Experience with packs

[Geronimo!]

Do you have either a really good experience or really bad experience using internal/external frame backpacks? I'm curious to see what brands and sizes have the best value.

What setting was it used in? What happened? How did you deal with it? How did the bag deal with it?

I'll share my first experience with packs.

Last year, I headed out to the smoky mountains for a week. I needed to buy a large (at least 5000 ci) bag to take. I didn't have a lot of money, but found a cheap $30, 5,000 c.i. internal frame backpack online. It had no brand and was made in China, so I didn't expect much in terms of quality. During that trip I learned not to be so quick to judge.

Surprisingly, the pack did its job, quite well. On the third day the threading from one of the straps that held another strap in place was torn. I had brought my sewing kit, so i sewed the strap back on tight and was good to go. I didn't have another incident with my pack the whole trip.

When I got home, I figured I'd better be safe than sorry and began reinforcing all the stitching I could. It seems to have work. I haven't had a torn strap again. I now use this bag for every trip I take.

I'm going to run this bag into the ground and I'm confident it can take it. If I get another year out of it, I will be happy. I'll have spread my costs over the trips enough to cost about $1.50 per trip. Not bad at all.

[crashdive123]

Sounds as though you found a bargain. Glad it worked out for you. As far as internal vs external frames - it's going to depend a lot on personal preferance and the conditions you will be hiking in. I have owned both and have never been disappointed. For me, I don't get into extreme conditions any longer, so either works just fine.

[SARKY]

The big difference brtween internal and external framed packs is this. An external framed pack holds your load away from your body, good for ventilation bad for your center of gravity. This is no problen if you are on trails. If you are off trail the internal framed pack keeps your gear closer to your center of gravity and won't throw your body off as you are climbing over things.
I started out with an ALICE pack with frame for my BigBOB, it worked great. Then I got a Kifaru pack (yes I know they are pricey, but they guarantee them for life and they guarantee that if you can carry it the pack will hold it) , It is the most comfortable pack I've ever owned.

[Geronimo!]

Then I got a Kifaru pack (yes I know they are pricey, but they guarantee them for life and they guarantee that if you can carry it the pack will hold it) , It is the most comfortable pack I've ever owned.

I just checked out their site. To order one, you input your height, weight, etc. Do they custom fit them?

[Aurelius95]

I picked up a Gregory Whitney pack at an REI scratch and dent sale 3 or 4 years ago. It retailed for around $350, and I got it for $75 because someone returned it dirty. It's done a great job for me and you can't beat the price. Being that my choices were limited at the scratch and dent, I probably would have chosen a smaller bag, as 5000 ci is too big for a weekend trip. But for the price, I'm quite happy.

[chiye tanka]

I've got an Osprey Aether 60, it's an internal and I love it. They have updated it and it's even better now. Check out their web site.

[SARKY]

I just checked out their site. To order one, you input your height, weight, etc. Do they custom fit them?
Sort of, the sizes of their packs are plus or minus depending on your torso height. I've got the Navigator with an E&E pack dock and locked to it. Total cubes 5000. All of my basic survival gear is in the E&E pack so if I want or need to dump the navigator I can still have all my survival basics with me. I put a camelbak 3 liter bladder in the Navigator and a 2liter bladder in the E&E pack. The dock and lock system is well thought out and works great!

[Runs With Beer]

I like and use a Med. Alice pack, I have the frame but seldom use it. It works out good for my sit. And is super tough.

[Mike00006]

Another alice pack dude here. I have had mine for about 6 years now and there isn't as much as a tear in it. That thing has been tied to the back of a quad, dragged (obviously), been soaked in mud (mudding is fun), has about 100 miles of hiking on it (never really liked to hike with it though, the straps get annoying after a few hours), and has been the pack that I carried everything in when I go hunting or camping. Heck, the pack is sitting downstairs with my goose down GI issue mummy bag strapped to it and full of the junk I take with me. Just begging to go out sometime.

They are super tough, you could use a frame if your carrying alot, but I never saw the need to buy one. Might make it more comfortable with the use of kidney pads though.

Another fun thing I did with it was played in an airsoft simulation with it, carried it around for about 15 hours laced to my LBV with my 1990s ranger loadout, carried ammo and extra mags in it, as well as a laptop that I found that was for extra points. Without the frame you just cant beat the weight, plus you have 3 outer pockets that will hold a water canteen or 2 boxes of 12 gauge shells easily, as well as a large inner compartment for clothes, and a smaller compartment for the tools you need to to get to quick.

I wouldn't trade it for anything. Its a medium pack BTW

[Nativedude]

Geronimo wrote:". . .but found a cheap $30, 5,000 c.i. internal frame backpack online.

My biggest question is: "Why does anybody need a 5,000 c.i. backpack?

Why not just put backpack straps on your house and carry it with you!? :triage: And when you get back from carrying either one you can schedule a series of adjustments with your favorite Chiropractor! :)

[crashdive123]

My biggest question is: "Why does anybody need a 5,000 c.i. backpack?

Why not just put backpack straps on your house and carry it with you!? :triage: And when you get back from carrying either one you can schedule a series of adjustments with your favorite Chiropractor! :)

I was thinking along those lines as well. Well kind of. I was thinking how can anybody go out with such a small pack!

[Nativedude]

Crashdive123 wrote:"I was thinking along those lines as well. Well kind of. I was thinking how can anybody go out with such a small pack!"

ROFLMAO :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Let me guess Crash, your pack has everything in it including the kitchen sink??? :scared: :wheelchair: :noway: :triage:

[crashdive123]

Kitchen sink???? Man, I need a bigger pack!

[Geronimo!]

My biggest question is: "Why does anybody need a 5,000 c.i. backpack?

Why not just put backpack straps on your house and carry it with you!? :triage: And when you get back from carrying either one you can schedule a series of adjustments with your favorite Chiropractor! :)

That's a good question. While I usually have a hard time filling the whole thing on weekend trips, I have no problem filling it on a week long trek.

I also use it when I'm not hiking or backpacking. I'm a college student and don't really have a house to carry with. Although, I could take the car! :thumbup:
When I leave college for breaks, I have to be able to pack a bag that will last me a month, so in addition to the regulars like clothes and toiletries, I'll pack my books, some food, and anything else I'll need when I'm away from school.

[Norse&Native]

I prefer frameless packs. It is easier for me to carry weight in a frameless pack with a good waist strap and good hip padding. Frame packs, in my opinion, tend to be too large and are hard to run with and are more difficult to navigate small spaces with. I used my pack from last fire season because it was comfortable, it was broken in, it's been tested in rugged places and I know it's sturdy, and it's got enough room for everything I need. Frame packs also tend to be larger, and I tend to want to put more into them even if I don't need what's going in.

[Rick]

are hard to run with

Run?! You are clearly doing something wrong! If you see me running you can rest assured I've just discovered I'm #2 on the food chain. I can't think of any other reason to expend that kind of energy. Run.........silly boy.

[crashdive123]

So it's the pack that is making it hard for me to run. Cool. I alway figured it was cuz I was old and over weight.

[RichJ]

"Why would anyone need a 5000 ci pack?"

Get this. I'm 5'4" and about 135 lbs. and carry a 6500 ci external frame pack. Crazy you say? Not at all. I regularly hike 10-20 miles on trail and a little off trail without any trouble. The pack itself is a couple of aluminum tubes, some padding, and a big piece of nylon that together don't weigh much at all; you can pick it up empty with one finger. The difficult thing is having the discipline to not stuff it to the gills and carry 60lbs worth of stuff you really don't need. I choose an oversized pack because I hate having things dangle and "loose" on the outside. I can put every single thing I carry inside without having to strap anything on to the outside where it will snag on something, get wet if it rains, or create an unstable/ off center load. That includes the two main large items you will carry, the tent and sleeping bag. Usually people have to strap these outside, a no-no in my book. Someone else posted they keep their goose down bag this way. If it rains, its going to get wet, even if it's in a nylon stuff sack, and goose down is impossible to dry once it gets wet. My pack is a coated material that is light rain resistant, but in a downpour water will seep in through the zippers. I keep my tent and bag in water resistant compression sacks inside my bag, and if it rains hard, I have a coated rain proof pack-cover that keeps everything nice and dry. If you spend any time in the woods, it will rain and you don't want to get your stuff wet. This system works well for me and my total pack weight including food and water is around 35 lbs. That includes water filter, extra change of clothes, stove/pot, flashilights and everything. The extra size also gives me a little more room to stuff really bulky items like a fleece pullover or other winter gear you would want to keep dry and tight. Just because you carry a large pack doesn't mean you have to carry huge weight.

[MatthewnOK]

"Why would anyone need a 5000 ci pack?"

Get this. I'm 5'4" and about 135 lbs. and carry a 6500 ci external frame pack. Crazy you say? Not at all. I regularly hike 10-20 miles on trail and a little off trail without any trouble. The pack itself is a couple of aluminum tubes, some padding, and a big piece of nylon that together don't weigh much at all; you can pick it up empty with one finger. The difficult thing is having the discipline to not stuff it to the gills and carry 60lbs worth of stuff you really don't need. I choose an oversized pack because I hate having things dangle and "loose" on the outside. I can put every single thing I carry inside without having to strap anything on to the outside where it will snag on something, get wet if it rains, or create an unstable/ off center load. That includes the two main large items you will carry, the tent and sleeping bag. Usually people have to strap these outside, a no-no in my book. Someone else posted they keep their goose down bag this way. If it rains, its going to get wet, even if it's in a nylon stuff sack, and goose down is impossible to dry once it gets wet. My pack is a coated material that is light rain resistant, but in a downpour water will seep in through the zippers. I keep my tent and bag in water resistant compression sacks inside my bag, and if it rains hard, I have a coated rain proof pack-cover that keeps everything nice and dry. If you spend any time in the woods, it will rain and you don't want to get your stuff wet. This system works well for me and my total pack weight including food and water is around 35 lbs. That includes water filter, extra change of clothes, stove/pot, flashilights and everything. The extra size also gives me a little more room to stuff really bulky items like a fleece pullover or other winter gear you would want to keep dry and tight. Just because you carry a large pack doesn't mean you have to carry huge weight.

Why don't you hike on over to the intro section
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=14
and tell us a bit about yourself

Heh! I did it crash! :lol::lol::lol: do i get a cookie?

[SARKY]

So it's the pack that is making it hard for me to run. Cool. I alway figured it was cuz I was old and over weight.

Well........I didn't want to say anything. Put the doughnut down and step away from it.

[crashdive123]

Heh! I did it crash! :lol::lol::lol: do i get a cookie?

Sorry, no cookies. I've got half a dougnut left though.:lol:

[bulrush]

I used an internal frame, mid-price backpack that could be converted to luggage. Shoulder straps were nice and padded. As soon as I figured out how to put more weight on the hip straps, my shoulders thanked me. It was a great pack, no problems with it. I still use it for luggage and (car) camping.

You should carry the weight on your hips using your hip straps, not your shoulders. The shoulders only serve to balance the load and keep the load in place. That's what worked for me anyhow.

[Norse&Native]

Run?! You are clearly doing something wrong! If you see me running you can rest assured I've just discovered I'm #2 on the food chain. I can't think of any other reason to expend that kind of energy. Run.........silly boy.

Shoot, that ain't nothin'.

[sh4d0wm4573ri7]

My old standby:
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/sh4d0wm4573ri7/crafts/RedCloud5600_Khaki.jpg
And my newest addition:
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/sh4d0wm4573ri7/crafts/SnugpackRocket70ltr.jpg

[crashdive123]

My old standby:
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/sh4d0wm4573ri7/crafts/RedCloud5600_Khaki.jpg
And my newest addition:
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/sh4d0wm4573ri7/crafts/SnugpackRocket70ltr.jpg

Is that top one a Kelty? I've got the Kelty Redcloud 5600 and like it.

[Nativedude]

Boy, y'all wouldn't survive my course. For my basic course All you get to take is:

1.) A bedroll
2.) A water container
3.) A metal knife

For my hardcore survival trips you get to take:

Zip! Zero!! Zilch!!!

You use only what is in Mother Nature for 7 or 14 days.

[Geronimo!]

Boy, y'all wouldn't survive my course.

Until I came across crash in the bush washing his face in a sink.

[crashdive123]

Until I came across crash in the bush washing his face in a sink.

Just waiting for the fuel truck.....RV ran out of gas.:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[RichJ]

"Boy, y'all wouldn't survive my course. For my basic course All you get to take is:

1.) A bedroll
2.) A water container
3.) A metal knife"

You teach a course where it's necessary to learn the skills without an adequate kit. But once you are confident you can survive without a kit, I say gear up! I know I can survive, but I don't want to just survive, I want to live as comfortable as my conditions will allow me to. That means bringing whatever kit I can comfortably carry and and exploiting whatever else I can along the way. I know I could survive on worms in a lean-to if necessary, but I'd rather bring along a few MRE's and a tent.

[wildography]

"Boy, y'all wouldn't survive my course. For my basic course All you get to take is:

1.) A bedroll
2.) A water container
3.) A metal knife"

You teach a course where it's necessary to learn the skills without an adequate kit. But once you are confident you can survive without a kit, I say gear up! I know I can survive, but I don't want to just survive, I want to live as comfortable as my conditions will allow me to. That means bringing whatever kit I can comfortably carry and and exploiting whatever else I can along the way. I know I could survive on worms in a lean-to if necessary, but I'd rather bring along a few MRE's and a tent.

I think that is the whole point of this entire forum... to learn the basic fundamentals of survival - even without a water container, a bedroll, and a knife - and then add your skills, knowledge, equipment, etc from there... you can have a fully stocked, fully loaded F-150 carrying every survival thing that you need... but if you find yourself in a situation where you get separated from your supplies - the only thing that you have left is your body and your brain...

Try to skip the fundamentals of survival - or take "short-cuts" - and you (and/or your family & friends) may pay the price...

Once you get the fundamentals down, then you can start depending on things that make survival easier and more comfortable... like using firearms, fire-starters, GOOD "survival" food, packs, etc...

Me, there are some areas of the whole survival thing that I'm a rank novice at... there are a few other areas - like security, the use of weapons, and stalking - that I consider myself to be an expert in...

that's why me - and a lot of others are here... to learn stuff that we're not good at, to improve upon those things that we are good at, and to help each other learn... learn what to do and what NOT to do...

[RichJ]

but this was a thread wanting to know about packs, not a thread about not needing a pack because you can survive without one. Maybe I took it the wrong way but what I heard was a dig on guys who gear-up instead of going minimalist. It's all good in the woods man!

[crashdive123]

Nah. No diggs. Native Dude just walks around barefoot in the snow. Rough winter:cold:

[SARKY]

Look, it comes down to this, you carry what makes you feel comfortable. Can I start a fire with nothing but what nature gives ?....Yes! Do I want to spend hours making cordage, finding a fire board, a bow, a drill, etc.? ...NO! Do I like foraging? Yes I love it! Do I like being hungry? NO! Just because I caryy it in my gear doesn't mean I am dependent on it, it means I have options.

[Nativedude]

Crashdive123 wrote:"Nah. No digs. Native Dude just walks around barefoot in the snow. Rough winter:cold:

Crash is right, no digs intended, just surprised that some on the forums carry so much gear.

I have multitudes of students that show up with 5, 6 & 7K c.i. pack all the time. I weed through their packs and whittle down the gear to just the "necessary" items. And while they (my students) grouse about not being able to take their "batt. operated heated socks". Once I get them in the back-country and show them they don't need their, 'proverbial' various security blankets, and they get more comfortable at their ability to sustain and survive with the "bare minimum" they are cool with it.


RichJ wrote:"but this was a thread wanting to know about packs, not a thread about not needing a pack because you can survive without one. Maybe I took it the wrong way but what I heard was a dig on guys who gear-up instead of going minimalist. It's all good in the woods man!"

Rich, once you get to know me and read other posts of mine, you'll come to see that I live very simple, rustic, primitive (aboriginal) lifestyle. But I do have a military fanny pack (about 200 c.i.) with survival gear in it that I use to demonstrate to students about gear that they can carry, if they so choose, with them to survive.

As my tagline says: "Doing More With Less!" :) :) :)

[RichJ]

peace be with you.