PDA

View Full Version : New to guns



Max
06-20-2009, 11:30 AM
I've been reading through the threads on this forum, and have to admit, I'm lost with the technical terms and not quite finding what I was looking for.

I suppose I have a few basic questions, but am at a loss on where to look for reliable information. It's apparent that one of the things I'll need to do is actually visit a gun store, but I've got this belief that too many people see a woman that doesn't know much, so they'll try to snow me over. This is where knowledge comes in.

If I understand correctly, these are important factors:
1.) Purpose- What am I going to do with it and where will it be used?
My first inclination is for self defense, and learning familiarity. While I'm from Texas, I break the mold and have only been to a firing range to use a gun one time. It was a 9mm Sig that I was accurate with, but made my wrist hurt after repeated use. After my initial reluctance, I did become more and more comfortable with it, even after only about an hour or two.

2.) Size Now this is where some of the confusion sets in. I do know that for now, I want a handgun, not a rifle of any sort, and would like for the gun to be fairly compact and lightweight. As far as caliber, I'm not familiar with how this works or what the pros/cons are for different sizes.

Without saying, I will of course be spending time at a firing range for practice, and a gun safety course. I have a slight fear of guns because I have not learned how to use one safely yet. I want to remedy that and exercise my right to bear arms, without putting myself or others in unnecessary and potential harm. I've already begun looking into my state laws regarding gun use and ownership.

Is there anything that I am blatantly missing for consideration? If this is too broad a topic (which I'm sure that it is), does anyone have a link to a reliable source that covers this?

Thanks, Max

Mischief
06-20-2009, 11:47 AM
New to guns?
Are you sure you are from Texas

Max
06-20-2009, 11:53 AM
New to guns?
Are you sure you are from Texas

I know! I get ostracized all the time, and they'll often hide my spurs and 10 gallon hat when I'm on the horse trail, too.

Actually, I grew up in a major city, so that was never really an issue or common for the group I hung around with. It wasn't until recently, after much time and consideration, that I decided this is an important part of being a citizen, and if things go south in a bad way, I want to at least know what's what. Also, now that I live by myself, in a smaller, more rural town (although not completely so), on the edge of town, one can never be too safe or prepared.

2dumb2kwit
06-20-2009, 11:55 AM
Without saying, I will of course be spending time at a firing range for practice, and a gun safety course.

It sounds to me like you have the important part covered.
A gun is just a tool. You just have to decide what job you want to do, and what works for you.

I'm sure that others here can give some good advice, but I would suggest finding a local shooting range, that rents guns. You can try different guns for a few bucks and see what you like.

Maybe someone here can point you to a GOOD range/gunshop in your area, that will help you with your purchase and training.

Sourdough
06-20-2009, 11:59 AM
Maybe you need more than one gun......:winkiss: The most important thing you need to know is NEVER CALL A MAGAZINE A CLIP. A clip is a clip, and a magazine.....never mind......:innocent:

Max
06-20-2009, 12:08 PM
The most important thing you need to know is NEVER CALL A MAGAZINE A CLIP. A clip is a clip, and a magazine.....never mind......:innocent:

Isn't a magazine something used for fully automatic weapons, a la Rambo-style, while a clip is what's used in a semi-automatic handgun? Or am I totally wrong about the terminology? I guess I can just take the girly route and call it "those bullet thingies." That'll make everyone happy they let the girl come out and play.

@ 2dumb2wkit- That's some good advice on getting down which one works for me, but I dislike walking into situations where I have absolutely no knowledge. I suppose there's no harm in simply making my intentions known upfront, so they don't try to just sell me on something without actually teaching.

SARKY
06-20-2009, 12:18 PM
Max,
I am an NRA certified handgun instructor. That being said, I've seen exactly what you are talking about, and not just by the sales people in the gunshops, but also by their boyfriends or husbands who really want a gun they like.
1: Is this gun going to be your baby (what I mean is will it be your gun only?)
2: Have you thought about a revolver?
Although the safety record on semiautos is much better than it was in the past, a double action revolver is in essence inert until you pick it up and pull the trigger. I doesn't rely on magazines (to hold the ammo, it doesn't take a lot of muscle to rack the slide). If you are unfamiliar with firearms, this is the safest option (the gun is stress and idiot proof). As to caliber, I would suggest a .357 magnum, why, because you can shoot .38 special rounds in it (which is cheaper and less punishing on you) and you still have the option of shooting .357 mag ammo. Double action revolvers are avilable in very compact sizes to monsters and in the .357 mag chambering they are available in 5, 6, 7, and 8 round capacities.
If you have any specific questions feel free to ask.

