Yeah I know another Scenario.

[doug1980]

You decide to take a short day hike on a well-established trail near your home in Alaska. It’s late spring, temperature is 65*F but can dip into the 40’s at night and not a cloud in the sky. The trail meanders through the forest popping in and out of meadows with the mountains in view. You arrive at the end of the trail but decide to go a bit further up the mountain. You cut your own trail through more forest until it opens up into a huge meadow. Just ahead you see a waterfall and decide to hike to it. Halfway there you run into a lake blocking your way. You have no map or compass but decide to go around the lake, sure you will be able to find the trail you just made. You make it around the lake and to your destination. You decide to head back because you only packed for a day hike so you have no real food or shelter. You make your way around the lake and begin looking for the path you made on the way in. No luck finding the path but you head into the forest assuming you can’t be far off and are sure you will run into the established trail. After hiking for about 3 hours it finally starts to set in that you are not as close to the trail as you thought, your lost. On top of that it begins to rain. You have no shelter, no food, and no water. You do have a knife and your basic survival kit including fire steel, signal mirror, iodine tablets, survival blanket, snares and your canteen. Keep in mind when I say you, it’s not really you, it would be an average occasional hiker with minimal skills and knowledge. What do you do? Stay and wait for rescue? But you told no one about your trip and wont be missed for at least a week. Try to find your way out? But you have no idea where to go, you are lost with no compass or map. So what do you do?

[klkak]

You decide to take a short day hike on a well-established trail near your home in Alaska. It’s late spring, temperature is 65*F but can dip into the 40’s at night and not a cloud in the sky.......Just ahead you see a waterfall and decide to hike to it......,your lost. On top of that it begins to rain.

You must be standing under the waterfall or someone is peeing on your head and you just think its raining......:D

[doug1980]

You must be standing under the waterfall or someone is peeing on your head and you just think its raining......:D

Well when you started the hike it was a beautiful sunny day. After about 8 hours of hiking the clouds rolled in and it rained. Come on man where's your imagination. :D

[crashdive123]

I guess it is true......if you don't like the weather, wait a few minutes, it'll change.

[doug1980]

I guess it is true......if you don't like the weather, wait a few minutes, it'll change.

Everyone is a critic. :rolleyes: So picky. :D

[nell67]

I guess it is true......if you don't like the weather, wait a few minutes, it'll change.


From crash's description doug,you must be back in Indiana!

[doug1980]

From crash's description doug,you must be back in Indiana!

Kinda what I was thinking.

[crashdive123]

Not to hijack your thread (I guess we already did) but when I lived in Seattle, the rule of thumb was - If you can't see Mt. Rainier it's raining.....if you can see Mt. Rainier it's about to rain.


Now back to the thread.

You decide to take a short day hike on a well-established trail near your home in Alaska. It’s late spring, temperature is 65*F but can dip into the 40’s at night and not a cloud in the sky. The trail meanders through the forest popping in and out of meadows with the mountains in view. You arrive at the end of the trail but decide to go a bit further up the mountain. You cut your own trail through more forest until it opens up into a huge meadow. Just ahead you see a waterfall and decide to hike to it. Halfway there you run into a lake blocking your way. You have no map or compass but decide to go around the lake, sure you will be able to find the trail you just made. You make it around the lake and to your destination. You decide to head back because you only packed for a day hike so you have no real food or shelter. You make your way around the lake and begin looking for the path you made on the way in. No luck finding the path but you head into the forest assuming you can’t be far off and are sure you will run into the established trail. After hiking for about 3 hours it finally starts to set in that you are not as close to the trail as you thought, your lost. On top of that it begins to rain. You have no shelter, no food, and no water. You do have a knife and your basic survival kit including fire steel, signal mirror, iodine tablets, survival blanket, snares and your canteen. Keep in mind when I say you, it’s not really you, it would be an average occasional hiker with minimal skills and knowledge. What do you do? Stay and wait for rescue? But you told no one about your trip and wont be missed for at least a week. Try to find your way out? But you have no idea where to go, you are lost with no compass or map. So what do you do?

[klkak]

You decide to take a short day hike on a well-established trail near your home in Alaska.

It’s late spring, temperature is 65*F but can dip into the 40’s at night and not a cloud in the sky.

The trail meanders through the forest popping in and out of meadows with the mountains in view. You arrive at the end of the trail but decide to go a bit further up the mountain. You cut your own trail through more forest until it opens up into a huge meadow.

Just ahead you see a waterfall and decide to hike to it. Halfway there you run into a lake blocking your way. You have no map or compass but decide to go around the lake sure you will be able to find the trail you just made.

You make it around the lake and to your destination. You decide to head back because you only packed for a day hike so you have no real food or shelter. You make your way around the lake and begin looking for the path you made on the way in. No luck finding the path but you head into the forest assuming you can’t be far off and are sure you will run into the established trail.

After hiking for about 3 hours it finally starts to set in that you are not as close to the trail as you thought. You are lost. On top of that it begins to rain. You have no shelter, no food, and no water. You do have a knife and your basic survival kit including fire steel, signal mirror, iodine tablets, survival blanket, snares and your canteen. Keep in mind when I say “you”, it’s not really you. It would be an average occasional hiker with minimal skills and knowledge.

1. What do you do? (Find a big cotton wood tree and bash your forehead against it in the hopes it'll knock some since into you.) (joking) Stop and sit down. Take a swallow of water. Look around. Past the brush and tree's. Look at the lay of the land. Look at the mountains. Figure out where that lake and waterfall is. While you are doing this: listen.....listen for sounds of vehicles. This could give you and indication of which direction the trail head is. In Alaska as in many locations it is not always necessary to know the exact trail but the general direction.

2. Stay and wait for rescue? (But you told no one about your trip and won’t be missed for at least a week.) If your not going to be missed, this would be a bad idea.

3. Try to find your way out? (But you have no idea where to go. You are lost with no compass or map.) If you can hear the sound of vehicles. Then head in that direction. If you don't hear anything. Then find your way back to the lake. Once you get there. Take your time. Try to find the spot on the lake where you turned to go around it. Once you find that spot, stop. Turn your back on the water fall and look at the ground. You are looking for signs of your passing. If not distinct boot tracks then grass laid over with the tips of the blades pointing in the direction of the lake. If you find such sign then follow it across the big meadow back to the point you came out of the woods. If not. Go across the big meadow and look back at the water fall. Find a place at the edge of the woods where when looking at the water fall it looks the same as it did when you came out of the woods.


4. So what do you do? If you get out alive. Next time take a map and compass or a mapping GPS.

[RBB]

You decide to take a short day hike on a well-established trail near your home in Alaska. It’s late spring, temperature is 65*F but can dip into the 40’s at night and not a cloud in the sky. The trail meanders through the forest popping in and out of meadows with the mountains in view. You arrive at the end of the trail but decide to go a bit further up the mountain. You cut your own trail through more forest until it opens up into a huge meadow. Just ahead you see a waterfall and decide to hike to it. Halfway there you run into a lake blocking your way. You have no map or compass but decide to go around the lake, sure you will be able to find the trail you just made. You make it around the lake and to your destination. You decide to head back because you only packed for a day hike so you have no real food or shelter. You make your way around the lake and begin looking for the path you made on the way in. No luck finding the path but you head into the forest assuming you can’t be far off and are sure you will run into the established trail. After hiking for about 3 hours it finally starts to set in that you are not as close to the trail as you thought, your lost. On top of that it begins to rain. You have no shelter, no food, and no water. You do have a knife and your basic survival kit including fire steel, signal mirror, iodine tablets, survival blanket, snares and your canteen. Keep in mind when I say you, it’s not really you, it would be an average occasional hiker with minimal skills and knowledge. What do you do? Stay and wait for rescue? But you told no one about your trip and wont be missed for at least a week. Try to find your way out? But you have no idea where to go, you are lost with no compass or map. So what do you do?

Well, if this is me (I really can't say what someone else would do), I've been lost before, and I like to think I have learned a few things from it. I would have done a lot of backwards looks once I left the trail - to imprint the way on my mind (things never look the same coming as they do going). If I was going through the woods, I would be picking out tall trees directly ahead to keep my trail straight. If I take any turns, I leave some kind of trail marker.

http://www.inquiry.net/images/bbrg239.gif

I'm also good enough at tracking to see where I've come, and would never have left the lake (large geographical feature) without locating my back trail. And what about this huge meadow? How did I loose sight of that? Wouldn't I have taken a good look at where I came out into the meadow? Wouldn't I have made a marker - or at least a good mental note of what my trail looked like?

If worse comes to worse - I'd build a fire, put my back against a tree, and huddle under my space blanket to keep dry. When the rain quit (next day or whatever), I'd start using trail markers and blazes from the point where I spent the night (so I didn't get lost any further) and keep casting about until I found my back trail or the trailhead.

[crashdive123]

I agree with the steps that Klkak has taken. I'd take similar steps in the morning. For now shelter and fire are going to be my priorities as I settle in for the night. The kit has enough where that shouldn't be a problem.

[MCBushbaby]

1. What do you do? [I](Find a big cotton wood tree and bash your forehead against it in the hopes it'll knock some since into you...

hah! Got you back! lol

Personally doug, I'd make a fire and try to stick it out for the night. Then try again in the morning. I know I entered somewhere around this lake and I know it was the opposite side of the "objective" so I'll just poke around until I find a blaze or recognizable landmark.

[klkak]

I agree with the steps that Klkak has taken. I'd take similar steps in the morning. For now shelter and fire are going to be my priorities as I settle in for the night. The kit has enough where that shouldn't be a problem.

I didn't suggest making camp as it is late spring therefore it don't get dark until late if at all. As it is pretty warm I wouldn't worry to much about the rain.

[FVR]

You're right, it's not really me.

Because I would have taken a compass reading at the car.
I don't hike in and not tell anyone.
I always take food and a plastic bag.

And, I can always find "my" back trail.LOL.

[crashdive123]

I didn't suggest making camp as it is late spring therefore it don't get dark until late if at all. As it is pretty warm I wouldn't worry to much about the rain.

Gotcha. That's another reason when asking for advice, taking it from somebody most familiar with the conditions should be considered. Thank you.

[doug1980]

You're right, it's not really me.

Because I would have taken a compass reading at the car.
I don't hike in and not tell anyone.
I always take food and a plastic bag.

And, I can always find "my" back trail.LOL.

As should anyone if they are going hiking. It amazes me how many people don't take the simple steps into consideration. I wouldn't go to a new city without a map so I deffinately wouldn't go out in the wilderness without one. Basically I wrote this to show that bad judgement is the main cause for this type of situation. Using common sense would have kept this scenario from happening. Know your limits, don't do it if you're not prepared, and above all do some research first.

[FVR]

One of the reasons I did not address your original question is because I don't know diddly about Alaska.

Stayed in the airport for a few hours and looked at the bear and the wolf, that's it.

A good trick for ending or starting a trail in thickets from an opening you speak of, is to take a piece of flaggers tape and just tie off a little piece at your exit, which will show you your entrance on returning.

[dolfan87]

I can't do this one, because I don't know what anyone else would do. If it were me, I would of taken a compass, water, food, and marked my trail. Also I don't leave a marked trail without at least a compass.

The exploration portion of the hike would of had to wait for another day if I was not prepared.

[RangerXanatos]

Keep in mind when I say you, it’s not really you, it would be an average occasional hiker with minimal skills and knowledge. What do you do?

If I were to put myself into this situation under the same circumstances of having minimal skills and knowledge, I would probably keep on trucking on through and hope for the best. When it got too dark or I was too tired to keep on going, I would wrap up in the blanket and freeze during the night. I wouldn't know how to start a fire, it rained and everything got wet. In the morning, after getting little or no rest, I would start back again searching for my way out.

Since this is a person of minimal skills and knowledge, I pesonally wouldn't put much stock into the person making it. There is no telling how far the person is from any recognizable landmark. They have been going for 3 hours already and I would assume that it would be dark before the person could make it back to the lake and waterfall. They would have very uncomfortable nights and what is to tell us that the next day won't be near freezing? As far as we know the person could be going directly the opposite way that they should be.

If it were a person with bett knowledge and skills, or at a different location, I would assume that they'd have a better chance.

Daniel

[Cleankill47]

You decide to take a short day hike on a well-established trail near your home in Alaska. It’s late spring, temperature is 65*F but can dip into the 40’s at night and not a cloud in the sky. The trail meanders through the forest popping in and out of meadows with the mountains in view. You arrive at the end of the trail but decide to go a bit further up the mountain. You cut your own trail through more forest until it opens up into a huge meadow. Just ahead you see a waterfall and decide to hike to it. Halfway there you run into a lake blocking your way. You have no map or compass but decide to go around the lake, sure you will be able to find the trail you just made. You make it around the lake and to your destination. You decide to head back because you only packed for a day hike so you have no real food or shelter. You make your way around the lake and begin looking for the path you made on the way in. No luck finding the path but you head into the forest assuming you can’t be far off and are sure you will run into the established trail. After hiking for about 3 hours it finally starts to set in that you are not as close to the trail as you thought, your lost. On top of that it begins to rain. You have no shelter, no food, and no water. You do have a knife and your basic survival kit including fire steel, signal mirror, iodine tablets, survival blanket, snares and your canteen. Keep in mind when I say you, it’s not really you, it would be an average occasional hiker with minimal skills and knowledge. What do you do? Stay and wait for rescue? But you told no one about your trip and wont be missed for at least a week. Try to find your way out? But you have no idea where to go, you are lost with no compass or map. So what do you do?



I walk off trails all the time. It's not a difficult thing to learn to back trail yourself, it just takes time to learn.


Question: in my included gear list I have a canteen, but it is empty...... Why?

Seeing as how I can't answer for the 'average' hiker.... I can't really say what anyone but me would do. I don't think I would have started out the same way in the first place. (Especially telling no one where I was going, or wandering through Alaska without at least one gun, simply unthinkable. I would have a high-caliber revolver in a shoulder holster for the big stuff, a .22 Single Six on my hip for small game, and quite a few rounds of ammo for each, especially the .22.)

If it had been me, on the side of a tree line, I would have blazed a small tree or bent a sapling with leaves on it to the ground so I would know where I came in. If nothing else you can tie a blazed stick to a tree at an odd angle so that it jumps into your sight.

If I was actually in that situation, I would build a debris hut and wait out the rain, probably take a nap. Those huts can be comfortable with the right stuff. And with a fire, you can make some good teas and stews with small game and wild edibles to keep your energy up, allowing you to think more clearly when it comes to decision making.

If it really was a well-established trail, then I would be looking for smaller trails that would lead to it, also looking and listening for people or animals or signs of both, depending on what made and used the trail. I've gotten out of a few bad situations where other trails came in handy.

[endurance]

I'm with klkak on this one as far as starting by sitting down, have a drink or make some water with the iodine tablets and canteen (or gather rain water on my space blanket). I'd assess the situation and figure out how many hours I had until daylight, how serious the rain storm looks (is this a severe thunderstorm that might bring hail and I should hunker down vs. a passing spring shower), how I fell physically, and plan from their.

If daylight is fading or the storm is really serious looking, then I'm going to find a good place to build an expedient shelter. It doesn't have to be anything fancy, just enough to keep me relatively dry and out of the wind. Since I have a space blanket, I can keep dry and warm so I'm not overly concerned about having to spend the night if I must. I'd start a fire to keep my mind off the things that go bump in the night and bring some warmth into my shelter if conditions allowed. I'd heat some water and make some spruce needle tea. In the morning I'd try to find my way out, as follows.

If I still have plenty of light, the showers are light and nothing to worry about, and I'm clear headed with hale body, then I'll proceed to plan a way out. The one linear landmark that I can find again is that stream that fills the lake and creates the waterfall, so I need to get back to it. I should know where it is relative to my current location based on whether I crossed it facing the sun, with the sun at my back, or with the sun on my right or left. Once I find the stream I have two choices and my choice will be based on my knowledge of the area before hiking on the trail. If I know that all streams in the area drain into a major river that has a roadway or railway by it, then I'll just proceed downstream until I hit the road or rail. If I don't know or the stream does not go toward any human habitation, then I'll go either up stream to the meadow and lake and try to refind the trail again or down to an intersect point I know by the trail.

[Ziggy]

Seems to me that asking a crop of people who wouldn't have gotten into the scenario to begin with what they would do if they HAD gotten into the scenario is a bit like asking a deaf man about his favorite music.

Having read a good portion of posts from most of the members, I'd say it's unlikely we would have gone witout telling someone, without some modicum of a weather forecast, without either knowing the lay of the land well enough to backtrack, or having maps of the area.

Now if I were the average hiker I'd just wait a few hours, start to panic, use up resources until gone, go hypothermic, lay down and shiver to death, thereby thinning the gene pool just enough that I wouldn't have any kids as stupid as I am for not being honest enough with myself to say "I don't know enough to be going off a well established trail, so I won't."

[ryaninmichigan]

You decide to take a short day hike on a well-established trail near your home

This is the deal wrecker for me. If it is by your house and you hike on an even almost never basis. Why don’t you already know about the lake and water fall? There is not a place around my house that I can not walk in and out with out a compass because I know the area I live there. That goes for my place up north as well. I know the area. Now if I was going to hike some national forest here in Michigan that I had not hiked before then I would have a compass and GPS.

[trax]

I'd run around waving my arms in the air and screaming in a really high falsetto voice until I was exhausted and passed out in the bush (wouldn't be the first time I've passed out in the bush, but the first time for that reason) OR I'd just stop and look over my shoulder once in awhile on my way to the objective and then the way back would be really clear to me coming from the objective. It's worked all my life. If it's raining, I'd probably get kind of wet. I don't want to rip apart the details of the scenario, but like a few others have said I would have food and at least a small tarp with me, even for a day hike. The Alaskan wilderness, I'm sure, can turn unfriendly rather fast (not Alaskan people, clearly, from the ones I've met here)

[klkak]

Seems to me that asking a crop of people who wouldn't have gotten into the scenario to begin with what they would do if they HAD gotten into the scenario is a bit like asking a deaf man about his favorite music.

I believe the reason for the thread is because he has almost no Alaska bush experience. He wishes to do a bit of exploring of Alaska while he and his wife are stationed up here.

In other words he is not asking to see if we can figure a way out. He is asking so that he can learn from more experienced folks.

[klkak]

It rains very little in late spring in most Alaska.

[trax]

Seems to me that asking a crop of people who wouldn't have gotten into the scenario to begin with what they would do if they HAD gotten into the scenario is a bit like asking a deaf man about his favorite music.

Beethoven was deaf when he wrote his 9th symphony.

[doug1980]

I believe the reason for the thread is because he has almost no Alaska bush experience. He wishes to do a bit of exploring of Alaska while he and his wife are stationed up here.

In other words he is not asking to see if we can figure a way out. He is asking so that he can learn from more experienced folks.

Thanks klkak. I knew in writing a scenario most people would respond the way they did. And they are all correct, I am also aware that most here think posting scenarios like this is a waste of time and useless. However, when people just ask specific questions they are met with scrutiny. So how is one to learn on here then? I followed the scenario outline, was as specific as possible, and thought very carefully before posting. I realize that most here would never be in this situation, but try to think back to when you were a bit younger and less experienced, I'm sure you were there once. But I appreciate all the responses, and value all of your opinions. The moral to this scenario is bad judgement led to the situation. Making poor discisions can be deadly in the bush even if you are experienced. Preperation and knowledge is the best thing to avoid this from happening.

Doug

[crashdive123]

Doug - I think you did just fine. There are several ways to learn the answers to questions...asking is often the least painful of the available options.
most here think posting scenarios like this is a waste of time and useless. There may be some that feel that way, but I'm willing to bet that there are many more that do not. Not only will you get answers to your questions, but so will many, many others that view the thread.

[trax]

I enjoy most of the scenarios, admittedly we've had a couple that are just too far out there, but I thought Doug's was reasonable. I also like the check list, it should give people a better guide to "what if" situations. Also, if I respond to "I wouldn't have been in that situation because ...." I took whatever precautions ahead of time, please just consider that as part of the answer. Hopefully, those type of answers are the ones that will help prevent those kinds of mistakes.

[endurance]

...and passed out in the bush (wouldn't be the first time I've passed out in the bush, but the first time for that reason)
Tru-dat! My ex-wife was that way, too.:p:rolleyes::eek: