Water

[remy]

Ecoloblue28.

Here is an interesting machine.
It extract water out of the air...purifies it and stores it.
You get one to four gallons of water per day depending on the humidity level of your environment.
It runs on electricity, but they are coming out with a solar panel powered model.

A bit pricey as of now (around $1300)...but it is an ingenious system.
Water storage, especially for city folks with limited space, can be pretty cumbersome. This machine solves the problem efficiently.

Something to watch as i am sure the design will improve, and the price will go down.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU2_vHXjsyE&feature=related

[Ken]

Cool device. Interesting link. But I think you could do just as well with a dehumidifier and a water purifier for a lot less $$$$$.

[Ken]

You may be right...
I can also make a radio out of a potato and a razor blade...

Would you be kind enough to post the instructions on how to do this?

[crashdive123]

Pretty cool device, and as you say improvements will probably be made.

[crashdive123]

Would you be kind enough to post the instructions on how to do this?

Instructions can be found here http://www.amazon.com/Potato-Radio-Dizzy-Experiments-Scientist/dp/0399529926

[Ken]

Instructions can be found here http://www.amazon.com/Potato-Radio-Dizzy-Experiments-Scientist/dp/0399529926

No $hit..........! Does it work like a crystal radio?

[crashdive123]

Don't know - I didn't buy the book.

[Pict]

A dehumidifier does pull in a great deal of water. However, I any place I've ever used one finding water was not a problem we were trying to get rid of it. Mac

[bulrush]

Compared to this machine, at $200 a Berkey is a good deal and the elements last for, about 1000 gallons of water.

[SARKY]

A better investment for getting water out of the air is a very simple system using pvc pipe buried in the ground (much like a septic system) with intakes just above ground level. And a pipe running from the underground pipes to a cystern. The whole idea is that as the moisture laden air contacts the cool walls of the pvc pipe, the water condenses on the walls and drains into the cystern. By forcing?sucking air into the system it becomes more efficient. You can build this system yourself from parts you purchase at the hardware store.

[jbone]

A better investment for getting water out of the air is a very simple system using pvc pipe buried in the ground (much like a septic system) with intakes just above ground level. And a pipe running from the underground pipes to a cystern. The whole idea is that as the moisture laden air contacts the cool walls of the pvc pipe, the water condenses on the walls and drains into the cystern. By forcing?sucking air into the system it becomes more efficient. You can build this system yourself from parts you purchase at the hardware store.

Excellent! Any idea where to find more information on this type of setup? I would do a google search but I have no idea what to look for. Thanks!

[Mountain Man]

A better investment for getting water out of the air is a very simple system using pvc pipe buried in the ground (much like a septic system) with intakes just above ground level. And a pipe running from the underground pipes to a cystern. The whole idea is that as the moisture laden air contacts the cool walls of the pvc pipe, the water condenses on the walls and drains into the cystern. By forcing?sucking air into the system it becomes more efficient. You can build this system yourself from parts you purchase at the hardware store.

That's a great idea... and you don't risk getting sick drinking water from a dehumidifier.

[mountain mama]

A better investment for getting water out of the air is a very simple system using pvc pipe buried in the ground (much like a septic system) with intakes just above ground level. And a pipe running from the underground pipes to a cystern. The whole idea is that as the moisture laden air contacts the cool walls of the pvc pipe, the water condenses on the walls and drains into the cystern. By forcing?sucking air into the system it becomes more efficient. You can build this system yourself from parts you purchase at the hardware store.

Illustration please. Reading this, it makes sense, but I know I would foul up somewhere along the way. A detailed illustration is a must. Thanks!

[Ken]

That's a great idea... and you don't risk getting sick drinking water from a dehumidifier.

But you won't get sick if you filter/purify the water, will you? :innocent:

Think MSR, Katadyn, AquaPure, Boiling........

[Mountain Man]

But you won't get sick if you filter/purify the water, will you? :innocent:

Think MSR, Katadyn, AquaPure, Boiling........

Well played!

[Pal334]

But you won't get sick if you filter/purify the water, will you? :innocent:

Think MSR, Katadyn, AquaPure, Boiling........

I believe I will stick to brandy, fewer quality concerns

[crashdive123]

In an effort to quell even the smallest of quality concerns Quality Control Department is standing by for you Pal.

[Ken]

I believe I will stick to brandy, fewer quality concerns

None of that "house brand" crap, I hope. Crash and I prefer Courvoisier or B&B, just in case you're wondering..... :tongue_smilie:

[Pal334]

In an effort to quell even the smallest of quality concerns Quality Control Department is standing by for you Pal.

