A simple question.

[doug1980]

Well without getting into politics here I had a question for all of you. We all have seen the way our Country is headed. Some believe it will crumble others believe it will bounce back and many are just plain ignorant to what is going on. No matter what you believe may happen, how many here would do whatever it takes to prevent the worst? We all plan for different scenarios here, and that is great but we also try to avoid bad things from happening. So lets say our great country is on the verge of collapse, would you be willing to fight for it or would you just “Bug In/Bug Out” as you have planned for?

[Rick]

I guess I don't understand your question. Are you assuming some outside force is attacking? If that's the case then I'd have to say that I have no military training, no combat experience so it would pretty easy for me to say yes. I think I'd step to the forefront. I guess I would see myself as some of the resistance fighters in France, Belgium, Luxembourg or some other European country during WWII. At my age I'm not certain what benefit I would be but I guess I would make a mean cook or company clerk.

[grundle]

I have been working on this sort of "total prevention" for several years now. Everyone has their own idea of "prepared" so I will just give you mine.

It is a 100% self-contained system. A lot of people like to describe this as "off-grid". Whatever you want to call it, it would be enough land to support a yearly variety crop that not only could be stored, but the excess could be used for commerce.

It would have to be on a parcel of land that has aquifers and water running through it.

A protein crop would also be managed via livestock and other animals. For this to be a reality I imagine it would have to be based on a small community of people and not necessarily one small family trying to do all the work.

I will probably make the initial land purchase early next year.

As for fighting for the country. I see that as a separate issue altogether. Are we talking civil disorder, or a foreign entity invading? I am all for protecting the land I love and I have no problem serving for my country.

[doug1980]

I guess I don't understand your question. Are you assuming some outside force is attacking? If that's the case then I'd have to say that I have no military training, no combat experience so it would pretty easy for me to say yes. I think I'd step to the forefront. I guess I would see myself as some of the resistance fighters in France, Belgium, Luxembourg or some other European country during WWII. At my age I'm not certain what benefit I would be but I guess I would make a mean cook or company clerk.

Well I had to leave it vague to stay in the boundaries of this forum. It could be anything from standing up to threats within our very own country to foriegn invaders. Whatever you as an individual think will happen. As I said everyone has their own view on what may or may not happen. I know what I think will happen, and I would resist in a heartbeat if it came to that. Way before I would decide to tuck tail and run or hide.

[Rick]

No matter what happens I guess I believe there will be government in place and a standing army. If things were really that bad I'd do whatever they requested me to. My guess is that would be to get the heck out of the way but so be it.

[gryffynklm]

Well I had to leave it vague to stay in the boundaries of this forum. It could be anything from standing up to threats within our very own country to foriegn invaders. Whatever you as an individual think will happen. As I said everyone has their own view on what may or may not happen. I know what I think will happen, and I would resist in a heartbeat if it came to that. Way before I would decide to tuck tail and run or hide.

This forum is a place to discuss all scenarios. You want us to give an answer to an open ended question. From my perspective how do you plan on resisting an economic collapse, how about another Katrina? Are you asking us to answer in the context of Military take over or civil unrest.

"I know what I think will happen, and I would resist in a heartbeat if it came to that. Way before I would decide to tuck tail and run or hide."

If you want us to answer in the context of what you think will happen you need to give us more info.

I have been resisting Natural disasters and economic collapse all my life. I have and will continue to fight that from happening. I am a bit offended that you are implying that preparing for its possibility is tuck tail.

As far as a physical threat to life and country I will do what I must to protect that.

I'm not military and have little weapon skills.

So what were you talking about?

[doug1980]

This forum is a place to discuss all scenarios. You want us to give an answer to an open ended question. From my perspective how do you plan on resisting an economic collapse, how about another Katrina? Are you asking us to answer in the context of Military take over or civil unrest.

"I know what I think will happen, and I would resist in a heartbeat if it came to that. Way before I would decide to tuck tail and run or hide."

If you want us to answer in the context of what you think will happen you need to give us more info.

I have been resisting Natural disasters and economic collapse all my life. I have and will continue to fight that from happening. I am a bit offended that you are implying that preparing for its possibility is tuck tail.

As far as a physical threat to life and country I will do what I must to protect that.

I'm not military and have little weapon skills.

So what were you talking about?


Well see you just answered the question for your scenario and what you would do. I have no specific scenario that I want answered. And if you were offended than I appologize I prepare as you do. But to me bugging out is retreating, is it not? Whether by choice or not, nothing wrong with that if it keeps you and yours alive. The root of this is would you just bug out at the first sign of trouble. Not natural disasters, but failure in the system, be it the Government, civil unrest, economic collapse.

