Puking-pooping pain...in survival...functioning w/PAIN

[Sourdough]

I may not get this communicated in one post, so ask questions because I really want education about waves of pain that make you faint, you want to vomit, and your bowels want to release, and you are disoriented, PLUS you still have to function.

1.) To what degree if any is it age related......? I ask as when I was younger it seemed the pain stayed in the local area, as in hit your finger with hammer, hit your head on something, drop something on foot or toe. It seems that the pain was only at the injured location, not all over the body. Now it seems I fall on the ice, or today smashed my hand, and I am flooded with waves of pain, debilitating pain that keeps me from taking needed action, for survival.

2.) Shock.....Mild Shock...Maybe. But what can be done quickly, to get past it, or suppress it, if your alone and pinned under something, or in harms way. Maybe it is not mild shock......?

So the question is: you get injured, you see the injury (Cut or smash) can be dealt with later, you have more pressing problems, (maybe your being shot at) but you are confused as to why there is so much pain all over your body, all your joints hurt, you feel like your going to vomit, evacuate your bowels, your faint.........and in-spite of it, you must take immediate action or die.

This is NOT a test: I don't know any answer. But it seems to happen weekly or monthly, way to often.........:(:sad::o



:no:

[Rick]

When's the last time you went to the big city and had a physical?

[crashdive123]

Your last statement really has me wondering. To give you my .02 - I don't know of any correlation between age and the ability to cope with pain, but maybe there is. The older I get, as I guess it is with many others - joints don't function quite the way they used to, so any added trauma may "enhance" the pain felt. Shock can kill you. Recognizing the potential and the ability to deal with it will certainly help. I don't know if I can deal with the pain that I have had to deal with in the past - hopefully I will not have to find out. In my 20's I was in a motorcycle wreck. Managed to find a coat hanger and wire up one of the broken exhaust pipes and drive the fifteen mile back to town. I pulled into my parking stall and fell over. My roomate was there and took me to the clinic. Six broken bones, two dislocations, lots of road rash. I don't know if I could deal with that now. Maybe as we get older we have a better grasp of our mortality than when we are young and think we are invincible.

[Rick]

I wasn't being facetious. Not even a doctor could diagnose you from an email. Perhaps you should take some time out and get a physical and talk over your symptoms with a doctor. How much is your good health worth?

[Sourdough]

I wonder if a person lives a given type of life, if his body learns to withhold the normal shot of Adrenalin, that would help with the pain.

Today I rolled the 800 pound snow machine over and smashed and pinned my left hand under the end of the handlebar. First thing I did was see if my fingers would move, they did, so I was happy, but I still have a machine on top of me, and my left hand was pinned, and fuel was leaking on me. However my largest problem, was as described above.

[Sourdough]

I wasn't being facetious. Not even a doctor could diagnose you from an email. Perhaps you should take some time out and get a physical and talk over your symptoms with a doctor. How much is your good health worth?


O.K. for now lets set that on the back burner. If it was SHTF time and you took a round in the off-hand, or any situation, fell off a small cliff, etc. how do you get past the nausea.

[Rick]

But that's the point. There may be something going on that you need to know about. If you have suddenly starting have problems that are outside the ordinary for you then that should be a red flag that you need to be checked out.

I'm not saying that it's necessarily anything serious just that it needs to be checked.

The nausea is a symptom of some other ailment. Perhaps the pain. But it could also be caused by your Gall Bladder, stress or infection. It's not a what if situation. You are experiencing the problem and need to determine what it is and how to treat it. A trained professional, aka doctor, should be your first choice.

[Sourdough]

I think this needs Inquisition for another reason. We have young people who grew up watching the hero take a round in the leg and keep on fighting, then takes a round in the shoulder and keeps on fighting, and ends with a half hour knife fight, where the hero gets cut in 20 places. Some of these young people think this is really how it works. Yet take an infield hoper in the family jewels, and you soon learn how easy it is to forget about stealing an AR-15 and taking what ever you want. I think pain in a SHTF event would alter the best laid plans. We ain't 9' tall, and we ain't bullet proof.