I suspected that you and Ken would be there in my time of need. You did mean the water, right? The brandy is Philipe Segundo from Spain,, sooooooo smooth :)

[Ken]

I suspected that you and Ken would be there in my time of need. You did mean the water, right? The brandy is Philipe Segundo from Spain,, sooooooo smooth :)

Ahhhh, an excellent choice. With a Don Tomas....... :innocent:

[Pal334]

Just one,, moderation in all things

[Ken]

Yes. Just one.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/11/12783635_393914f021.jpg?v=0</a>
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/11/12783635_393914f021.jpg?v=0)

[Ken]

I did it! I did it! Thanks again, Crash!

[Pal334]

I did it! I did it! Thanks again, Crash!

You drank the whole thing?

[Ken]

You drank the whole thing?

NOOOOOOOO. I finally got a pic to post. Courtesy of Crashdive's new book, "Posting Pictures For Dummies."

[2dumb2kwit]

Originally Posted by SARKY
A better investment for getting water out of the air is a very simple system using pvc pipe buried in the ground (much like a septic system) with intakes just above ground level. And a pipe running from the underground pipes to a cystern. The whole idea is that as the moisture laden air contacts the cool walls of the pvc pipe, the water condenses on the walls and drains into the cystern. By forcing?sucking air into the system it becomes more efficient. You can build this system yourself from parts you purchase at the hardware store.

That's a great idea... and you don't risk getting sick drinking water from a dehumidifier.

OK, I'm kinda dumb, so can someone help me understand this.

What would be the difference between the water that this thing takes out of the air, versus the water that a dehumidifier takes out of the air?

[Pal334]

NOOOOOOOO. I finally got a pic to post. Courtesy of Crashdive's new book, "Posting Pictures For Dummies."

Did he charge ya much? :)

[Ken]

OK, I'm kinda dumb, so can someone help me understand this.

What would be the difference between the water that this thing takes out of the air, versus the water that a dehumidifier takes out of the air?

The new thingamajig "extracts" the water (humidity) from the air (probably a glorified dehumidifier) and filters and stores it. A dehumidifier doesn't filter it, and "stores" it in an "open" container to be poured out (unless it's attached to a drain like mine is). The dehumidifier container (bucket) and coils can get pretty gross if they're not cleaned regularly, and regardless of how frequent the thing gets cleaned, the water should still be filtered/purified.

[Ken]

Did he charge ya much? :)

Crash, someone stole your book and put his name on it! Let's sue!
.
.
.
Pal, he gave it to me for free.....

[Pal334]

Crash, someone stole your book and put his name on it! Let's sue!
.
.
.
Pal, he gave it to me for free.....

Copyright infringement!!!!!!!! :clap: Theres money in them thar hills :)

[2dumb2kwit]

The new thingamajig "extracts" the water (humidity) from the air (probably a glorified dehumidifier) and filters and stores it. A dehumidifier doesn't filter it, and "stores" it in an "open" container to be poured out (unless it's attached to a drain like mine is). The dehumidifier container (bucket) and coils can get pretty gross if they're not cleaned regularly, and regardless of how frequent the thing gets cleaned, the water should still be filtered/purified.

I was referring to the underground thingy that SARKY posted about. Wouldn't it get as funky as a dehumidifier.

[Ken]

I was referring to the underground thingy that SARKY posted about. Wouldn't it get as funky as a dehumidifier.

As far as the need for filtering and purifying, probably not much difference, IMHO.

[2dumb2kwit]

IMHO.

Thanks for the reply, but I gotta ask.....when did you start being "humble"? LOL:innocent:

[Ken]

Thanks for the reply, but I gotta ask.....when did you start being "humble"? LOL:innocent:

7 minutes ago. Don't worry. I'll stop if it upsets you. :innocent:

[UnknownWarrior]

What are the harmful effects of drinking distilled water?
I've read the posts here:

*******************

and here:
*******************

I am confused now about distilled water. I'm making some cheap home made water stills that will provide 1 - 4 quarts of distilled water per day naturally from the sun. Will that be harmful to use even when there's no water situation?

Also how can you test the water you drink is harmless and doesn't have germs etc? Is there a simple homemade way to test?

Say there's nuclear war and the air is super-polluted, what kind of water would be drinkable? Just boiling and filtering is enough?

[crashdive123]

UnknownWarrior - How about making yourself a little more known and going to the Introduction section to tell us about yourself. Thanks. http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=14 It's the least you can do before you start posting a bunch of links for us to read.

