Stove questions, please

[springkitty]

Hello, I just joined today looking for a simple method to make some sort of very safe stove and so far I have just gotten very confused, LOL! The one thing I know I dont want is an alcohol stove to explode on me.
I have read about putting some pet. jelly in a ziplock bag with a few cotton balls, squeeze it all together and use the cotton balls for starting a fire and its supposed to burn.
My question is this: can I safely put several cotton balls in a can, say a Vienna sausage can and have enough heat for hot water for instant coffee? Or something fast to eat?
If I can do this, where would I poke air holes in the can?
Thank you, kitty

[crashdive123]

Hey Springkitty. You can do as you describe, but the length of burn you will get from cotton balls soaked in alcohol is probably fairly short in duration. A better option might be to rub some petroleum jelly into cotton balls. You can store them in a plastic film canister. The burn time will be a bit longer, but still not very efficient. You can also just put an ounce or so of alcohol in that Vienna sausage can and burn it that way. Again, not the most efficent way, but it will work. The soda can alcohol stoves are relatively easy to make and much more efficient. Have you thought about an Esbit stove, or are you just looking to make a stove?

When you get a chance, stop on by the Introduction section and tell us a bit about yourself. Thanks. http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=14

[springkitty]

Hi and thank you for answering. Right now I am looking for the best yet fastest way to make a stove. I am going to be without electric for the next month and will not be in an area where I can make a simple outside fire to cook on or heat water/canned stews and so on.
kitty

[crashdive123]

Here are a few homemade options plus the Esbit I mentioned, but if you are going to be cooking on it for a month or so, they may not be good options for you. A regular camping stove might be a better option. Are you going to be stationary or moving around?

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Emergency%20Gear/Emergencypreparednesssupplies006.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Emergency%20Gear/Emergencypreparednesssupplies008.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Emergency%20Gear/Emergencypreparednesssupplies007.jpg

[springkitty]

I will be stationary. The large coffee can looks good, is it wood only or can I use something that wont smoke a lot? My new "neighbors" wouldnt like much smoke, lol! Also its in town and on a busy street. I will just be in a small home trying to start life over without making any waves. I just tried to post an introduction and explanation on the "Introduction Board" but cant find my post there.
Thank you for your answers, I really do need some help, lol!
kitty

[crashdive123]

I saw your intro. For the situation you describe (not sure if it's in the budget) a stove like this and a 20lb lp bottle (the kind for gas grills) might work well. If it's not in the budget, a small soda can stove will probably be the most efficient. I don't think you need to worry about them exploding as long as you use one that is not pressurized. (the one in the picture I posted is considered a pressurized type) Something like a coffee can that has been opened up (a bit more than the one in the picture) can be used as a holder for the stove and a pot rest.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Emergency%20Gear/Emergencypreparednesssupplies004.jpg

[flandersander]

so you want a quick, durable, smokeless, stove? is methel hydrate or some sort of alcohol available in large quantaties? I find it in gallon jugs at farm stores, they use it as gasline antifreeze for tractors i think.

[springkitty]

Unfortunately not in the budget, crash. Think I'll go with the coffee can one. I can practice on one here as I will be here for a couple of more days, actually probably a bit longer, it storms/rains/storms/rains... cant move my furniture except for a bit at the time between rain/storm, drat it!!!! Will keep my progress posted, lol.
I am straining at the bits to relocate!! I will be using the pc's at the library at least a couple of times a week, weather permitting me to get out and about.
kitty

[crashdive123]

Whatever you decide upon please keep safety in mind. Aside from the possibility of fire, using a homemade stove will also give off gases that can be harmful. Only use one in a well ventilated area (outside if possible).

[panch0]

I have never seen one of those coke can stoves. How hard are they to build?

[crashdive123]

They're fairly easy to make. Here's a thread where Mitch did a review on the different types.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2260&highlight=alcohol+stoves

Here’s a pretty good site with some different types and directions to make them.

http://zenstoves.net/LinksGeneral-DIY.htm

[oly]

When I cook outside I just get a shovel full of hot coals from the fire pit and put the pan on top or use charcoal bricks

[tonester]

i have two coke can stoves and i love them. they are easy to use and the fuel is cheap. under good conditions i can get water boiling in 2 minutes.

[Stairman]

I bought an ezbit stove and hated it. Never mind the stench, 2 of the tablets together wouldnt even boil water, and I thought they were a little pricey too. The tablets not the stove. Maybe I got some old ones I dont Know. Anyway Welcome Kitty from North Florida to North Florida.

[crashdive123]

I bought an ezbit stove and hated it. Never mind the stench, 2 of the tablets together wouldnt even boil water, and I thought they were a little pricey too. The tablets not the stove. Maybe I got some old ones I dont Know. Anyway Welcome Kitty from North Florida to North Florida.

I suspect you may have been using Triox tabs instead of Esbit. In that picture I posted of the two different styles of Esbit type stoves, the one on the left is a true Esbit. Fuel on those (square blocks) is odorless. The stove on the right uses Triox(ane) fuel tablets (round ones) and they surely do stink.

[Stairman]

It was trioxane from the surplus store where I got the stove. Maybe Ill try ezbit if its better, Im sure its more expensive too. Im kinda like you and have a wide range of cook systems.

[crashdive123]

I love the Esbit for short hikes. I's not expensive at all. Here's a shameless plug for a good source of the fuel tabs, but since it's not my site.....http://safezonellc.com/esbitfuel.html

[Rick]

I've never had trouble boiling water with Esbit. General accomplished using very little of the tab.

[Rick]

Shameless plug accepted.

[oly]

Here's one of my projects in the near future.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOjKNoxBUQk

[Rick]

Here you go, Oly.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1230&highlight=hobo+stove

[crashdive123]

Springkitty - another option (I'm sure Erunk will weigh in on this) is a small oil burning stove. that same little can you were talking about with veggy oil, bacon grease, etc and a wick will give you a fairly long burn time. If you use a wick that has a wider burning surface, like a section of rolled up carboard it will produce more heat. Also - it's been said already, but can't be emphasized enough - safety, safety, safety.

[oly]

Nice post Rick
I have been thinking about airflow to keep it burning.

[gryffynklm]

SpringKitty, here is a link to a previous thread that may be of help.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5757&highlight=unusual+stoves


In the above link is a Stove Template link, i have included it below.
http://zenstoves.net/Templates.htm

The stoves in the template link offer some unique stove designs that used different fuels.

Economically speaking, wood, brush and alcohol would be the least expensive. I have even used paper in a coffee can stove however the ash content is high and likes to fly about in windy conditions.

I have made several soda can alcohol burners of different heights and diameter to experiment with burn time and heat output. Since the soda can burner is not pressurized, it will not explode.

A note of safety, make sure you put your stove or burner on a non flammable surface. Even a pie tin will protect counter tops from heat and fuel.

[gryffynklm]

Rick's post above looks like a good simple design. I bet it burns clean when it gets going. Thanks Rick for bring up that post again, I have wanted to make one.

[springkitty]

Thanks everyone, think I'll go the coffee can route, lol. Crash posted a pic of one and I have been busy making one this morning but weather got nasty, had to come in, will do more this afternoon. Want to check it out before I try it in my new neighborhood. One woman who has a little place there thinks all smoke stinks so I am trying not to make any waves, lol.
What part of N. Fl, stairman? I'm in Lake City.

[Rick]

Just make certain you use the coffee can stove outside.

[gryffynklm]

Good point Rick, I should have been more specific. I should have pointed out that I have used a small pop can alcohol burner in the kitchen with windows cracked to heat soup during a power outage. I wouldn't call it cooking. The coffee can stove shouldn't be used indoors.

[Rick]

I don't get too excited about using a propane or white gas stove inside. First, I have a CO alarm. Second, Propane stoves are in use in homes all over the country. I don't see a great deal of difference between the commercial propane stove with an oven and four burners or your propane camping stove.

[Rick]

@ Springkitty - I don't suppose this apartment has a fireplace or wood burning stove does it? Worth asking.

[bulrush]

Springkitty,
If you are homeless and will be living downtown, we won't judge you. But an alcohol stove doesn't emit much light, you cannot see it in the daytime, and barely at night, and it emits no smoke. Don't use it in a closed space though, you should have ventilation. And you can make one with 2 soda cans and a pocket knife, though a nail and hammer really help, along with a pair of regular scissors to cut the cans. I made one last week in 10 minutes.

If you were near me I could give it to you or train you in its use but I'm in west Michigan. The thing is, you need the top of a can, or piece of metal, a bit larger than the stove called a "priming pan". Fill the stove, now put 10 drops of alcohol in the priming pan, and light the priming pan. Wait about 1 minute (have your water/food ready) and the jets on top of the stove will start going. It takes about 7 minutes to boil 2 cups water.

Also, alcohol stoves don't explode (unless maybe, they were overfilled), the fuel is very safe and can be bought in any pharmacy (90% alcohol or better) or gas station (heet, yellow bottle) or hardware store (paint thinner called methanol or methylated spirits).

[Rick]

She has an apartment just doesn't have the funds, at the moment, to turn on the electricity.

[Sarge47]

I don't get too excited about using a propane or white gas stove inside. First, I have a CO alarm. Second, Propane stoves are in use in homes all over the country. I don't see a great deal of difference between the commercial propane stove with an oven and four burners or your propane camping stove.Propane is a poisonous gas, natural gas is not! Use it without the proper ventilation at your own risk.:cool2:

[Rick]

What are all those really big tanks sitting out behind folks houses? Can you say PROPANE? I knew you could. You might know them as LP tanks, which stands for liquid propane. Same stuff, bigger bottle.

[Sarge47]

Just sayin....




http://www.smileyshut.com/smileys/new/MSN-Emoticons/MSN-bomb-003.png (http://www.smileyshut.com/):cool2:

[bulrush]

Natural gas is not poisonous if inhaled? So they add smell to it because it explodes, not because it is poisonous if inhaled?

Anyone?

[Sarge47]

Natural gas is not poisonous if inhaled? So they add smell to it because it explodes, not because it is poisonous if inhaled?

