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gryffynklm
03-13-2009, 11:47 AM
How do you bring up survival in conversations?

I'm a bug in with a BOB kind of guy. We live in a small town of about 600 if you include the farm families in the area. There is a larger town about 12 miles away with about 7000. I'm hoping the community will pull together to support and defend each other.

Part of my preparations, being a new guy in town has been to get involved in local activities and meeting people. The subject of survival has been an interesting subject to dance around. I have meet other folks that are preparing for survival. We don't talk details. The subject usually comes up in a conversation regarding the economy and another depression. The effects of the economy has resulted in job losses and business closings locally.

Survival and community has not been discussed yet. There are a few folks I have been discussing a community garden with, well see how that progresses.

crashdive123
03-13-2009, 11:59 AM
IMO it's all in how you approach the topic. Using terms like Bug Out, SHTF, etc will get some nodding their heads in agreement, but probably most thinking.....well - use your imagination. Now, talking to that same group about emergency and disaster preparedness (terms they are familiar with that do not have some sort of stigma attached to them) will probably get a much more favorable response. Couple that with a coordinated effort with your local law enforcement, fire department or emergency planners and you will probably gain tons of cedibility. Your message may be the same, but your delivery may be a bit different. Remember the Civil Defense? My dad was the chief in our town. They mostly helped with traffic control, but if the situation arose where more was needed, they were there. Of course, we were still having more air raid drills in school than fire drills at the time. Ah - the art of diving under ones desk to shelter yourself from flying glass from the 20 ft tall windows.

Sourdough
03-13-2009, 12:25 PM
Remember the Civil Defense? My dad was the chief in our town. They mostly helped with traffic control, but if the situation arose where more was needed, they were there. Of course, we were still having more air raid drills in school than fire drills at the time. Ah - the art of diving under ones desk to shelter yourself from flying glass from the 20 ft tall windows.


Not only air raids, but every aircraft in the air was I.D. off a chart on the wall at the local service station, and he phoned in the aircraft type, and direction to the nearest military base.

Rick
03-13-2009, 01:36 PM
You might also talk to you local city/county Homeland Security Office. Find out what disasters they are currently preparing for and what plans are in place. Every community can benefit from disaster recovery planning and business continuity. As Crash said, if you can build credibility within your community with regard to planning for natural disasters, meth labs, chem spills, etc. then they will be more inclined to listen if you expand that planning.

Even I'd be skeptical if some guy moved into my community and started talking about plans for world collapse.

gryffynklm
03-13-2009, 02:04 PM
Rick said
"Even I'd be skeptical if some guy moved into my community and started talking about plans for world collapse."

Yes, I'm well aware of that. What I have been doing is consistent with what you all suggest. My insurance guy is the fire chief and we do have a local modern version of the civil defense, I think it has a new name now.

Comments like "you know, with the way the economy has been I'm thinking about putting up some canned goods." Ether the conversation goes from there or it ends with a shrug.

I think I'm on the right track with getting involved.

SARKY
03-14-2009, 11:54 AM
After having read the article, he has a lot of good points, but he also has too many holes in his argument.
1: How many of you know and I mean really know your neighbors?
2: If you live in an urban/suburban enviroment how easy would it be (provided you had the cooperation of your neighbors) to fortify your neighborhood?
3: Fortifying: most handgun rouns will easily pass through the outer wall of a wood/stucco/siding home, a highpowered rifle round will go through it like a hot knife through butter.
4: You will find that most people who live in an urban/suburban enviroment simply can't be bothered with preperations and fully expect the govt. to come to their rescue.
5: If you approach these people with your prep ideas they will either think you're a nut job or decide if the SHTF they will just invite themselves over and mooch off of you or decide to attempt to take what you have in supplies.
Yes it's an ugly world out there, but we made it that way.

Rick
03-14-2009, 12:04 PM
Sarky - I don't buy your argument. My home is not fortified and I have no intention of making it so. Not because I expect the government or anyone else to come to my rescue but because I deem that type of risk far enough down on the list that I won't invest my time and resources in it. I think there are far more likely events that can occur so I put my money there.

If I find the need to fortify my home against roving bands of ne'er do wells, I'll have a lot more problems to worry about than welding steel to the side of my house.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying I don't buy into it and don't think it's a likely scenario to prepare for.

By the way, is your home fortified?

SARKY
03-14-2009, 12:17 PM
NO and I have had rounds come through the house. In a perfect world, when these little basturds started their drive by shooting in the neighborhood, rifles would have come out of ever home and shot them to ribbons. No more problem. And do you think anyone else would try that in a neighborhood like that? I think not. I am looking a lessons learned from Katrina when i talk about these things. The neighbor hoods that banded together and blocked their streets from the roving gangs fared much better than the neighborhoods that did nothing but wait for uncle sam to come to their rescue.
Besides I don't live in a bad neighborhood, but there are some bad neighborhoods close by.

Rick
03-14-2009, 12:25 PM
Understand. I've never had that experience. And I doubt I will given where I live. I'm on the very northern fringe of Indianapolis and MOST of the trouble is restricted to the near side (near north side, near east side, etc.).

Ken
03-14-2009, 12:29 PM
Understand. I've never had that experience. And I doubt I will given where I live. I'm on the very northern fringe of Indianapolis and MOST of the trouble is restricted to the near side (near north side, near east side, etc.).

At least you've finally admitted that you're on the fringe of SOMETHING!

Rick
03-14-2009, 12:31 PM
Yeah, I used to have fringe on my thong but it tickled.

Ken
03-14-2009, 12:33 PM
Yeah, I used to have fringe on my thong but it tickled.

I'm not going to comment about your undergarments.

gryffynklm
03-14-2009, 08:38 PM
Sarky and all, The challenge is that we can't know what the scenario is. The same points that you bring up are what has prompted this thread. My preparations are bug in with a bug out back up. I'm hoping to know my neighbors well enough to......
Well at least I'm moving to a lower population density from Chicago suburbs.

This question will never have a straight foreword answer. But everyones input is useful. The likely hood of a situation suddenly changing will result in a change to my answer/response. Flexibility and our ability to adapt to a changing scenario will be in part dependent on the things discussed in this forum. Today its TSHTF and manage to bug in. Tonight the fan is turned on high time to bug out and pray.

I'm new at this subject, I learn and try and practice as time allows. Sad to say I'm probably ahead of at least 50% out there who haven't woken to the possibility of worrying about survival and food living only 100 yards from a grocery store.

Increasing the odds one odd ball at a time.


Fringe, thats so wrong!! It doesn't tickle so much if you ware a holster.

crashdive123
03-14-2009, 09:18 PM
One of the things that my wife and I have done lately, precisely because we didn't feel as though we knew our neighbors well enough, is to form a neighborhood watch - in conjunction with the local police department. We just had our second meeting and we are quite pleased with the response. We are slowly getting to know (a bit more in depth) the people that we have been living around for quite some time.

Rick
03-14-2009, 10:00 PM
Jots down note on holster.

bulrush
03-15-2009, 06:55 PM
Our local police holds an (8 week?) long class, showing you how the police do things: search a car, search a house, local laws. They even take you on a ride along one night. I think the class is 3 hours per night, so that's 24 hours of class instruction.

But I agree with Rick. I'm in a suburban area surrounded on all sides by other suburbs. Not all of them nice. And there would be no reason for me to spend all the money to fortify my house from bullets, because I could use the money for something else. I would have to evaluate every situation to determine whether to bug in or bug out. If the police no longer had control over the neighborhood (a la Katrina) then I would simply bug out to a country location.

old soldier
03-18-2009, 08:42 AM
Our local police holds an (8 week?) long class, showing you how the police do things: search a car, search a house, local laws. They even take you on a ride along one night. I think the class is 3 hours per night, so that's 24 hours of class instruction.

But I agree with Rick. I'm in a suburban area surrounded on all sides by other suburbs. Not all of them nice. And there would be no reason for me to spend all the money to fortify my house from bullets, because I could use the money for something else. I would have to evaluate every situation to determine whether to bug in or bug out. If the police no longer had control over the neighborhood (a la Katrina) then I would simply bug out to a country location.


The problem is that everyone else will be bugging out to a country location or robbing the people who are leaving. you either have to get lucky and leave at the right time or prepare to bug in. the roads will all be closed or blocked by vehicles from people who had the same idea.

When the cops no longer have control and the coke freaks and looters,hungry people realize it,
It will be too late to leave an area,you have to be prepared to hold up in a basement with enough ammo to defend yourself,and enough food, water to survive,toilet of some kind for at least 60 days til just the very strong are still running around, then you have to take care of them. A propane stove like the cheap turkey cooker stoves and a dozen or so propane tanks for a little heat and to make a quick meal. a small vent some place.
A smart person will align themselves with at least 2 other people to watch each others back, but then it will have to be a very strong bond with the agreement that no one else comes in, like it will be the end for everyone if 3 families are prepared to take care of themselves and 10-15 long lost relatives show up at the door with just the cloths on their backs. It'll be hard to turn people away, but that's the way it is, you wouldn't let someone in that had the plague, you know they're going to die anyway, why let them take you along.

SARKY
03-18-2009, 09:45 AM
Sarky and all, The challenge is that we can't know what the scenario is. The same points that you bring up are what has prompted this thread. My preparations are bug in with a bug out back up. I'm hoping to know my neighbors well enough to......
Well at least I'm moving to a lower population density from Chicago suburbs.

This question will never have a straight foreword answer. But everyones input is useful. The likely hood of a situation suddenly changing will result in a change to my answer/response. Flexibility and our ability to adapt to a changing scenario will be in part dependent on the things discussed in this forum. Today its TSHTF and manage to bug in. Tonight the fan is turned on high time to bug out and pray.

I'm new at this subject, I learn and try and practice as time allows. Sad to say I'm probably ahead of at least 50% out there who haven't woken to the possibility of worrying about survival and food living only 100 yards from a grocery store.

Increasing the odds one odd ball at a time.


Fringe, thats so wrong!! It doesn't tickle so much if you ware a holster.
The other side of the equation is knows the limitations of any plan of action. If I lived in a masonary building I would be less worried about rounds comming thru the house if the vermin go on the warpath. However living in earthquake country masonary building tend to crumble and fall on you in an earthquake....this is ungood too! What you really want to do is plan the "What If" game. It goes something like this... what if this happens? then I will do this, but if this happens I will do that. It is a long drawn out senario but does tend to cover all aspects and contingencies. And yes you are very much correct when you say adaptability is the key, but have set senerios in your mind makes for a quicker response time.

How does that fringe affect your quick draw???

Rick
03-18-2009, 09:54 AM
Not bad if I use pencil or pastels but I find it interferes a bit with oils. If I take my time, though, I can still draw just fine.

wildography
03-18-2009, 10:06 AM
RE: the original post: Experiencing Hurricane IKE was a real eye opener for me. My experience of "living through" IKE and the 8 days without power/water showed me the importance of being prepared. That's when I started getting "serious" about learning about survival "stuff".

My "respect" for the "masses" of unprepared people went down drastically after Hurricane IKE. It was "literally" like herds of Lemmings and Sheep.

So, when the subject of preparation comes up, that is one of the examples that I draw on in conversation.

wildography
03-18-2009, 10:15 AM
What you really want to do is plan the "What If" game. It goes something like this... what if this happens? then I will do this, but if this happens I will do that. It is a long drawn out senario but does tend to cover all aspects and contingencies.

Very good point, Sarky. I have about 10 years of security related employment/experience + 5-10 years of re-lated experience... and the "what-if?" "game" is something that I use a lot.

"What would I do if a guy with a gun tries to rob me?"
"When I'm trying to cross that creek, with fast-moving water, what if I slip on that wet boulder?"
"What if I slip and fall on that slope that I'm trying to cross?"
"What if my hiking partner makes a mistake and I have to go get help for him?"

etc, etc...

I play the "what if" "game" a lot... mental preparation is just as important - if not more so - than physical preparation.

gryffynklm
03-20-2009, 03:02 AM
Very good point, Sarky. I have about 10 years of security related employment/experience + 5-10 years of re-lated experience... and the "what-if?" "game" is something that I use a lot.

"What would I do if a guy with a gun tries to rob me?"
"When I'm trying to cross that creek, with fast-moving water, what if I slip on that wet boulder?"
"What if I slip and fall on that slope that I'm trying to cross?"
"What if my hiking partner makes a mistake and I have to go get help for him?"

etc, etc...

I play the "what if" "game" a lot... mental preparation is just as important - if not more so - than physical preparation.

Yep, I guess I play the what if game as well. I call it Zen and the art
of ______. I find myself answering the question What If with more reading and doing.

Sarky, the holster goes over the fringe, besides if your fringe has sparkles, your target will be distracted by the movement. oooo Sparkley!

wareagle69
03-20-2009, 09:49 AM
gryffnklm
i am in a similar lifestyle, i live outside a town of 1,000 close towns are 20 minutes away of 600 and another 10 minutes past that 5,000 then an hour away from a city of 150,000. we are a town of woodsman and farmers, we joined a local bible chapel and have met many of the neighbors over the last 2 years, networking. i beleive in troubled times we will a pull together. we have lunch every sunday with folks from the chapel and talk about hard times ahead, even something as simple as tools that they have and i do not or food i have that they do not, we all agree that the borrowing system is a must in the next few years. i used to live by the mantra if i have to borrow something more than twice then it was time to buy one of my own, but buying a tractor or horsetrailer does not make sense right now when others have one just sitting a around and i have skills that i can trade back to them, the barter system works well for me

gryffynklm
03-20-2009, 10:38 AM
WE sounds like a nice place. I bet people wave at you as you drive by. We had heavy winds go threw about a month ago. I had two cedar trees go down. Next day neighbors going around chainsaws buzzing. I got one small tree cut and stacked. I had to go back to Illinois for 4 weeks. Just got back on Wednesday. The tree leaning against my wood shed has mysteriously been taken off the shed. The long straight stuff was cut to 6" lengths and the branches were stacked in two piles. Talked to my neighbor and he said Ya, had some gas in the saw and wanted to run it out. In my estimation at least three times. He knew I was going to use the wood, perhaps a Lakota flute. It looks like we might swap, He will teach me hunting and I will teach and help him build a log or timber frame cabin up in the holler. Lots of timber here its ether coal or forest industry. I like it here.