[UnknownWarrior]

Sorry, didn't know that. Posting now. :)

[SARKY]

The problem with distilling is 2 fold,
1: and the easiest to remedy, distilled water tastes like nothing, that is why distilled water isn't sold as drinking water but spring water is. When they do sell distilled water as drinking water, they put minerials in it to make it taste good.
2: A home distillery more than likely will not remove volitile compounds (chemicals) from the water as they will evaporate and be condensed along with the water. You would need a more complex system like a hooch still but reverse the condensation process so you keep the water and lose the volitile compounds

[crashdive123]

1: and the easiest to remedy, distilled water tastes like nothing, that is why distilled water isn't sold as drinking water but spring water is. When they do sell distilled water as drinking water, they put minerials in it to make it taste good.


Do you have a source on that? I drink a lot of distilled water - no taste, no additives (at least none that I know of).

[SARKY]

If it straight distilled water then they didn't put any minerials in it. But some of the bottled waters are not actually spring water but distilled tap water with the minerials put in to make it taste like natural spring water.

[UnknownWarrior]

But isn't rain water also distilled water which falls into the lakes and then to everyone's tap after some chemical processing?

[UnknownWarrior]

How do you test the water purity with home methods? Is that possible?

[TucsonMax]

Interesting device. I'm going to contact the manufacturer about and installs and/or statistics on gals/day in a desert climate. If he's only sold it around Miami and for boats then it may not be ready for prime time yet.

[Rick]

@ Unknown Warrior - Rain water could be considered distilled water in the sense that it was "distilled" by the sun. But remember that rain picks up all sorts of natural contaminants as it falls. Things like dust, bacteria, viruses, etc. In addition, it will pick up chemical pollutants out of the air. Once it hits the ground then it will pick up pollutants from whatever it touches including things like iron or calcium if it percolates through the ground. So, in a sense, rainwater is distilled but it isn't as pure as commercially distilled water.

As to testing water at home, there are a LOT of companies that market home testing kits. I don't use them so I'm not qualified to suggest one over the other. I'm sure a good number of folks are here do use them.

If you are looking for some home made kit, I'm not aware of anything.

[TucsonMax]

Getting back to the original post on this product... I spoke w/ the manufacturer... The amount of water generated per day is directly related to the humidity in the house, (which yes, is related to amount outside). However, heavy AC use sucks out humidity and thus lowers amount of water created. He has installs in Vegas and agrees desert climate + AC will dramatically decrease water creation, especially during the day. The key (I'm told) in desert climates is at night, when most water will be created.

He made the point (not sure if this is a plus) that "at just 35% of peak capacity, the unit will create 2 gals/day." (Which to me is a helovalot better then zero gals/day.) Finally, there is a unconditional 20 day return policy.

For what its worth, I'm undecided. If I purchase this I will post a full report.

[Winnie]

How do you test the water purity with home methods? Is that possible?

Yes it is, you can use dip slides. But personally I wouldn't risk it. If in doubt treat it!

[LudwigVan]

Distilling water sounds like a good long term survival plan to me.

If a filter is good for 1000 gallons, that means if you use 1 gallon a day, per person (being conservative here), you have water for 1000 days give or take. Divide that number depending on how many people you have; so for a 4 person family, it will last only 250 days. I imagine it would be more like 3 gallons per person per day when you add in sanitation and stuff, so that's less than 84 days of water out of your filter.

Just rambling I guess, filters are great to have I just think people ought to be more redundant about water in thier plans. Carrying a few different ways to start a fire seems to be the standard around here, so for something as essential to life as water I think people should plan for more than one way to harness it.

[crashdive123]

Absolutely. That's one of the reasons for the fire redundancy - the ability to boil water. Chemical treatments are also an option to consider.

[Rick]

I do carry an MSR water filter as well as chemical means to treat water. I also have the ability to boil it. If I loose an O ring or the filter craps out then I have backups.

[UnknownWarrior]

I shud have asked this when I joined but better late than never ...

I have a underground boring water fitted with an electrc pump. Tho that water isn't drinkable, we use it for bathing and in the toilet. It's nice and cool in the summers when usual water is warm-hot.

Is there a way to treat / purify this water if need be? This water is "hard water" if I'm correct. I'm also thinking to add a hand pump to get it in failure of electricity.

[crashdive123]

I shud have asked this when I joined but better late than never ...

I have a underground boring water fitted with an electrc pump. Tho that water isn't drinkable, we use it for bathing and in the toilet. It's nice and cool in the summers when usual water is warm-hot.