Anyone?Natural gas can sufficate someone if it replaces all of the Oxygen in an enclosed space; I know because I have a family member who tried to commit suicide by inhaling natural gas...he's still here. LP(propane) gas, however IS poisonous, &, for the record, the apparatus involves with household propane gas products is a bit different than a cheap camp stove...read the warnings on both the stove & the containers.:cool2:

[crashdive123]

While many (not all) regard natural gas to be non toxic, if it displaces oxygen to the point where there is not a high enough concentration of oxygen - you gonna die. Natural gas is colorless and practically oderless. Additives to give it an odor are done so in order to detect leaks. While it is true that if enough natural gas is released into a confined space and displaces oxygen, the risk of explosion occurs at much lower concentrations. So, to answer your question - the additive causing odor is for detection to prevent fire/explosion.

[Ken]

The "odor" is added to natural gas by introducing trace amounts of a liquid chemical, usually "Mercaptan," into the gas as it "gasifies" from its compressed liquid state when it is introduced into distribution lines at the "gas plant." This chemical is so highly concentrated that a mere thimble-full, if spilled on a street in a major city, would probably cause a wholesale evacuation of an area of several blocks .

[Sarge47]

The "odor" is added to natural gas by introducing trace amounts of a liquid chemical, usually "Mercaptan," into the gas as it "gasifies" from its compressed liquid state when it is introduced into distribution lines at the "gas plant." This chemical is so highly concentrated that a mere thimble-full, if spilled on a street in a major city, would probably cause a wholesale evacuation of an area of several blocks.
Evacuation like this can also happen if someone OD's on Navy beans & corn bread. Or if they have some sort of "gastric dis-order"! We have a driver whom the military is interested in for their "bio-chemical warfare" division. :innocent::sneaky2::online2long:

[Ken]

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-fart001.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

[Rick]

This chemical is so highly concentrated that a mere thimble-full, if spilled on a street in a major city, would probably cause a wholesale evacuation of an area of several blocks .

Uh, yeah. The part of the country I'm from is undermined (literally) with abandoned coal mines. It become somewhat fashionable a few years back to drill into the entries and use the methane to heat with. Of course, Mercaptan is required to be added as a safety measure. As Ken explained, it's there to detect a gas leak. My brother happens to heat an outdoor storage business with methane and made the mistake of dropping probably a thimble full of the stuff while adding it. The gas company was on site in about an hour with a sniffer truck because they had received so many complaints of a "gas leak". Yeah, that stuff really stinks.

You may not know this but Mercaptan (Methanethiol) is the stuff that makes your breath smell bad and your f**ts stink. True!

[Sarge47]

You may not know this but Mercaptan (Methanethiol) is the stuff that makes your breath smell bad and your f**ts stink. True!
Well...that's...uh...sure interesting. And what prompted you to investigate THAT "nature fact". Here, pull my gas valve!:innocent::sneaky2::cool2:

[bulrush]

You may not know this but Mercaptan (Methanethiol) is the stuff that makes your breath smell bad and your f**ts stink. True!
I'm sure it's one of many chemicals that humans make.

[Rick]

I'm full of.....Don't tell me.....I know this one.....obscure facts and things no one cares about. That's it!

[Badawg]

For cheap and smoke free, Alcohol is your best bet. build yourself a supercat stove.

[Ken]

You may not know this but Mercaptan (Methanethiol) is the stuff that makes your breath smell bad and your f**ts stink. True!

I don't have bad breath and my f**ts don't stink! :innocent:

[crashdive123]

I don't have bad breath and my f**ts don't stink! :innocent:

http://www.smileyshut.com/smileys/new/emot96.gif (http://www.smileyshut.com/Smileys/Smiley-Huts-Free-Large-JvP-Smileys.html)

[oly]

OK natural gas is lighter than air so it will try to escape and go to the atmosphere making it safer than LP.

LP (propane) is heavier than air so it sinks to the ground just looking for an ignition source.

Both will produce carbon monoxide with an incomplete combustion ( yellow flame ) and produce 1 gal. of water for every 100,000 BTU burnt with an acid content ( if you have an condensing furnace also known as 90+ efficient furnace don't drink the water ).

Butane has a boiling point of about 32F ( changing state from a liquid to a vapor, vapor burns and liquid does not ) and is added to LP to lower the cost of production in warmer climates and seasons supposedly:argue: and also produce CO

Please no hvac chat for me here.

[Rick]

My only point (folks seem to miss my point a lot. Could it be me? Naaaaaw.) is that propane camping stoves pose no greater risk than a standard kitchen cooking stove that runs on propane. Anything beyond electric needs to a CO alarm, however.

[oly]

My only point (folks seem to miss my point a lot. Could it be me? Naaaaaw.) is that propane camping stoves pose no greater risk than a standard kitchen cooking stove that runs on propane. Anything beyond electric needs to a CO alarm, however.

I knew that Rick just trying to give others info

[Rick]

I knew that you knew that I knew you were trying to ...... Never mind. I got confused.

[oly]

I'm always confused or drunk and sometime both, but tonight I have a lump in my chair that's out of place.

[Rick]

There's nothing worse than a misplaced bacon sandwich. Nothing!