What if "WE" are ALL 100% WRONG in our preperations...????

[Sourdough]

There is something that haunts me about this entire "Survivalist" Mentality.

Problem: Encouraging people to buy stuff so as to be prepared is good, but not even 10% good enough.

Solutions: Don't eat anything for 3 days, nothing. Or, choose a three day weekend and throw the main Electric breaker on the house, and deal with no electric, the kids also have to deal with it, no going to Bobby's house for the weekend. Or any of the many practice drills we can come up with. Practice being uncomfortable, and maybe even miserable.

Kind of like an apprenticeship training, the Forum leaders would need to encourage it, and even practice it. I am saying we need to shift the mindset from, buy this stuff, and you will be prepared. Shift to a two step mindset, the second being to practice, to run drills.

Your not a carpenter just because you buy tools, you serve a 4 year apprenticeship, and then you have skills & tools. You don't give someone a plotter, flight plan, and weather forecast, and say now you have all the tools you need to be a Commercial Airline Pilot.

Going car camping one or twice per year is just that, a well thought out, same as everyday life just not in your home, but you have thought of every possable thing you might need so as to not be miserable. Well that ain't "Survival", that's luxury camping.

This is a leadership issue, if the leaders are not willing to shift mindset, it will not happen. We are negligent in our collective duty, if we seduce people into false security.

"What practice Drill did you run this month, this year, EVER".......????

I would like to see this thread debated passionately, and not politely swept under the carpet. Chris & Super moderator's it needs to start with you, and other forum leaders. I am requesting a true Paradigm shift.

[bulrush]

First, most of the general population would not do a practice run. They would be embarrassed by it. They would be AFRAID of what others would think of them. That leave the rest of us, here on the forum.

I think my son, age 13, might think it is fun to cook on an alcohol cooker on the front porch. But having no TV or video games, well he's done that too when he gets in trouble. The more trouble he gets in, the more books and magazines he reads. His discipline (no TV or anything with a screen) means we also spend more quality time together, going to the park, playing card games, etc.

In a nutshell, I think a practice run is a good idea. Sometimes I do have nights where I turn off all lights, no tv, and just use a candle and try to read, or play solitaire by myself. A deck of cards and a book of card games, goes a long way. Uno is also fun, as is Skipbo. Funky name, fun game.

[M-J de M.]

Good proposals, Hopeak. Will cogitate and act on them.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

My recent move from my in town residence to my outta town residence was a start to an excercise in changing my families overall lifestyle. As for TV I decided we should go without TV or at least the expensive cable bill. We began by staying weekends at the new home with no electric or water. This was a learning experience. I found that I had more than enough camping equipment to easily go without. One rude awakening though was a small brushfire, Thank God for the 2 - 5 gallon pails of water I had to flush the toilet. We are now completely moved and still no cable. My 5 yr. old misses it some but it was truly junk she was watching and I am finding much more quality in the situation than before as for me and the wife we don't miss the boob tube one bit! We now spend evenings outdoors and do some things that are very much practice for the big what if. Good Post Hopeak!

[Rick]

I absolutely agree that plans need to be tested. Otherwise, it's only theory. We need to understand just how well prepared we are...or are not. I don't think anyone would disagree with you. The rub comes in as to how far you want to go to test it.

I don't think you have to set your house on fire to test your evacuation plan. However, you can certainly walk through the drill, even assume some exits are blocked in the exercise. You will never duplicate the adrenalin surge you will experience in a true fire but you will know what to do, where to meet, how to ensure everyone is out and what everyone's responsibilities are. You don't have to purchase anything, either.

I do disagree that everyone encourages people to buy stuff. It is certainly helpful to have some commercial items but you can make many of the things we discuss or simply substitute. I do think we encourage folks to buy quality if they are going to buy anything and we do have a lot of discussion on which items represent quality.

In the end, I think it's up to you and your family situation and, perhaps, location as to how far you take a test. If you want to go 3 days with no food, that's one thing but you certainly couldn't, wouldn't, shouldn't ask you 4 year old child to do so. That would be endangering their health. If you want to turn the power off (and you safely know how to do so) for the week-end, then have at it. I agree that you will learn more than just walking through an exercise that spans a couple of hours.

The same is true if you want to evacuate and test your BOB. If you recall, I suggested just a few days ago that one of the members evacuate to a hotel and live out of their BOB. In that case, small children were involved so I wouldn't have suggested anything too dramatic. You could just as easily evacuate to the wilderness and test your supplies for a week-end, a week or however long you want.

In the end it has to remain a personal choice. There are just too many variables in individuals to assign a one size fits all. Children, disabilities, finances, location and I'm sure many other variables make testing the scope and depth of your plans a limited proposition for many.

I would be tickled to death if everyone had ANY written plans, any items in their BOB, and even tested them.

[M-J de M.]

Way to go, Cowboy Survival! Kids will adapt to not having tv even more quickly than adults, I reckon.

We cut the cable many moons ago, and don't miss it. I can see all the news videos I need on the internet, if I'm so inclined, and we have a collection of classic movies when we want to watch something. No commercials, no plugs for idiot shows--it's great!

[Ole WV Coot]

Lots of us got to "practice" for several days, some up to a week or more this past winter. My place is all electric and "someone" made the mistake of thinking it would be only a few hours at the most so I didn't bother with the generator. Lasted a little longer and enough ice to limit my travel from the house to the woodpile. We made it fine, didn't speak to each other much after the first day but opening the doors on the Buck insert, placing the screen in and candles, stove & stored food plus reading kept us warm. I had trouble sleeping after the dog food ran out and my attack beagle was looking at me funny, otherwise we could have gone a lot longer without any real problems except I need to add more dog food.

[Rick]

Coot - I wouldn't worry too much. But if you go through something like that again and the Beretta shows up suddenly, you might want to cut the attack beagle an equal share of the food reserves. Just sayin'.

[crashdive123]

Actually I agree with a lot of your post Hopeak. The reliance on the latest gizmo may be useful, but without practice is pretty much useless. The ability to make it through a tough spot without the latest gizmo is even better. So practice? You bet. The crew of a submarine did not get as proficient as they were by sitting around and talking about it. A typical day involved six hours of various drills and an hour or two of training. Where I disagree with your post is that this needs to start with the forum leaderes. Chris has provided the venue for all of us to do exactly what you describe. The mods just heard cats more or less and keep away the evil doers. We are participants in the forum just as you are. The fact that there is the title of moderator beneath my avatar should carry no extra weight in a discussion about issues. I know that some see it that way, but they shouldn't. I can't hold a candle to your experience as a big game hunter and bush pilot when those topics are discussed. While I have lived in colder climates and have hiked and camped in them it does not compare to your experience of remote living in Alaska. The forum will follow the direction of the members. I start threads that I feel may be of interest to others as I assume others do as well. By starting this thread you bring important points to the discussion. I don't think that the mods can "dictate" the direction of discussions (note the earlier comment about hearding cats).

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

Way to go, Cowboy Survival! Kids will adapt to not having tv even more quickly than adults, I reckon.

