View Full Version : Sterlization for welfare?
bulrush
05-19-2009, 08:35 AM
Would you support sterilization in order for people to receive welfare?
See my blog entry: http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/blog.php?b=218
EDIT: What I was referring to was sterlization for welfare abuse. If you're on welfare more than 2 years consecutive or non-consecutive, you have an attitude problem, not a money problem. Sterlization would come into effect in this case.
Ole WV Coot
05-19-2009, 08:56 AM
Too much Government intervention now. I feel like I have lost rather than gained freedom. I can almost agree in some cases, but NO. What's next? Euthanize every old person who can no longer contribute to society?
mcfd45
05-19-2009, 09:36 AM
Just because some people are having a hard time and ask for government help gives the government no right to sterilize them. I would however support random drug tests. If the person decided that they wanted to get there stuff tied we should offer them it. But it should not be required.
Jeff
mountain mama
05-19-2009, 09:43 AM
I say that if a woman opts to have another child while already on welfare, she loses ALL benefits. Why reward bad behavior?
However, I am all for sterilization of deadbeat dads.
How about sterilizing people we think are just bad for our society? Seems like a pretty small step if we take the first one. Hitler thought it was a good idea. I'm kind of agreeing with Dad here, what people don't know in North America is how much forced/coerced sterilization has taken place already because the medical community is so good at keeping it's little secrets.
One point here.......
Sterilization may not be the proper term here. The "Angry Pharmacist" appears to advocate the use of "Depo Provera" - a long-term contraceptive with no permanent effects. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depo-Provera
Depo-Provera is NOT sterilization. His argument suggests that women should not get pregnant if/while they are already on welfare.
Think about the California mom who just gave birth to octuplets - while on welfare.
Also think about the countless women who suffer from retardation/mental illness/major drug addiction and are on welfare but not living in the "supervised" environment provided by long-term care facilities or group homes. They actually have the legal capacity to consent to sexual relations but virtually no ability to consider the consequences.
Does the impact on their right to reproduce by administration of long term contraception (12 - 13 weeks) outweigh the rights of society to not bear the expense of supporting these children? How about the rights of kids to be born with at least a hope of a good life with their natural parents?
Yeah, tough questions all. When you look to the government and society for your support, should any strings be attached to the benefits you receive? Should people face the consequences of their actions?
However, I am all for sterilization of deadbeat dads.
Absolute truth here. I know a guy who has fathered 9 kids by 9 women. He has only supported (sporadically) 2 of these kids, born to the two women he actually married. One of those children is now an adult, "working the street" so to speak. His parents have custody of the second child. The other 7 - never a dime paid in support. He reproduces when he isn't in prison.
Last summer, 2 mothers gave birth to a child he fathered, about 6 weeks apart from each other.
Most of the women in question have multiple kids, no father around, and are on some type of government assistance. The guy himself is a drug-dealing sociopath. He has never been identified as the father by any of the "7 moms." Wonder why........
bulrush
05-19-2009, 11:05 AM
However, I am all for sterilization of deadbeat dads.
I also agree with that above statement (so my post is not too short).
bulrush
05-19-2009, 11:07 AM
Think about the California mom who just gave birth to octuplets - while on welfare.
One correction here. Octomom was not on welfare, Aid for Dependent Children, or Food Stamps, or WIC, when the octo kids were born, she was on Disability. Article didn't state whether it was federal or state disability. But she was "disabled" from a work accident.
However, she is probably on full welfare now. How on earth could she possibly think a single mom could take care of 14 kids????
bulrush
05-19-2009, 11:11 AM
Too much Government intervention now. I feel like I have lost rather than gained freedom. I can almost agree in some cases, but NO. What's next? Euthanize every old person who can no longer contribute to society?
Coot, sounds like you don't mind paying taxes for welfare abusers. Will you pay my portion of taxes that goes to welfare programs? I'm not trying to start a pissing contest, I'm just asking.
I agree there is too much gov't intervention. Gov't trying to support chronic welfare and ER abusers, nacrotic abusers, and baby daddies. Now that gov't has created the problems, only the gov't is big enough to solve the problems. Hence my concept.
bulrush
05-19-2009, 11:16 AM
Yeah, tough questions all. When you look to the government and society for your support, should any strings be attached to the benefits you receive? Should people face the consequences of their actions?
I think people should face consequences for their actions. If you have another kid while on welfare, YOU pay for it. You could have gotten FREE birth control from a local family planning agency, or even your family doctor, or a college doctor. (At my college, the college nurse would give away free birth control pills and condoms just for asking.)