[Rick]

I don't disagree with any of that. Each person has their own level of pain tolerance based on the ability and amount of endorphins the old brain releases. Some folks can remain calm in spite of some pretty intense stuff while other fall apart at the slightest scratch. I've seen people pass out giving blood.

Some folks really are 9 feet tall. Army Lt. Col. Bruce Crandall comes to mind as do many others. But, as you said, most of us are not. We're definitely not bullet proof.

I've always tried to lay out my plans with the idea that the event would not follow my plans. So I know I'll have to adjust and adapt no matter what my plan is and no matter what the event is.

[tennecedar]

I really don't think it's age. My first experience with what you described happened 2 years ago right after my 30th birthday. It was a small whack to the gut. Whole body reacted just like you described. I've had many fractures, nearly every bone in each hand, 3 ribs, my foot, ankle, jaw, nose a few times... none of them disabled me like that one incident. I went to the doc and she said everything was fine, just got the wind knocked out of me. I disagreed. I've had that. This made me sick and dizzy. Whole body pain. Thankfully I've not felt it since.

[Ole WV Coot]

When's the last time you went to the big city and had a physical?

It could be anything or nothing. I have the usual, bad back, knees, hips & arthritis. They all have their own points of pain. My Doc says I have a high pain tolerance which isn't good because I avoid a checkup because it don't hurt that much. It is not age related, well maybe years of working outside in all kinds of weather cause a few aches and pains but all over, no it's localized and I do what I do because I can push most individual pains to the back of my brain and go on. If I have the old fashioned flu I do feel rotten all over which is normal for any age. Best take Rick's advice and relieve your mind if nothing else.

[Sourdough]

O.K. something is "NOT" getting communicated. We ain't talking the flu, or normal aches and pains. I am talking we drop you on the your back on the concrete from 5 feet off the concrete. We hit you with a 4"X4" 8 feet long as hard as we can. We slam your whole hand in the car door, as hard as we can slam it. We ain't talking little'girlie pain. We put your foot on a stump and smash it with a 10# sledge hammer. Am I communicating....? I am talking about pain where you ain't the BOSS, the Pain is the BOSS.

[Beans]

At 65 I don't think pain is age related. Mind set can get you past the pain.
Personal History can limit your response to pain.

My wife and I was walking along the lake shore a year ago, I slipped and fell into a "U" shaped path leading down into the lake. I caught myself with my upper arms to keep from falling into the lake. The wind was totally knocked out of me, Breathing in very small gasps. Then the breath came back I got up and walked two miles to the car with several broken ribs. No deep breaths was the problem.

3 years ago I slipped on a steel ladder leading to a roof exit and caught myself from falling 20 feet to the concrete floor, with my left arm/hand. Slight pain. Climbed down the ladder using both arms/hands. Two days latter I went to get examined and found that I had tore my rotor Cup, torn the bicep muscle away from the bone and tore the bicep muscle 3/4 of the way in two. After surgery it took 6 months for rehab.

During my lifetime I have been in several motorcycle accidents, street and off road racing, two car accidents, lost a kidney in the USMC, due to very close rocket explosion. A couple of broken ankles, farm related, several broken ribs, toes, broken fingers, (bodyguard, bar bouncer) Survived a couple of hurricanes, a couple of tornadoes, several cyclones, a typhoon and two 1000 year floods

My body looks like a “Frankstien” model with all the scars Etc.

Did it hurt? Yes! like hell, but not to the point I couldn’t function.

Neither time did I feel like I was going to “vomit, evacuate my bowels, piss my pants, faint ETC

IMHO if you have never felt real pain then dealing with it would be difficult.

Although I have never boxed, ( I was involved with martial arts when I was younger) I beleive that dealing with pain is like a boxer dealing with being hit. You never get used to it, but you can work around it.

[Rick]

Are you talking about a hypothetical situation or one that you are experiencing now? Your original post seems to communicate that you have started experiencing that kind of pain. If that's the case then you need to see a doctor. If this is purely hypothetical, what if, stuff then that's a steed of a different hue.

Which is it?

[crashdive123]

Thinking a bit more about this (and I agree with Rick about seeing a doctor if this is a change in your normal recation) I was wondering if it was caused by your bodily functions shutting down or focusing on the injured area. I know the following examples are not specifically what you are asking, but maybe the physiology is similar. Why do people double over and vomit after extreme exercise? Why does a marathon runner that pushes themselves beyond their limits lose control over their bowels? Maybe one of the medical types can adress the physiology of it.

[Pal334]

If I am reading Hope correctly, there are different reactions to pain. In my experience, the puking, bowel vacating reaction to pain seems to be related to trauma to nerves in the incident. The "virtual ability to shake it off: ie: to continue to function at least temporarily has been (for me) due to situation ( engaged in some "survival type" activity). I have not noticed an age factor yet ( I am spry 54 :innocent:), although I am sure that ones physical condition and extent of injury will eventually have impact. And one must never forget the mental aspect, how any times have we heard that a person simple refuses to "give up"? And you are also correct, the movies do seem to give an unrealistic depiction of physical injuries

[fast1]

isn't this a question which i think you can find the answers on wiki answers or yahoo answers

[NCO]

It is all mental when it comes withstanding pain. In a survival situation you know you need to keep moving, fighting or what ever it it you need to do. I know a WWII vet who crawled 20km with five smg (9mm parabellum) wounds in torso to get back from behind enemy lines and to safety. He lived 95yo.
We have a spesific word to describe this kind of mental strenght that just keeps you going: "Sisu". See wiki for more.

[Ole WV Coot]

I just used the flu as an example. I've fallen over 20' from a pole a couple of times. It hurt all over after I woke up. I was around 50 last time and hit on my back. I have been shot, cut and lost the end of my pinky finger and closed the manhole, drove myself to the er. I know hurt all over first hand. I was always told if it isn't bad enough for Workman's Comp then get back to work. I still do things I shouldn't like wrecking ATVs & bikes and hurt all over but I have been able to handle it. Maybe I won't get up tomorrow but I get regular checkups and don't push my luck.

[Sourdough]

Are you talking about a hypothetical situation or one that you are experiencing now? Your original post seems to communicate that you have started experiencing that kind of pain. If that's the case then you need to see a doctor. If this is purely hypothetical, what if, stuff then that's a steed of a different hue.

Which is it?


"NOT" repeat NOT hypothetical......and not paper-cuts type pain.

I need the rodeo, bull riders or others who have weekly or bi-monthly injuries, to help me communicate this.

I now think the age question may have miss led you. It is more of a lifestyle issue, like rodeo, or motocross, my lifestyle causes regular falls, and crashes, and smashes.

My best guess is it is more in the area of: if you are regularly over 50 or 60 years crashing, at some point maybe your body does "NOT" release the adrenalin, or some chemical that mitigates the pain.

[bulrush]

Hopeak,
I say this as in a friendly way, but it's got to be said. If it's more important to shovel snow with the snow machine, than get a physical, then you have more issues than we can help you with here.

The worst pain I've had, where I wanted to vomit (never did) and thought I might pass out (almost did) was with kidney stones. Having never had them before I didn't know what was going on. The pain starts in my flank (to one side of my spine in my back), but can get really bad. It might be a sharp pain but is more often a dull pain, but so intense as to make you dizzy, pass out, vomit, and possibly lose control of your bowels.

Now, I also had the flu over the past 10 days. The flu has many variants, and that means symptoms can come in any combination of: achy joints, nausea, vomiting, dry cough, fatigue that won't go away, headache. So I had the vomiting, fatigue, and headache variant. It doesn't sound like that's what you have.

There is also "gastroenteritis" which means vomiting. Something, often a virus, is making your stomach irritated and you can't keep anything down, even water. Basically you will have vomiting and side effects from that (sore muscles in the diaphragm from vomiting), maybe headache from lack of fluids, perhaps fever. The treatment for this is not to eat or drink anything. The more you drink the more you get dehydrated because you can't keep it down, and your body uses energy to "eject" the water. (I've had this.)

But really, go get a physical, because the same symptoms happen over and over. My vote is for possible kidney stones. Although gallstones might have similar symptoms IIRC.

[Rick]

If you are having that kind of pain you don't need a bull rider to communicate it. You need to see a doctor. Either that or order up some WV liquid sunshine. You'll still be sick but you dang sure won't care.

[Sourdough]

Hopeak,
I say this as in a friendly way, but it's got to be said. If it's more important to shovel snow with the snow machine, than get a physical, then you have more issues than we can help you with here.

The worst pain I've had, where I wanted to vomit (never did) and thought I might pass out (almost did) was with kidney stones. Having never had them before I didn't know what was going on. The pain starts in my flank (to one side of my spine in my back), but can get really bad. It might be a sharp pain but is more often a dull pain, but so intense as to make you dizzy, pass out, vomit, and possibly lose control of your bowels.

Now, I also had the flu over the past 10 days. The flu has many variants, and that means symptoms can come in any combination of: achy joints, nausea, vomiting, dry cough, fatigue that won't go away, headache. So I had the vomiting, fatigue, and headache variant. It doesn't sound like that's what you have.

There is also "gastroenteritis" which means vomiting. Something, often a virus, is making your stomach irritated and you can't keep anything down, even water. Basically you will have vomiting and side effects from that (sore muscles in the diaphragm from vomiting), maybe headache from lack of fluids, perhaps fever. The treatment for this is not to eat or drink anything. The more you drink the more you get dehydrated because you can't keep it down, and your body uses energy to "eject" the water. (I've had this.)

But really, go get a physical, because the same symptoms happen over and over. My vote is for possible kidney stones. Although gallstones might have similar symptoms IIRC.


WHAT am I not communicating, it ain't sickness. Are you people reading what I am posting or just the first sentence. These are injury related. NOT the flu or sickness.

Here is how this works, feeling fine, feet slip out while walking down glare ice mountain to get the mail, and land flat on spine, half second later the back of the head hits the ice. This ain't sickness. You fall 12 feet off the roof, this ain't sickness, You smash your hand, this ain't sickness.

[Rick]

If it's different than you've experienced in the past it may well be. That's why we're saying get checked. We understand you are talking about injury. We get that. But any time your body begins to react differently than it has in the past it's worthy of being seen by a pro.

[wildography]

O.K. for now lets set that on the back burner. If it was SHTF time and you took a round in the off-hand, or any situation, fell off a small cliff, etc. how do you get past the nausea.

Like many other things, what you practice is what you do.

When I get "hurt", have pain, etc... I do a few different things, obviously depending on the situation.

Under the scenario that you describe - you are hurt or sick or in pain, etc ... but, due to the current situation you find yourself, other action is needed.

So, here are a few things that I do... again, depending on the situation/circumstances :

- I shake my head real hard to "clear" my brain of the pain - you see this happen when a boxer or MMA fighter takes a punch;

- I take 2 or 3 deep breaths, hold it for a moment, release, take 2 or 3 deep breaths, then move! ;

- I "jam" my thumbnail into the base of my skull to "re-locate" the pain, thereby "neutralizing" or "re-directing" the "weakness" to another area - it sort of confuses the body/brain for a moment while the adrenaline kicks in;

- I make a "daily" practice of ignoring minor pain, so, my body gets used to "yeah, it hurts, big deal, keep on moving - that's an order!" YOU tell your body what to do, don't allow your body to tell YOU what to do (obviously, you want to use wisdom - blood flowing rapidly out of your body is a good indication that something is wrong);

- learn to "channel" your adrenaline and focus... there is a "thing" in the military - especially in the SEALS and other groups - called "clicking on". Learn to develop that so that you can "click on" at will. Its kind of like "hyper-extending" your focus...

Anyways... those are some of the things that I do; hope that helps...

