there is a lot of cedar here in Utah, so it might be plentiful in Colorado. There is even a lot at 10,000 ft.

[Old GI]

Collect clothes dryer lint for tinder.

[hunter63]

.
One thing I would like to add here is that it is pretty much impossible to make fire by banging 2 rocks together. Many folks have told me "I have made fire with 2 flint rocks before" yet every one of them fails when I hand them 2 rocks, but I can take my sticks and have flames in my hand in 3 minutes.
Conditions need to be favorable, i.e. gentle breeze, not raining, dry materials, but not necessarily "ideal".

I have tried this , but not with "flint", but 2 pieces of iron pyrite, fools gold.
It will create a spark, but I gotta say, that it's pretty hard to do.
Have not been successful in actually getting much past the spark.

Also I have tried a lot of times to used the bow drill, and will continue to research local materials, to find something that will work, as I have seen it done at demonstrations also.
The demonstrator made it look easy, so I guess I'm just retarded, or lack the "secret", or maybe just lack patience.
Did try chucking up my "drill", in the Milwaukee, thinking that that would give me more speed, Nada.

So, I keep plenty of "Bic's" in every jacket, coat, bag, vehicle along with the fire steel, matches, fire starters, redundancy, redundancy, redundancy.

[pocomoonskyeyes]

Maybe you want to try Iron pyrite and flint, or flint and steel. Not two rocks of the same type, although they can produce a spark it has always been very weak in my experience. Try Char cloth with the flint and steel method.

[hunter63]

Maybe you want to try Iron pyrite and flint, or flint and steel. Not two rocks of the same type, although they can produce a spark it has always been very weak in my experience. Try Char cloth with the flint and steel method.

I had that down for years, actually won a couple of fire starting contests at Rendezvous, that with the flint rock and steel, not the magnesium and rod type.
I still will pursue the bow drill way, as it kinda making me mad that I haven't master that yet.

[Rick]

Here's a thread I posted on some time back. Rock on rock sparks is quite possible.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1285&highlight=fire+rock

[Rick]

Here's a question for all of you. Many of us live near natural outcroppings of coal or even oil or tar. Have any of you used these natural materials for fire starters? I'm not talking about carrying the stuff to the field with you but finding them in the field and using them? Once you have a fire started with fire bow, flint and steel or rock on rock you could have a very hot fire in just a few minutes.

[pocomoonskyeyes]

Well Coal is out. You have to get a fire going to get the coal going...

[sh4d0wm4573ri7]

I carry a fire board and spindle in my fire kit, bow is easy to make but have had limited luck with the spindle and fireboard found on the spot I have done it on occasion but find that with the one in my kit it is almost easy, the one I carry came from an old ceder fence post it worked so well I kept it and it became a permanent part of my kit. Both the spindle and fire board are made of ceder and I carry a 3' piece of 550 for the cord. I also have a bamboo fire saw as part of my kit it works well also but I find it to be more work then the bow and drill. As far as finding everything in the wild yes I can do it but find it much more convenient to carry it along rather then search for just the right material

[hunter63]

Here's a question for all of you. Many of us live near natural outcroppings of coal or even oil or tar. Have any of you used these natural materials for fire starters? I'm not talking about carrying the stuff to the field with you but finding them in the field and using them? Once you have a fire started with fire bow, flint and steel or rock on rock you could have a very hot fire in just a few minutes.

I guess this is the way I think also, if I gotta carry it, it will be a Bic, zippo, fire steel, matches etc.

I have found a piece of flint, (rock) dug it up digging the fire pit and used my patch knife, had a fire steel handle, to start the camp fire.

What material/ wood, would you suggest using for the fire board? Drill?
Old , dry, green, type etc.

[crashdive123]

Dry, non-resinous wood, preferably one hard, one soft.

[Rick]

I was out looking for some dry mullein today.

[canid]

I would really like to know if there is anyone on the forum that can walk into the woods, pick up pieces of wood or other plant parts and make fire? If you can, I have two questions for you.

1. What material did you use?
2. What time of year did you gather it?

Everyone keeps talking about how easy it is and I can't do it for anything. I'm to the point that I think folks are making their fire kits at home and taking them to the woods with them. If that's what everyone is doing then I don't understand the reasoning either. The purpose, to me, is to be able to perform the task if you have no other means at your disposal, which means you have no fire kit with you. Otherwise a lighter or some matches is a heck of a lot more efficient. So what say you?

depends on several things. what's the weather at the moment?

1.) what's the weather been lately?

2.)where am i [...and what's going on, i've been imbibing...]

3.) what grows here?

it's a very broad question and i'm not afraid to admit that maybe half [maybe more] of circumstances, i couldn't get a friction fire started any time soon. and i have been working on it a lot.

now here, most of the time it's easy, especially during the dry months, but there's a reason millions of people have set up shop, so to speak, living in this valley.

[canid]

i haven't read the whole thread, but if it hasn't been said yet, don't forget dock during/after sumer.

Rumex sp. flower stalks work great and once they dry, they stay dry enough to use even in wet weather, until it begins to decompose and gets soft [likey to fold over instead of breaking]. tinder on the other hand can be hard to come by in many situations.

nothing simple in firemaking, unless circumstances are ideal.

[your_comforting_company]

I guess this is the way I think also, if I gotta carry it, it will be a Bic, zippo, fire steel, matches etc.

I have found a piece of flint, (rock) dug it up digging the fire pit and used my patch knife, had a fire steel handle, to start the camp fire.

What material/ wood, would you suggest using for the fire board? Drill?
Old , dry, green, type etc.

I agree. If I'm gonna carry my fire in, it's gonna be a zippo or bic. pack light and save room for other items.