Sourdough
06-20-2009, 12:25 PM
[QUOTE=Max;128823]Isn't a magazine something used for fully automatic weapons, a la Rambo-style, while a clip is what's used in a semi-automatic handgun? Or am I totally wrong about the terminology? I guess I can just take the girly route and call it "those bullet thingies." That'll make everyone happy they let the girl come out and play.


Unlikely you will ever encounter clips, so just learn to call them all magazines, or thingies.

Magazines: a four sided box, with a bottom, a spring, and a cartridge follower, used to hold cartridges.

Clip: a three sided metal spring enclosure, enclosing the back and both sides of the cartridge, it it used for rapid loading of "Blind" Box magazines, generally older military type rifles.

2dumb2kwit
06-20-2009, 12:30 PM
I guess I can just take the girly route and call it "those bullet thingies."
Hey, wait...that's what I call them! LOL


@ 2dumb2wkit- That's some good advice on getting down which one works for me, but I dislike walking into situations where I have absolutely no knowledge. I suppose there's no harm in simply making my intentions known upfront, so they don't try to just sell me on something without actually teaching.

That's one of the good things about going to a range/shop and renting. You can see if they are helpful and educating, or BS artist. I think I can tell, from your post here, that you are smart enough to tell the difference.

If you rent at the range, don't be scared to try different calibers. Bigger calibers doesn't always mean harder kick. A big, heavy .45 may kick less than a super light .380. Also don't be afraid that a .380 doesn't have enough "stopping power" that some people will try to sell others on.
(A .380 in the brain, trumps a .44 in the arm, in my book)

I think the best thing anyone can do is get what suits them and learn how to use it. Then you will want something else, and something else, and before you know it, you'll have a collection started.:clap:

crashdive123
06-20-2009, 01:58 PM
Max - you're received some good advice here. Don't be in a rush to purchase your first weapon. Take the classes you were talking about. I'll bet some of the beginer classes will provide a weapon for you to use as there are a lot of folks in the same situation as you are. Once you get some experience with a few different hand guns you'll have a much better idea of what you're comfortable with.

Rick
06-20-2009, 03:45 PM
And I'd like to commend you on wanting to do it correctly. A lot of folks will go out and purchase "something" not knowing what they really want or need, how to handle it safely or how to maintain it.

I'm with Crash. Take the classes first. Talk to several gun dealers. You'll find one or two you like, that treat your with respect and truly do want to assist you.

Max
06-20-2009, 04:03 PM
Thank you all for the sound advice. I'm noticing a trend of "one size does not fit all" and that there is a need to focus more on experience and learning before the actual firearm.

I wasn't aware that rental or on-site testing was a real option. If I thought trying on shoes was tedious, can't wait to see what this is like.

Sourdough
06-20-2009, 04:06 PM
And I'd like to commend you on wanting to do it correctly. A lot of folks will go out and purchase "something" not knowing what they really want or need, how to handle it safely or how to maintain it.

I'm with Crash. Take the classes first. Talk to several gun dealers. You'll find one or two you like, that treat your with respect and truly do want to assist you.


When you have done all your research, just ask and I'll tell you what to buy...:clap:

sgtdraino
06-20-2009, 04:26 PM
It's apparent that one of the things I'll need to do is actually visit a gun store, but I've got this belief that too many people see a woman that doesn't know much, so they'll try to snow me over.

I would also suggest you visit a gun range where you can rent various different guns and try them out, to see what seems to work best for you. It's hard to tell what you will do best with, without actually shooting it first.


1.) Purpose- What am I going to do with it and where will it be used?
My first inclination is for self defense, and learning familiarity.

When you say self-defense, are you talking about home-defense only, or carrying the gun with you when you are out and about?

If the gun is for home defense only, for inexperienced ladies I always recommend a pump-action .410 guage shotgun. Very simple to use, not too heavy, effective stopping power, variety of ammunition choices, and you don't have to be super-accurate.