[gryffynklm]

I'm good. Just hard to give a quick answer on an open question.

[Sourdough]

Bernie Madoff is an economic terrorist, and should be sent to Git mo like other terrorist and interrogated to discover who else is involved. It now appears that there are hundreds of these ponzie con-artist who are destroying the country. We need a non-violent revolution to overthrow the economic terrorist, punish them for the destruction of the country, and the money they and corporate leaders have bilked returned to the national treasury. Also incompetent government officials like Hank Paulson should go to jail also...

Thats my story, this country is near economic ruin because of greed and corruption both in and out of government, And our failure to be outraged by these acts is both cowardice, and treasonous by Me, YOU and every AMERICAN.

[doug1980]

Bernie Madoff is an economic terrorist, and should be sent to Git mo like other terrorist and interrogated to discover who else is involved. It now appears that there are hundreds of these ponzie con-artist who are destroying the country. We need a non-violent revolution to overthrow the economic terrorist, punish them for the destruction of the country, and the money they and corporate leaders have bilked returned to the national treasury. Also incompetent government officials like Hank Paulson should go to jail also...

Thats my story, this country is near economic ruin because of greed and corruption both in and out of government, And our failure to be outraged by these acts is both cowardice, and treasonous by Me, YOU and every AMERICAN.

Well that pretty much sums up my feelings as well. Good post hopeak you hit the nail on the head. :clap:

[Sourdough]

Well that pretty much sums up my feelings as well. Good post hopeak you hit the nail on the head. :clap:


It may have crossed the line, about government talk, and it may get deleted, but I am really pissed that we as a nation are not outraged about this.

[doug1980]

It may have crossed the line, about government talk, and it may get deleted, but I am really pissed that we as a nation are not outraged about this.

I agree 100%. That why I believe planning and being prepared is important but so is some action. I would rather not have to bug out or in, but the way it's going that is a very real threat these days. I would rather stand up and fight for what right than live under such oppression, or on the run.

[last one standing]

Wow I'm pissed off to Hopeak how many of our blue collar brothers are out of work due to this white collar greed. Peoples heads should roll bring back public shaming and stoning

[Ole WV Coot]

Well, staying within all lines I'll just say This is one old dog that ain't gonna be whipped in his own backyard.

[crashdive123]

Well, staying within all lines I'll just say This is one old dog that ain't gonna be whipped in his own backyard.

Yep - couldn't agree more.

[Pal334]

Well, staying within all lines I'll just say This is one old dog that ain't gonna be whipped in his own backyard.

Suffice it to say "they " better bring their lunch buckets" if they want a tussle. I don't look for trouble, but never ran from it either.

[SARKY]

I took an oath to protect and defend this country against ALL enemies forgien and DOMESTIC! Even though I am retired from the military, I still hold that oath as valid.
As to fighting or cutting and running....a smart tactiction knows when a tactical withdrawal is in order. And if pushed, I have the skills and historical backround to make Rambo look like a piker.

[wildography]

LOL... some interesting posts; by the way, I agree with you Hopeak... were I President... there'd be a whole lot of corporate leadership receiving BO money that would be cleaning toilets... 'nuff said on that (don't wanna cross the political rule).

The original post/question is very broad; so many what-ifs and variables. However, I often hear people talk about "fighting" against the troops coming to get your guns, etc...

I have way too much respect for our military to try and fight them "straight up"... yes, granted, about 60% of the military are your average "joes", about 20% are about worthless, and about 20% can be "hell on wheels" in any kind of fight... guerilla "warfare", mobility, escape & evasion are really the only ways to "survive" if TSHTF, resulting in TEOTWAWKI, military intervention, and martial law.

But yeah... who'da thunk that our country would end up like it is now? The past few days, everyone is crowing about how the ST. Market is rebounding... hurumph! If I had any money, I'd bet its gonna fall below 6500 before May.

I was at the library today, looking for some "survival type" books; with the library system, here in Colorado Springs, you can see if the books are checked out or if they are available. One thing that I noticed... almost ALL of the survival books are checked out... and some of the more popular one's (like Stroud's) have waiting lists of weeks!. Hmmm... that tells me that people are concerned about the way things are heading...

[Beans]

At my age and health conditions all I can say:

" It will take a hell of a man to whip my butt, however it may not take him long"

[FVR]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/FrankV/150888.jpg


Question answered.

[Nativedude]

I have to preface my responses to the quotes below by saying: "It is interesting to see how different people perceive 'bugging-out'". I see some whom perceive it as turning tail and running. Personally, I don't see it that way at all.

Now, on to the quotes. . .