Is there a way to treat / purify this water if need be? This water is "hard water" if I'm correct. I'm also thinking to add a hand pump to get it in failure of electricity.

From what you are describing, I'm guessing you mean what we call shallow well (generally used for irragation). If so, shallow ground water is easily contaminated and I'd want to take a sample of the water to be tested to find out exactly what's in it before attempting.

[UnknownWarrior]

From what you are describing, I'm guessing you mean what we call shallow well (generally used for irragation). If so, shallow ground water is easily contaminated and I'd want to take a sample of the water to be tested to find out exactly what's in it before attempting.

It's this thing I was talking about, to install.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_pump

We call it boring here and its done by the municipality using a motor driven machine by attaching earth drills till you get water from below the earth. Just without the well construction.

Water is drawn up from about 100 meters or so below the earth. Something like the well water just without the well.

If I take the sample to any laboratory, would they be able to test it?

[Rick]

That's about the depth of wells around here. Any hole that produces water with a pump is considered a well to us. We have shallow wells and deep wells. 100 meters would be a deep well to me but I'm sure that are lots of wells in the U.S. much deeper than that.

You should be able to acquire a test kit to test your water and you would want to do that on a fairly routine basis. Even aquifers have been known to become polluted.

Check with your municipality. I'll bet they can suggest resources for either home testing or laboratory testing. And yes, a lab should be able to check your water quality.

[crashdive123]

Yep - shallow wells around here - maybe 30 feet deep. Deep wells about 300 to 600 feet.

[Rick]

Oh, I almost forgot. You would need to check the rating on the hand pump. Pulling water from 100 meters is a pretty good pull and your pump will have to be rated to do that. Otherwise, I think the weight of the water column would overpower the hand pump.

[UnknownWarrior]

Thanks Rick / Crash, I'll get it tested first.

I'd also ask this here - liquid chlorine bleach (sodium hypochlorite) doesn't have long shelf-life but dry chlorine bleach (calcium hypochlorite) does. How do you use the dry one when needed for water purification?

[crashdive123]

I don't, just because I do not know how to measure it. I'm sure there's a way, but chlorine gets rotated fairly regularly at my house through use in the laundry.

[Rick]

Neither do I. I've never used it.

[UnknownWarrior]

I don't, just because I do not know how to measure it. I'm sure there's a way, but chlorine gets rotated fairly regularly at my house through use in the laundry.

I was thinking to put it in the backpack as a backup.

[crashdive123]

As long as you can figure a reliable way to correctly scrape off the correct "doseage" it should work fine.

[UnknownWarrior]

Other than buying Berkefeld or Katadyn for long term use at home, what would be a cheap filter+purifier to use on a daily basis?

[Nativedude]

SARKY wrote: "A better investment for getting water out of the air is a very simple system using pvc pipe buried in the ground (much like a septic system) with intakes just above ground level. And a pipe running from the underground pipes to a cystern. The whole idea is that as the moisture laden air contacts the cool walls of the pvc pipe, the water condenses on the walls and drains into the cystern. By forcing?sucking air into the system it becomes more efficient. You can build this system yourself from parts you purchase at the hardware store."

I made this system with cast iron pipe that runs into a 55gal. cask that I have buried in the ground. It also catches rain and excess ground water (from the rain).

I use silk stockings at each end to act as filters to keep dirt, bugs and other particles out ot the water. Once it fills up, I use a hand pump to pump the water into one of the other casks I have outside the cabin.

In the winter, I block off the pipe and use the cask as an underground freezer.

[UnknownWarrior]

More and more water here:
http://www.whenshtf.com/forumdisplay.php?f=61&order=desc

Getting water out of thin air:

EWA Technologies Group (http://www.wt-ewa.com/) has developed a new technology that harnesses the natural humidity in the air, and converts that moisture into drinking water. The process works in three stages: Adsorption of water from the air (getting the water out of the air); desorption of the water (releasing the water out of the containing material); and condensation of the drinking water.

[Rick]

@ Everyone. Please pay close attention to this excerpt from that site. Emphasis added...

"If you can't boil water, you can disinfect it using household bleach. Bleach will kill some, but not all, types of disease-causing organisms that may be in the water."

Boiling is always the safest form of water disinfection from disease carrying organisms.

[UnknownWarrior]

@ Everyone. Please pay close attention to this excerpt from that site. Emphasis added...

"If you can't boil water, you can disinfect it using household bleach. Bleach will kill some, but not all, types of disease-causing organisms that may be in the water."