We cut the cable many moons ago, and don't miss it. I can see all the news videos I need on the internet, if I'm so inclined, and we have a collection of classic movies when we want to watch something. No commercials, no plugs for idiot shows--it's great! Getting rid of cable tv is the best thing for control-freaks like us, who refuse to let our minds be polluted.

One of these days, the power-grids and internet may go too, but 'til then, I will learn what I can from it.

Thanks M-J,

I think she is benefitting greatly from my decision. Dad found crawfish in the irrigation ditch, she now has an adult male and female for pets in an aquarium. It looked like we saw them breeding yesterday maybe she'll have little ones soon. Point being we do alot more similar to the above instead of TV. The horses out back and crawfish tank are much more relaxing to watch than the crap on TV.

[DOGMAN]

I get myself into situations that most people would find uncomfortable at least once a week- sometimes even more. then while i'm walking upteen miles home and cussing myself, the snowmbile, four-wheeler, dog-team, etc...

i start thinking...i wish i was better prepared.

being uncomfortable is a state of mind. I am uncomfortable at the Mall, or at a party. Alone with no electricity at my house or out in the woods is far from uncomfortable to me

[Ken]

In the end, I think it's up to you and your family situation and, perhaps, location as to how far you take a test. ........I would be tickled to death if everyone had ANY written plans, any items in their BOB, and even tested them.

Hopeak, this kinda' sums it up for me. In the last couple of years, I've rarely gotten the time to take a vacation - maybe one or two weekends away each year - that's it. Our schedules - mine, the Sweeties and the kids and the extended family and the friends - just don't lend themselves to this type of a test. Rarely an hour goes by between 6:00 am and midnight without a crisis call from a client. I like to answer those calls, because those people put food on my table.

For the next several months, I'll be booked solid with my law practice and with relocating/reassembling/rebuilding all of my survival preparations at my new home. Generators, fuel storage, storage pantry, firearms room and safe, commercial two-radio radio system with a "suitcase" repeater, - the list goes on and on. Yep, everything will be tested and re-tested and tested again from time to time. I've had so much experience and practice using the things I'd need to "bug-in" (my first option given my new location - which was carefully selected based on a number of factors) that I'm satisfied everything will work reasonably well if need be. During my transition from one place to another, well there will be a few loose ends for a short while.

I've got the written plans, tons of tools, sufficient equipment (multi-redundant) that I know how to use, and long-term supplies. We have fully stocked BOBs, 2 bug-out vehicles, and communications plans for family - including a self supporting medium-range (75 mile) redundant radio system for all relatives and friends in the area, that will only fail if the sun goes haywire or we get hit with EMP. If need be, I can repair the most likely problems that may arise with my radios and stay in business for at least two years.

My sons, brother's (only one lives close by) and close friends - "the team" - can keep everything going just fine if something happens to me. All of our plans include taking care of each other if necessary.

Unfortunately, my lifestyle is such that I simply can't take the time, nor expect everyone else to take the time, out of already hectic schedules to test the entire scenario. It just isn't practical for us. However, given that being prepared is ingrained in our regular lifestyle, I have a high degree of confidence that things will work out as well as possible - considering the ever present Mr. Murphy - should the need arise.

I chuckled when I read the other posts about living without television. The only TV I believe I've watched this year was that Alaska Survival episode that aired two weeks ago. Now, you don't want me to give up the internet, do ya'? :sneaky2:

[rat31465]

It would be impossible to test a real life scenario without going through a real life scenario.
How are you going to test mass panic buying where stores are running out of food, batteries, Lamp Oil etc...?
The Big Ice Storm of 2007 here in SW Missouri taught me a thing or two about what one can expect when natural disasters happen.
Fortunantly my wife and I faired quite well since we were better prepared than most in our neighborhood. I had three gallons of lamp oil stock piled, Kerosene, batteries, 30 gallons of drinking water and enough food to last the two of us for a month. And it was a good thing that I did. Wal-Mart and every other buisness around ran out of batteries within the first day after the storm...no lamp oil, flashlights or lamps/lanterns were on the shelfs. You couldn't find lamp mantels, kerosene lamp wicks or even candles of a decent size and don't even think about trying to fill a propane tank. The camping department looked like a small hurricane had hit it.
We went without electricity for 17 days and only in the last 4 of these did I end up borrowing a generator from a friend.
Boredom became one of our worst problems so we busied ourselfs playing cards and back gammon and watching the news and only a few select programs on our emergency television powered by two deep cycle gel batteries that I have.
We heated the house using the gas cook stove and I circulated the heat from the one room with two small 12V fans from an old computer that I had kept for parts.
Our biggest challenge was keeping the food in the ice chest from spoiling. We packed everything carefully in the chest and covered it with layers of ice and newspaper.
Ice was another commodity that became hard to obtain.(Kind of ironic that we couldn't get ice in the middle of an ice storm huh?)
We kept shallow pans and bowls full of water out on the back deck constantly so they would freeze through the night to make ice by morning.
If nothing else...this experience was an eye opener to make sure and stock those items which invaribly will fly off the shelf first.

[DOGMAN]

Our biggest challenge was keeping the food in the ice chest from spoiling. We packed everything carefully in the chest and covered it with layers of ice and newspaper.
Ice was another commodity that became hard to obtain.(Kind of ironic that we couldn't get ice in the middle of an ice storm huh?)
We kept shallow pans and bowls full of water out on the back deck constantly so they would freeze through the night to make ice by morning.

just curious....if it was that cold, why did you need ice? Why not just put the ice chest outside and let nature keep the stuff cold. I have two big chest freezers that I leave outside in the winter, filled with meat and there not even plugged in.

[rat31465]

just curious....if it was that cold, why did you need ice? Why not just put the ice chest outside and let nature keep the stuff cold. I have two big chest freezers that I leave outside in the winter, filled with meat and there not even plugged in.

We tried but it didn't keep things frozen soild for long term.
We did have one ice chest outside that we kept milk, eggs and lunch meat in and other things that needed to be kept cold but not frozen.

A stray dog actually got into our food storage one night and left us with a big mess.

[Ken]

But not the kinda' stray dog you think it was.....

[Rick]

(making note. Stop by Jason's late at night for snack).

EDIT: Ooops. erasing Rat's address from book.

[Ken]

(making note. Stop by Jason's late at night for snack).

See? What did I just say?

[Sourdough]

Actually I agree with a lot of your post Hopeak. The reliance on the latest gizmo may be useful, but without practice is pretty much useless. The ability to make it through a tough spot without the latest gizmo is even better. So practice? You bet. The crew of a submarine did not get as proficient as they were by sitting around and talking about it. A typical day involved six hours of various drills and an hour or two of training. Where I disagree with your post is that this needs to start with the forum leaderes. Chris has provided the venue for all of us to do exactly what you describe. The mods just heard cats more or less and keep away the evil doers. We are participants in the forum just as you are. The fact that there is the title of moderator beneath my avatar should carry no extra weight in a discussion about issues. I know that some see it that way, but they shouldn't. I can't hold a candle to your experience as a big game hunter and bush pilot when those topics are discussed. While I have lived in colder climates and have hiked and camped in them it does not compare to your experience of remote living in Alaska. The forum will follow the direction of the members. I start threads that I feel may be of interest to others as I assume others do as well. By starting this thread you bring important points to the discussion. I don't think that the mods can "dictate" the direction of discussions (note the earlier comment about hearding cats).