Drill: should be dead and weathered. soft enough to dent with fingernail. Horseweed, Mullein, and yucca are great spindle materials. It should grind easily into a very fine powder and not be sappy as resins tend to gum up or polish the hot end of the spindle resulting in a horrendous squeak.

Hearth: should also be dead and weathered and non-resinous. It should be slightly harder than your spindle with a more aggressive grain for grinding the spindle, though still able to dent with your fingernail. Most willows will work though I choose black willow when available. I have used pieces of crate which I assume were oak, but it did not work very well. Cottonwood and Basswood are also good hearth materials. I have heard of using white cedar, but have not tried it. Make sure you dont forget to cut the V-groove into the hearth for the dust to collect UNDER the spindle.

Bow: should be very hard, very stiff wood that does NOT flex when in operation. I use Tulip Poplar for all my bows. Hickory I'm sure would work, as well as pecan.

Tindle: should be dead dry grassy materials that catch fire easily. I use Johnsongrass and bahaia, and have on occasion used spanish moss. Make your birdnest out of grasses, add a few shavings of your spindle and top it with dandelion or thistle fluff. Even johnsongrass or cattail fluffwill work. I add that in to catch my ember when transferring from platform to tindle. even more frustrating than being out of breath is dumping all your dust and ember THROUGH the tindle. bummer. :cursing:

The most important thing to remember when making fire is : dont think about making fire. all your efforts should be focused on operation of the kit, posture, and breathing. there is nothing more frustrating than getting a live ember and being too tired to blow it into flame. The first time I made fire with sticks took me the better part of a day. :sweatdrop:

It boils down to the transformation of human will into pure energy. Basically you use enough pressure and friction to split a molecule into simpler parts: volatile gasses that burn, inert materials like ash, and energy/light/heat. you cause a degradational chain reaction much like an atomic bomb in slow motion on a microscopic scale. :nuke: The key is to watch the smoke from your kit. At first it will be gray, then will turn yellowish, which indicates a live ember. Be sure you blow that tiny ember GENTLY into the dust pile to make it grow large enough to be transferred.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=143&pictureid=1067
tulip poplar bow, yucca spindle, limestone socket, black willow hearth

A good book on the subject is "Fire Making Art" by Russel Cutts.

[hunter63]

YCC, thank you, that does add some useful information to mix, (actually has been a lot from everyone).
I guess because it is one ski;; I haven't mastered, I get frustrated when ever I try it.
Thanks again.

P.S. I actually found a "socket rock" in a dry stream bed, while on one of my
"expeditions".
Has a perfect hole in it and if you put it in your hand it fits perfectly.

[hunter63]

Here's a couple of the pic's of the bow drill "socket" I found.
I will be going to a "clean and sort" session at the local collage, for the local Archaeological Society, which I am a member.
I will ask the expert what he thinks.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/PICT0772crop.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/PICT0777crop.jpg

Also pictured is a stone adz (I think), that has tool mark for the groove to tie it on a handle, as well as the fact that it fits perfectly in my right hand.

[crashdive123]

Wouldn't be interesting to know the real history of those tools. Nice finds.

[Rick]

I would suspect that is an acorn grinding stone. Where villages were stationary, they were rather large stones and had several holes for grinding acorns. That one appears to be used by a more transient people and could be carried with them.

http://lightofmorn.com/html/bychance.htm

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Acorn_grinding_stone-750px.jpg

[hunter63]

Just got back from the collage, top guy there in the archaeological group, agree that it has been worked, he called it "cultural rather than "natural", but in his opinion it was inconclusive.
Thanks for the site Rick, does look like the acorn stone, but the sides are straight, and show signs of a turning motion, (wear marks).
I also have a grinding stone in my collection, and the sides are more tapered.

You want to do a thread on "Finds"?

[rwc1969]

I just got done watchin Lil' Joe from Bonanza start a fire in the fireplace by using a bowdrill. He made it look easy and after a minute or so of drilling, and flirtin with a girl at the same time, the fire lit right up. He didn't even have to blow on it. PooF! Fire!

He did appear to be a lil sweaty. I guess they threw that in for realism. LOL!

[Rick]

That and the match head under the spindle helped.:innocent:

[crashdive123]

Along with the flash powder that the pyro guys laid down.

[Canadian-guerilla]

I saw this guy at First Landing State Park near Virginia Beach, VA.

His confidence ran perhaps a little to the side of cockiness, but he got a Hand Drill fire going faster than I have ever seen!

Wish I could remember his name. Although he looked the part, I am pretty sure he was not Native American. At least, he had blue eyes, so he is not likely to be fully Native American.

Hand Drill Video
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=59883097

The volume is weak, but if you crank up your pc's volume you can hear it.

I think the drill was Dogbane (a weed), and the fireboard was some kind of Cedar.

The big key to this friction fire method is the "floating" technique that warms the fireboard and drives out any atmospheric moisture. It is much harder than it looks, but it is doable.


just heard about this " floating technique " yesterday, i'll put it on my " to try " list

Floating Hand Drill Technique Explained (http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/handdrill/floating/floating.html)

Floating Hand Drill - Movies (http://wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/handdrill/floating/movies.html)

[Chris]

I've actually been considering bamboo as a privacy screen along some of the property lines at the new house. A friend owns some commrcial property where someone must have planted or discarded bamboo at one time. Even in New England, it grows like crazy - 2 or 3 feet in just a month. The question is, how do you keep it under control?
Old post, old thread.

But make sure you're not talking about japanese knotweed, maybe people think it is bamboo, it isn't.

Very few bamboos survive in cooler weather, mostly just fargesia nitida for zones 6 anr 5, which is a clumping mountain bamboo, not a spreading bamboo and so not good for a hedge.