View Full Version : Will To Survive
crashdive123
03-05-2009, 08:52 AM
In the past we've had discussions on the will to survive. The recent boating accident off of the Gulf Coast of Florida (and ongoing search by Coast Guard, and now family members) may demonstrate how the will to survive, or lack of it helps to determine the outcome of a situation. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,504464,00.html
Runs With Beer
03-05-2009, 08:57 AM
Thats to bad about those guys,Goes to show dont let your guard down, try to think ahead. Did they not have a Life raft?
crashdive123
03-05-2009, 09:00 AM
Thats to bad about those guys,Goes to show dont let your guard down, try to think ahead. Did they not have a Life raft?
It was a 21 ft boat, so I doubt it. More importantly, they didn't check the marine forecast.
Stairman
03-05-2009, 09:30 AM
The one survivor should be in church Sunday morning.He lived because he hung on.The others I heard lost their grips possibly dozing off. 21 ft,4 guys,30 miles offshore is nuts anyway and in winter to boot.What a shame.
crashdive123
03-05-2009, 09:50 AM
News reports this morning are saying that one of the NFL players took off his life jacket after a few hours and then drifted away. A few hours later, the other NFL player did the same. The survivor reported that the third man died in his arms.
endurance
03-06-2009, 11:11 AM
From the reports, I think it's safe to assume that it wasn't the will to survive that was lost so much as the ability to grasp reality that was taken away by dehydration and/or hypothermia. I know that the first time I suffered from hypothermia, my thinking was severely clouded and if it weren't for my hunting partner, I would have surely perished. I had my priorities all out of whack, thinking it more important to sit still on the snow so I wouldn't spook the elk I was waiting for than moving and taking action to get myself warm again. After two and a half hours in low teen (F) temperatures, my mind had turned from the logic of "I should get up and move around" or "perhaps it's time to start a fire" to "When I kill the elk, the first thing I'll do is cut it open and crawl inside for its warmth".
Since then, while I've had some close calls, I've managed to keep my priorities straighter and see the early warning signs as far more urgent. I think there's a great deal of value in innoculating one's self to hypothermia through safer experiences in the wild with folks with more experience before pushing the limits in harsher conditions or completely alone. No doubt the boaters had underestimated the risk, failed to gather enough information in advance, were missing vital physical preparations, and probably never thought about "what if" as they went into the situation. It's a tragic consequence for a group of guys that just wanted to go out for an afternoon of fun on the water.
crashdive123
03-06-2009, 03:44 PM
Good post Endurance...
As you said Crash, we have had many discussions about the "will to survive".
And as before...you can have all the will you want, if the "will machine" is broken, frozen, lacking oxygen, blood flow, stuck, frightened and so on...this will to survive is rendered null.
The will alone is not enough to guaranty success...because it hinges on a very fragile machine to produce it.
That's why I posted it with the "buzz word" in the thread title. Always an interesting discussion on the topic.
The question is how can one man survive and make the right choice when the four were all put in the same situation?
It has to have something to do with the brain and prior life experiences. What makes one man take off his vest and float off, then another take off his vest and float off, while one keeps on his vest and floats to live.
Is it luck? Fate? Experience?
One of the early reports I read said the survivor had a life jacket on. I know they showed some pics of floating life jackets. No one thinks it will happen to them and when it does, it's often too late. Life jackets save lives but only if you use them.
crashdive123
03-06-2009, 07:13 PM
According to reports, all four were wearing life jackets. Some just decided to remove them.
people will often remove a life jacket because interferes with their ability to swim, they're designed for the person to float, face up and they become convinced that they'd have a better chance trying to swim to safety. Gives relevance to the term 'dead wrong'
shankfisher
03-07-2009, 03:53 PM
A good friend of mine is a counselor for the VA. Everyday he deals with vets who have PTSD. Hey confirms what many say about the survival instinct -- it's what you take into a situation that is important. If you are well-adjusted, optimistic, and a problem solver, you can make it through incredible hardship. If you are unrealistic, have never faced hardship, or forget why you are there, you fall apart. In police and military work you are "battleproofed" to help you adapt to real world conditions. You have to be trained to make snap decisions, suffer without food, or keep going when you get a charlie horse. If you really want to develop a will to survive, you have to go the place where it hurts, and face the pain and not turn back. Many people will never go there, and stay in denial about what they are facing. Surprisingly, these NFL players likely were at that spot. We won't know what happened for awhile, but I surmise from the reports that they lost the ability to face the hurt, and just let go.
endurance
03-07-2009, 10:29 PM
I think the survivor is going to have his toughest battle ahead. The families of those who died will resist accepting that their sons gave up the fight. The media will try to get interview after interview, putting questions into his mind. He probably has better than 50/50 odds on developing PTSD at this point. My prayers go out to the survivor.
Shank, have you read Deep Survival? It brings up a lot of the same aspects you brought up. One of my favorite books of all time because it addresses the psychology of survival and why humans so often do the opposite of what makes sense to an outside observer; like taking off their life vests and drifting away or swimming away from the boat...
shankfisher
03-07-2009, 11:47 PM
Shank, have you read Deep Survival?
No, I haven't, but I will put it on my list. Yes the survivor will have a tough time. He may crack up. He may recover, meet the beast, and emerge tougher than ever. I'd say 50/50, not knowing the guy at all. PTSD is an ugly, ugly thing to deal with. My old army buddies are getting plastered big time -- it's even worse when you can't fight back. These guys that never fired in anger, but watched their pals die in roadside bomb are just being crushed. Helplessness and guilt can be a b**ch.
Styric
03-08-2009, 12:11 AM
I am a member of a spearfishing forum and everyone over that way said the ocean was super rough that day. These guys dropped anchor and when the waves and swells pushed the boat up it flipped the boat because the anchor line was not long enough. The survivor hung on the whole time. One of the missing had swam under the capsized boat to retrieve life jackets for everyone. Due to the crazy swells and waves the three missing had been broken free of the boat and drifted away. Very sad!
SARKY
03-08-2009, 01:09 PM
It also comes down to arrogance and stupidity!
1: taking a boat that small out that far
2: not paying heed to the weather (mother nature WILL bite you in the ***)
3: no emergency beacon on board (these guys make HOW MUCH MONEY, and they were too cheap to purchase an emergency beacon!!! They could have been picked up an hour after the incident)
4: not being familiar with all aspects of the boats abilities ( yes it is designed not to sink but what will it do? )
Ah, come on, Sarky. It won't happen to me.
RunsWithDeer
03-08-2009, 05:43 PM
3: no emergency beacon on board (these guys make HOW MUCH MONEY, and they were too cheap to purchase an emergency beacon!!! They could have been picked up an hour after the incident)
I think beacons should be required, I have one and always have it with me on my 22' boat I use for Lake Michigan. Seen lots of days when weather is nice and forecast is good, but with the right shift in wind it can get rough real fast.
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