OK, that's fair. We need to lead by example. We need to "DO IT" and talk about it, the good, the bad, and the ugly, of it. No one wants to be Cold, Wet, Miserable, Hungry, Fatigued, Sore, Inconvenience. We want the safe, easy, Dry, secure, plentiful, good life.

We do not all have to be Wareagles, and practice 30 days survival drills in the wilderness with just the clothes on our back. But, we need to do more, or at least support and encourage others to do more. The "DOING'NESS" needs to be an equal part of the conversation.

Not just for the survival community. But all Americans, all humans everywhere.

[Sourdough]

A stray dog actually got into our food storage one night and left us with a big mess.

See....that is what I am talking about.....right there. Some things have to be learned from a experience. Change the variables and that little inconvenience could have resulted in death, or misery.

[Rick]

I guess I would also add that testing "a" plan needs to start with the SHTF scenario you find most likely to occur and/or impact your family. Again, this may be geographically based but weather related events must certainly be at the top of the list along with things like house fires and home accidents. For fires and in home accidents, prevention is always the key. Start with the basics like smoke and CO detectors and weather radios.

Here are some facts from the National Safety Council:


80 percent of all fire deaths occur in the home (U.S. Fire Administration)
The leading cause of fire deaths is careless smoking (U.S. Fire Administration)
Having a working smoke detector more than doubles one’s chances of surviving a fire (U.S. Fire Administration)
3,675 people died in fires in the United States in 2005 – one person every 143 minutes. While the number of fires increased in 2005 over 2004, the number of deaths decreased 5.8 percent. (National Fire Protection Association).
In 2005, 106 firefighters died in the line of duty in the United States – down from 117 in 2004 (U.S. Fire Administration)
Adults 65 and older are more than twice as likely to die in fires as the overall population. (U.S. Fire Administration study)
People born in 2003 have a 1-in-1,100 lifetime odds of dying due to exposure to smoke, fire or flame. Odds in any given year are 1:86,000. (National Safety Council)

The NSC has a great site. You might want to take some time and read through it.

http://www.nsc.org/resources/factsheets/hl/home_fire_prevention.aspx

[DOGMAN]

We tried but it didn't keep things frozen soild for long term.
We did have one ice chest outside that we kept milk, eggs and lunch meat in and other things that needed to be kept cold but not frozen.

A stray dog actually got into our food storage one night and left us with a big mess.

gotcha, must have been getting well above freezing during the day. In my experience a freezer full of solidly frozen one pound blocks of meat don't need ice on them unless the outside temperature gets above 40 or so for a full day.
About the dog getting into your ice chest...tie a rope or a NRS strap around it to keep is sealed and keep the critters out

[Rick]

See....that is what I am talking about.....right there. Some things have to be learned from a experience. Change the variables and that little inconvenience could have resulted in death, or misery.

Won't that be true no matter how realistically we test our plan? If he were to do that today, he wouldn't sit the cooler outside because it is summer time. As Ken said, the ever present Murphy is going to toss us a bone no matter how well we plan, no matter how well we test and no matter how well we execute.

You've obviously given this some thought so what would be your "rule of thumb" for testing?

[DOGMAN]

See....that is what I am talking about.....right there. Some things have to be learned from a experience. Change the variables and that little inconvenience could have resulted in death, or misery.

In the rafting biz, the phrase is "rig to flip" so everything is tied down, and strapped shut. its customary to use straps to wrap around the cooler and keep it closed even when the cooler is flipped upside down.

Using two straps also makes it fairly critter proof and even somewhat bearproof if you have a YETI cooler. So, anytime I store food outside, its common practice to strap it shut as well.

[mountain mama]

Going car camping one or twice per year is just that, a well thought out, same as everyday life just not in your home, but you have thought of every possable thing you might need so as to not be miserable. Well that ain't "Survival", that's luxury camping.
All I can say is....you've never seen me camp.

But seriously, during the summers I take the youngun's out primative camping several times to practice our skills. And when we aren't camping, we are still practicing. The hubby likes to keep the A/C on 85 degrees in the summer to cut back on electricity costs (he's at work at a nice 70 degrees, so what does he care) so the rest of us enjoy getting out.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

thats right hopeak, in survival your going to be wet, your going to be sticky, your going to get blisters on your feet, your going to be too tired to move. and if that pack is stuffed to the brim with all of your gagetry,then you get the shoulder cramps.

so condition your self to be comfortable with being uncomfortable.

[DOGMAN]

.
so condition your self to be comfortable with being uncomfortable.

thats what I am talking about....

uncomfortable is a state of mind

[Rick]

But why do I want to do that? Isn't the point in life to be uncomfortable with being uncomfortable? We have electricity and air conditioning and central heat and running water and packaged food because folks were tired of being uncomfortable and sought out a better, easier way to live.

I don't mind practicing my plan to ensure I have the right gear but I'll wait until I HAVE to be uncomfortable to be uncomfortable. If it never happens, I'm that much ahead of the game.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

there are some of the problem areas that i was thinking about like having to make neumerous stream crossings, eroded or irregular landscapes,swarms of biteing insects,extreem exposure to sun or cold,or to be caught out in a 3 day freezing rain,thorny vines and other forbidding plants. there are hundreds of obsticles out there to camp and stay put you can have a lot of comfort, but traveling puts those obsticles right out there.

[DOGMAN]

But why do I want to do that? Isn't the point in life to be uncomfortable with being uncomfortable? We have electricity and air conditioning and central heat and running water and packaged food because folks were tired of being uncomfortable and sought out a better, easier way to live.

I don't mind practicing my plan to ensure I have the right gear but I'll wait until I HAVE to be uncomfortable to be uncomfortable. If it never happens, I'm that much ahead of the game.


speak for yourself...i don't have air conditoning or central heat. LOL...

[Rick]

Sure you do. It's just off season. Open the doors in the winter and it's cool all through the house!!

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

so i like to carry my kudjlik

1538

[Sourdough]

Won't that be true no matter how realistically we test our plan? If he were to do that today, he wouldn't sit the cooler outside because it is summer time. As Ken said, the ever present Murphy is going to toss us a bone no matter how well we plan, no matter how well we test and no matter how well we execute.

You've obviously given this some thought so what would be your "rule of thumb" for testing?

Sorry, I don't have one. When a person is safe and secure, large parts of them shut down. Like Jason just said, "Rig to Flip"......There is a different level of awareness if one is outside of their comfort zone. I am advocating that people spend more time outside their comfort zone. I think there are people who have never been in the wilderness, never pooped on anything but a flush toilet, never done a hard days (18 hours) manual labor. I think people are so "CLUELESS" that they can't even guess how hard a survival experience would be. Look at the clueless survival shows on TV. Even the producer has no clue what survival is.

Think of all the training that goes into making a good military team, practice, practice, practice......and still many will freeze, panic, perform wrongly in their first real engagement.

Hell, take away the the whole Survival part of it. No survival just hard life with lots of work, labor type work, not making spreadsheets work. Most people could not do it. On Guided Hunts, with the best equipment, and the guide doing 100% of the work 100%, the client does nothing. His meals are cooked for him, the cat-hole is dug for him, the animals are skinned for him, and still, many ask to go home early, and forfeit the $14,000 they spent for 14 days of hunting,, why mostly because of the weather, and the stress of the new environment..

People could not do what Wareagle did for even one day and one night, let alone 30 days or forever and ever, and ever.

[Sourdough]

But why do I want to do that? Isn't the point in life to be uncomfortable with being uncomfortable? We have electricity and air conditioning and central heat and running water and packaged food because folks were tired of being uncomfortable and sought out a better, easier way to live.

I don't mind practicing my plan to ensure I have the right gear but I'll wait until I HAVE to be uncomfortable to be uncomfortable. If it never happens, I'm that much ahead of the game.


That's a JOKE Right.........????? If not you just nailed it goooooder than I did.

[Rick]

Actually, no. No joke. I've worked outside, climbing poles and digging holes when it was over 100F and -20 below (that was the temp, not the wind chill). I've spent weeks away from my family getting to see them on week-ends. Sometimes. Left the dozer running because it was too danged cold to start it if it stopped. Put a torch to the hydraulic tank to get the bucket to work because the hydraulic fluid was too cold and too thick. I'm done with all that. I'm glad I did it but I don't want to ever do it again. It's no worse than others have done and a lot less than some have had to go through. At least no one was shooting at me. But I know what hard work is. I'm only fit for light duty these days. My shocks leak, my overloads have been bounced on once too often. My engine mounts are loose. My muffle doesn't and my headlights need headlights. Thanks, but it's time for me to be uncomfortable with being uncomfortable from here on out.

[Ken]

I've got one last bottle of water left from that fountain of youth before it dried up. Make me an offer. :innocent:

[Rick]

Oh, Lord no. I don't ever want to go backwards. I'm with Patton on that one. Never pay for the same ground twice!

[Sourdough]

But why do I want to do that? Isn't the point in life to be uncomfortable with being uncomfortable? We have electricity and air conditioning and central heat and running water and packaged food because folks were tired of being uncomfortable and sought out a better, easier way to live.

I don't mind practicing my plan to ensure I have the right gear but I'll wait until I HAVE to be uncomfortable to be uncomfortable. If it never happens, I'm that much ahead of the game.

I don't think that the point of life is to be comfortable......I think the point of life is to be alive. Vibrantly alive, to live 100% every day, to not hold back, to live fully and completely every hour, so that when death comes, one knows in his heart, that he as extracted all the of the joy, sorrow, aliveness he was allotted, that he is fully used up, burned out, and the next BIG adventure is death.

However I do believe 98.8 % of Americans believe as you do. So I feel that I have got a complete answer to my question. People are too busy with other life commitments & projects, and/or want life to be easy, comfortable, secure, predictable, dry, 70 degrees, wind at their back.......sounds pretty good.....but someone needs to see where this other "Less traveled" road goes. Rick, I truly thank you for your honest answer, Thank you.....:)

[Rick]

I wish some others would chime in. This is a good thread and a good subject. It deserves to have some fresh ideas injected.

[Ken]

Here's what I believe:

Unless I'm at ground zero, driving over the manhole cover as it explodes, or the first to get sneezed on by that guy who just got off the plane with Ebola virus, I'm far better prepared than most are to survive.

A disaster is a small meteor causing damage to a town. A catastrophy is when it lands on your house. What do we always say about luck?

However, if I haven't gone down at the very beginning of a SHTF scenario, I believe that I'm more prepared than 98.8% (Hopeak's statistic) of everyone else (except trained military folks) to survive whatever comes along. That's because 98.8% of the people out there have never given it a thought to begin with.

Most members here are far better equipped than the general population in terms of survival skills and thinking in general. I think that's even true, albeit to a far lesser degree, of most of the numptys and paperback experts who pay us a visit here from time to time. At least they've given it some thought.

[Pal334]

I have never been an advocate of the "full dress rehearsal". I agree that practice makes perfect, however I like practicing the individual tasks to a level of competence . I have seen too many times where a group that has gone the "full dress rehearsal" route inadvertently assumes that the rehearsal would be the flow when stuff happens. And that causes indecision at awkward times. When we concentrated on task training it seemed easier to remember and apply skills. Now of course I am writing this from an urban perspective and from military experience.. If I was living in a country/wilderness setting, I am sure my approach would be different since opportunities for practice can or could be almost a daily occurance and virtually a way of life. Just my opinion

[Schleprok]

We practice bugging in, not on a regular basis, just whenever the hurricane strikes. Last time was Ivan. No power for a week. No ice available (had ice stored in the deep freeze). Day 3 saw National Guard giving one bag of ice, one case of water, one case of MREs if you had the time and gas to wait in line. Gas rationing in the 70s had shorter lines. 12vdc fan and window screens helped. Coal oil lamp to read by. Spare batteries for the teenagers walkman, game thingy, etc.
One of the biggest problems noted was lack of light in a windowless bathroom. Now I have updated to solar walklights outside. Easily removed and placed in the bathroom during power outages. Recharge during the day. Hopefully we won't drill again this year, but are prepared if necessary.

[crashdive123]

Here’s my thoughts on it. Who defines a fulfilling life? As the saying goes – beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so does it go to define ones own success. Hope – I admire the life you live. I don’t envy it, but admire the fact that you are doing the things that are fulfilling to you. The things that you want to accomplish while still here. By the same token, I admire the life that Rick is living. Again, it is his life therefore his to define. I often reflect on the things I’ve done. I’ve made decisions, or turns in my life that led me to where I am today. At the times of those decisions I thought many were good. I also thought that many were bad. Regardless, they are the choices that I made that define me today. The 20+ years I spent in the military were not arduous by many standards, yet the vast majority of personnel in the Navy were not qualified or capable of doing it. The profession that I have chosen today is certainly not what I consider difficult. I take great pleasure in what I do both professionally and personally. The activities that I participate in give me a balance in my life. Be it hiking in the woods, sailing on an open ocean, helping a customer with a difficult situation, volunteering at one of the local homeless shelters, serving on various committees or boards. I am where I am because of the choices I made. I have no regrets on those choices. Helping an elderly neighbor gives me as much pleasure as a long stroll in the forest. As far as doing and practicing or “boots in the field” as you talked about in your first post….I couldn’t agree with you more. Doing a job well takes patience and practice. Not sure if this is the sort of thing you are looking for, but my thoughts anyway.

[Ken]

One other point. When I was in charge of the local EMA and worked for the state EMA, I ran several "exercises" - table top rehearsals, dress rehearsals, and full blown field rehearsals. Trained "outsiders" would constantly notify us of a spectrum of developing "incidents" that we had to respond to during the course of the exercise.

I also directed responses to the real thing on numerous occassions.

That type of experience tends to make a permanent impression on you. The skills become second nature - an instinctive response, if you will. When you only have to worry about yourself, your family, and a few close friends, it's a lot easier than taking care of an entire community.

[crashdive123]

That attitude regarding training that was instilled into me early in my career was You had better train the way you are going to fight, because you will most assuredly fight the way you train. It's kind of the way I view training and practice still.

[Sourdough]

I wish some others would chime in. This is a good thread and a good subject. It deserves to have some fresh ideas injected.

Hope I am not whipping a tried horse. But why can't people take an ice cold shower one day a week. Or eat nothing for 36 hours. or don't use bug dope one day. go without coffee or booze for a week. Anything to experience some level of hardship and discomfort. Or live with no door on the outhouse.:clap:

[crashdive123]

Hope I am not whipping a tried horse. But why can't people take an ice cold shower one day a week. Or eat nothing for 36 hours. or don't use bug dope one day. go without coffee or booze for a week. Anything to experience some level of hardship and discomfort. Or live with no door on the outhouse.:clap:

For me - because I have and know that I'll be just fine. I don't feel that it is something that I need to practice. Does leaving the bathroom door open count?

[Ken]

Hope I am not whipping a tried horse.http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-violent083.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org) (Smiley added by Ken) But why can't people take an ice cold shower one day a week. Or eat nothing for 36 hours. or don't use bug dope one day. go without coffee or booze for a week. Anything to experience some level of hardship and discomfort. Or live with no door on the outhouse.:clap:

[ X ] Cold Shower - during the summer :blushing:
[ X ] No Food 36 Hours
[ X ] No Bug Dope
[ X ] No Booze for a Week
[... ] No Coffee for a Week
[... ] No Outhouse Door
http://www.smileyshut.com/smileys/new/Disgusting/toilet-6.gif (http://www.smileyshut.com)(No outhouse at all)

[DOGMAN]

Life isn't a spectator sport, to me, this exercise is not about comfort/discomfort, its about self-denial and self-examination. We all know we can go a few days without food, and survive a cold shower or a night in the woods without shelter. We know this, because we may have done it previously or we've read about or watched people on television, that we view as weaker and dumber, do it. So, we say- "I've done it before, so I can do it again" or, we say "If that guy can do it, I can do it"

And, you are probably right- You can do it. You can get through it, you can survive.

But, what if you never have to. What if you just die in your sleep an old man, and never tested yourself, other than that one time back in college or while in the Army. Are the last 40 years of your life going to be spent, passively watching the television and reminescing about the first 40...or are you going to be active and create more stories.

The path of self-denial is an insighful path. Not only does it show you your strengths, and show you what you can do....more importantly it makes you confront your weaknesses and shows you want you cant do.

Plus its spiritual....it makes you feel alive! Its like skinning a knee, or having your first love break your heart. It makes you feel, it makes you think, it makes you live!

[Rick]

@ Jason - For you. That's your definition. But I think Crash's explanation is just as valid. We learn from each other's experiences and we can only do that when each of us have different experiences. The gal that spends her life as an ER doctor or the guy that spends his life volunteering to Boy Scouts both find their experience rewarding or they wouldn't do it.


But, what if you never have to. What if you just die in your sleep an old man, and never tested yourself, other than that one time back in college or while in the Army. Are the last 40 years of your life going to be spent, passively watching the television and reminescing about the first 40...or are you going to be active and create more stories.

If I die an old man in my sleep, I'll consider myself extremely lucky. It could have been a car wreck at 30 or 20 or 17. And I won't be reminiscing about the previous 40 years. I seldom look backward. My vision is forward looking. My point is we don't all share the same vision or quest for self test. I don't need to put myself on the line to feel alive. I can quietly sit and watch my grandkids or birds or fish or putter in the garden and feel pretty good about my life. It's the little things that add value for me. Anyone can step out of an airplane but I'll NEVER understand why they do it.

That doesn't make your opinion or view any less valid, however.

[rat31465]

gotcha, must have been getting well above freezing during the day. In my experience a freezer full of solidly frozen one pound blocks of meat don't need ice on them unless the outside temperature gets above 40 or so for a full day.
About the dog getting into your ice chest...tie a rope or a NRS strap around it to keep is sealed and keep the critters out

Actually the temp stayed in the high 20's throughout the days and as for the ice chest...thats exactly what we did after the fact of course. What is strange is that our back yard was surrounded by a six foot privacy fence on two sides and a chain link fence on the other. I saw the dog who broke into our provisions leap the chain link fence like it was nothing.

[Sourdough]

I saw the dog who broke into our provisions leap the chain link fence like it was nothing.

Moose jump a 6' fence, with ease, and from a standing start. It is something to watch a 1/2 ton of moose gracefully leap so high.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

you have a good point hopeak.

a couple days without my comfort foods and my gadgetry takes away some of the confidence that those things give.
without an alturnative,or replacement survival gets tough.
most of my equipment is just "luxury"items that provide comfort.(i mean the mosquito nets,tents,mre's,multi-tools)

primative survival techniques.(its provided for me by nature) is how i train myself.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

i have friends that wear noeprene divers suits in the winter under thier clothes so even swimming in ice water they should be ok.
is that intelligent necessity?or comfort food overkill? you tell me!

[Ken]

i have friends that wear noeprene divers suits in the winter under thier clothes so even swimming in ice water they should be ok.
is that intelligent necessity?or comfort food overkill? you tell me!

I've had a bit of experience swimming in icy water. Never thought of a dry suit as overkill. It prevents things like, uhhh, cardiac arrest. I suspect that NOT wearing one would have killed me.

[Sourdough]

I have never been an advocate of the "full dress rehearsal". I agree that practice makes perfect, however I like practicing the individual tasks to a level of competence . I have seen too many times where a group that has gone the "full dress rehearsal" route inadvertently assumes that the rehearsal would be the flow when stuff happens. And that causes indecision at awkward times. When we concentrated on task training it seemed easier to remember and apply skills. Now of course I am writing this from an urban perspective and from military experience.. If I was living in a country/wilderness setting, I am sure my approach would be different since opportunities for practice can or could be almost a daily occurance and virtually a way of life. Just my opinion

I am not advocating people do "full dress rehearsals". I am advocating, first buy some survival stuff, and also study and learn. And, that one important segment of the learning/study/practice is regular experience of being miserable (Cold, wet, exhausted, and under pressure). I understand Ricks point, I just disagree with it.

[Pal334]

I am not advocating people do "full dress rehearsals". I am advocating, first buy some survival stuff, and also study and learn. And, that one important segment of the learning/study/practice is regular experience of being miserable (Cold, wet, exhausted, and under pressure). I understand Ricks point, I just disagree with it.

Aaah,, one of the nice parts of our society, we can agree to disagree :) And if we are honest, walk away from the disagreement learning something inspite of our best efforts.

[Sourdough]

i have friends that wear noeprene divers suits in the winter under thier clothes so even swimming in ice water they should be ok.
is that intelligent necessity?or comfort food overkill? you tell me!

I think your missing my point see post # 56. Your lifestyle is part of what I am saying is necessary. People don't need to do it everyday. But that part of being prepared is knowing you can get through the event. That part of the practice is to practice being miserable, and uncomfortable.

[Ken]

I am not advocating people do "full dress rehearsals". I am advocating, first buy some survival stuff, and also study and learn. And, that one important segment of the learning/study/practice is regular experience of being miserable (Cold, wet, exhausted, and under pressure). I understand Ricks point, I just disagree with it.

I had a one-day trial on Monday. It was pouring out and I had to park 3 blocks from the courthouse. I didn't bring a raincoat (they tend to disappear once you take them off in court) and I never use those sissy umbrellas. The outcome of the trial, though short, would have caused my client, a military guy, to be separated from the service had we lost. So I was "Cold", "Wet", "Under Pressure", and "kinda tired" . Do 3½ out of 4 count? :)

[Sourdough]

I had a one-day trial on Monday. It was pouring out and I had to park 3 blocks from the courthouse. I didn't bring a raincoat (they tend to disappear once you take them off in court) and I never use those sissy umbrellas. The outcome of the trial, though short, would have caused my client, a military guy, to be separated from the service had we lost. So I was "Cold", "Wet", "Under Pressure", and "kinda tired" . Do 3½ out of 4 count? :)

Well, thats kind of the idea, would have been better if the the trial lasted 16 continuous hours, and was held outdoors, at 33 degrees, driving rain, and 55 MPH wind, no food, no drink, and for full effect you could slam your fingers in the door. But, you got the general idea.

[Ken]

Well, thats kind of the idea, would have been better if the the trial lasted 16 continuous hours, and was held outdoors, at 33 degrees, driving rain, and 55 MPH wind, no food, no drink, and for full effect you could slam your fingers in the door. But, you got the general idea.

Hopeak, thanks! I am laughing my a$$ off!

[Ken]

Well, thats kind of the idea, would have been better if the the trial lasted 16 continuous hours, and was held outdoors, at 33 degrees, driving rain, and 55 MPH wind, no food, no drink, and for full effect you could slam your fingers in the door. But, you got the general idea.

Hopeak, I'm gonna' copy this thread, ESPECIALLY YOUR LAST POST, and share it with some of my lawyer and judge friends. It's fun to watch those guys p*ss themselves. :clap:

[Sourdough]

There is a movie called: "My dinner with Andre", and a large part of the movie deals with this subject. Andre Gregory, builds this logic case for how an electric blanket, deprives one of the experience of being alive, he talks for 15 minutes about this, and then the other person Wallace Shawn Say's, "But I like my electric blanket, it keeps me warm, I don't want to be cold and miserable, there is enough hardship in my life".

[Rick]

@ Hopeak - I get your point, too, and I don't disagree with it. It's a very valid point. Just not for me.:)

@ Pal - Arguing is for sissies. Gentlemen should be able to cordially disagree, respecting each other's opinion. (Then go raid the loser's root cellar when he leaves :whistling:)

[Pal334]

@ Hopeak - I get your point, too, and I don't disagree with it. It's a very valid point. Just not for me.:)

@ Pal - Arguing is for sissies. Gentlemen should be able to cordially disagree, respecting each other's opinion. (Then go raid the loser's root cellar when he leaves :whistling:)

Agreed, but forgive me if I totaly reject any idea of raiding Hopes cellar (and I am not inferring winning or losing). I have decided from reading his posts, he would most certainly take such an incursion very personally and would not react in a very pleasant manner.

[Rick]

Oh, sure. Leave us hanging. Now how are we supposed to be fulfilled? And whose throne are we striving for?

[DOGMAN]

That was very good reading Remy, its why Siddhartha left the aesthetics. I fully understand what your saying.

But, although sef-denial may not lead to self-realization or enlightenment, it can still show you parts of yourself your were unaware of. And, for me awareness, is integral to intentional living.

[DOGMAN]

I agree it is hard to be objective when you are looking at yourself.
But, thats what this thread is all about- doing things that are hard-
self-examination ain't easy work

[DOGMAN]

Parts of yourself...yes...but what parts ?


well, when I am examining myself, there is usually a flurry of activity around one certain part.

But, in regards to my previous post, and the kind of activity that Hopeak is talking about, it can make you realize your weaknesses. Normally, we are all aware of our weakness, they linger in the back of our mind and eat away at us as insecurities, and we don't want to admit to them, because we are not sure of the truth. Thats why I say TEST THE SYSTEM. Eliminate any doubt, find the weakness, then work on it. Intentional living

[DOGMAN]

That is what the occupant of the throne wants you to believe yes.
And so we think that "hard work" is a must.
It is not.

I agree, if you go back and read my initial posts in this thread, I say, "being uncomfortable is a state of mind". Hard work is a relative phrase. following the words of Robert Frost, if you align your avocation and occupation you'll never work a day in your life...

But yield who will to their separation,
My object in living is to unite
My avocation and my vocation
As my two eyes make one in sight.
Only where love and need are one,
And the work is play for mortal stakes,
Is the deed ever really done
For Heaven and the future's sakes.

But, once again I will state self-examination is an integral part of intentional living.

[Sourdough]

Very hard to be objective, when the witness is already a part of this "self".

The "Witness" is not part of the "self", the witness is not "PART" of any thing. The witness is. The witness just is.
As in what is, is. And what is not is, is also is.

Black only exist in relativeness to not black, therefore black is black, but black is also not black. As is can not exist absent of that which is not it's self.

[DOGMAN]

Essentially, the type of activity we are talking about leads to really knowing yourself.

Pushing your own limits, mentally and physically is a voyage of self-discovery. The results of that voyage are to me ineffable, and so I can't eloquently argue this any further. Its just to hard to explain, and according to you nothing would be gained by the activity....just mental masterbation

[DOGMAN]

What i called mental masturbation is the misuse of the body to work out tensions pertaining to our mental realm.

I reread your post, and see what your saying, in regards to misuse of the body to workout mental tensions.

However, testing yourself physically to better understand yourself physically, in my eyes is a rewarding experiece, and quite often leads to identifying situations in the mental realm that one may want to further examine as well.

[Ken]

Thank you, Remy, for yet another amusing bit of psychobabble!.

Sadly, your posts above were merely a thinly masked restatement of Darwin. Nothing really original there. But still, I'm proud of you - you really were able to control yourself. You also wanted to restate Freud when you began talking about Maria’s genitals, didn’t you? Refraining from doing so must have killed you.

Well, I believe that we all understand that the human body has evolved and that we have instinctive survival skills. Correct? Like “fight or flight” – that funny reaction we have when we start pumping out adrenalin?

Of course, you once again seized upon a post, this time it was Hopeak’s, to practice your psychoanalytic “talents.” That’s why you’re here, right?

Well, I’m sorry, but I’m no psychologist. (Are you?) However, I don’t see Hopeak’s thread nor the questions he raised as “intellectual masturbation.” IMHO, you have the market cornered on that type of activity.

No, it wasn’t about Hopeak. It was a legitimate question. Allow me to rephrase it:

“Do the members here believe that it would be a good idea to test their equipment, skills, and stamina under conditions which would be more realistic than those encountered while posting on the Forum?”

There. Is THAT “intellectual masturbation”?

Of course, none of your posts would be complete without raising the question of someone’s “insecurities.” Here’s my take on the subject: Again, IMHO, I believe that there is nobody here who would have fewer emotional “insecurities” in a survival situation than Hopeak. You, however, would probably have to call your therapist before you grabbed your BOB and headed out the door.

To quote you, Remy, "I hope this was passionate enough."

[DOGMAN]

Again, I still see what your saying, back to Siddhartha. But, I am not talking about achieving "oneness" through hardship- because we are already one...that is the easy part. All we have to do is wake-up and look around to know that- its a given.

I am talking about exploring beyond the dialogue and finding the primal- not mentally knowing it is possible to be one, but feeling the connection.

Before words...there was something.
Before words there were rhythms , the inner sounds of your lungs inhailing and exhaling in a polyrhythm with your heart beat. The same rhythms that elk, wolves and all the other animals feel, the same rhythms that many of us haven't heard in a long, long time.

Physical exhertion can allow us easy access to those rhythms, physical hardships, tests of endurance and such can crack open this inner ampitheatre so we can once again here the music of the universe that was there all along.

But, these exercises can do more than that- they can make us realize that surviving isn't enough. Surviving is what we are doing as we play trite mental games in our comfortable chairs at our cozy keyboards, quoting poets, eastern-religion and other nonsensical psycho-babble. Thriving is what we are doing when we are out-there dancing to the beat.

Your right there is more to Hopeak. He is Peter Pan, the pied piper and a Wilderness Sage all rolled up into the personage of a gun-toting, sourdough curmedgeon, and basically this thread was a veiled attempt at getting people to get off their butts, off the computer and into the woods in the name of survival preparedness.

And, on that note, I am logging off. The Gallatin River and several miles of big water continuous Class IV are calling my name. Its staying light until 9:30 now, and an after work kayak session is just what Dr Hope ordered!

[Ken]

...and i acknowledge the fact that you take great interest in what i write...even though you read poorly.

Actually, my reading comprehension is quite good. It's an occupational necessity. But please understand - it's not that I read poorly, it's that you write poorly.

[Ken]

lolll...a little regression there maybe ?
Well...it's not that i write poorly, it's that your daddy was blind. And your mommy is so fat, that she is really fat.


Ok...i am going for a walk now.
Silly you later Ken.

This is exactly the type of intelligent response I'd expect from you, Remy.

[crashdive123]

OK now. Hopeak has probably not gotten all the information that he wanted yet. In an effort to prevent him from asking the question again in another thread after this one gets closed ----- let's just scale it back a notch or two. Thanks.

[Sarge47]

Here are some funny quotes from Einstein...

"A person starts to live when he can live outside himself."
"Weakness of attitude becomes weakness of character."
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
"People love chopping wood. In this activity one immediately sees results."

Great quotes, here are some more:

"I want to know God's thoughts; the rest are details."

"God is subtle but he is not malicious."

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."

"God does not care about our mathematical difficulties. He integrates empirically."

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

"My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind."


I find this all interesting.:cool2:

[Sarge47]

lolll...a little regression there maybe ?
Well...it's not that i write poorly, it's that your daddy was blind. And your mommy is so fat, that she is really fat.


Ok...i am going for a walk now.
Silly you later Ken.
Are we going to do "Yo Mama!" cracks now? Can I play? :innocent:

[oldsoldier]

There is something that haunts me about this entire "Survivalist" Mentality.

Problem: Encouraging people to buy stuff so as to be prepared is good, but not even 10% good enough.

Solutions: Don't eat anything for 3 days, nothing. Or, choose a three day weekend and throw the main Electric breaker on the house, and deal with no electric, the kids also have to deal with it, no going to Bobby's house for the weekend. Or any of the many practice drills we can come up with. Practice being uncomfortable, and maybe even miserable.

hopeak....it's fine to have "all the conviences of home" in your survival gear. unfortioatlly( sorry about spelling) it doesn't do a bit of good it you can't use it. Would you buy a new $ 100,000 superduper, macdaddy,tractor and not learn how to start it or put it in gear? i doubt it but some people do that with survival gear. How amny have fancy "new gear" still in the box/package?

[oldsoldier]

OOPS!!!! Hit the wrong key ( continue rant now) i know a couple of guys that spent several thousand dollars after the winter ice storm on 'survival gear" in case of another one.( BTW we had no power for 10 days got a good change to practice winter skills then) Anyway their "gear" is still boxed gen set not assembled or test ran, high dollar camp stoves, heaters, etc. not even looked at to see if all the parts are there. not to mention even reading ops manuals. I've offered to help them set up or/and test the gear but they say they don't want to open the gear until they need it! OOOKKAAAYYY!!! i test run my gensets monthly. Stoves etc at least quarterly.

[Sarge47]

Nice religious quotes by the way.
Glad you liked 'em, amazing what's on Google isn't it.:cool2:

[Sarge47]

Can't you tell it was a ridiculous "yo mama" joke ? ("your mommy is so fat, that she is really fat" !?!?!?)

Can't you see it was in response to Ken's regression "it's not that I read poorly, it's that you write poorly." !?!?!?

What's wrong with you.(rhetorical) One thing is for sure, if it is not Ken...it's you. The predictability is astonishing.
Why do you assume I was talking to you?:cool2:

[Rick]

(Head slap) Throws computer monitor across the room!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[oldsoldier]

Rick.... yeah i agree what say we just go grab a beer?

[wareagle69]

i think we all like our comfort, why is it we prepare? we store food and supplies so that our lives are not interupted to much in tough times. as far as bush comfort.....i have many times trained hard to lower my idea of comfort spending nights on the side of the trail, no fire,food or shelter, just sleep a bit where i lay,wether it be spring summer fall or winter, i am not fond of going 3 days w/o food, which is why i study wild edibles so prolifically. i have found that if it is cold ,wet damp snowy, and you are tired from fatigue of exertsion and lack of sleep and hunger hits it is far more diffucult to accomplish you tasks and your emotions can get the best of you , which can be very dangerous, so i put myself into those positions so when for real i encounter these opportunities, i can step back for a minute and breahte and tell myself,"been here before old son, you are the pro act like it and get er done" then i know what sand i am made of and that it won't kill me only make me stronger, this is how i choose to live and train, it is not for everyone, most here will never even try, and nothing wrong with that, i am just cut from a different mold as is hopeak and jason montana and eugene and some others, some are harder than me some are softer, i am what i am, but if you don't live it, you won't survive it.
good thread pops

[Ken]

Rick.... yeah i agree what say we just go grab a beer?

Make mine a Heineken. Ice cold. Tall frosted mug. And maybe a side of Nachos. And some pot-stickers. And some oysters, little necks, and peel 'n eat shrimp. And maybe some calamari with hot pepper rings, and maybe.......

[Ken]

Wareagle, a serious question: Have you ever gone out on a particularly miserable foray and asked yourself, "Why the Hell am I doing this?"

I have. And my surroundings were probably 50 degres warmer than yours generally are.

[wareagle69]

sure, asked myself that when i joined the army same as when i got married same as when i sleep in the mosquito infested swamp with the moose, but the answer is always the same, cuz i like to want to and the end result is knowing i can mentally and physically make it thru, and i am sure i will be pshyco analyzed for my desire to do this, but i am not your typical person i thrive on adversity what most compalin about i draw strenght from, did this answer what you were looking for counsel?

[Ken]

Yep! Thanks, that answered my question. I'm chuckling. Folks thought I was nuts for doing the things I've done. Now I'm gonna' have to tell them about you. :innocent:

[Pal334]

In fact, we are talking about stress.
More accurately one needs self confidence (obviously this does work as a stress reducer). A state of mind that in this type of scenario is derived from life experiences , including but not limited to practicing tasks, when ever possible scenarios (even in practice they would go off script). When a person is as comfortable as possible with the various tasks, they in general will react more confidently when the SHTF

[Pal334]

Or...when a person has changed his state of mind, they will react more confidently, more coherently, more appropriately...to anything.

True confidence on a mental level allows one to engage in social intercourse, discussions, and other interactions without allowing the interaction to wander, be judgemental or digress to an inappropriate level. On the physical level , tasks are simplier and are more easily "chained"to complete necessary tasks.

[Ken]

True confidence allows interactions to wander...... Digression a means.

I was gonna' go out for a pizza later. But I'm gettin' mighty hungry now. Maybe I'll toss a frozen pizza in the oven. Spread some onions, sardines, and anchovies on top. That's a great combination. Anyone here ever try one of them?

[Sourdough]

Or...when a person has changed his state of mind, they will react more confidently, more coherently, more appropriately...to anything.
If you want to talk about working at doing...about exposure to what makes you uncomfortable...then all aspects of life must be submitted.



Perhaps even one's own experience of death.......See signature below...

[Pal334]

To the contrary...anything is allowed !
Lack of confidence is what will lead to lack of tolerance...rules appear, boundaries, limits, ideas, opinions...aren't we talking about pushing those ?

True confidence allows interactions to wander, to take other forms, to digress to any level necessary, and to understand that being judgmental is an inherent part of the functioning of our information gathering and treating minds, without letting this mind govern our intentions.

"Inappropriate" becomes an idea.
Judgment a tool.
Digression a means.
Wandering a must.
Allowing a corner stone.

Being judgemental is a human characteristic under all circumstances. When a person is confident, they need not be judgemental in an aggressive manner, doing so leads to the stiffling of others thoughts and quests for information. Being judgmental in an aggressive way is a display of Arrogance in its grossest form. As a life long team member, leader and facilitator I have always seen that those who are judgmental in a non aggressive manner and confident in thier own abilities make the best team members

[oldsoldier]

Ken are you psychic?? Took a break to see whats up here. I've got the smoker going now putting on a couple dozen oysters shortly, and have got 4 medium lobsters and potatoes ready to join some corn on the cob in about an hour. wife's getting the shrimp scampi ready for grill side burner..... come on over the amberbock's on ice.

[Ken]

Ken are you psychic?? Took a break to see whats up here. I've got the smoker going now putting on a couple dozen oysters shortly, and have got 4 medium lobsters and potatoes ready to join some corn on the cob in about an hour. wife's getting the shrimp scampi ready for grill side burner..... come on over the amberbock's on ice.

*opening up a new tab to check flight schedules out of PVD*

Hold a couple of them oysters from the smoker. I do mine raw with lemon juice, coctail sauce, horseradish, and TABASCO! Them lobsters? Real ones, right? Not them sissy ones without claws. The kind from New England that come with claws? The real ones, right?

[oldsoldier]

Do you mean there are other kinds of lobsters????? where have I been. oh!!! that's what the other 2 dozen oysters are for them and a ouple of fresh lemons

[Ken]

As a life long team member, leader and facilitator I have always seen that those who are judgmental in a non aggressive manner and confident in thier own abilities make the best team members

:clap: And the best team leaders as well.

In fact, people who are "judgmental in an aggressive way" often distract the team and hamper its mission. They usually contribute nothing more than discord, and rarely offer anything of value to the team. They're better off going it alone - for everyone's benefit.

[Ken]

Do you mean there are other kinds of lobsters????? where have I been. oh!!! that's what the other 2 dozen oysters are for them and a ouple of fresh lemons

If you ever bake stuff 'em, I've got a recipe for you. Can't post it now, though. Gotta' be signing off soon.

[Ken]

Do you mean there are other kinds of lobsters????? where have I been. oh!!! that's what the other 2 dozen oysters are for them and a ouple of fresh lemons

If you ever bake stuff 'em, let me know. I've got a recipe for you. Can't post it now, though. Gotta' sign off soon.

[oldsoldier]

Sounds great I'll trade ya an awsome crockpot chicken soup recipe for your when ya have time

[Pal334]

:clap: And the best team leaders as well.

In fact, people who are "judgmental in an aggressive way" often distract the team and hamper its mission. They usually contribute nothing more than discord, and rarely offer anything of value to the team. They're better off going it alone - for everyone's benefit.

So true, being ostracized for lack of social skills negates any possible wisdom that you may be able to contribute. And sharing information is what life should be about, at least on the basic level.

[Sarge47]

For a good movie on this very topic check out the movie "Defiance". It just came out this last week on DVD. All about a large group pf Russian Jews trying to survive in the forests of Nazi-occupied Russia during WW II. True story; great movie! :thumbup:

[Ken]

So true, being ostracized for lack of social skills negates any possible wisdom that you may be able to contribute. And sharing information is what life should be about, at least on the basic level.

Unless, of course, that lack of social skills includes flicking boogers or spitting at other team members.

Then again, wouldn't that be the type of thing that someone who is "judgmental in an aggressive way" would do? Either literally or figuratively?

[wareagle69]

For a good movie on this very topic check out the movie "Defiance". It just came out this last week on DVD. All about a ;arge group pf Russian Jews trying to survive in the forests of Nazi-occupied Russia during WW II. True story; great movie! :thumbup:

ray mears did an episode on this a few years back, that is what got me interested in this movie

[Pal334]

Unless, of course, that lack of social skills includes flicking boogers or spitting at other team members.

Then again, wouldn't that be the type of thing that someone who is "judgmental in an aggressive way" would do? Either literally or figuratively?

Would not at all be suprised, since they are typically unreliable and seretive

[Pal334]

Technicolor and dolby surround sound ?
Ah...Man and his fantasies...
His mystification...

I try to avoid fantasy,, Reality is much more exciting. Any attempts at mystification always seem to ring hollow.

[Pal334]

lolll

Try harder.

No need, derived from bumps, bruises and scars, not from reading others thougts :)

[Ken]

http://www.ogmog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/riddler45cover1.jpg

[Pal334]

Yeah cause, from the day i was born, i was put in a room and left there with just books.

Again...fantasy and mystification.

No inference intended, just saying :)