If you do too many drugs and become a vegetable, I should not have to pay for your mistakes.
How about if I drive drunk and crash my car into a tree? Will you guys give me a new car? A big, shiny car that goes real fast. "Well? Well?? It's my right!!" That's what the other side says anyway.
Sorry for holding back on you, and all.
DOGMAN
05-19-2009, 11:26 AM
I think the government should take on a wide scale sterilization project, run the country like a kennel. Decide who can breed and who can't and then have a long-term selective breeding project and create a super race!
I am willing to be the "foundation stud" of this project. I am willing to go all the way for my country!
If I could just get the feds to start bringing beautiful ladies to my remote mountain lair, we could really get this country back on track!
I am willing to be the "foundation stud" of this project.
I knew this was coming. As soon as I saw that you were posting a reply, I knew this was coming. :innocent:
This is kind of ironic, because I often hear many of my neighbors to the south admiring Canada's universal health care program. Well, someone pays for it, every time I look at my pay stub I know I'm one of the payees.
If you decide to eat your way to nirvana and BK your way to four hundred pounds and then have a heart attack, I shouldn't have to pay for it.
If you're gasping for life on a respirator because you smoke a pack a day for thirty years and now the emphysema is killing you, I shouldn't have to pay for it.
If some teenager is ambulanced to an emergency room and has a few litres of blood pumped into him and a surgeon stitching his guts back in at however many hundreds of dollars per hour because the kid got drunk and wrapped his car around a light pole, I shouldn't have to pay for it.
Maybe if all those health care losers' parents had been sterilized back when, I wouldn't be paying for it.
Can anyone here tell me where the next Einstein, King,Jr, Schweitzer or Ghandi is going to be born? Of course not. Can't tell me when and where the next Hitler or Idi Amin is going to be born either, I know. But what I think is, if I can't bear the cost of what being in this society costs me, then it's up to me to withdraw from society and quit paying the bills, but I stay.
Trax,
Some answers merely present more questions. Agreed?
DOGMAN
05-19-2009, 11:36 AM
I knew this was coming. As soon as I saw that you were posting a reply, I knew this was coming. :innocent:
I am pretty predicatable....
Trax,
Some answers merely present more questions. Agreed?
Nobody's questioned me on what I mentioned in my first post about the sterlizations that have taken place. Think I'd only answer those in pm's anyway, this isn't the place for them.
My concern is, really, if this was to take place, where do you draw the line? Do I have more right to life than someone who is mentally damaged? Do I have more right to life than the offspring of someone who is mentally damaged?
I come from a far different belief system than that and that's something else I don't really care to discuss in an open forum, but again, where do we draw the line?
If enforced sterilization is ok, what if some 'welfare bum' slips through and gets pregnant? Enforced abortion?
Every person on this forum living in a nation that utilizes a democratic process can do more than was ever achievable before in the history of this planet to determine what kind of society they want to live in. They have the right to have their voices heard by those who would be their elected officials. So, make those determinations at election time people.
nell67
05-19-2009, 11:56 AM
I will refrain from giving my opinion on the subject,being one of 11 kids with a father who didn't work from the time I was 5 years old,until about 5 years ago,after all his offspring obligation was gone and no one could come back on him for reimbursement of any kind.
mountain mama
05-19-2009, 12:00 PM
One correction here. Octomom was not on welfare, Aid for Dependent Children, or Food Stamps, or WIC, when the octo kids were born, she was on Disability. Article didn't state whether it was federal or state disability. But she was "disabled" from a work accident.
However, she is probably on full welfare now. How on earth could she possibly think a single mom could take care of 14 kids????
She may not have been receiving "welfare" by your terms, the fact remains that she was not financially independent and was receiving public assistance in the form of SSDI for several of her previous 6. One simply for having ADHD. I have a couple of kids with ADHD, can I have a hand out too????
DOGMAN
05-19-2009, 12:03 PM
Can anyone here tell me where the next Einstein, King,Jr, Schweitzer or Ghandi is going to be born? Of course not. Can't tell me when and where the next Hitler or Idi Amin is going to be born either.
This is pretty interesting conversation...
In dog breeding, and in animal sports/breeding in general, Champions create champions. Thats not debatable.
A very wise mushing mentor of mine ( a brilliant guy with a 4th grade education- who has owned over 2,000 sled dogs in his life) once explained it to me like this...(paraphrased)
"If your trying to create a solid Iditarod team, you have to start with the best genetics you can get- get 50-60 puppies and then train/condition them to the highest level they can handle. Of the huge number you started with, only about 15-20 of them will be able to mentally and physically handle the mileage and be able to make an Iditarod team, only 2 or 3 of them will ever be "great" athletes, that other good mushers will want to breed to.
So, keep this in mind when you are wanting to breed...out of 60 top bred puppies only a couple of them will be truly exceptional athletes.
If you think you can get a solid team, from just collecting a bunch of mutts or culls- you are fooling yourself. The sheer number of dogs you'll have to go through will be overwhelming. Sure, you could take-in every husky from shelters in Anchorage and Fairbanks, and the rest of the world, and eventually find a solid dog or two, but, even then you really don't know how that dog will perform when things get really, really tough, because you don't know how their hardwired.
So, when you want to get serious about putting together a race team, spare no expense at getting the best foundation dogs you can get. Because 1 out of 30 pups will probably be exceptional- but you'll still get a fair number of team dogs. It'll save you a lot of work, and time- going this way. Sure, you could eventually get a great dog from a shelter- BUT, THINK OF HOW MANY KIDS ARE PRODUCED IN GHETTOS, BEFORE YOU GET AN OPRAH WINFREY. If you want greatness, you've got to start with greatness.
........ and no one could come back on him for reimbursement of any kind.
Why? I've done it. The last time was for a mom who's youngest was around 35 years old. Poor dad - had to refinance the house. The original weekly support order wasn't that much, but it adds up with 15 years of no payments and interest accruing. In many states, you have up to 20 years to collect on a judgment. In Massachusetts, child support continues up to age 23 if the "child" is still in school or otherwise "unemancipated." That's when the 20 years begins.........
Two notes of interest. Most votes in so far say, yes but only in a few circumstances. Who decides what circumstances? Who gets to make that call that you're changing someone else's life forever, without their consent. Taking control of that person's life because of whatever circumstances they happen to be living in. I don't want that responsibility personally. I like sleeping at night.
J_M's post about the Iditarod teams. How many people here have dogs? How many of your dogs are race team quality? I know WonderMutt sure isn't, they don't make traces that small for starters. But I really love that dog. Should your dog never have been born because it isn't star athlete quality? But humans...yes?
DOGMAN
05-19-2009, 01:13 PM
Trax,
I was just responding to the question,
"Can anyone here tell me where the next Einstein, King,Jr, Schweitzer or Ghandi is going to be born?"
I am not going down the road of "Who should be born" or what worth a person or animal has. Because, really that is a relative question.
But, I will say, that there is a connection between breeding and success- both in dogs and humans. I know a lot of people, will attribute that to the nature versus nurture debate, and cycles of disfunction, etc... But, there is alot of evidence that there are predisposed genetic dispostions. So, what I am getting at is, we may not know where the next "great leader" is coming from....but, we have a pretty good idea of where they won't be coming from. Statisically speaking champion sled dogs arent born in shelters, and Presidents aren't born in ghettos.
That doesn't mean that people or dogs from less fortunate circumstances don't have value.
jrock24
05-19-2009, 01:45 PM
Then should there be disability, SSI or any type of government assistance?
J_M: And I, for one, think that the preponderance of evidence certainly supports your point. I don't disagree that genetics plays a huge part in any beings development. I was told for the first 2/3rds of my life that I was "exactly like my Dad" I barely knew the man, so it wasn't from following him around and copying his ways that I became like that. I can see my sons in me and my grandsons in their fathers. My point is, that if we follow that line of thinking, it leads us to a slippery slope.
Who makes the decisions if we start mandating sterilization, or abortion, or begin selective breeding? Perhaps that god-like figure will decide that neither a trax or a jason_montana are appropriate "siring" material, then what do we become?
Top it off - let it idle
05-19-2009, 01:55 PM
Social institutions should reward responsible behavior. I'm one of those broken home poster children and had a mother that never accepted any sort of support. She had her first child at 16 (put up for adoption)... had me at 17 and my brother at 24. She has always been fiercely independent and self-reliant and has passed the good and the bad of that to me. Was her behavior responsible... from a reproductive standpoint not really. Did she have the attitude that society needed to bail her out? Absolutely not. Unfortunately there is a trend among recent generations that they are entitled to just about everything. I teach and see it in the classroom and I see it in younger coworkers. Constructive criticism is offensive to them and there is a sense that just by the very nature of their existence they deserve the good life and can do no wrong. Now I know that this doesn't cross all socioeconomic boundaries but it's common in middle class Gen-X and Gen-Y.