Grundle wrote:". . .It is a 100% self-contained system. A lot of people like to describe this as "off-grid". Whatever you want to call it, it would be enough land to support a yearly variety crop that not only could be stored, but the excess could be used for commerce.

It would have to be on a parcel of land that has aquifers and water running through it.

A protein crop would also be managed via livestock and other animals. For this to be a reality I imagine it would have to be based on a small community of people and not necessarily one small family trying to do all the work."

Grundle, While your plan is well thought out, in a complete societal break down (every man for himself) scenario, here is something to think about.

You will have to stay on guard over your livestock & aquifers. Water is now a closely guarded commodity. Just imagine how it would be if we had an EOSAWKI situation. It would, most likely, be just as it was in the 1800's. There would be people trying to steal your water and livestock, not to mention, your personal possessions.

And, while you may have neighbors, it will be "every man for himself", at least until things smooth out and come to some sort of Civil order. Look at New Orleans after Katrina!?

So, while being prepared for the worst is the key step, there is much to consider if it ever comes into play! JM2C.


Doug1980 wrote:". . .to me bugging out is retreating, is it not? Whether by choice or not, nothing wrong with that if it keeps you and yours alive. The root of this is would you just bug out at the first sign of trouble. . ."

Let's take a look at the movie "Red Dawn". Now I know it's a movie, but the context is a great example. If those kids had not retreated to the mountains to organize and make a plan before they fought, there would not have been a fight. They would have been prisoners, just like their parents.

As any one here that has been in the Military knows, you must first organize a strategy then you can attack or defend as the situation presents itself. Just as chess players do before they make a move!

[doug1980]

I have to preface my responses to the quotes below by saying: "It is interesting to see how different people perceive 'bugging-out'". I see some whom perceive it as turning tail and running. Personally, I don't see it that way at all.

Now, on to the quotes. . .



Grundle, While your plan is well thought out, in a complete societal break down (every man for himself) scenario, here is something to think about.

You will have to stay on guard over your livestock & aquifers. Water is now a closely guarded commodity. Just imagine how it would be if we had an EOSAWKI situation. It would, most likely, be just as it was in the 1800's. There would be people trying to steal your water and livestock, not to mention, your personal possessions.

And, while you may have neighbors, it will be "every man for himself", at least until things smooth out and come to some sort of Civil order. Look at New Orleans after Katrina!?

So, while being prepared for the worst is the key step, there is much to consider if it ever comes into play! JM2C.



Let's take a look at the movie "Red Dawn". Now I know it's a movie, but the context is a great example. If those kids had not retreated to the mountains to organize and make a plan before they fought, there would not have been a fight. They would have been prisoners, just like their parents.

As any one here that has been in the Military knows, you must first organize a strategy then you can attack or defend as the situation presents itself. Just as chess players do before they make a move!

Yes in case you missed it I have served this country for 9 years. But the fact remains bugging out is a retreat no matter in what context you say it. And as I stated there is nothing wrong with it. Thank you for your response though it seems many here would fight rather than just bug out which is a good thing.

[Sarge47]

"...all ENEMIES, foreign & domestic". Hmm, that's a broad statement. the Government is meant to be us, however it hasn't been that way for a long time, so what? I'll not fire on an American cop or military person if I can help it, they are me. When do you plan on bugging out? When the crap goes down? How many other people will be doing the same thing? Read Wareagle's "Sticky" on "An Absolute Must Read"! If we're talking total anarchy here I don't think any small group, & that includes those made up of our membership will last for very long by the sheer preponderance of numbers. All the cool "Bug-Out" places will be taken, & then they'll come after yours. People will need to band together in large groups to protect themselves from the predators. As for what I'm going to do...well that's N.O.Y.D.B.!

[doug1980]

"...all ENEMIES, foreign & domestic". Hmm, that's a broad statement. the Government is meant to be us, however it hasn't been that way for a long time, so what? I'll not fire on an American cop or military person if I can help it, they are me. When do you plan on bugging out? When the crap goes down? How many other people will be doing the same thing? Read Wareagle's "Sticky" on "An Absolute Must Read"! If we're talking total anarchy here I don't think any small group, & that includes those made up of our membership will last for very long by the sheer preponderance of numbers. All the cool "Bug-Out" places will be taken, & then they'll come after yours. People will need to band together in large groups to protect themselves from the predators. As for what I'm going to do...well that's N.O.Y.D.B.!

I respect that.

[Nativedude]

Doug1980 wrote:"Yes in case you missed it I have served this country for 9 years.

Yes Doug I know you have. I thank and congratulate you for your courage and service of us all!

That statement wasn't directed specifically toward you. It was stated toward the entire membership of the forum.

"As any one here that has been in the Military knows, you must first organize a strategy then you can attack or defend as the situation presents itself."

[doug1980]

Yes Doug I know you have. I thank and congratulate you for your courage and service of us all!

That statement wasn't directed specifically toward you. It was stated toward the entire membership of the forum.

"As any one here that has been in the Military knows, you must first organize a strategy then you can attack or defend as the situation presents itself."

Well you don’t have to patronize me. Seems like everything I post here is moked and disected for what reason I don't know. Maybe to some it's a way of showing how intelligent they are. Guess that's to be expected by a group such as this. Thanks everyone who posted, hope our country rebounds and we never have to face this scenario.

[Sarge47]

Well you don’t have to patronize me. Seems like everything I post here is moked and disected for what reason I don't know. Maybe to some it's a way of showing how intelligent they are. Guess that's to be expected by a group such as this. Thanks everyone who posted, hope our country rebounds and we never have to face this scenario.You don't have to insult the whole membership over this, I didn't get the feeling that Nativedude was being patronizing, but that he was being respectful. Please do the same.

[doug1980]

You don't have to insult the whole membership over this, I didn't get the feeling that Nativedude was being patronizing, but that he was being respectful. Please do the same.

The whole membership I said SOME did I not. I don't even know anymore my original post has gotten so disected and misconstrued, what are we even talking about. Seems the point of a post isn't as important as the way it's worded, if it's spelled correctly, if proper grammar is used and of course it must make perfect sense. Guess I just don't fit in to the niche around here. I'm not one of the cool kids.....oh darn.

[Nativedude]

Doug1980 wrote: "Well you don’t have to patronize me."


Sarge47 wrote: ". . .I didn't get the feeling that Nativedude was being patronizing, but that he was being respectful."

Patronizing, how do you figure that? I was being sincere. I appreciate anyone that fore goes their personal safety for the safety of others. I have many friends that are current and retired Military.

I don't sign in here to patronize anyone on these forums. I am here to learn and hopefully help others that wish to learn.

Thanks for the support Sarge. Appreciate it! :thumbup:

[Sarge47]

Guess that's to be expected by a group such as this.Referring to this, like I said, ND was being respectful. remember, it's hard to tell sometimes just from the printed words the emotion that goes along with it. I think you both have a lot to offer here & need to be on the same side. However that's just my opinion.:cool2:

[doug1980]

Referring to this, like I said, ND was being respectful. remember, it's hard to tell sometimes just from the printed words the emotion that goes along with it. I think you both have a lot to offer here & need to be on the same side. However that's just my opinion.:cool2:

Oh well by that I meant a survival group. Kinda have to be a bit macho for this kinda stuff. That's what I meant by a group such as this sarge. And as always I am not offended nor to I harbor any ill feelings towards anyone here. I do think that some of the "rules" that I stated in my last post are bit extreme and in my opinion petty, but that is my opinion.

[Nativedude]

Doug1980 wrote: ". . .Seems the point of a post isn't as important as the way it's worded, if it's spelled correctly, if proper grammar is used and of course it must make perfect sense."

Doug, How one person perceives something can be completely different from anothers perception. I wouldn't take it personally, if I were you.

Have you ever played the telephone game? It's where you sit in a circle with at least 10 people. One person whispers something into the persons ear next to them. Then that person whispers it to the person next to them, and so on.

By the time the story gets back around to the first person, it is usually, completely different from what the first person (whom started the story) said.

That's just the nature of the beast. Just like you perceived that I was being patronizing.

[Sarge47]

Oh well by that I meant a survival group. Kinda have to be a bit macho for this kinda stuff. That's what I meant by a group such as this sarge. And as always I am not offended nor to I harbor any ill feelings towards anyone here. I do think that some of the "rules" that I stated in my last post are bit extreme and in my opinion petty, but that is my opinion.
I've had a tough week, so maybe I'm seeing things a bit different than you meant; if so I apologize, however I've always had a lot of respect for you. Don't let things bug you too much, oft-times they're not what you might think they are.

[Ken]

By the time the story gets back around to the first person, it is usually, completely different from what the first person (whom started the story) said.

Just listen to testimony at a trial. Five witnesses, five significantly different versions of the same events. I see it everyday. That's why we have words like "perception" and expressions like "point of view" in our vocabulary.

[doug1980]

I've had a tough week, so maybe I'm seeing things a bit different than you meant; if so I apologize, however I've always had a lot of respect for you. Don't let things bug you too much, oft-times they're not what you might think they are.

It's all good sarge and native dude I respect both of you as well. We all misinterpret at times, that's why we having this discussion. We are all on the same side at least I think so.

[Nativedude]

Doug1980 wrote: ". . .We are all on the same side at least I think so."

Yes Doug, I, too, think we all are!! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: