Reality check/Wild edibles.

[Sarge47]

I started something like this before, but it apparently needs re-mentioning. Wild edibles certainly have their place but I strongly suspect that most people don't realize the "reality" of W.E.. Here are some points to consider.

1.) There is no guarantee that you will be able to find wild edibles when you need to.
2.) If you clean out an area you end the life cycle of W.E.; you have to leave enough for "re-seeding". This you might do, then the next person comes along and takes what you left behind. Our ancestors failed to realize this and today we have lost many W.E.s as a result.
3.) Wild edibles will not totally sustain you for any great length of time. You will have to add meat, fat, etc.. they will only be good for a short-term survival time.
4.) There is a reason our ancestors worked all their lives to give us the lifestyle that we have today; better health care, medical care, abundance of food, etc..

A lot of people seem to think that it will be really cool if we were somehow thrown back into the "good old days". I doubt it, think about this, if we are thrown back into the 1700's-type lifestyle, where transportation is either foot or horse, and your loved one needs to have their appendix removed, and the closest doctor is 200 miles away, who's going to remove it? You? Think guys! This is the problem that faced TBWN in their foolhardy adventure. They refused to listen & they suffered for it. Aren't we smarter than them?

[Scoobywan]

go back to 1700... no that's a bit much. But if we could merge the respect for the land of back then with the good stuff from now... that'd be great. The biggest problem with now is not that we've learned to live away from the wilderness, but that the mass majority of people have also lost all respect for it. I think people just need to learn to respect the earth again, point #2 in your post is only the beginning.

Now as far as Wild Edibles, I think it'd do people some good to supplement their McDonalds diet with wild edibles or even naturally grown... something about Growth Hormones, and Genetically altered food in abundance scares me. But as you said, relying fully on Wild Edibles even if it's just looking at how outnumbered the plants are as compared to people in any given city/state/country, if everyone relies on W.E., everyone will starve.

[Nativedude]

Sarge47 wrote: "I started something like this before, but it apparently needs re-mentioning. Wild edibles certainly have their place but I strongly suspect that most people don't realize the "reality" of W.E.. Here are some points to consider.

1.) There is no guarantee that you will be able to find wild edibles when you need to.
2.) If you clean out an area you end the life cycle of W.E.; you have to leave enough for "re-seeding". This you might do, then the next person comes along and takes what you left behind. Our ancestors failed to realize this and today we have lost many W.E.s as a result.
3.) Wild edibles will not totally sustain you for any great length of time. You will have to add meat, fat, etc.. they will only be good for a short-term survival time.
4.) There is a reason our ancestors worked all their lives to give us the lifestyle that we have today; better health care, medical care, abundance of food, etc.."

Sarge, I hate to disagree with you because you are one of the more prolific posters on here, but in all of the years that I have been taking groups out into the wilds, I have never come across a shortage of "wild edibles". While we don't teach people to completely rely on plants for sustenance, we do show them how to use wild edibles in conjunction with low protein foraging (insects) or high protein by snaring (small) animals.


Sarge47 wrote: "A lot of people seem to think that it will be really cool if we were somehow thrown back into the "good old days". I doubt it, think about this, if we are thrown back into the 1700's-type lifestyle, where transportation is either foot or horse, and your loved one needs to have their appendix removed, and the closest doctor is 200 miles away, who's going to remove it? You? Think guys! This is the problem that faced TBWN in their foolhardy adventure. They refused to listen & they suffered for it. Aren't we smarter than them?"

Even today, there are people who live in very remote areas, or don't have a vehicle, or phone, so they don't have readily available access to medical or emergency medical services. Yet they live just fine.

We, as well as, friends of ours live in very remote areas (deep in the back-country or high in the mountains). We, live 200 miles from he nearest hospital, which is 3 hours by plane and about 5-6 days by canoe.

And, as the saying goes:
"A man who lives his life worrying about such things, doesn't really live life!"

[Rick]

And with all due respect to Scoobywan, I think there is a much greater appreciation of the outdoors today than there has been for at least several generations. The days of DDT and wholesale dumping of PCBs is behind us. Tree farms now replace clear cutting of old growth timber. I do agree that we've lost a lot of knowledge that our grandparents and parents had but that's the purpose of this forum and efforts we put forth to merger today with yesterday. I wouldn't trade my life style for anything but I don't want to lose equally important knowldge on wild edibles and medicinal plants, either.

[Scoobywan]

I agree Rick, it's getting better with the replanting, less dumping, etc... And some days I look at it and think maybe it'll keep getting better, but other days I look around and wonder if maybe we started to care just a bit to late. I guess the best we can do is to do our part with cleanup and restoration, and teach the future generations. I know for me, I had to find this info on my own, my parents never taught me anything other than "In order to make it you have to have a job, do whatever it takes to keep that job, and save all the money you make". There was no teaching of nature, and the wilderness, it was make sure you're a part of corporate america, and don't worry about anything else. But, I'm kinda getting off the topic of wild edibles a little bit, so I'll shut up now. :)

[Rick]

Realize, too, that wild edibles can be gathered in just about any environment. Wild Man Steve Brill does it in the middle of New York City. Others gather in true wilderness and many of us gather in suburban or urban environments. Know with certainty what plants you are gathering and learn what environmental factors might contaminate that food source where ever you gather it.

[Sarge47]

Sarge, I hate to disagree with you because you are one of the more prolific posters on here, but in all of the years that I have been taking groups out into the wilds, I have never come across a shortage of "wild edibles". While we don't teach people to completely rely on plants for sustenance, we do show them how to use wild edibles in conjunction with low protein foraging (insects) or high protein by snaring (small) animals. Even today, there are people who live in very remote areas, or don't have a vehicle, or phone, so they don't have readily available access to medical or emergency medical services. Yet they live just fine.
We, as well as, friends of ours live in very remote areas (deep in the back-country or high in the mountains). We, live 200 miles from he nearest hospital, which is 3 hours by plane and about 5-6 days by canoe. And, as the saying goes:
"A man who lives his life worrying about such things, doesn't really live life!"
1st, N.D., you don't need to worry about being "straight up" with me, as I'm about to do with you. Just let me state at the outset that i hold all that you do in the highest respect. The problem with what you're talking about is that you're referring only to a small group of people, now multiply that by millions. Back in those old times life expectancy was a whole lot lower than it is now. Yes, there are a FEW folks living in remote areas, but we still have "State-Of-The-Art" medical services available. Air-Ambulances, modern medicine, and so on are readily available that won't be around if the crapola hits the fan! See how many W.E. you can find when it becomes the most sought-after food source & is harvested right down to nothing, with no "re-seeding" stock left. Look at the Katrina after-math as a disaster scenario, now enlarge it to cover the whole country. Right now you say you haven't "run out" of wild edibles; that's because not that many people are looking for them because they're starving.

SCOBYWAN, right on! more people are doing home gardening, & that's important. That really is the answer to a "vegtable & fruit" shortage. Also, remember that many W.E.s are "seasonal" & that it would be very likely for an epidemic to last for years. THINK AHEAD!

[Sarge47]

I just noticed your tag line on your post, N.D.: "A man who lives his life worrying about such things, doesn't really live life". (Rasberry!) Being prepared is NOT about being worried, it is using your brain, the part dedicated to survival. That's a cute statement you've got there, quite novel & poetic, actually, but I don't buy into it. No offense intended, but I see it as possible motivation to keep a person from thinking things through. Just my 2 cents.

[Sarge47]

Realize, too, that wild edibles can be gathered in just about any environment. Wild Man Steve Brill does it in the middle of New York City. Others gather in true wilderness and many of us gather in suburban or urban environments. Know with certainty what plants you are gathering and learn what environmental factors might contaminate that food source where ever you gather it. Now multiply that by half of the population of that area & how long will it last?

[Ken]

Realize, too, that wild edibles can be gathered in just about any environment.

Uhhh, Rick? Sorry, McDonald's and Starbucks don't count. :)

[laughing beetle]

I am interested in wild edibles as far as supplimenting my diet should I be out on one of my forays in the woods for longer than anticipated. But as far using the bounty of Mother Nature in the event of TSHTF...nah, that's what supermarkets and canned coods are for.

[laughing beetle]

Uhhh, Rick? Sorry, McDonald's and Starbucks don't count. :)

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[gryffynklm]

Wild edibles is a new subject for me. I have started a field journal for edibles. This thread has given me a quite bit to think about as i journal. Some I already understood but the thread has emphasized for me the need to remember these things.

1.) Finding wild edibles when I need them requires that I can identify edibles during each season and know its life cycle. Polk for instance is good when young but toxic when mature. Some parts of a plant can be eaten others not. Identify, Identify, Identify.
2.) Be responsible in foraging.
3.) Urban, suburban, roadside, foraging watch out for pesticides. A lot of these edibles are considered weeds by those who didn't plant them.
4.) A sustaining diet needs protein and fats for proper muscle and brain function among others things.

Sarge, As a re-enactor who likes to contrast the life necessities of the 18th century with today I totally agree with you.

Lets face it, to be thrown back to a different time would require a completely different skill set from what Joe Public is equipped with. One of the things that draws me to this forum is the research and practice of those perhaps forgotten skills often with a current practicality or method.

[Norse&Native]

I started something like this before, but it apparently needs re-mentioning. Wild edibles certainly have their place but I strongly suspect that most people don't realize the "reality" of W.E.. Here are some points to consider.

1.) There is no guarantee that you will be able to find wild edibles when you need to.
2.) If you clean out an area you end the life cycle of W.E.; you have to leave enough for "re-seeding". This you might do, then the next person comes along and takes what you left behind. Our ancestors failed to realize this and today we have lost many W.E.s as a result.
3.) Wild edibles will not totally sustain you for any great length of time. You will have to add meat, fat, etc.. they will only be good for a short-term survival time.
4.) There is a reason our ancestors worked all their lives to give us the lifestyle that we have today; better health care, medical care, abundance of food, etc..

A lot of people seem to think that it will be really cool if we were somehow thrown back into the "good old days". I doubt it, think about this, if we are thrown back into the 1700's-type lifestyle, where transportation is either foot or horse, and your loved one needs to have their appendix removed, and the closest doctor is 200 miles away, who's going to remove it? You? Think guys! This is the problem that faced TBWN in their foolhardy adventure. They refused to listen & they suffered for it. Aren't we smarter than them?

I disagree. People subsisted off "wild" edibles for thousands of years. Everything lived off wild edibles until humans started making technological advances. Then we became so far removed from the wild that we can't even live off it anymore. Not only that, many of us are so far removed from it that we don't know what it is, or where it is, or what it looks like, or what will feed us. And plants aren't the only wild edibles. Anything not domesticated is a wild edible. Deer, elk, bear, squirrel, morel, wild carrot, chickweed, etc. A person could survive for the rest of their life off nothing but wild edibles if they wanted to. And health care and medicine probably wouldn't be too big of an issue because they would be a lot healthier. In fact, I think the best thing a person could do for themselves is eat nothing BUT wild edibles. They're pesticide free, hormone free, medication free...and they're free.

Think about THAT.

[wareagle69]

i see that folks are spending alot of time looking for WE sorry only one wareagle and very hard to find

i think we all agree that farming is more efficent that hunter/gather lifestyle but...... most of you are ignorant(not meant to insult) when it comes to wild edibles, sure you may know 10 or 20 but there are hundreds out there that you do not know so you post here with your limited insight based upon what you see when out in the wilds and think "man this would be hard to live on"
As most of you know i study wild edibles very diligently and have only been doing so for a few years, there is so much i do not know, but am fortunate to have found some elders in my small community who have a vast knowledge.I study wild edibles not to eat(but i do like to) but for me it is about knowing intimatley my surroundings when most folks walk into an area they do not look at it in the same way a wild edibles person does. I spent so many years travelling around in many enviroments and never truely got to know one, so now i slow myself way down and learn what we have lost so quickley
but also look at it this way, hwo many really knew wild edibles back in the 1700's? seems like i read all the time how many folks suffered from scurvy when the solution was easily at hand but they had not the knowledge? this is an art form and takes many years to master but it is possible.

[Sarge47]

I disagree. People subsisted off "wild" edibles for thousands of years. Everything lived off wild edibles until humans started making technological advances. Then we became so far removed from the wild that we can't even live off it anymore. Not only that, many of us are so far removed from it that we don't know what it is, or where it is, or what it looks like, or what will feed us. And plants aren't the only wild edibles. Anything not domesticated is a wild edible. Deer, elk, bear, squirrel, morel, wild carrot, chickweed, etc. A person could survive for the rest of their life off nothing but wild edibles if they wanted to. And health care and medicine probably wouldn't be too big of an issue because they would be a lot healthier. In fact, I think the best thing a person could do for themselves is eat nothing BUT wild edibles. They're pesticide free, hormone free, medication free...and they're free.

Think about THAT.
So what? What people did for thousands of years was in a different time period with different skills & knowledge. Today everything has changed, & my post is referring to plants, but as far as wild game goes, well, we all know what happened to the Buffalo. It wouldn't take long for our present population to wipe out most of the wild food source. You posted:

"A person could survive for the rest of their life off nothing but wild edibles if they wanted to."

Yes, ONE person could, but could one or two billion given our society today? That's my question. Answer me that!

[crashdive123]

Yes, ONE person could, but could one or two billion given our society today? That's my question. Answer me that!

Sure......as long as the progressed into farming and ranching.:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Sarge47]

i see that folks are spending alot of time looking for WE sorry only one wareagle and very hard to find

i think we all agree that farming is more efficent that hunter/gather lifestyle but...... most of you are ignorant(not meant to insult) when it comes to wild edibles, sure you may know 10 or 20 but there are hundreds out there that you do not know so you post here with your limited insight based upon what you see when out in the wilds and think "man this would be hard to live on"
As most of you know i study wild edibles very diligently and have only been doing so for a few years, there is so much i do not know, but am fortunate to have found some elders in my small community who have a vast knowledge.I study wild edibles not to eat(but i do like to) but for me it is about knowing intimatley my surroundings when most folks walk into an area they do not look at it in the same way a wild edibles person does. I spent so many years travelling around in many enviroments and never truely got to know one, so now i slow myself way down and learn what we have lost so quickley
but also look at it this way, hwo many really knew wild edibles back in the 1700's? seems like i read all the time how many folks suffered from scurvy when the solution was easily at hand but they had not the knowledge? this is an art form and takes many years to master but it is possible.
I was hoping you'd pop in! So let me ask you some questions:

1.) Are you referring to Canada, or the US?
2.) How many people would this plant life sustain & for how long?
3.) What should we think about to prepare for this possible problem?
4.) Your phrase: "so now i slow myself way down and learn what we have lost so quickley" Speaks to the heart of the matter, we, as a nation, HAVE so quickly lost that knowledge, correct?

Eagerly awaiting your reply.

[grundle]

I like to grow my wild edibles :D

Berry patch in the back, with a garden on the other side. That way I know where to find it when I need it ;)

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

I like to grow my wild edibles :D

Berry patch in the back, with a garden on the other side. That way I know where to find it when I need it ;)

I used to think that digging out a jerusalem artichake patch would destrot it.the truth is they come back twice as thick,if you skip a season they stay thick,and breaking open the soil envigorates thier growth, the "sparseness of wild food" is partly because nobody is is out there turning over the soils.

[Rick]

Let's assume we did have a sudden need to forage for food. Let's assume we have a sustained national drought that lasts for a couple of years. Let's also assume the drought only affects domesticated plants leaving wild plants untouched.

You can bet that some areas would see wild plants wiped out. A large number of knowledgable folks could have a devastating impact on local biology.

Most areas, I would imagine, would see far more human suffering than wild life suffering simply because no one or few individuals possess the knowledge to take advantage of the natural bounty.

Still other ares would readily sustain the human population because of the amount of wild plants required.

The fact is all of you are correct to some extent. But there are so many variables across such a vast landscape that there are sure to be different levels of success and failure.

WE - Once again, my friend, you are right on the money. Those of us that actually use wild foods as part of our normal diet have a pretty good understanding of how much we really don't know. But it sure is fun and tasty learning!

[Sarge47]

Let's assume we did have a sudden need to forage for food. Let's assume we have a sustained national drought that lasts for a couple of years. Let's also assume the drought only affects domesticated plants leaving wild plants untouched.

You can bet that some areas would see wild plants wiped out. A large number of knowledgable folks could have a devastating impact on local biology.

Most areas, I would imagine, would see far more human suffering than wild life suffering simply because no one or few individuals possess the knowledge to take advantage of the natural bounty.

Still other ares would readily sustain the human population because of the amount of wild plants required.

The fact is all of you are correct to some extent. But there are so many variables across such a vast landscape that there are sure to be different levels of success and failure.

WE - Once again, my friend, you are right on the money. Those of us that actually use wild foods as part of our normal diet have a pretty good understanding of how much we really don't know. But it sure is fun and tasty learning!
So you're suggestion for the membership is....?

[Rick]

As usual, sweets and preservatives.

[adalel]

Sarge I agree with you that if a large segment of society understood how to use wild plants and were not too squemish in there uses, the wild edibles populations would be devastated. There in lies the problem, they don't. IMHO maybe 1% might. The people today are two to three generations removed from the land. It times years to learn WE in all four seasons and how to process some of them into an edible, digestible, or nutritious form.

[Sarge47]

Sarge I agree with you that if a large segment of society understood how to use wild plants and were not too squemish in there uses, the wild edibles populations would be devastated. There in lies the problem, they don't. IMHO maybe 1% might. The people today are two to three generations removed from the land. It times years to learn WE in all four seasons and how to process some of them into an edible, digestible, or nutritious form.
Hmmm, good point. But trust me on this, when people get hungry enough, they will take what they want, or try to, from those who have it. I have a personal story about this I might want to tell someday.

[wareagle69]

sarge i have some things to process and think out before i respond but stay tuned

[crashdive123]

Over use of any natural resource will have a negative impact on that resource. There are several (many?) areas of the world where wild edibles are a normal part of the lifestyle. Why aren't the wild edibles depleted? There may be several reasons. Good stewardship is certainly a possibility. Also possible is that the size of the population that is dependent on the wild edibles does not stress them to the point of extinction. Now - add a sudden influx of many, many more consumers and what will happen to the wild edibles?

[Rick]

There have been a couple of "recent" events that have stressed mankind's ability to manufacture food. Perhaps the best example is the Irish Potato Famine. The year was 1845, a time when we would considered wild edibles a significant part of the diet. Yet, thousands still perished and more left Ireland to prevent starvation. We're never safe it seems. The next disaster is just around the corner.

[crashdive123]

Look at the dust bowl from the 30's. Although the concern (about food) pertained to crops - wild edibles weren't growing either.

[Rick]

The little ice age and the year without a summer are both examples. But as you point out, most of the environment problems affect both domesticated and wild plants.

[Nativedude]

Sarge,

I understand what you are saying, but in a situation where we would have an EOSAWKI, there is a HUGE majority of the population that knows nothing about flowers, plants and wild edibles (other than what is available in the supermarket) and wouldn't even know where to begin in harvesting W.E.'s in the wilds. So, I don't believe that there would be an over-harvesting of W.E.'s to the point of extinction. And by the time that the uneducated learned about W.E.'s it would probably be too late for them anyway?!

But, just out of curiosity, I have posted a thread with a poll, to see how many here know their W.E.'s and think that they could sustain off of them. Here is the link to the poll: "Wild Edibles Poll" (http://wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=6091)

Now, here, on a survival forum, we will see just how many people that practice survival and/or primitive living know their W.E.'s by their answer.

And, with a good amount of positivity, I can say "most of the populations of major cities (NY, CHI, LA, H'wood, etc") would perish. Why? Because the majority of the people in those areas live in their limited "do it for me" environments, are helpless, too pampered and know very little, if anything at all, about the wilds and W.E.'s.

Also, if we were to be attacked with any type of nuclear, biological or chemical substance, most likely, the plants would be contaminated (as well as, the water) and we would die from lack of both!! JM2C :)

[endurance]

Before fossil fuels played a role in agriculture 92% of the US population was involved in agriculture. Now it's about 2% of the population. Before fossil fuels played a role in agriculture the planet's population was under one billion, now it's about 6.7 billion. Over half those people came into existance since I was born because of newer farming technologies including fertilizer, pesticides, refrigeration, and modern harvesting & transportation.

When we run out of cheap oil this planet will no longer be able to sustain more than about one billion people regardless of how much knowledge we retain. Using some modern agricultural lessons, like the plow, might make the survival of one billion possible, but without it, as a hunter and gatherer society, the population would probably be one third to one half that number or about the population of the US.

Given that we reached peak oil about two or three years ago, the next couple decades should be rather interesting.

[Pict]

It is a total myth that the redneck revolution is going to sustain itself by hunting. If our current population was forced by circumstances to live of the wild game population it would be gone in a few short weeks.

With the economic downturn, if it gets serious enough, you will see a large increase in legal "meat hunting". If it gets bad there will be an increase in game law violations by legal hunters, taking an extra deer, shooting out of hours, too close to homes and roads etc. Good hunters will push the limits so to speak. Bad enough and people will start outright poaching, out of season, killing to sell, stuffing the freezer etc. All of this is going to seriously affect deer populations over the next five years.

In an end of the world type scenario, when even current non-hunters are trying to kill game you can expect the game population to be wiped out in short order. Currently there is only a fraction of the population hunting a portion of their food under game laws that are mostly obeyed and enforced. When 300 million people are doing full it full time to stay alive it is another matter entirely. Mac

[Rick]

And I dang sure don't want to be in the woods when it happens. I would image anything that moves will be shot at.

[wildWoman]

If you have a thorough knowledge of plants, you actually will know where to find them. You can look at a part of the landscape, see if it's north/south/etc exposure, and tell by the trees that grow there what kind of soil it is and what plant community is likely to be found there.

I don't know if we're better off overall than in the 1700s. Most people in the western world seem to just get fat and depressed from all the leisure time at hand nowadays.
In the old days, life was harder physically but I'd guess that mental or attitude problems that stem from a relatively pampered life were fewer.
Sure, we live longer and die of fewer of the stupid little things because we get whisked to a hospital faster. But when I look at how many people waste away over years from cancer or Alzheimer's, I really don't know if striving to get older and older until the body disintegrates is better than falling ill and dying at a younger age.
I for one would rather forego years of diaper wearing in a nursing home; I'd rather drown or get eaten at an earlier age then.

Seems to me, we just traded in some of the old problems for a whole whack of new ones.
And in a way, what's the point? It all boils down to that our food, shelter and water has to come from somewhere, we all have a need to love and be loved, and feel safe. I don't think we need all this fancy knickknack for that.

[Rick]

To your concern of wasting away from a disease like cancer. I guess the real difference is the ability to garner a much high level of comfort while the process takes place. In the 1700's (In fact in the 1900s in many cases) you simply died a horrible death. At least today you can pass while the pain is adequately managed to ease your suffering. It was bad enough watching my father pass while his pain was (mostly) managed. I can't imagine what it would have been like for him if nothing could have been done to ease his pain even a little bit. But I get your point.

[endurance]

@ Pict, I agree, especially with large game and in states with higher population density. Wyoming and Montana might have a chance of maintaining enough antelope, deer and elk that they could return to normal levels, but the rest of the southern 48 would be in big trouble. I do see small game as a greater constant. Their rapid reproduction rate give them a fighting chance. For that reason, if I could have only one gun, I'd go with a .22.

In Denver there's already a return of the family chicken coop in some parts of the city. Folks are starting to realize that with food prices on the rise, a few egg layers can pay for themselves pretty effectively. It also gives you a constant supply of barter material if it comes to that.

[Rick]

I saw a couple of deer herds out feeding this evening. Seven in one group and five in another. I thought about this thread when I saw them.

We have a breeding population of squirrels at our house. I'm probably the only one around here that would consider them as a food source if needed. But I doubt they would last very long in a real time of need.

I guess you know you're a wilderness survivalist when you see your local squirrels and think, that one's nice and plumb, that one's a little lean......

[Ken]

In Denver there's already a return of the family chicken coop in some parts of the city. Folks are starting to realize that with food prices on the rise, a few egg layers can pay for themselves pretty effectively. It also gives you a constant supply of barter material if it comes to that.

Quite often I drive through a very upscale section of a little town in Rhode Island. The town was the birthplace of the Rhode Island Red. There, in front of one of the many million dollar homes on the road, sits a large cooler in a wagon. In the morning the cooler is filled with about three dozen cartons of Rhode Island Red eggs @ $4.50/dozen. By late afternoon, it's empty.

Remember this guy?