It is not unreasonable to require that people who receive support modify their behavior and take significant step to improve their situation so that they are able to become self sufficient. If that means being required to utilize some form of birth control that is effective, not prone to forgetfulness and is long term, then that may be a reasonable requirement if irresponsible reproduction is a significant part of the problem. Having two children that I want to provide security and stability to, I know the challenges. At the same time, some form of education should be required to give that person the skills needed to make positive changes in their situation. It is a fact that in educated, industrialized societies birth rates drop. It is also a fact that educated, working women have fewer children. Whether you are for or against birth control, there can be no dispute that education plays a significant role in reproduction.
Do I support forced sterilization? No. That's is indeed a slippery slope.
DOGMAN
05-19-2009, 02:13 PM
J_M: And I, for one, think that the preponderance of evidence certainly supports your point. I don't disagree that genetics plays a huge part in any beings development. I was told for the first 2/3rds of my life that I was "exactly like my Dad" I barely knew the man, so it wasn't from following him around and copying his ways that I became like that. I can see my sons in me and my grandsons in their fathers. My point is, that if we follow that line of thinking, it leads us to a slippery slope.
Who makes the decisions if we start mandating sterilization, or abortion, or begin selective breeding? Perhaps that god-like figure will decide that neither a trax or a jason_montana are appropriate "siring" material, then what do we become?
Unfortuantly, for my son. I realized to late in life that I'm not good "siring" material.
Scoobywan
05-19-2009, 02:15 PM
I think maybe we should just sterilize everyone until the human population drops a bit. Then we wouldn't have to worry about welfare/assistance, because there would be enough jobs/food/etc. I mean, when the population of deer gets to be to much for the ecosystem, they have hunting season to keep the population in check....
In reality though, I have to say no, there have been a lot of great people that have come from poverty. I don't agree with the if you're born poor and on welfare you're destined to be the same way. I think a lot of good people come from it, just because the get it in their head that they don't want to live like that ever again. On the same note, I think there should be some guidelines when it comes to being on welfare/support and still poppin out little ones every year. Not necessarily sterilization, but maybe a flat rate of assistance or something similar so that having more kids won't improve your financial situation.
When it comes to government support, and government involvement, there are a lot of slippery slopes... we're still sliding down several of them from the past. :)
Unfortuantly, for my son. I realized to late in life that I'm not good "siring" material.
I don't believe that, bro. Although, that may be the case with me too, but folks have just been too darned nice to tell me.
DOGMAN
05-19-2009, 02:26 PM
Obviously...i voted no.
What is Oprah without the ghetto ?
What is a "great athlete" without "not so great athletes" ?
What is responsible, without the irresponsible ?
What is strong, without the weak ?
What is smart, without the stupid ?
What is night, without day.
What is brave, without cowardice ?
What is right, without wrong ?
What is good, without bad ?
What is sweet, without sour ?
What is victory, without defeat ?
What is peace, without war ?
What is overcoming, without challenges ?
What is beautiful, without ugliness ?
What is silence, without noise ?
What is you, without me ?
Remy, I am liking what you are saying...Am I getting this right?.. what your saying, is that words create distinction. And distinction from the other, is how we define things? So, good only has meaning- when there is a bad? So, our use of words and language to define what something is- works by seperating one thing from the next? Contrast?
Ole WV Coot
05-19-2009, 02:29 PM
Coot, sounds like you don't mind paying taxes for welfare abusers. Will you pay my portion of taxes that goes to welfare programs? I'm not trying to start a pissing contest, I'm just asking.
I agree there is too much gov't intervention. Gov't trying to support chronic welfare and ER abusers, nacrotic abusers, and baby daddies. Now that gov't has created the problems, only the gov't is big enough to solve the problems. Hence my concept.
We all know some people who shouldn't be allowed to reproduce, that I agree with as with drug testing, mandatory for me when working and for others that worked with me which would involve my safety. I agree that there are jobs, even picking up trash for your check. I can't hire a decent worker because they do better not working. I grumble just like you and paid enough taxes to claim a dozen recipients as dependents. Where we part ways is giving the government more power over us. These problems should be investigated on the state or county level and I doubt if anyone would object to that. No harm, no foul maybe I didn't make myself clear.
Badawg
05-19-2009, 02:55 PM
I think sterilizing politicians would be more appropriate...
mountain mama
05-19-2009, 03:24 PM
I would personally contribute to a hysterectomy for octomom
There has to be a limit and if some people are too foolish to figure that out for themselves, then maybe the government should step in. And SHAME on the doctors who helped that worthless heap get pregnant a second time! I think they should be the ones paying all the medical bills and social security to raise those kids.
bulrush
05-19-2009, 03:42 PM
Please keep in mind that I clarified who this pertains to in the very first post. Sterlization would pertain to only CHRONIC WELFARE ABUSERS, whose sole purpose in life is to suck the lifeblood out of society and find things to complain about.
If Octomom doesn't go on welfare, then she would not be sterilized, and the kids would suffer for it too.
mountain mama
05-19-2009, 04:08 PM
And as I already pointed out, she may not be receiving the form of public support you refer to as "welfare" but she is sucking the life blood out of social security by spitting out disabled kids (one is autistic, so I'll give her that one, but ADHD? PULEEZE)
I used to teach special education once upon a time. There was one family that everyone knew. The mother would intentionally drink during pregnancy so that she would be ensured a disabled child. A disabled child brings in much more income than a healthy child. This woman had 7 disabled children who will forever be a burden on society simply because she wanted more social security. Why should you or I have to pay for that?
Are you all kidding? I know tons of folks NOT on welfare I want sterilized. I'll even do it! For free!!! I'll use the two bricks method. You just slap those bricks together and Presto! problem solved. It only hurts if you get your thumbs between the bricks. So you have to watch out for that.
You can't legislate morality. If you want to stay on welfare, fine. If you want to go out and have 30 kids, that's okay, too. Only I don't want to pay for your lazy, sorry a88. Welfare should work just like unemployment. You get it for a set amount of time then you get to go to work like the rest of us or starve.
I think Jason has the right idea, too. I'm volunteering to be the stud on deck. If Jason is just too tuckered out and needs someone to stand in for him. I'm your man. I don't want to be primary, though. Too much pressure for an old guy like me.
Don't want that Canadian hospitalization plan either. We already have that in just about every big city emergency room.
crashdive123
05-19-2009, 06:18 PM
Hey Rick - Jason said he was tuckered out.
http://www.funpicsfree.com/photogallery/funny-pics-0924/funny-pic-ugly-man2.jpg
Now that's what I'm talkin' 'bout! If all the sex will make me look like that. Okay then!!!!!! I could use the improvements!
Anyone know what I can get a hat like that?
Anyone know what I can get a hat like that?
C'mon. Everyone knows it's those melted glue stick snots that make the man. :thumbup:
COWBOYSURVIVAL
05-26-2009, 04:27 PM
I say yes, in most circumstances and it should be the Father as it is the role of the Father to provide for the family.
LowKey
05-26-2009, 07:56 PM
I think maybe we should just sterilize everyone until the human population drops a bit.
That would make it a little tough to start up the gene pool again. I'll abstain, thanks. ;)
Has anyone ever read about the Eugenics studies of Shutesbury, MA, ca. 1934? It almost happened. Who decides.
Everyone wants to vote themselves a free lunch. Whether it's healthcare, welfare, or an instant 'fix' for a broken economy. Common sense is pretty much a dead concept these days. Don't rely on the Government to provide anything. Don't expect the Government to bail you out. Don't expect the Government to do the "right thing" for everyone. Just because you can vote for it, doesn't mean you can afford it. And because anyone else can vote for what they want too, may mean you will lose what you want. Someone always loses.
Yeah, I'd still like someone to tell me who's going to set the criteria and make the call on who gets the "cut" because all them folks voting for this might not like it much if the criteria suddenly changes and they find themselves on someone's list.....
crashdive123
05-27-2009, 04:47 PM
Yeah, I'd still like someone to tell me who's going to set the criteria and make the call on who gets the "cut" because all them folks voting for this might not like it much if the criteria suddenly changes and they find themselves on someone's list.....
I suppose the Quality Control Department could add that to the list of services they provide.
Boker
05-27-2009, 07:06 PM
I have a solution to welfare. I'll try to be brief. I believe this will significantly lower both the welfare and prison populations.
We dug then lost control of the Panama Canal. Its time for another one. Our nation benefits from an Atlantic-pacific route.
Lets take all those on welfare and have them start digging between the US and Mexico. Those that can't operate a shovel can work in axillary compacity IE cooks, daycare etc...
Prison population: Same deal, don't wanna work don't commit the crime. We use the US military to prevent the inmates from escaping back into the US. Should they want to go to Mexico, we have at least provided them a ride to the border.
Almost everything needed for this project will be supplied by the 'work force'. From lumber camps in the Northwest to concrete plants at the border, our 'work force' will do it all.
I've got most of the details worked out. Its not that I believe in punishing folks of this nature, I just believe I should have a return on my investment.
mountain mama
05-27-2009, 08:19 PM
Boker for president!
DOGMAN
05-27-2009, 08:26 PM
"Every tool is a weapon if you hold it right" Ani DiFranco
If you can't beat em....out breed em
Now this is only hearsay
Poligimists have wives that have high paying jobs and the others are on welfare, can you just imagine if this is true how much money the really have?
LostOutrider
05-27-2009, 08:30 PM
There was a time, when I was a kid, that my father lost his job. He ended up having to take some work in another city. For a while there, my folks had to swallow some pride to feed their kids.
I'm glad he didn't have to get sterilized on top of that.
Now, I know that calling it sterilization is a bit of an exaggeration. And we're talking about repeat offenders - however that is defined. But things like this tend to expand 'n get out of hand real quick-like. In this case, the slope really is pretty slippery. It has already been mentioned, but look at the medical sterilizations done by German doctors. A lot of that started under an umbrella of greater good - better national health, no more folks with undesirable mental problems . . or physical deformities . . . making babies for hard-working, honest citizens to have to pay to care for. Then that definition of undesirable spread to include race - and sterilization turned into extermination. In our example, the undesirable that needs to be locked out of reproduction is one of socio-economic status. But, really, would that fall on all colors equally?
mountain mama
05-27-2009, 08:36 PM
Does poverty fall on all colors equally? Are the prisons filled with all colors equally represented?
DOGMAN
05-27-2009, 08:46 PM
Does poverty fall on all colors equally? Are the prisons filled with all colors equally represented?
thats a loaded question.....
LostOutrider
05-27-2009, 08:57 PM
That is pretty much my point.
I have a solution, though. I'll even give it away free. It only works for folks who are young enough and fit enough to work. But I'm guessing that's where the disgust is focused.
First, build quality childcare centers and open them free of charge for folks on welfare. We have years of research that shows how this is a cycle that begins at birth, how these kids will be forever behind and more likely to continue this cycle. We have years of research that shows how quality preschool programs -work- to close that gap. You're going to be feeding those kids breakfast and lunch anyway once they hit public school, so instead of welfare cards - feed 'em at the daycare. That way, we know that the money is going directly to feed the kids. It isn't their fault they were born to the wrong family.
If you're going to pick up a welfare check, it means you don't have a job. To get the check, put 'em to work while we educate and care for their kids. Offer a scaled amount depending on the job. If you're physically fit enough to hold a broom, shovel, or stop sign - then give 'em 6 hours of work. There are public buildings in every city that could use a little cleaning up. There's highway and public streets that need to be cleaned. There's city parks and state parks that need to be tended. Shoot, start rebuilding our nation's shameful infrastructure. Offer incentives to those who want to take the labor a step further and turn it into certifications and added training.
Offer a work-study program where they learn a trade. Maybe early childcare worker to help run those programs I referenced earlier. Cooks, mechanics, caregivers, bus drivers, even education para-professionals. Instead of sterilization, offer education. To pick up the check - you have to work.
mountain mama
05-27-2009, 09:08 PM
Okay, I like both Boker and LostOutrider's ideas, so who is going to be vice president?
LostOutrider
05-27-2009, 09:15 PM
Better to be the king's adviser than the king. I'll take VP.
LowKey
05-29-2009, 08:48 PM
Everyone points to Nazi Germany.
The US study I mentioned was pre-Hitler..........
When you dig a canal, don't you start in the middle and work out? Otherwise you'd be holding back a lot of water as you go... But I like it. :D
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11-12-2025, 06:01 PM
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Jean (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/1075825)Punk (http://gascautery.ru/t/1147302)Todd (http://gashbucket.ru/t/1094772)Herb (http://gasreturn.ru/t/1223689)Ente (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/1210721)Алек (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1240702)Bonu (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/1553276)Scot (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/1210927)Orch (http://geartreating.ru/t/1133977)Danc (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/1117025)Питк (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/1244677)Ente (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/1118168)Жура (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/1350871)Грай (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/1145109)Исма (http://getthebounce.ru/t/851768)
Loud (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/1088982)DIAT (http://habituate.ru/t/1092796)Yosh (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/1210592)*уди (http://hackworker.ru/t/1346525)Bart (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/1104356)Куче (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/1099746)Baho (http://hailsquall.ru/t/1140494)Mast (http://hairysphere.ru/t/1085153)Walt (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/1073201)Gamm (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/1031918)Серж (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/938248)Васю (http://haltstate.ru/t/963308)скла (http://handcoding.ru/t/1028827)Вере (http://handportedhead.ru/t/1250527)Will (http://handradar.ru/t/907841)
серт (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/1066507)Patr (http://hangonpart.ru/t/1144858)Frie (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/943700)Васи (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/786734)Козл (http://hardasiron.ru/t/812471)исто (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/947373)Фрей (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/1003666)Oury (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/930275)Бобе (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/1195045)Neri (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/1547499)Вирм (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/1349264)кноп (http://headregulator.ru/t/1547543)Sela (http://heartofgold.ru/t/1547923)Гали (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/1199462)лите (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1377504)
Lloy (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/1182986)Vikr (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/771216)XVII (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/836775)Кель (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/1357456)упра (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/831886)губе (http://jobstress.ru/t/911262)Wind (http://jogformation.ru/t/1041676)Coto (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/1148223)учре (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1224031)Will (http://journallubricator.ru/t/1306869)Coto (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/1148211)Roxy (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/1180877)Sams (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/1182386)Vent (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/1187743)Sela (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/1180527)
Niki (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/1181593)меди (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/831702)Jame (http://kentishglory.ru/t/1183595)Adio (http://kerbweight.ru/t/1189179)Соде (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/836208)Пете (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/814587)*оди (http://keyserum.ru/t/1181393)Деба (http://kickplate.ru/t/1372586)Fogl (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/1354977)Jeff (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/1115020)Тюти (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/1357341)мань (http://kinozones.ru/film/4673)Tell (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/1202002)Холо (http://kneejoint.ru/t/1225126)Circ (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1711297)
Edwa (http://knockonatom.ru/t/1048955)Davi (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/1230970)Digi (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/1517857)Хухл (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1321541)Диом (http://laborracket.ru/t/1369708)Zone (http://labourearnings.ru/t/1549011)Zone (http://labourleasing.ru/t/1548713)Zone (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/1191089)Zone (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1189737)R0X0 (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/1189030)Можа (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1224837)Zone (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/1194172)ERIA (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/1192449)Zone (http://laggingload.ru/t/1190744)Zone (http://laissezaller.ru/t/1192382)
Zone (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/1192478)Zone (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/1194163)Серо (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1303021)Zone (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1185579)Zone (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1185529)Chet (http://lancingdie.ru/t/1186968)Zone (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1189539)Depr (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1407864)Zone (http://landreform.ru/t/1187415)Zone (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1185766)Zone (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1191539)клей (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1163516)хоро (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1536998)WTF- (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/881)дета (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/591526)
yellowcab
11-12-2025, 06:02 PM
*осс (http://laterevent.ru)Sams (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/452248)Lamu (http://layabout.ru/shop/600365)(рег (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/1037808)Jenn (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/337522)межд (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/620989)Swar (http://leaveword.ru/shop/1025933)инди (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/445930)Ш*-2 (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/670589)Итал (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/575788)Wind (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/270366)Бога (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/788271)1925 (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/788669)Bert (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/613009)Bria (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/1175270)
грун (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/1175349)Inte (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/3191)Medi (http://mp3lists.ru/item/4145)Bali (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/1151457)Reno (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/575438)цепо (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/462381)Диам (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/1056383)созд (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/577506)язык (http://navelseed.ru/shop/103984)язык (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/456294)WIND (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/185473)Wind (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/640865)wwwr (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/652126)подр (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/471303)DeLo (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/97663)
Clor (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/457904)шорт (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/302405)Plan (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/144210)Ницм (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/150067)seri (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/204365)Wond (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/204154)Unit (http://onesticket.ru/shop/582502)Davi (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/584478)Agat (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/688194)Лит* (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/685762)Сере (http://palmberry.ru/shop/690400)Лит* (http://papercoating.ru/shop/585510)Серо (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/745991)Чело (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1172953)Acad (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1172885)