Boiling is always the safest form of water disinfection from disease carrying organisms.

What about SODIS? The sodis.ch somewhere mentioned that they will not be liable if even after SODIS treatment something happens. Still, doesn't it kill most organisms? How would you compare it to boiling?

[Rick]

Boiling is 100% affective. It kills bacteria, viruses, protozoa and cysts. All other forms of disinfection CAN be 100% affective if all the protocols are followed. However, change one protocol slightly and you can still get ill.

With respect to SODIS, it's an excellent way to disinfect water. But if the sun isn't bright enough, the bottles are not left out long enough, the plastic is hazy (which affects the amount of sunlight), the water is to deep (penetration is best up to around 10 cm) or there is high water turbidity (also affects amount of sunlight) then it may not be affective.

The same is true with chemical treatment. If you don't use the proper amount, it isn't distributed throughout the water, doesn't sit long enough, then you can still get sick.

[UnknownWarrior]

I made this system with cast iron pipe that runs into a 55gal. cask that I have buried in the ground. It also catches rain and excess ground water (from the rain).

I use silk stockings at each end to act as filters to keep dirt, bugs and other particles out ot the water. Once it fills up, I use a hand pump to pump the water into one of the other casks I have outside the cabin.

In the winter, I block off the pipe and use the cask as an underground freezer.

If possible, can you get some pics? And also explain in more detail pls?

[Rick]

I also wanted to comment on your post #57 regarding the shelf life of sodium hypochlorite vs. calcium hyporchlorite. I wasn't think when you posted it but it sort of hit home today so I wanted to go back to it for a moment.

The enemy of sodium hypochlorite is sunlight. Specifically UV rays. If you can store it out of direct sunlight then you extend the shelf life. I keep a gallon of it in my garage and use it to keep algae out of my bird baths and water fountain. I've used two year old sodium hypochlorite and it works just fine. I make certain it is stored where direct sunlight will not make contact with it. Case in point. Chlorox bleach has a shelf life of years if it is unopened. The active ingredient is sodium hypochlorite. 1

Here is some information from the CDC:

1. Is sodium hypochlorite (SH) the best disinfectant to use?
Our investigations have shown sodium hypochlorite to be effective and have broad applications. We have investigated a number of other disinfectants (calcium hypochlorite, ozone, UV, solar disinfection) and treatment processes (filters, slow sand filtration) and feel that sodium hypochlorite offers the best mix of low cost, ease of use, safety, and effectiveness in areas where there is enough water to drink and water is not excessively turbid. We feel that these characteristics are the reasons why most water treatment systems in the US and Europe have been using chlorine for disinfecting drinking water for nearly 100 years. We do, however, recognize that the other disinfection methods noted above also effectively disinfect water and are useful in a number of settings.2


11. What characteristics are required for the SH?
First, it is important that the concentration is correct (usually 0.5 to 1.0 mg/l). A concentration that is too low requires too high a volume to adequately treat enough water to be practical. A concentration that is too high is difficult to accurately dose, raising the risk of too high a dose (which is unpalatable), or too low a dose (which might not effectively disinfect the water). Second, it is important that pH of the solution is at least 11. This increases the shelf life of the solution.2


1. http://www.thecloroxcompany.com/products/msds/

2. http://www.cdc.gov/safewater/publications_pages/pubs_disinfectant.htm

[UnknownWarrior]

I also wanted to comment on your post #57 regarding the shelf life of sodium hypochlorite vs. calcium hyporchlorite. I wasn't think when you posted it but it sort of hit home today so I wanted to go back to it for a moment.

Firstly I guess you meant the liquid chlorine bleach when you say sodium hypochlorite or the soilid tablets? Don't know if SH tablets are made or not.



The enemy of sodium hypochlorite is sunlight. Specifically UV rays. If you can store it out of direct sunlight then you extend the shelf life. .....
Case in point. Chlorox bleach has a shelf life of years if it is unopened. The active ingredient is sodium hypochlorite.

Does that mean if I put a bottle / container of liquid bleach which is unopened in, say, an emergency kit and only use it when needed, it will remain in good condition till opened?



1. What characteristics are required for the SH?
First, it is important that the concentration is correct (usually 0.5 to 1.0 mg/l). .....
Second, it is important that pH of the solution is at least 11. This increases the shelf life of the solution.

The bleach available in my area had chlorine concentration of 4 PLUS some other things like sodium peroxide and amine oxide. I'm not getting the plain liquid chlorine bleach here but able to get the calcium hypochlorite tabs.

How do you find the pH? Since the ones I saw in the market had no pH value written on them.


Here is some information from the CDC:

1. Is sodium hypochlorite (SH) the best disinfectant to use?

I found some info about SH and CH here:

Better than bleach:
http://www.survivaltopics.com/survival/better-than-bleach-use-calcium-hypochlorite-to-disinfect-water/

P.S.: I found the 2nd point from the CDC link much informative and that does make SH better to use than CH.

[Rick]

Firstly I guess you meant the liquid chlorine bleach

Yes. Liquid bleach.


Does that mean if I put a bottle / container of liquid bleach which is unopened in, say, an emergency kit and only use it when needed, it will remain in good condition till opened?

No. I would not be willing to bet the safety of my water on two or three year old bleach (or older). I only wanted to relate my experience with liquid sodium hypochlorite. Based solely on my experience, I do believe that two year old bleach would be both safe and effective in the treatment of water and in the absence of any other viable means of treatment, I would use it. For my emergency kit, I would want a longer term option OR rotate the bleach every six months or so.

I was mistaken on the shelf life of Chlorox bleach, however. I have since found Chlorox's reference to shelf life and they suggest their bleach should be replaced every year and stored as directed for optimum performance.


How do you find the pH? Since the ones I saw in the market had no pH value written on them.

Since you are wanting to provide this to a hospital type setting, safety has to be paramount. I would contact the manufacturer and ask them what the concentration and the pH is. The concern of the pH, as I understand it, is with regard to the shelf life. If you rotate the bleach every six months or so then the pH may not be a factor. I would still contact the manufacturer and find out.

The last web site you referenced, Survival Topics, is owned by a forum member, Robert Rogers. It's a great site with very good information. The shelf life referenced by the Chlorox rep doesn't match their web site but the overall point that bleach will degrade is still valid. Whether Calcium or Sodium Hypochlorite is the better product to use is outside the scope of my experience. I can only rely on the data the experts provide.

[UnknownWarrior]

Since you are wanting to provide this to a hospital type setting, safety has to be paramount. I would contact the manufacturer and ask them what the concentration and the pH is. The concern of the pH, as I understand it, is with regard to the shelf life. If you rotate the bleach every six months or so then the pH may not be a factor. I would still contact the manufacturer and find out.

Thanks for this suggestion. I'll do likewise.


The last web site you referenced, Survival Topics, is owned by a forum member, Robert Rogers.

A really wonderful website I'd say. I'm finding there what I want and wish. Thanks a ton to Robert Rogers for the wonderful site.



Whether Calcium or Sodium Hypochlorite is the better product to use is outside the scope of my experience. I can only rely on the data the experts provide.


2. What about using HTH or chlorine tablets instead?

Chlorine tablets and/or HTH (also named calcium hypochlorite) are widely available in some areas. We have found that a number of potential users of the SWS know that if they add the tablets to water, it will disinfect the water. However, we have also found that people have very different ideas of the appropriate dosing and the tablets vary in strength considerably. In Haiti, a small saran wrap bag of approximately 100 HTH pellets is widely available and inexpensive. However, the pellets are of varying size, the quality of the pellets is unknown, and depending on impurities in the manufacturing process they can degrade quickly. In other countries we have seen very high strength tablets sold, which, if added to water for disinfection would impart a strong, unpalatable taste to the water. Thus, it is extremely important to investigate the quality and strength of the HTH or chlorine tablets, and the appropriate dosing strategy before attempting to use them for drinking water treatment. For these reasons, we have found that the hypochlorite solution is a better option.

This may be the only reason other than cost, that would keep one off of using CH. One tablet is useful in treating 20 litres of water, the ones I got.
I might keep both in the emergency kit. If SH is too old, just in case, I still have CH then.

[UnknownWarrior]

I found this thru google:


Most people think that keeping a few bottles of water in the closet will provide them with sufficient water in the event of an emergency. Unfortunately most of those bottles are made from clear plastic materials and not only allow sun light to penetrate through, they also contain air that was trapped during the filling process.

Both the sunlight and the trapped air can cause for bacteria to form inside which will spoil the water or render it unsafe for drinking use.

If you are planning to store water for extended periods of time (such as several years) it is best to purchase specially purified water that has been packaged under ultra-clean and sanitary conditions and in non-transparent air-tight containers to prevent spoiling.

You should also have a supply of water-purifying tablets on hand which will allow you to ensure that your drinking water is safe, even after years of storage.

How relevant is this and even though mostly we would be changing the water storage every year or so if we store it, this made me think how safe is it to store water in plastic PET bottles or plastic drums.

I was also thinking to dig a big hole in the garage and put a cleaned plastic water tank, then fill it up with purified water and close the hole so it will be useful later in emergencies. Is this water going to be useful to drink, say if boiling isn't available?

[crashdive123]

To me, the information you found is suspect and not to be relied on. The reason I say this is they talk about storing water in a closet and then tell you the reasons that it is not a good idea. Seems that the reasons given are related to storing them in direct sunlight, not the closet. To me, it just looks like information without knowledge or experience. Maybe they wanted to start a website and that's the best they could do. Maybe it's just me, but I would not rely on information from that site.

I guess I should ask - was that site then trying to sell the viewers something after telling them why their preps were inadequate?

[UnknownWarrior]

I guess I should ask - was that site then trying to sell the viewers something after telling them why their preps were inadequate?

Nope, it was a "forum of forums", I forget now but it had less posts. I got it while searching for an Indian forum for survival stuff.

Anyway, is it safe to store water in a plastic tank? I guess it should because that's why the tank is made for.

I found some real nice videos on youtube which will help boil water using solar energy almost instantly. They are from GreenPowerScience (http://www.greenpowerscience.com)

and here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/GREENPOWERSCIENCE

http://www.alternativeenergy.com/video/video

Many of you must be knowing this site I guess. There's one video which uses "water" to make a large lens and it is able to heat / burn anything below at the focal point. Excellent and cheap really.

[UnknownWarrior]

This was in one of the survivaltopics.com forum posts but I'd like to know how many people have used this? Seems to be nice and o hardful effects and I think a long storage life too.

Stabilized Oxygen Water Purifier:
http://www.campingsurvival.com/staboxwatpur.html

[crashdive123]

I have not used it, and probably (for me) will not. Many bacterial are anarobic, so the theory of introducing oxygen to kill them is interesting. I do believe that many bacteria and viruses can survive in an oxygen rich environment though. Admittedly, I've not done the research on it, but with so many viable products available, for me - this is one I would stay away from.

[Rick]

There is nothing magical about storing water. Use a food grade container. Use clean water. I change mine every couple of months. I clean out the containers with some hot water and a little soap. Rinse well and fill up for storage again. I've never seen anything in the water. Not even a hint of bacteria or algae. Even if I did, a quick rinse with some mild bleach water would end that. I would certainly never fill the jugs up and just forget them. A disaster some years down the road would be a bad time to find out something dire had happened to your water.

[Pal334]

There is nothing magical about storing water. Use a food grade container. Use clean water. I change mine every couple of months. I clean out the containers with some hot water and a little soap. Rinse well and fill up for storage again. I've never seen anything in the water. Not even a hint of bacteria or algae. Even if I did, a quick rinse with some mild bleach water would end that. I would certainly never fill the jugs up and just forget them. A disaster some years down the road would be a bad time to find out something dire had happened to your water.

Excellent points Rick. As has been mentioned / posted frequently, a rotation / inspection scheme or schedule is need for all items. No matter the item, finding out that it is unserviceable, or spoiled when you really need it , would suck big time.

[TomChemEngineer]

This may or may not be off-topic, but a quick search on the forum didn't turn up anything on Solar Water Disinfection using PET (soda) bottles and the sun, so here is the link to a Wiki article on this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_water_disinfection
They call it SODIS, and apparently it is used in numerous developing countries. Not glass bottles, not PVC bottles, not polycarbonate bottles...only PET bottles (like the 2 liter soda bottles) seem to get the job done. Depending on sun conditions, it is said to take from 6 hours on a sunny day to 2 days on a cloudy day. If it is raining, it gives unsatisfactory performance, so collect the rainwater instead.
Might be worth an experiment or two. Sounds just dandy for an ongoing method to help purify water. Requires filtering the suspended solids out beforehand, of course, but simple filters can do that. Looks like they just lay them on a piece of corrugated and let the sunshine in. Just another tool in the toolbox, I guess. I'd still plunk a couple drops of bleach in the bottle after exposure to the UV radiation, but that is just my overkill nature. They fill the bottle 2/3 full, shake it up to get it oxygenated, then fill it the rest of the way before irradiating it in the sunlight. They store the water in the same bottle that it is irradiated in to avoid contamination. Anyway, click on the link for all the scoop, I'm no expert. An interesting thought, I thought. Anyone have any other thoughts?

[TomChemEngineer]

OK, I just searched SODIS on the site and there are several references. Nevermind...
Also a link to the SODIS site:
http://www.sodis.ch/

[Rick]

We touched on SODIS a bit with posts 66 and 67

[UnknownWarrior]

There is nothing magical about storing water. Use a food grade container. Use clean water. I change mine every couple of months. I clean out the containers with some hot water and a little soap. Rinse well and fill up for storage again. I've never seen anything in the water. Not even a hint of bacteria or algae. Even if I did, a quick rinse with some mild bleach water would end that. I would certainly never fill the jugs up and just forget them. A disaster some years down the road would be a bad time to find out something dire had happened to your water.

Thanks Rick, your post will surely help me as it answers my question.

BTW, if I'm gonna use the method like given for food and water here (http://mysite.verizon.net/resoqpqa/id11.html) , then I guess it could be hard to inspect every year or half. The StabiliZed oxygen page says the water is safe for 5 years and the above page says it's safe for 2 - 3 years. What do you do if you hide your water supplies underground in concrete and tiles? I could do that in my garage. How do you inspect?

[Rick]

Let me say that I won't put a lot of stock into that web site. Anyone that tells you it's okay to store water in milk cartons and home bleach containers is just plain wrong. We've talked about the problems with milk containers before and the home bleach container will contain other additives besides just bleach. That warning aside....

I have three methods of storing water. All are above ground. I have a 50 gallon hot water heater that is also a storage tank if something bad happens. I just shut the water off and use the drain at the bottom of the tank. I don't have to worry about treating or rotating this water because it's in constant use.

I have two 5 gallon containers of potable water that I store in my garage and replace every couple of months.

Finally, I have two 50 gallon rain barrels recently installed. I will have to treat this water even though it is fresh rain water algae and bacteria can grow in the barrels so I will treat them as suspect and filter accordingly. I do treat the barrels periodically with sodium hypochlorite just to keep the algae down.

I don't add anything else to my water to extend its storage life. I just don't think it's needed. At least not in my case. I also have sodium hypochlorite, purification tablets and a water filter with extra filters should I have to bug out instead of in.

[UnknownWarrior]

I have two 5 gallon containers of potable water that I store in my garage and replace every couple of months.

Like how many months? Is 6 months okay? What if in case of emergencies, we don't get to refill our water (and are prepared to die due to one thing or the other), then would you drink this treated water, say after an year to so?


Finally, I have two 50 gallon rain barrels recently installed. I will have to treat this water even though it is fresh rain water algae and bacteria can grow in the barrels so I will treat them as suspect and filter accordingly. I do treat the barrels periodically with sodium hypochlorite just to keep the algae down.

I'm getting some large drums for doing this. But still hiding some water would be nice in my opinion. I'm sure that in future, there's gonna be scarcity of water. And the nations would fight not because of land but for water. Not nice to hear or think tho. Anyway that's why I took the hiding idea from that website.

[Rick]

Would I drink water that had been stored for several years? If that's all I had, sure. Better to take my chances with tainted water than die of dehydration. Death is pretty certain if you don't intake water.

You know, fuel drums were reused doing WWII to store water. Those drums were filled and then moved onto the islands for the guys to use. Ask any of the old marines that landed at places like Tarawa or Iwo. They drank it and lived.

I change my water every couple of months. Truthfully, when I think about it. It might be 6 weeks this time and 9 weeks next time but I try to stick close to 2 months. No magic number with 2 months. I'm just comfortable with it.

There may be a scarcity of potable water but there won't be a scarcity of water. If you have the skills and knowledge to turn bad water into good water then start selling it.

[Batch]

I know this post is several months old...


There may be a scarcity of potable water but there won't be a scarcity of water. If you have the skills and knowledge to turn bad water into good water then start selling it.

That's the way I think.

But, since some are into larger storage solutions. Why not take the water storage vessel and constantly use that water. You could also add a filtration system as well.

You could use a plumbing valve such as a ball cock to control the water level in the tank. You use a simple valve to dispense the water through a filtration system.

If you waned to bury this you could use an electric pump to dispense and use either a solar charged batter system to power the pump or use a manual pump.

[TucsonMax]

Quote:
There may be a scarcity of potable water but there won't be a scarcity of water. If you have the skills and knowledge to turn bad water into good water then start selling it.

That's the way I think.



Maybe where you live....
There has been a drought in Tucson for the last 12 years. Our average rainfall is 12 inches/yr, this year (so far) we have had a grand total of 6 inches and it won't rain in Dec.

[Rick]

Hence his avatar. He's trying to haul that cactus home to squeeze out the water!!!!