It was a 9mm Sig that I was accurate with, but made my wrist hurt after repeated use. After my initial reluctance, I did become more and more comfortable with it, even after only about an hour or two.

Personally, as a personal defense weapon, I would recommend nothing smaller than a 9mm or a .38 special.


2.) Size Now this is where some of the confusion sets in. I do know that for now, I want a handgun, not a rifle of any sort, and would like for the gun to be fairly compact and lightweight.

Two things to consider: The smaller and lighter the handgun is, the more it is going to hurt your hand, and the harder it will be for you to be accurate with it. Conversely, the bigger and heavier a handgun is, the more likely it is that you will get fed up with lugging it around with you all the time. It is surprising how much heavier a gun can feel after you've lugged it around for hours, compared to when you held it in your hand for 5 minutes at the gun shop.

My advice is that you get the smallest and lightest handgun you can find that you are able to shoot accurately consistently. If you have to use the gun to defend yourself, you are probably not going to get a chance to shoot it enough times for your hand to get tired out.


As far as caliber, I'm not familiar with how this works or what the pros/cons are for different sizes.

Generally the bigger the bullet, the better it will be at stopping the bad guy... but the harder it will be on your hand to shoot it, or be accurate with it. Also, the bigger the bullet, the more expensive it tends to be. You'll need to buy ammo to practice with, so that needs to be a cost consideration. Calibers that are more commonly used are generally cheaper to buy, and easier to find... although right now just about any ammo can be expensive and scarce. The most common handgun calibers, from (approximately) least to most powerful, are:

.22 Long Rifle (teeny cheap bullet, probably too small for your needs)
.38 Special (A revolver bullet roughly similar to 9mm)
9mm (Semi-automatic bullet of moderate power)
.40 S&W (Slower than .357 Magnum, but a bigger bullet. Can be a handful)
.357 Magnum (More powerful version of .38 Special, can be a handful)
.45 ACP (Big bullet, slow moving. Generally easy to shoot)
.44 Magnum (Big bullet, very fast moving, definitely a handful)

A .357 Magnum revolver can also fire .38 Special.

Revolvers are simple to operate, very reliable, and are an excellent choice for beginners. Generally the ones you would be considering are either "double-action," or "double-action only." This compares to "single-action," what you might think of as a "cowboy gun." With single-action, you must first pull the hammer back with your thumb, then press the trigger with your finger to shoot it. With double-action, pressing the trigger will pull the hammer back for you, as well as shoot the gun... but it is harder to press the trigger with your finger, and the trigger will need to move farther before the gun will shoot. Regular double-action revolvers let you choose between using it single-action or double-action. Double-action only revolvers will only allow you to use it in double-action mode. This is significant because it is much easier to be accurate with a revolver by using it in single-action mode. It is harder to be accurate using it in double-action mode, because of the longer harder trigger pull. However, in a self-defense situation, you will probably only have time to use it in double-action mode. So, when you try out a revolver, make sure that is how you practice with it, and see if you can shoot it accurately.

Semi-automatic handguns can also be very simple to operate, but are not as "fool-proof" as a revolver. Generally they can hold more bullets, and can be fired more quickly with greater accuracy. They can be very reliable, but with semi-autos brand and model becomes more important, because poorly-made ones are not reliable at all. They can also be complicated to take apart, clean, and put back together. Once again this depends on the gun, though. Some are very simple. For your purposes, I would probably recommend either a Glock 19 in 9mm, or a Springfield XD Compact also in 9mm. However, those are both pretty expensive guns.

Which brings us to price-range, which is another important consideration that may determine what you can get. I would definitely recommend going with a good used firearm, if you can find one.


Without saying, I will of course be spending time at a firing range for practice, and a gun safety course. I have a slight fear of guns because I have not learned how to use one safely yet.

The Cardinal Rules of Firearms Safety:
1. All guns are always loaded.
2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger and outside the trigger guard until your sights are on the target and you have made the decision to shoot.
4. Be sure of your target and beyond.

Max
06-20-2009, 08:25 PM
@ sgtdraino- Awesome information! I'm feeling better and better about my visit the gun store.

You guys rock.

Ole WV Coot
06-20-2009, 10:26 PM
Max,
I am an NRA certified handgun instructor. That being said, I've seen exactly what you are talking about, and not just by the sales people in the gunshops, but also by their boyfriends or husbands who really want a gun they like.
1: Is this gun going to be your baby (what I mean is will it be your gun only?)
2: Have you thought about a revolver?
Although the safety record on semiautos is much better than it was in the past, a double action revolver is in essence inert until you pick it up and pull the trigger. I doesn't rely on magazines (to hold the ammo, it doesn't take a lot of muscle to rack the slide). If you are unfamiliar with firearms, this is the safest option (the gun is stress and idiot proof). As to caliber, I would suggest a .357 magnum, why, because you can shoot .38 special rounds in it (which is cheaper and less punishing on you) and you still have the option of shooting .357 mag ammo. Double action revolvers are avilable in very compact sizes to monsters and in the .357 mag chambering they are available in 5, 6, 7, and 8 round capacities.
If you have any specific questions feel free to ask.

The man gave excellent advice without a lot of BS you don't need. I only noticed one thing that wasn't pointed out. A semi-auto, which you mentioned "bothering your wrist" no matter what caliber could possibly cause you to "limp wrist" when firing causing the pistol to jam. I also taught and know you have lots of questions. The language you will pick up, just remember revolver first then I am positive SARKY can give you all the answers you need. You don't need to be baffled with "brilliance", when I taught it was one day safety before we started handling live ammo. Like the man said, I had everyone "get to know" their firearm first and everyone and I mean everyone shot a 38cal revolver with me looking over their shoulder, always safety first.

brush beater
06-21-2009, 03:25 PM
Max,
I am a police firearm instructor with my department and you should consider everything that has been posted, there is a lot of good information and no BS.

I wanted to bring this up for informational purposes though. Being new to firearms is both an advantage and a disadvantage. The advantage is that you may not have the " I am a firearms god" mentality and that means you don't have any bad habits deeply seated into your brain. This means that if you get good training from the start you will not have to unlearn all of the bad later on.
The disadvantage may be that it will take you a bit longer to learn how to make the weapon an extension of yourself (i.e. pointing your own finger).
You should also think about the adrenaline factor of having to use the weapon in real life.
The more adrenaline in your system means less finite motor skills (small hand or finger dexterity) that will be available to you.

At the initial stage of firearms manipulation you should pick a weapon that does not have all of the high speed bells and whistles (decockers and safeteys) that some of the high end.
I recommend a Glock or a good revolver because a revolver has no safety (besides your own brain) and a Glock has 3 safety mechanisms that do not require any more manipulation than putting your finger on the trigger. To use either one you need only to put the sights on target and press the trigger and to put it back in the holster all you have to do is put it back into the holster and it is "safe" and ready to go again when called.

When buying a pistol us this simple exercise to see if you are comfortable with a specific weapon.

1. pick up the weapon with both hands, strong hand on the weapon and the other hand around the other
2. alingn the sights in a comfortable stance
3. lower the weapon and close your eyes.
4. raise the weapon and when you think the weapon is back to your eye level and on target...open your eyes.
The less you had to re-adjust to reaim the weapon the more comfortable you are with its design and natural alignment in your hand.

One more thing as far as bullet caliber I think at least a 9mm or .38 should be sufficient.
Most people think that a .45 is the cure all for taking down a man with one shot because it is a bigger round.
Consider this: .40 cal is only a shortened 10mm casing and a .45 is only about 11mm
So there is only about 1-2 millimeters of lead seperating a 9mm from a .45 cal.
I think that ammo type and shot placement trump the size of the projectile.
Magazine capacity is also a factor a 9mm can hold as many as 15 shots and most .45s pack about 8-10. Less magazine changes equal more time with you and your weapon in the fight.

brush beater
06-21-2009, 03:30 PM
I forgot to give you a good reference.
Suarez International is a great site and it has a monthly e-mail news letter that is packed with good information and training opportunities.

crashdive123
06-21-2009, 03:31 PM
Good information Brush Beater. When you get a chance head on over to the Introduction section and tell us a bit about yourself. Thanks. http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=14

Sourdough
06-21-2009, 03:31 PM
b.b. I think I am going to enjoy having you around, and welcome to the party.

Max
06-21-2009, 04:01 PM
Thanks again, guys. Some solid information that I could have most likely figured out eventually, but as brush_beater pointed out, it's important to start off with good habits.

Oddly enough, I've been searching in my area for dependable firing ranges, stores, and instructors, and I'm coming up with a bunch of zero. Who would have thought that anywhere in Texas, of all places, would be low on any of the above?

If anyone's got a bead on some quality resources in East Texas, toss them my way. If I can't find anything, I'll be making a trip to either Houston or Austin, I suppose.

You guys will make a prepared and informed person out of me yet!

SARKY
06-22-2009, 12:03 AM
Try contacting the NRA, they can more than likely hook you up with a certified instructor in your area.

Lorna
06-24-2009, 09:53 PM
Max, if your anywhere near Dallas, there's a great firing range off of Mockingbird and 35.

rebel
06-25-2009, 12:12 PM
An air marshall fires more than 30 000 rounds a month !!!

I don't suppose your Zero key stuck? That'd be hard to do. You probably would have nubs for fingers from the reloading.

crashdive123
06-25-2009, 12:16 PM
When I was teaching shipboard anti-terrorist tactics my teams and I would put 2,000 to 5,000 rounds down range every month that we were not at sea.

rebel
06-25-2009, 12:20 PM
I was at the FAM school. It was a little over 1000 per week and that took some time. You have to allow for class time, PT, eat and sleep.

Pal334
06-25-2009, 12:31 PM
Far be it from me to interject facts, perhaps the following can give you a better idea on the reality.

GAO report number GAO-04-242entitled 'Aviation Security: Federal Air Marshal Service http://www.gao.gov/htext/d04242.html
the Service's documentation confirmed that instruction in advanced
marksmanship is a critical part of this training, even though passing
this element is no longer a condition of employment.


http://www.thegunzone.com/fam-lawman/fam-qual.html

Ken
06-25-2009, 12:41 PM
Far be it from me to interject facts, perhaps the following can give you a better idea on the reality.

Leave us alone. :winkiss: Facts are always confusing and only take away from the discussion. Incorporating facts into a post is a change we can't accept, with all of our misoneism and all. And who cares about reality? It's only perception that counts, isn't it? :blushing:

Pal334
06-25-2009, 12:49 PM
Leave us alone. :winkiss: Facts are always confusing and only take away from the discussion. Who cares about reality? It's only perception that counts, isn't it? :blushing:

Aah so true, wandering through the wild flowers enjoying the sunshine with our heads stuck up ,,,, oops, better not continue that thought, is a family show after all:sneaky2::innocent:

Ken
06-25-2009, 12:52 PM
Nice. More coffee to clean off of my screen. Thanks. :clap:

Ken
06-25-2009, 12:58 PM
Did you know:

All nutrients required to sustain human life can be acquired by licking the backs of 15,000 postage stamps daily.

Playing Led Zeppelin's "When the Levee Breaks" at over 75 dB is illegal in the Tennessee valley.

If you nurse a puppy on human milk, they are more likely to say "I Ruv You" like Astro. Downside is, you get hairy nipples.

Since the increased popularity and long term use of the birth control pill in the last two decades, estrogen has leaked into the public drinking supply, causing the feminization of frogs and other amphibians. Public health officials have predicted that in 150 years, all born males will become transvestite by the age 20. Although it is hard to predict the social implications, sociologists believe this will decrease the amount of war and create more open ideals of sexuality.

An air marshall fires more than 30 000 rounds a month!!!

All facts. All true. Honest. :innocent:

Pal334
06-25-2009, 01:07 PM
Did you know:

All nutrients required to sustain human life can be acquired by licking the backs of 15,000 postage stamps daily.

Playing Led Zeppelin's "When the Levee Breaks" at over 75 dB is illegal in the Tennessee valley.

If you nurse a puppy on human milk, they are more likely to say "I Ruv You" like Astro. Downside is, you get hairy nipples.

Since the increased popularity and long term use of the birth control pill in the last two decades, estrogen has leaked into the public drinking supply, causing the feminization of frogs and other amphibians. Public health officials have predicted that in 150 years, all born males will become transvestite by the age 20. Although it is hard to predict the social implications, sociologists believe this will decrease the amount of war and create more open ideals of sexuality.

All facts. All true. Honest. :innocent:

"the feminization of frogs" may have already occurred based on the way some nations are acting. All of the rest I am leaving on the table, way too many lines there

Ken
06-25-2009, 01:10 PM
Gee, Pal, we did a simul-post. I added one last fact to my list that your quote didn't catch. Sorry....... :blushing:

Pal334
06-25-2009, 01:26 PM
:confused1:My misoneism precludes me from accepting those changes or facts :smartass:

Ken
06-25-2009, 01:30 PM
:confused1:My misoneism precludes me from accepting those changes or facts :smartass:

http://www.mchenrycountyblog.com/uploaded_images/T-Shirt-Sorry-Mind-Closed-Until-Futher-Notice-724789.jpg

Max
06-26-2009, 03:58 AM
@ Remy- You ask some good questions. Do I want to kill someone? Absolutely not. Do I want someone to kill me? Again, absolutely not. Will I kill someone to defend myself? If there is no other way, yes. The way I figure, being a woman, I have absolutely no chance in a physical fight, unless that person is another woman, or a small, out of shape man. I won't go gunning for someone, but I have to assume that anyone entering my home or apartment intends to do me harm, and it's likely they're also armed. Big no-no where I'm from. Luckily, my state protects my right to defend myself under these circumstances.

After the suggestions on here, I think that I will in fact start off with a shotgun, because you're right: noise recognition for that will be a big deterrent (hopefully), and the need for accuracy in the heat of the moment is not as great.

That being said, I also want to become proficient in smaller firearms eventually. Not every situation in my life is going to need a shotgun. As far as mastering, I agree, it takes practice, but even my first time at the firing range, only three of my shots where outside of the target outline, but they were all still on the paper. I was able to also cluster most of the shots. There were a few strays, but I've always had good hand-eye coordination. It's the comfort and familiarity I want to work on.

I'm taking everything you guys are saying to heart, and trying to gain knowledge. I feel it can only be to my benefit, as well as those around me. It's people that don't know sh*t that cause problems for those that do. I don't like being that kind of person.

crashdive123
06-26-2009, 05:03 AM
Good for you Max. I applaud the way in which you are going about this process. A shotgun is an incredible tool for home defense. Make sure that before you purchase one that you fire one. There is a big differnce in firing a shotgun versus firing a smaller handgun. Also, keep in mind there are different sizes (guage) of shotguns just as there are different calibers of handguns and rifles.

Rick
06-26-2009, 07:19 AM
You might consider a .410 gauge for the recoil but your choice of ammunition will be somewhat limited. A 12 gauge will offer you the greatest range of ammo but some can kick like a mule.

You can miss with a shot gun at close range just like a handgun. You would be surprised how well shot holds together in a short distance so it's much like shooting a bullet. Six or eight inch patterns are pretty common at 10 yards. Generally, the shorter the barrel the wider the pattern. And a short barrel is easy to maneuver with inside the house.

If you do get a shotgun then take it to the range just like a handgun. Indoor ranges will usually limit you to slugs because the shot can bounce back. At least the ones I go to limit you.

crashdive123
06-26-2009, 08:01 AM
Another option for you Max (don't you love trying to digest rapid fire info) is the revolver of your choice loaded with a frangible round like Glaser Safety Slugs. You get a couple of advantages with them. The shot inside will expand to give a bit more coverage, and it is unlikely that they will penetrate a wall - possibly injuring an unitended target. They are more expensive, but it is not a round that you will be practicing with. Try them on a target at 10 feet so you know what they will do, but practice with a normal round loaded into your revolver. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glaser_Safety_Slug

Max
06-26-2009, 03:58 PM
Another option for you Max (don't you love trying to digest rapid fire info) is the revolver of your choice loaded with a frangible round like Glaser Safety Slugs. You get a couple of advantages with them. The shot inside will expand to give a bit more coverage, and it is unlikely that they will penetrate a wall - possibly injuring an unitended target. They are more expensive, but it is not a round that you will be practicing with. Try them on a target at 10 feet so you know what they will do, but practice with a normal round loaded into your revolver. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glaser_Safety_Slug

Now that's something to consider, too. I'm in a major city this weekend, and have access to quite a few good gun stores and ranges, and someone with me that understands this sort of thing, so I'll definitely checkout this option as well.

Rick
06-26-2009, 06:21 PM
As compared to a 20 gauge, I agree. Still, I wouldn't want to get shot with one.

Actually, I was concerned more with recoil for her.

rebel
06-27-2009, 11:17 PM
Remy,

If you want to believe 30,000 rounds per man a month then that works for me.

However, lets do the math correctly. 30,000 divided by 20 days ( Uncle Sam gives off Saturday and Sunday during training if possible) = 1500 rounds per day. In your 4 hours of range time you have to reload, change targets, change distances, allow for an hourly potty break , the instruction, malfunctions and at the end police the brass. At most you would have 3 hours of range time. So, 1500 divided by 3 = 500 rounds per hour. Why 3 hours and not the eight hours you suggested. Well, it's not done that way. So, you can see how it would not happen. Right? Your day consists of: 4 hours range , 2 hours simulation, 2 hours hand -to-hand training , 2 hours class and 1 hour lunch. They're long days and that's the way it's done. No U.S. government agency will train 30,000 rounds per man / per month. I guess if you can't hit your target after 4,000 rounds of training per month, the other 26,000 will not help.

Mountain Man
06-28-2009, 11:06 AM
For home defense I would go 12ga 870 or 20ga youth 870 if the 12ga is too much. Keep in mind it might not even be the recoil it could be the reach for her. However, in a home defense situation I highly doubt she'd be shouldering and aiming down the barrel too, so keep that in mind.

My wife can handle the 870 12ga with 3" 00 and she's 5' and 100lbs dripping wet so it can be done. For clay shooting were gonna eventually get her the 20ga youth, much easier to shoulder and reach for her that way.

Mountain Man
06-28-2009, 11:08 AM
Remy,

If you want to believe 30,000 rounds per man a month then that works for me.

However, lets do the math correctly. 30,000 divided by 20 days ( Uncle Sam gives off Saturday and Sunday during training if possible) = 1500 rounds per day. In your 4 hours of range time you have to reload, change targets, change distances, allow for an hourly potty break , the instruction, malfunctions and at the end police the brass. At most you would have 3 hours of range time. So, 1500 divided by 3 = 500 rounds per hour. Why 3 hours and not the eight hours you suggested. Well, it's not done that way. So, you can see how it would not happen. Right? Your day consists of: 4 hours range , 2 hours simulation, 2 hours hand -to-hand training , 2 hours class and 1 hour lunch. They're long days and that's the way it's done. No U.S. government agency will train 30,000 rounds per man / per month. I guess if you can't hit your target after 4,000 rounds of training per month, the other 26,000 will not help.

30,000rnds a month training would be reason enough to join said agency :clap: Every 2 or 3 months they assign you a new pistol or new components or what? Sounds interesting ;)

chiye tanka
06-29-2009, 12:36 AM
Max, do not get a shotgun with a pistol grip only.
With a full stock on the weapon, it is less likely to be taken from you, and in turn, used on you.

Aurelius95
06-29-2009, 08:55 PM
Great info, guys. I don't usually pay much attention to this category, as I don't know much about firearms. However, I decided to look for information on what type of hand gun I'd like to buy one day. Definitely a good starting place for me.

Old GI
09-24-2009, 05:40 PM
[QUOTE=Max;128823]Isn't a magazine something used for fully automatic weapons, a la Rambo-style, while a clip is what's used in a semi-automatic handgun? Or am I totally wrong about the terminology? I guess I can just take the girly route and call it "those bullet thingies." That'll make everyone happy they let the girl come out and play.


Unlikely you will ever encounter clips, so just learn to call them all magazines, or thingies.

Magazines: a four sided box, with a bottom, a spring, and a cartridge follower, used to hold cartridges.

Clip: a three sided metal spring enclosure, enclosing the back and both sides of the cartridge, it it used for rapid loading of "Blind" Box magazines, generally older military type rifles.


Hey, watch that older military rifle stuff. First time I qualified was with an M-1 and that used a clip.

glockcop
09-24-2009, 07:42 PM
Since you are fresh to guns you should start off with some professional training and use a full framed, 4 inch barreled revolver in .357. You should practice alot with .38 special loads and then move up to .357 mag. for defense. Stainless steel is also the way to go until you get very farmiliar with the care of a handgun. If I were limited to just one handgun it would be a 4 inch stainless steel .357 mag revolver. It does everything any newer designed wiz bang auto pistol does except that it doesn't carry concealed quit as easily. Even that may be overcome with good holsters and belts. Believe it or not you will be just as well armed with this set up any anybody else out there. This is the most versitile combination you can get in a handgun. You can take anything from mice to moose with a properly loaded .357 mag. You may not want to even look for another handgun once you realize the great companion you have found in a .357 mag revolver. Besides they are a little cheaper than the vast majority of auto's out there so the initial cost for the weapon and rounds will be cheaper. My handle may say GLOCKCOP but my heart and mind know that there is nothing better than a good old reliable .357 mag. revolver for life's little problems. It can do it all and then some! Hope this helps. Best.

Rick
09-24-2009, 07:46 PM
You're kidding, right? You're going to sick a 4 inch .357 on a lady? I don't even like shooting a .357. The recoil is awful on the darn things. Yeah, they stop stuff. They stop me from going to the range and shooting them. That's what they stop.

glockcop
09-24-2009, 08:10 PM
You're kidding, right? You're going to sick a 4 inch .357 on a lady? I don't even like shooting a .357. The recoil is awful on the darn things. Yeah, they stop stuff. They stop me from going to the range and shooting them. That's what they stop.

NO I am not kidding. That is sound advise that is irrelavent to gender. You have heard of the .38 special haven't you? It's recoil is negligable and very accurate. The hand grip on a revolver can be fit to any hand with aftermarket grips. I have instructed more Police recruits than I can count over the years and that is the best advise to be had. Ask any other instructor about my advise and I promise you , you're gonna have 9 out of 10 agree. The 10th will be too stuck up on auto's. If a 4'' .357 mag is too much for YOU that is not to say that it is too much for this lady. I am sure she can handle the .38's better than mostly anything else out there that is a "real" defensive round (.380's and 32's don't count IMO). There is also a spectrum of weights and velocities that can be used to tune in to your recoil threshold. I am sorry the .357 is too much for YOUR hands but that will come in time with practice. That is the only way to cure the flich. Truth be told the .357 is very loud and that is what causes most of the flinch. The recoil is managable for nearly anyone with practice. Cowboy up man, it ain't that bad. You probably need better hand grips if your magnum hurts you. Remember you can always stick with the .38 specials in it. Name a more versatile handgun and I'll wistle Dixie :).Best.

Rick
09-24-2009, 10:16 PM
I'm in your corner on the .380 and 32s and I don't mind the .38 through the .357 at all. I have a Ruger SP101 SS in .357 and it's just a lot of bark. It doesn't take much to be too much.

I used to cowboy up all the time but got tired of the saddle sores. I just side saddle it anymore and look for a step ladder to get up and down.

glockcop
09-24-2009, 11:21 PM
I'm in your corner on the .380 and 32s and I don't mind the .38 through the .357 at all. I have a Ruger SP101 SS in .357 and it's just a lot of bark. It doesn't take much to be too much.

I used to cowboy up all the time but got tired of the saddle sores. I just side saddle it anymore and look for a step ladder to get up and down.

Hey, I hear ya. I was just ridding your a$$ a little bit. You really should try some rubber Hogue or Pachmayer grips on the old wheelie. They are worth their weight in gold. They will make that .357 feel much closer to a hot .38. What model full framed .357 do you have? I may have a pair laying around here that I could spare. It's worth a try to take a great hogleg out of semi-retirement. It really is true though that a .357's bark is what causes most of it's bite especially in a full framed gun. That sp101 is gonna bark a bit more than a larger framed weapon. That's physics for Ya. Can't get around it. Try the Remington "Medium Velocity" .357 mag with a 125 grain Golden Sabre bullet. They are actually pleasant to shoot. Try not to concentrate on the noise as much and you'll notice that full house .357 mag ammo miraculously recoils alot less :). Humans were not designed to have a small explosion go off two feet from our face and not react. You have to reprogram your brain for it. Besides a .38 can get the job done any day, all day long if you do your part. It is a classic cartriage in it's own right that works just about as well as anything else. Nothing wrong with sticking with it instead for sure. Stay safe, Brother.