Ново (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1178249)Acad (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1175966)Семе (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1543945)Каэт (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/1543697)Acad (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/597929)Севе (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/853455)True (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1077452)Yevg (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1081349)Dang (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/395263)Digi (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/511982)`Лен (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/641664)Bonu (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/907799)Влад (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/1076480)серф (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1400642)само (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/1400728)
When (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/516079)собс (http://rearchain.ru/shop/878789)Cine (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/879394)Dial (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/1034969)Prof (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1658755)Timo (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1064777)Сави (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1687780)Lynn (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1694846)англ (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1772427)учащ (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/1776125)Соде (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1821656)Зату (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1292433)Бирг (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1854958)Fion (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1880741)Любе (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1915517)
Wilh (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1495923)Кост (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1941186)Свят (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1556142)*азв (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1629125)Быст (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1458885)чело (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1494314)Amst (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/391561)Иллю (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/403866)преп (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/1659917)праз (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/1693331)WTF- (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/881)WTF- (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/881)WTF- (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/881)Marc (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/485729)выру (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/496713)
Wond (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/501057)Скре (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/506342)Унде (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/490354)Галк (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/502201)отве (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1851393)учеб (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1901009)Shak (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/1929871)Djan (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/796425)Hans (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/907475)Соло (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/983486)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Very (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/983926)Pand (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/486169)
yellowcab
01-26-2026, 09:32 AM
инфо (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)инфо (http://cottagenet.ru)инфо (http://eyesvision.ru)инфо (http://eyesvisions.com)инфо (http://factoringfee.ru)инфо (http://filmzones.ru)инфо (http://gadwall.ru)инфо (http://gaffertape.ru)инфо (http://gageboard.ru)инфо (http://gagrule.ru)инфо (http://gallduct.ru)инфо (http://galvanometric.ru)инфо (http://gangforeman.ru)инфо (http://gangwayplatform.ru)инфо (http://garbagechute.ru)
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инфо (http://habeascorpus.ru)инфо (http://habituate.ru)инфо (http://hackedbolt.ru)инфо (http://hackworker.ru)инфо (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)инфо (http://haemagglutinin.ru)инфо (http://hailsquall.ru)инфо (http://hairysphere.ru)инфо (http://halforderfringe.ru)инфо (http://halfsiblings.ru)инфо (http://hallofresidence.ru)инфо (http://haltstate.ru)инфо (http://handcoding.ru)инфо (http://handportedhead.ru)инфо (http://handradar.ru)
инфо (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)инфо (http://hangonpart.ru)инфо (http://haphazardwinding.ru)инфо (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)инфо (http://hardasiron.ru)инфо (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)инфо (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)инфо (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)инфо (http://hatchholddown.ru)инфо (http://haveafinetime.ru)инфо (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)инфо (http://headregulator.ru)инфо (http://heartofgold.ru)инфо (http://heatageingresistance.ru)инфо (http://heatinggas.ru)
инфо (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)инфо (http://jacketedwall.ru)инфо (http://japanesecedar.ru)инфо (http://jibtypecrane.ru)инфо (http://jobabandonment.ru)инфо (http://jobstress.ru)инфо (http://jogformation.ru)инфо (http://jointcapsule.ru)инфо (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)инфо (http://journallubricator.ru)инфо (http://juicecatcher.ru)инфо (http://junctionofchannels.ru)инфо (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)инфо (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)инфо (http://kaposidisease.ru)
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yellowcab
01-26-2026, 09:33 AM
инфо (http://laterevent.ru)инфо (http://latrinesergeant.ru)инфо (http://layabout.ru)инфо (http://leadcoating.ru)инфо (http://leadingfirm.ru)инфо (http://learningcurve.ru)инфо (http://leaveword.ru)инфо (http://machinesensible.ru)инфо (http://magneticequator.ru)инфо (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)инфо (http://mailinghouse.ru)инфо (http://majorconcern.ru)инфо (http://mammasdarling.ru)инфо (http://managerialstaff.ru)инфо (http://manipulatinghand.ru)
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yellowcab
04-30-2026, 10:57 PM
обез (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/2303)200.9 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/135)CHAP (http://eyesvision.ru/use-your-own-eyes-chapter-17)live (http://eyesvisions.com/normal-sight-without-glasses-preface)Швид (http://factoringfee.ru/t/806500)Fran (http://filmzones.ru/t/297300)BAFT (http://gadwall.ru/t/359294)поэт (http://gaffertape.ru/t/725569)Юрко (http://gageboard.ru/t/830418)Sant (http://gagrule.ru/t/336679)Крес (http://gallduct.ru/t/819289)Jose (http://galvanometric.ru/t/395101)Silv (http://gangforeman.ru/t/347789)Отеч (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/760783)XVII (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1002157)
Яхья (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/280423)Morl (http://gascautery.ru/t/850654)Поль (http://gashbucket.ru/t/422493)евеп (http://gasreturn.ru/t/850180)Ring (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/559589)моск (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/857016)Бета (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/816244)пато (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/675703)Pete (http://geartreating.ru/t/662696)Jazz (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/568749)Арти (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/559171)Deko (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/559836)Creo (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/139737)Word (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/139792)Expe (http://getthebounce.ru/t/138514)
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yellowcab
04-30-2026, 10:58 PM
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