[Rick]

No offense but can you take a video of that jamming the thumbnail in the base of the brain thingy? I'm having trouble visualizing that and a video would be really helpful.:innocent::whistling:

[Ole WV Coot]

No offense but can you take a video of that jamming the thumbnail in the base of the brain thingy? I'm having trouble visualizing that and a video would be really helpful.:innocent::whistling:

Thumb under the jaw with fingers in the eye or thunk yourself just behind the ear at the base of the skull will help I've been told. Add that to the video, never saw any kill themselves with their thumb before.:sneaky2: Suicide by thumb. We'll make a fortune !!:innocent:

[trax]

Hope, I think PAL nailed it. Injury to nerves related to the initial injury will lead to the nausea etc. Personal examples:

1) I was 19 at the time, so no age relationship. I was affixing a pipe wrench to the steel on a diamond drill rod string and the clutch jumped. Between the power of that drill turning, steel pipe wrench, steel drill chassis and my fingers...well my fingers lost the battle, two crushed fingertips that still don't work right in cold weather. I had that nauseous kind of reaction you're describing.

2) Manyyears later, in my 30's working in a mine, a ton of rock fell on me. I was lucky in that I looked up in time to see it coming and jumped. It caught my leg and crushed my ankle. Oddly enough, people tend to say "but you don't really feel the pain right away" My response is "Oh really? Go try it". But I never had that reaction, just the unbelievably painful (and I too have been told I have a very high pain tolerance level) stabbing pains up and down my lower leg.

Now, in my 50's, I think that age related to injuries is only relevant in that it seems to take me longer to heal.

[Scoobywan]

Another factor that hasn't really been mentioned, is prolonged stress. While working a job that was far outside of my normal routine a while back, there was so many things that I had to change, my whole body went haywire. I'm not talking about a little bit of stress, more like the stress you get when your life no longer looks anything like it did. Pain was much more intense, anxiety kicked by butt, anger was constant, basically every emotion and feeling I had was amplified except the good ones. The only reason I bring this up, is that at the time I didn't know what it was, I did go to the Dr and he couldn't figure out what was wrong, due to me having to go to the Dr several times trying to figure out what was going on I lost my job. The odd thing is that losing my job took away most of the stress that was causing the problems, and I started feeling better within a month. Sometimes what one persons body and mind considers stress is not what other people consider stress. For me the stress of unemployment was not nearly as bad as the stress caused from the mental/emotional/moral stresses of that job. Just another thing to consider, but I would agree with seeing a Dr, just to make sure.

[Beans]

I've fallen over 20' from a pole a couple of times. It hurt all over after I woke up. I was around 50 last time and hit on my back. I have been shot, cut and lost the end of my pinky finger and closed the manhole, drove myself to the er


Ole WV Coot, It is a shame i don't live closer to your area. I would enjoy sitting back and reminiscing with you about our sedentary life styles. :innocent: :wheelchair:

[Rick]

You're as close as a PM....oh, sorry. Private message. Forgot about the texting thing for a minute.

[Beans]

You're as close as a PM....oh, sorry. Private message. Forgot about the texting thing for a minute. LOL My OOPS Laughing out Loud.

Not the same as looking the fellow in the eyes and enjoying something cold to drink.

[tennecedar]

"NOT" repeat NOT hypothetical......and not paper-cuts type pain.

I need the rodeo, bull riders or others who have weekly or bi-monthly injuries, to help me communicate this.

I now think the age question may have miss led you. It is more of a lifestyle issue, like rodeo, or motocross, my lifestyle causes regular falls, and crashes, and smashes.
My best guess is it is more in the area of: if you are regularly over 50 or 60 years crashing, at some point maybe your body does "NOT" release the adrenalin, or some chemical that mitigates the pain.

Rodeo, motocross, rugby, football, whatever the sport you choose. That kind of repeated injury has a toll. Most athletes don't last past 30 or 35 before they can't continue. If your taking falls that are even close to what you said , your lucky to be walking around without a cane.

I believe I do understand the the pain your talking about. The problem is I can't give you the answers you want. I have never done a clinical study of the physiological effects of trauma on 50-60 males. Doctors do that stuff. It's just a wild guess, but one of them might be able to answer your questions.