Bear Stopper?

[dougz]

One of my biggest fears, having joined the S&R team, and doing heretofore any sort of activity in the wilderness, has been and continues to be my fear of animals..

Bears specifically..

Now, I've heard it 1000 times..

They're more afraid of you than you are of them, give them their space, make plenty of noise and you'll be fine, etc, etc...

But to my mind that's cold comfort to those statistical anomalies unfortunate enough to have been mauled..

Now, the more I look into this search and rescue gear, the more it makes me feel like getting out, doing some hiking and camping with my family..

I think as part of an S&R team, I'd be part of a relatively large group, and if not safer, at least I'd only have to outrun the slowest member (he says, half jokingly).

But if it's just the 4 of us, including 2 small children, I'd want to make sure they'd be safe..

Bear spray? Bangers?

I dunno..

What kind of firearm would be best in a strictly defensive, relatively short-range application against a bear?

Some kind of shotgun? If so, what kind, specifically?

(I know absolutely NOTHING about guns, and would of course be taking all sorts of courses.. But speaking hypothetically..)

[Sourdough]

Did you only want "Hypothetical" answers.........???

[dougz]

Any and all are welcome.. :)

[Stairman]

I was wondering about the bear spray repellants myself.As far as a handgun for protection Id holster a 44 magnum.

[Ole WV Coot]

I know little about bear except for a few in my area. I do know a tad about handguns and the 44mag is not the gun to learn with. Animals or people aren't that easy to hit. Guess from what I read from the folks that face bear constantly they seem to like spray. As for a handgun, 44mag minimum. 12ga pump with a load someone in the know could recommend, but it just isn't that easy to fire a weapon under pressure. Stick with spray.

[RBB]

I would recommend a 12 gauge short barreled slide action shotgun with rifle sights and slugs. I would make sure the shotgun has a tang safety, and I would practice cycling through a series of shots. I would also practice carrying the shotgun (on a sling) and getting it into battery as quickly as possible (be careful).

Old WV Coot is right about using guns. I recommend a shotgun because I've been a gun man all my life. If you go with a gun - practice is very important. In emergency situations - you have to rely on "muscle memory" to make you react correctly

[Sourdough]

Hypothetical factors to thunk about.......How many in the party shall be trained/skilled in application of chosen deterent.....?? Is the "SIZE" of deterrent use able by all potential operators.....How many in the party shall be packing chosen deterent......?

[Pal334]

I agree with RBB. I am a 12 guage guy (my choice is a double barrel "coach type"). My choice is based on my environment and training. I can shoot two accurate slugs and reload quite quickly, following up with two more. This should be able take care of business. I carry mine on a single point sling, so it is always directly at hand and can be placed "in battery" almost instantly. This rapidity is due to years of practice (as RBB said, is muscle memory now) with this type of carry in the military and other venues. From reading these forums, it does seem there is no one answer and I would suggest whatever "answer " you choose, practice, practice and then practice some more.

[Sourdough]

Hypothetically....If firearm fits only the largest male, and LOP renders firearm inoperable by smaller female; What if largest male and firearm are both being gnawed on by fuzzy'thingie......?????

Hypothetically....might be gooder to pack firearm operable by all adults both Male and female. LOP should fit smallest adult. This will still be operable by larger adult.

[MCBushbaby]

I think your standard pistol would work if you really demand that much defense. No use in carrying buckshot and a heavy shottie around when a pistol will work*... would also have use while tussling with one whereas a shottie would be too long to be of use. Pepper spray I hear works but you need the strong stuff (forgot how they measure it), not the crap WalMart sells.

*I read about an arctic hunting crew that killed polar bears with a .50 pistol by getting within 50ft. If 50 can bring down that brute, a .357 should work on a black

[MCBushbaby]

Oh, if my move out to CA gets finalized, I'll be looking at avoiding cougars in the bush (as well as my first introduction to venomous snakes). I don't mean to detract from your thread, but how the hell do you fight off a cougar? They sneak up on you and go for the neck... pepper spray is useless by the time they're on you so I'm guessing a good stiff knife?

[crashdive123]

Cougar is nothing more than a big cat. Bring a dog.......one with special powers helps.

http://www.slashgear.com/gallery/data_files/9/6/DogCostume-01.jpg

[dougz]

Thanks for the comments..

One thing I've been considering strongly is the chance, greater by far, of the firearm being just as much a danger to US as it is to any bear..

Just the thought of my boys and their curiosity makes my blood go cold..

Are there ways to ensure, past a tang safety and carrying the gun everywhere I go 24/7, that the gun cannot be fired accidentally, while not being excessively hard to rearm quickly in a stressful situation?

Perhaps my best option would be to ensure if I ever go camping, it is with at least one more family, with more than one adult packing pepper spray?

A big dog would be great, but we don't have one, presently..

[crashdive123]

Thanks for the comments..

One thing I've been considering strongly is the chance, greater by far, of the firearm itself being just as much a danger to US as it is to any bear..

Just the thought of my boys and their curiosity makes my blood go cold..

Are there ways to ensure, past a tang safety and carrying the gun everywhere I go 24/7, that the gun cannot be fired accidentally, while not being excessively hard to rearm in a quickly in a stressful situation?

Perhaps my best option would be to ensure if I ever go camping, it is with at least one more family, with more than one adult packing pepper spray?

Training, training, training. I know that you said you'd take a course if you went that route, but I mean for the kids as well. A firearm is nothing more than a tool to get a specific job done. Just like with a hammer or circular saw, kids must be trained in order to ensure their safety.

[dougz]

Yes, I'm sure the fear of God could be put in them, and they are good boys..

But being autistic, they are also more unpredictable and impulsive than your average 5 and 8 year olds, unfortunately..

It's not Black bears I worry about as much as Grizzly bears..

I wish I'd never watched "The Edge"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's forever ruined the wilderness for me..

Like I say, this joining the Search and Rescue team has been a huge leap forward for me..

[crashdive123]

I don't mean by putting fear into them. I won't presume to tell a parent what to teach their kids, at any age, but proper use and respect for the firearm. Even a program like the NRA has for kids - stop - don't touch it - tell an adult if you find a firearm (simple version). I know it types easier than it is in reality.

[Sourdough]

Most, but not all, magazine type handguns, will not discharge with out the magazine inserted, even if there is a cartridge in the chamber. So if the magazine is in your pocket and the handgun is in the holster, they would need both to discharge firearm.

[dougz]

proper use and respect for the firearm

I hear you..

What I should say is knowing there is some way to disable the safety would be just as terrible and probably unfounded as my fear of running across a bear..

They would MOST likely leave it alone, just as they most likely would be careful around a campfire, but....

A lock requiring a key in the trigger mechanism would work, I guess..

That's all I can think of..


So if the magazine is in your pocket and the handgun is in the holster, they would need both to discharge firearm.

Are there 44 magnum handguns with magazine clips?

[DOGMAN]

I live in an area that has alot of Grizzly bear attacks. I think there have been 11 Grizzly attacks on humans in my county in the last two years alone. All of our garbage areas for my community are gated, and bear proof. It is illegal to have garbage outside of your house at all in my area. Lastly, I see easily 20-30 bears a year. The closest I've been to a Griz is about 5 feet!

I believe in BEAR SPRAY 100% It is widely recommended by all governmental agencies and is way more effective than a pistol. Heres why...

Unless you are a skilled marksman in stressful situations, the chance of you being able to draw and fire a gun that will deliver a lethal shot to a Grizzly in a close combat situation is small.

While weilding a pistol in a bear charging situation you are highly likely to miss the bear, hit it somewhere were it will still attack you, accidentaly shoot a bystander, or accidental shoot yourself. Also, You gotta have a pretty stout forearm to stop a Griz. A 12 gauge can do it, so can a .357- but, neither is no guarantee. A big bruin will eventually bleed out from a shot from one of these, but it may not stop them in their tracks. So, they can still attack you even after taking a couple of hits!

However, BEAR SPRAY really works! Don't use it until the Bear is a couple of feet from you than mist the heck out of it right in the eyes! The bear will stop the attack, and drop to the ground in horrible agony. Giving you time to vamoose.

Also, by doing this you've now trained the bear to avoid humans- without killing it.

If you shoot a Grizzly you will be in for a world of paper work, court preceedings, etc... Even if its ruled a necessary killing on your part, your looking at years of dealing with the government. I had a friend that shot a Griz in MT almost a decade ago, and he still has to deal with issues concerning that!

USe bear spray, and both you and the Grizzly get to go on about your business- both a little smarter and humbler from the encounter

[MCBushbaby]

I'm not a pistol expert but let's see if I can paint the image:

Jason Stamos rips a pistol from a bad guy's hand, ejects the magazine, cocks to eject the chamber round, slides the barrel "cover" (?) off, and tosses each piece in separate areas of the room.

[RBB]

Training, training, training. I know that you said you'd take a course if you went that route, but I mean for the kids as well. A firearm is nothing more than a tool to get a specific job done. Just like with a hammer or circular saw, kids must be trained in order to ensure their safety.

I have always had at least one loaded gun in the house (only locked up when we have company). This was also the case in my parent's home while I was growing up.

From their earliest age, the kids were informed that ANY gun they came across was loaded, and their first weapons training was to point the gun in a safe direction and check the action for cartridges. Never had any trouble with the kids and firearms.

I agree that a pistol is adequate for black bear. As Dougz appears to hail from BC, I would be concerned about brown bear - which is why I recommend a shotgun. From what I've heard, BC is also home territory for more cougars than anywhere. My only advice for dealing with cougar is, "Don't run."

[Ole WV Coot]

My carry 45 would maybe do in a pinch. I carry full mag, safety off, chamber empty. I can draw, rack and fire rather well for an old hillbilly. Don't try this if you want to put your finger inside the trigger guard !! This method was taught many many moons ago to the Shanghi police and works for me after a little (50yrs) of using it. I would agree with everyone and especially Crash, practice, practice under a good instructor.

[rockymtnchief]

Great advice Jason. I've gone through 3 cans of bear spray and I'm still standing. Not even a scratch (ruined underwear, yes).

One mistake a did make, though, is when bear spray first came out I thought it would be smart to "make my territory" with the spray. I sprayed around the camp and on my tent. DO NOT DO IT! Bears will become curious as to the smell. Use it only when the bear is threatening/charging you.

[dougz]

Pepper spray I hear works but you need the strong stuff (forgot how they measure it), not the crap WalMart sells.

Is this true??

Where do you get "the strong stuff"?

[crashdive123]

Is this true??

Where do you get "the strong stuff"?

You want to get something labled as bear spray, not pepper spray. Think volume. What may irritate the eyes of a would be attacker will be just enough for seasoning for the bear's next meal.

[DOGMAN]

Is this true??

Where do you get "the strong stuff"?

You want to get "Counter Assault" Bear Spray. In the large canister
in Canada visit the website
http://www.counterassault.com/html/canada.html

This is the original high powered pepper spray invented to fend off charging Grizzlies. Highly recommended!

[primeelite]

I would rather have a .45 or .357 with at least 6 rounds before I would pull out pepper spray. Most of the time bear will just leave you alone as long as you don't provoke them or cubs are not around. If they come in your campsite best thing to do is the leave the campsite because they are more interested in your food than they are you.

[crashdive123]

Based on what every single person on this forum that lives in bear country has said, I think I would prefer bear spray.

[doug1980]

Take a bazooka that will stop em.

[DOGMAN]

I would rather have a .45 or .357 with at least 6 rounds before I would pull out pepper spray. Most of the time bear will just leave you alone as long as you don't provoke them or cubs are not around. If they come in your campsite best thing to do is the leave the campsite because they are more interested in your food than they are you.

Why would you rather use lethal force than non-lethal means? Studies by government agencies and universities state that pepper spray is better at stopping an attack then a gun. Why would you want to kill a bear, as just stop a charge?

[dougz]

Thanks, Jason..

I also found this site..

http://www.bearrepellent.com/

How would you compare the 2?

[Stairman]

I agree the spray is the best answer.I wasent sure of its affectiveness,now I am.Unless Im hunting,inwhich I will have a gun anyway,I would equip the adults with the repellent.If Im bowhunting in Griz country I would have it as well.

[Pal334]

Based on what every single person on this forum that lives in bear country has said, I think I would prefer bear spray.

I agree with Crash. Seems the folks that live in bear country say spray. "New Jersey"( at least my part , has been officially converted to spray). Well maybe just a little shotgun in back pocket :)

[klkak]

I am living proof that spray works. I've been in several encounters with bear where I used spray and the encounter ended instantly. I've only known a couple of folks that could stay cool long enough to place the one shot they would get in a spot that would stop the bear.

[dougz]

Sounds like the spray is the answer then..

I'm relieved..

I didn't like the idea of having a gun in the house, or out camping..

[DOGMAN]

Thanks, Jason..

I also found this site..

http://www.bearrepellent.com/

How would you compare the 2?

Dougz, I bet its basically the same stuff. Which ever is easiest for you to get up in BC is probably the way to go.

I like the Counter Assault guys because I've met them several times at trade/outdoor shows and they're really great guys. The founder of the company is permanetly disfigured because of a Griz. and he's a really humble guy and great advocate for bears and wild places. Even after being mauled by a bear- he still strives to protect them

[DOGMAN]

Don't get me wrong. I am a big advocate of guns in general. Just for this particular use there is a better option- BEAR SPRAY!

[DOGMAN]

WHAT OTHERS SAY ABOUT COUNTER ASSAULT (taken from their website)

"Counter Assault has given us the best results."
Dr. Charles Jonkel, Director, University of Montana Border Grizzly Project.

"The darn stuff proved to be almost amazing. I carry the spray and think it could be a lifesaver."
Dr. Stephen Herrero, University of Calgary; author of “Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance”.

"Counter Assault bear spray has been in use for a long time and has the best record for confirmed cases of stopping attacking bears. I highly recommend this product"
James (Gary) Sheldon - British Columbia bear expert and author of “Bear Encounter Survival Guide” and “Bear Attacks, The Deadly Truth”.

"One alternative (to firearms) that's gaining notoriety is to carry a holster of bear deterrent. The leading brand on the market - Counter Assault."
Tod Wilkinson - Backpacker Magazine

"The product is appealing to me because it is lightweight, easy to use, controllable, and most importantly, not lethal to the animal. For these reasons I will continue to have Counter Assault on hand during my excursions into the wilderness areas of North America."
John Blaser, NY State Guide, Tuckahoe, NY.

"I too was a bit skeptical of how effective Counter Assault would be in repelling an aggressive bear, at first. But now that I have used it twice, both times with excellent results, it has become a permanent tool I carry on all excursions into the bush."
John Hyde, VIS, State of Alaska Department of Fish and Game.

"Although the best defense against a charging bison is to avoid situations that can agitate an animal to charge, Counter Assault proved an effective defense against charging bison."
John Harris, Ladder Ranch, Caballo, New Mexico.

"Without a doubt the spray saved us from bodily harm. In my opinion it's better to carry the spray than a handgun in bear country. Everyone who hikes, camps, hunts, or photographs in bear country should consider Counter Assault as required equipment."
Michael Francis, Wildlife Photographer, Billings, Montana.

"If I hadn't been carrying that can of Counter Assault one or more of us would have been seriously injured or possibly killed."
Terry Domico, Writer/Photographer & Natural History Specialist, Bainbridge Island, Washington.

"Most recently used the last of my canister to remove a pit bull who was firmly attached to my ankle. Nothing else available works as effectively or with the broad spraying range as Counter Assault."
S. Craig Mitchell, Anchorage, Alaska

[dougz]

One thing I DID notice was the Counter Assault cans have TWICE the active ingredient potency..

Looks like they just relabel them as 1% to get around the CDN shipping req's..

I'll get the Counter Assault, thanks!

[Sourdough]

Sounds like the spray is the answer then..

I'm relieved..

I didn't like the idea of having a gun in the house, or out camping..

You still need too control access to the Bear Spray, You don't want the young'ins playing with it.

Pay attention to breeze and wind direction, if possable try to maneuver up wind.

[SARKY]

First line of defense is your brain....USE IT!
second line of defense bear spray
third line of defense handgun with appropiate ammo or shotgun with apporpiate ammo.

[dougz]

You still need too control access to the Bear Spray, You don't want the young'ins playing with it.

Yup, for sure..

Should be a heck of alot easier, though, in terms of peace of mind, and ways to prevent accidental use..

The effects of the spray are lot more reversible than a gun shot, I'm sure..

[Sourdough]

This past summer several Brown/Grizzly Bears were harvested with both Chevy's and Fords. I think they used a Toyota to harvest a 9' Brown Bear just down the Hope Road 3 miles. It appears to be equally fatal for the Truck as for the Bear.

[mcfd45]

Just realize that encounters with bears are not that likely. As most have said before you will probably not be able to hit the bear when he is charging at you at 35MPH. Go with the spray.

[klkak]

Just realize that encounters with bears are not that likely. As most have said before you will probably not be able to hit the bear when he is charging at you at 35MPH. Go with the spray.

I just figured out a safer way to practice the one shot bear stop. Instead of having someone stand in front of you and throw a baseball at you and you trying to shot it before it hits you. Try the following.

1. Get your bear stopper firearm of choice

2. Drive to the nearest batting cage

3. Stand in front of the pitching machine

4. When the machine pitches the ball, raise your firearm and shot the ball before it hits you.

[TDG]

You could take bear mace, but I haven't used it before so I'm not sure about the effectiveness.

If you want a firearm. I recommend a 12 gauge shotgun or a Magnum. Magnum guns cause a lot of damage because of the shock wave of the bullets.

[dbldrew]

I’m thinking it’s the large hole the bullet makes in the vitals and not some “shock wave” that will cause the damage. :rolleyes:

[crashdive123]

Magnum guns cause a lot of damage because of the shock wave of the bullets. ???what do you mean???

BTW - shoot on over to the introduction section and tell us a bit about yourself, then maybe we'll know.

[klkak]

I think he is referring to "hydrostatic shock". Unfortunately big heavy animals don't pay much attention to "hydrostatic shock". They do however respond well to large diameter heave bullets.

TDG, Unless you are one cool customer and a very very good shot under extreme duress I would advise you to use pepper spray. This is advice is from one who has had several encounters with Mr. Brown fuzzy long claws.

As I have said before. unless you can hit a softball coming straight at you at say 30 mph with the first shot every time. Chances are you are going to get knocked down, slapped around and used as a chew toy.

[trax]

Well Dougz, there you have it. You've got the guy from the Netherlands recommending big gun and the guy from Alaska recommending bear spray, who ya gonna go with on this one?:D

[crashdive123]

I know which advice I'm taking.........strike one (you don't get two or three):eek::D

[RangerXanatos]

I watched a little bit of "I Was Bitten" Friday night and they were telling a story of a man that was mauled by a grizzly. That night I had a dream of being chased by bears. Lol. Are there any places that sell Bear Spray over the counter, or are they all just about ordered online?

[crashdive123]

In bear country it seems to be readily available.

[klkak]

I watched a little bit of "I Was Bitten" Friday night and they were telling a story of a man that was mauled by a grizzly. That night I had a dream of being chased by bears. Lol. Are there any places that sell Bear Spray over the counter, or are they all just about ordered online?

If you are in bear country just about any store that sells sporting goods will sell bear spray. I usually buy mine at Wal-mart.

[RangerXanatos]

Guess I'm SOL. Thanks though.

[dougz]

Guess I'm SOL.

??

Not being in Grizzly country, you mean? :)

ANY sporting goods store worthy of the name in ANY part of the country will have bear spray..

[RangerXanatos]

The closest Name Sporting Goods store to me is DICK'S at an hour away and they didn't have it. Last week, I went to an REI and a DICK'S at a different location and neither one had it.

[crashdive123]

If you're headed to an area that has bears, you should be able to pick some up pretty easily when you get there. The last time I was in the Smoky Mts seems like every little shop or store had it.

[tsitenha]

Ranger have you asked a nearby store to special order it?

[RangerXanatos]

No, I have not. I'm waiting to have a store to special order some shoes for me as well.

[wildWoman]

There's a bunch of threads here about fear of animals and what to do about bears. Take bear spray and bear bangers, and spend a few hours on www.bear.org
IMO, bears have a somewhat similar body language to dogs. Be aware that you are mostly scared because you haven't had much chance (I guess) to interact with them. When you come across an animal you fear, you are likely to interpret its behaviour based on your fear.
in my mind, the key is to get rid of the fear. You can work on that by learning as much as you can about bears and pick the brains of bear-friendly people who ave experience with them. And by having bear encounters...where eventually, your own statistics will prove your gut feeling wrong ("jeez, already bear number 24, and still none has chewed on me").

[dougz]

Well, I'll try and make as much noise as I can, and keep bear spray with me..

Hopefully I won't have to see any..

Well, if Grizzly Man can do it, by God I can!!

Wait..... :(

[tsitenha]

Bears have very good hearing so you don't have to sound like a marching band while your out and about.

[dougz]

Oh, I'm sure I'll be making plenty of noise just walking about, depending on the terrain..

But I'm thinking one or 2 bells wouldn't be misplaced..

[SARKY]

When you hear bells in the woods it is usually from inside the bear.

[dougz]

Can you elaborate??

[crashdive123]

Can you elaborate??

Lot's of people wear little bells to "announce" themselves. Think of it this way....large pile of scat with berries in it - black bear scat. Large pile of scat with little bells in it - brown bear scat.

[dougz]

I'm still wondering about the contradiction..

Are you saying you ARE supposed to make noise so they hear you, or you AREN'T?? :(

[Ziggy]

I haven't read all the replies, but the people who are USUALLY (but by no means always) attacked by bears are lone hunters or hikers. They rarely attack groups, theoretically because of noise. Wear a cowbell, and spray. The spray is so intense to their hyper-accute sense of smell, it'll 'rock their world, so to speak. Spray is also legal everywhere, so the jerks-in-charge won't get riled up for you encroaching on 'their' domain.

[higgy]

[QUOTE=dougz;91576]One of my biggest fears, having joined the S&R team, and doing heretofore any sort of activity in the wilderness, has been and continues to be my fear of animals..

Bears specifically..
QUOTE]

I have the same concerns but what if you also have moose or big cats in the area? I don't want to have bear spray for a charging moose in the brush do I?

I was considering a gas-operated semiauto 12 gauge 8+1 capacity. Any comments on this or ammo considerations?

Edit: Sorry I didn't mean to hijack the thread.

[nell67]

Hi higgy,how about charging your way to the intro thread and telling us a little about yourself?:)

[trax]

Higgy, the incidence of moose actually attacking people is exceedingly rare. If you're on foot it's pretty much unheard of.For the bears, yeah make some noise if you know they're in the vicinity. My (very limited) research has shown that over 90% of bears attacking has been individual or paired hikers and the bear was startled. Big cats I do not have any kind of answer for.

I also recommend, which I seldom do, using the search function on these subjects.

[higgy]

Thanks Trax. It' might be rare but I want to be prepared if I confront one. This article says more people are injured by moose than bear yearly. I have no idea, I'm just trying to learn more gooder.

http://www.xyz.net/~khltkbr/projects/moose/coexist.html

Edit: The article is refering to Alaska.

[trax]

Yeah, I've heard about those Alaska moose having a nasty attitude, that's why I'm trusting on klkak to protect my azz if I ever get up that way. The thing is, we had a thread here years ago about what to do if a moose charges you and most of the answers I read were just flat out stupid. You're not going to stop a charging moose. I've seen 3/4 ton trucks lose arguments with moose, I mean everyone dead, driver, passenger, moose, truck totaled. Nail the brakes and throw it into reverse as fast as you can if you're in a vehicle. The moose will tire out before your car will. Move 90 degrees from his direction of charge is my advice, if you're on foot,they have a hard time turning. If he turns to charge again, get out of there or get up a tree, remember as soon as the moose feels the threat has been dealt with, he'll stop. Usually they only behave like that when they're in a 'romantic' frame of mind. RiM insists that he'd shoot a charging moose, well.....man when they're moving fast, it takes a pretty good nerve to stand there and aim and even a high powered bullet can deflect off a moose's antlers. Think you're going to get a second shot? Doubtful, you're going to be moose tracks. I definitely don't recommend standing there throwing ninja stars at them. :D :D :D

[crashdive123]

You're not going to stop a charging moose.

Take away his credit card.

[higgy]

Great information Trax, especially the part about not taking ninja darts to a moose fight! LOL

[Sourdough]

Thanks Trax. It' might be rare but I want to be prepared if I confront one. This article says more people are injured by moose than bear yearly. I have no idea, I'm just trying to learn more gooder.

http://www.xyz.net/~khltkbr/projects/moose/coexist.html

Edit: The article is refering to Alaska.


If you took all the people hurt in Alaska by Moose AND Bears, and made a chart that included people hurt by Human Attack, or Automobile attack. The Bear & Moose would register on the chart as zero in comparison.

So if you want to fear something, fear cars, trucks, and humans......:eek:

[higgy]

Hopefully there won't be an increase of animal-human encounters because of a natural disaster like that yellowstone volcano rumbling. Thats what been scaring me. But that's another story.

[trax]

Brown bear #1: Hey is that a volcano rumbling I hear?
Brown bear #2: Yep, let's go attack some humans, that'll fix it!
Brown bear #1: I'm not quite following your logic.....how about we run for our lives instead.....:rolleyes:

Now higgy rumble on over to the intro section and just write an explosive introduction for yourself!

[higgy]

I'm sorry, I just live downwind, and if it pops lotsa folks be lookin for a new space.

[trax]

Yeah my point was that if Yellowstone 'pops' I don't think bear encounters are going to be your number one priority. Now..where down-wind, give or take, what do you do there? got a family? interested in outdoor survival skills long? got a lot of experience with it? See? these are the kinds of things that people tell us in their....(drum roll please) INTRO!!!:eek:

[crashdive123]

...and you can find it here http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=14 Thanks.

[higgy]

I didn't want to debate the premise, I just want to know the best weapon to use against a moose or bear. :)

[Ziggy]

Yeah, so anyway, The question seemed to be about bears, not cats (which the chances of you seeing before an atack is slim). If you can't hear a miffed moose coming in time to get out of it's way, ya might just stay out of the woods...

I'm just sayin...

[Stony]

dougz
as a guy from Mackanzie, you should know better than ask here for advice.
forget the handgun nuts.
none of them has had ever shoot & kill any bear in self defence.
a gun gives a false sense of security, the BEST is capsium spray and bear bangers.

you live and work in grizzly country and should find very experienced people right in your neighborehood.
talk to them instead of some that never have seen a bear.

[klkak]

I see and deal with a God awful lot of bears and moose. If I were to try and average it out. I would think that less then a 1/10th of a percent of the encounters are notable.

[RBB]

In our local woods, we have no brown bear. We have a lot of black bears, but the most dangerous animal to encounter is moose. I've been chased three times by a cow with calf, though the general consensus is a bull in rut is even more dangerous.

Moose, when you're up long side one, are a very large animal with very big hooves. They have poor eyesight and I once came near to being run over by one that didn't see me. I shouldn't say they have poor eyesight, but they key on things that move. They can see almost 360 degrees, so sneaking up on one is tough - even from the rear.

With my brothers, I once brought a friend, Rich, a great woodsman from south Minnesota, up to a lake we like to fish in Canada. His main reason for coming: He'd never seen a moose.

At every portage we'd see moose tracks, His response, "Could be cows for all I know." We assured him he'd get his chance to see a moose.

After many long and arduous portages (this is a great fishing lake), we got into the lake we were headed for - about noon of the third day. No sooner had the canoes hit the beach than Rich jumped out, grabbed a roll of TP and headed inland to do his duty. As my brothers and I started to set up camp, we began hearing shouting from back in the woods. We thought Rich must be trying some prank on us and ignored him.

After a bit of time, and no sign of Rich, we set out to see what had come of him.

We found him up a tree. It must have been the only pine with a branch low enough to reach within half a mile. Rich's eyes were big as saucers. He had the roll of TP in one hand and his kay-bar in the other. At the foot of the tree was a particularly large cow moose. The calf, very young, was scampering about like a kid at play.

As we were in Canada, no one had a gun. We returned to camp and got kettles and tin plates. We banged them together, shouted and hollered. Nothing could get the moose away from Rich's tree.

Finally, we told Rich to sit tight, the moose would go away eventually. We returned to camp and started fishing.

Rich returned to camp about dusk looking pretty shook. We ignored him for a bit, then Randy turned to him and said, "How do you like our cows"?

[dougz]

dougzas a guy from Mackanzie, you should know better than ask here for advice.

Being from Mackenzie, I'd find more gun-nuts here than on this forum, believe you me.. :)

They've seen many a bear, it's true, and all feel better with their rifles at hand..

Unfortunately (or fortunately, I should say), I've not found anyone who has had occasion to use bear spray on a bear and live to tell the tale..

I can't help but believe there are more people on this forum that have come into contact with bears than people in Mackenzie have (being a town of less than 3,000), and I WAS hoping for more testimonials from people having actually used bear spray OR a gun on a bear.. But it doesn't seem like it's come to that for anyone here..

[Ziggy]

In our local woods, we have no brown bear. We have a lot of black bears, but the most dangerous animal to encounter is moose. I've been chased three times by a cow with calf, though the general consensus is a bull in rut is even more dangerous.

Moose, when you're up long side one, are a very large animal with very big hooves. They have poor eyesight and I once came near to being run over by one that didn't see me. I shouldn't say they have poor eyesight, but they key on things that move. They can see almost 360 degrees, so sneaking up on one is tough - even from the rear.

With my brothers, I once brought a friend, Rich, a great woodsman from south Minnesota, up to a lake we like to fish in Canada. His main reason for coming: He'd never seen a moose.

At every portage we'd see moose tracks, His response, "Could be cows for all I know." We assured him he'd get his chance to see a moose.

After many long and arduous portages (this is a great fishing lake), we got into the lake we were headed for - about noon of the third day. No sooner had the canoes hit the beach than Rich jumped out, grabbed a roll of TP and headed inland to do his duty. As my brothers and I started to set up camp, we began hearing shouting from back in the woods. We thought Rich must be trying some prank on us and ignored him.

After a bit of time, and no sign of Rich, we set out to see what had come of him.

We found him up a tree. It must have been the only pine with a branch low enough to reach within half a mile. Rich's eyes were big as saucers. He had the roll of TP in one hand and his kay-bar in the other. At the foot of the tree was a particularly large cow moose. The calf, very young, was scampering about like a kid at play.

As we were in Canada, no one had a gun. We returned to camp and got kettles and tin plates. We banged them together, shouted and hollered. Nothing could get the moose away from Rich's tree.

Finally, we told Rich to sit tight, the moose would go away eventually. We returned to camp and started fishing.

Rich returned to camp about dusk looking pretty shook. We ignored him for a bit, then Randy turned to him and said, "How do you like our cows"?

Now THAT was funny

[klkak]

Being from Mackenzie, I'd find more gun-nuts here than on this forum, believe you me.. :)

They've seen many a bear, it's true, and all feel better with their rifles at hand..

Unfortunately (or fortunately, I should say), I've not found anyone who has had occasion to use bear spray on a bear and live to tell the tale..

I can't help but believe there are more people on this forum that have come into contact with bears than people in Mackenzie have (being a town of less than 3,000), and I WAS hoping for more testimonials from people having actually used bear spray OR a gun on a bear.. But it doesn't seem like it's come to that for anyone here..

I am one who has used both pepper spray and a gun on bears and know a couple of people with the same experience. Every encounter where pepper spray was used, the bear stopped in its tracks and ran off post haste. Three of those encounters I was the one using the spray. In one of my encounters where I was using a weapon (Remington 870 w/Brenneke black magic slugs). The bear took three hits from a .338 win. mag. and one of my slugs. It dropped less then its body length from me. On an attack that happened to a friend. The bear took three .338 hits before it broke off. My friend took a whole lot of staples to put him back together.

If you use a gun, chances are you are going to get mauled. If you use pepper spray, chances are you won't!

[dougz]

I am one who has used both pepper spray and a gun on bears and know a couple of people with the same experience.

There we go..

Thanks! :)

[higgy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evDLCnquErM&NR=1

edit: Sorry about the Budweiser commercial. Just trying to keep a scary situation emotionally tolarable.

[Sourdough]

I can't help but believe there are more people on this forum that have come into contact with bears than people in Mackenzie have (being a town of less than 3,000), and I WAS hoping for more testimonials from people having actually used bear spray OR a gun on a bear.. But it doesn't seem like it's come to that for anyone here..

This is not a forum that would be receptive to hearing about the use of firearms on bears or any animals.

You have encountered my B!tch about the Forum, one or two people with first hand extensive experience get shouted down by posts from well meaning "Google'experts" who have no experience in that subject.

After getting shouted down a few times it is easier to just let the well meaning, well read, wrong advise be disseminated. It really does not matter as it is just entertainment.

Who are you going to believe the 70 posts from people who say if you encounter a bear, retreat. Or the one who say's stand your ground, or PUSH the bear.

Search a thread about: stealing food. I have had as many as 40 close, (LESS than 15 feet away), bear encounters "PER" day. Day after day after day. Had as many as 5 grizzly/Brown bears in camp at the same time; destroying everything in camp. Had Grizzly/Brown bears build nests and sleep next to my tent, and then snore loudly all night.

I have shot or guided hunters in the harvesting of maybe 75/90 bears in the last 40 years. Had Zodiac boats eaten, snow machines eaten, ATVs eaten, Buildings eaten, crops eaten by bears.

I can teach someone first hand what bears are communicating by their behavior, but it can not really be safely communicated in words. That said, Never ever run, or even back up if the bear can see you. If he looks away you can back up, but stop backing up if the bear looks your way. But it is safer to push than retreat. My advise is always stand your ground if the bear sees you.

I have "NO" first hand experience using bear spray.

[dougz]

My advise is always stand your ground if the bear sees you.

Thanks!!

Probably easier said than done.. :(

[Riverrat]

I have never had bear spray, although I am getting some. I have not had the experience Hopeak or others have had, but have seem a few bears, for me, all black. I have to agree, never run, stand your ground. I have been caught between mom and cubs, woke up on one side of a big pine tree, heard a noise and when I looked around the tree, a bear was laying on the other side. I have seen them knock pretty good size trees down with a swipe of a paw, break a car window like china, and tear a camp to crap in minutes. I still say to stand your ground, you run you stand a good chance of becoming dinner...

I am the same as some others on here, I am more worried about moose, cows with young calf's, and bulls in the rut....have been attacked by a cow and seen a truck pretty well trashed by a bull. In my case, I waved my arms and shouted, the cow went away after awhile.

[Sourdough]

Thanks!!

Probably easier said than done.. :(


EASIER than getting chewed'on.......:(

[Sourdough]

I notice with the geese and the dogs. If the geese hold their ground the dogs will lung at them, bark in their face, threaten them, but will not touch them. The microsecond the goose turns, the dog will grab the goose from the backside, and shake them. How many times do you read over and over, the bear grabbed my by the butt or upper thigh and shook me violently, like a rag doll.

[klkak]

If you see a bear. Stand very still. Let him know that you know that he sees you. Then slowly back away. (from the movie "The Edge")

[rebel]

http://majorlycool.com/media/1/20080501-bear-chasing-golfers-off-green.jpg

[crashdive123]

Mind if I play through?:eek:

[ricc9]

Real bear attack. Spray would have done nothing in this case.
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=LZnsL7-UdGc&feature=related

[nell67]

Thanks for the link ricc9,how about heading over to the intro thread and telling us a bit about yourself.:)

[ricc9]

I live about 3 miles below the Manitoba border. We have a large population of wolves, bears and a small number of big cats coming back.

The spray is an excellent form of protection, but i wouldn't want to put my life on it alone. I often carry a .357 while out in the bush here. My choice in "big" bear country would be a short barrel pump shotgun, first round #4 shot, then slugs.

Many bear encounters can be avoided with a little common sense and education. Sad so many people come to the bush with a "Walt Disney" mentally and think bears are cute and cuddly. Most encounters can be avoided, but there are the ones that you do everything right and the bear just won't back down. In that case, it's your well being or the bear.

The video link I posted above is one of realty, not a Hollywood production, and just how fast a situation can go bad and how much time you have to decide on your options.

The spray works and then it don't, bells work and then they don't. There is one sure answer, all the precautions you take, you may still find yourself with your life in your own hands, each of us will act as we see fit at that time. If your afraid of the woods and the bears, simple, stay out of them....

[trax]

Real bear attack. Spray would have done nothing in this case.

Ummm, those guys were out there to shoot bears right?

[crashdive123]

Yeah - big difference in my book between out wandering in the wilds and having a chance encouter with a bear than having a team and camera crew out hunting them. Don't know anybody that hunts with bear spray.

[klkak]

My choice in "big" bear country would be a short barrel pump shotgun, first round #4 shot, then slugs.

The video link I posted above is one of realty, not a Hollywood production, and just how fast a situation can go bad and how much time you have to decide on your options.

So, Knowing that you have very little time to react to a bear attack. Why would you carry #4 shot as your first round?

Wait, let me guess. It's for a warning shot. Right?

#4 shot is for rabbit hunting not bear protection!!!

My Remington 870 is loaded with Brenneke Black magic slugs only.
My .44 magnum revolver is loaded with Buffalo Bore 305gr. hard cast lead flat point.

If you are going to carry a gun for bear protection then load it with something that will kill a bear. Not piss it off the more a cause someone else to have to go find and put it out of it suffering.

[klkak]

Real bear attack. Spray would have done nothing in this case.
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=LZnsL7-UdGc&feature=related

You poor poor child. I have stood face to face with a brown bear in full charge not unlike the one in the video and hit it with bear spray. We were separated by the length of my 2006 Arctic Cat 500 ATV and that bear stopped dead in its tracks.

The bear in the video could continued its charge right into the guide and possibly killed him after being shot. I will tell you as I have said before in this very thread. I have had 3 encounters with bears using pepper spray. No one....let me say that again....No one. Not even the bears were killed or injured. I work every day of every summer in bear country. I do carry a firearm but I also carry 3 cans of pepper spray.

[ricc9]

You poor poor child. I have stood face to face with a brown bear in full charge not unlike the one in the video and hit it with bear spray. We were separated by the length of my 2006 Arctic Cat 500 ATV and that bear stopped dead in its tracks.

The bear in the video could continued its charge right into the guide and possibly killed him after being shot. I will tell you as I have said before in this very thread. I have had 3 encounters with bears using pepper spray. No one....let me say that again....No one. Not even the bears were killed or injured. I work every day of every summer in bear country. I do carry a firearm but I also carry 3 cans of pepper spray.


Sorry, I should have put things in a better prospective. The #4 shot was a slip from here and dealing with black bears. You are correct, the bird shot would have little to no effect on a big bear. The spray seems to be the best choice, but I too would keep my S&W 44 mag in hand.

In the video, that sow had only one thing on her mind, she was going to hit that guy, no ands, ifs or buts about it. The fact remains, these large animals are unpredictable and trying to out guess one may cost you your life. Like I said before, the best defence in bear country is your common sense.

Oh, by the way, I'm no "Poor Child", I'm 60 years old and hunted most of this country. I have had only one bear run in, a black that wanted that patch of woods more then I did! In big bear country, it's a whole new ballgame...

[klkak]

Sorry, I should have put things in a better prospective. The #4 shot was a slip from here and dealing with black bears. You are correct, the bird shot would have little to no effect on a big bear. The spray seems to be the best choice, but I too would keep my S&W 44 mag in hand.

In the video, that sow had only one thing on her mind, she was going to hit that guy, no ands, ifs or buts about it. The fact remains, these large animals are unpredictable and trying to out guess one may cost you your life. Like I said before, the best defence in bear country is your common sense.

Oh, by the way, I'm no "Poor Child", I'm 60 years old and hunted most of this country. I have had only one bear run in, a black that wanted that patch of woods more then I did! In big bear country, it's a whole new ballgame...

Forgive me for disrespecting an elder.:)

[ricc9]

Forgive me for disrespecting an elder.:)

60 isn't old, it's a state of mind!:D

My oldest and family lived in Fairbanks a few years ago, were talking about going back up there in the next year or so. Not Fairbanks, I don't do cities! Still alot of planing yet to do.

[klkak]

Alaska is a nice place to visit.

[Sourdough]

I just found my new Charging Brown Bear pistol......Has anyone seen the video of the guy lighting off the 600 NITRO EXPRESS in a Thompson contender pistol.

[crashdive123]

I just found my new Charging Brown Bear pistol......Has anyone seen the video of the guy lighting off the 600 NITRO EXPRESS in a Thompson contender pistol.

I just looked up and watched 2 different videos on youtube. I guess if you can hold onto it it might work.

[Sourdough]

I just looked up and watched 2 different videos on youtube. I guess if you can hold onto it it might work.

Yea, that is it......I was not able to load it onto the forum. I thought it was funny when he lights it off someone yells: FORK and he should have yelled FORE or Duck.

[crashdive123]

For anybody interested, here it is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZL797pOAZ0

[RBB]

Checked out a couple of the other videos. For the life of me, I can't figure out why some guys want to have their scrawny little wife or girl friend shoot some over-sized pistol and get smacked in the face!

Must make them feel macho.

[ricc9]

Drunks and guns don't mix as well as stupid people.

[higgy]

Thanks for the weapons and ammo info klkak. I'll be buying some spray also.

[higgy]

Is there any kind of scent that you can put on your body that they don't like?

[Sourdough]

Is there any kind of scent that you can put on your body that they don't like?

We use "Moth Balls" around buildings, and equipment, everything we do not want the bears to eat. I use them on Kodiak and Afagnak Island to keep the Brown Bears out of camp.

Note: they are toxic and care should be used, around tents.

I even put moth balls out with the crops, to keep the bears from eating all the oats, barley, grass seed.

[trax]

After some of the things I've seen black bears eat, I have trouble believing they have a sense of smell at all, but apparently they have a very good sense of smell. I can't think of anything to recommend for putting on yourself, they just might think 'mmmm, spicy'

[higgy]

This link tells what the people were doing when they were killed by bears.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America_by_dec ade

[higgy]

Maybe if I get one of these I won't need a weapon. Remember the guy that made the bear proof suit. Here is what it evolved into.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPS2l5fQ55A&mode=related&search=

Edit: disregard that jello video after...it has nothing to do with this topic

[RBB]

A local baker sprayed pepper spray around his dumpster and rear steps under the mistaken belief that it would repel bears. Used to have a pretty good video of a 600 pound black bear (probably the largest I've ever seen) licking up the pepper on the bakery's rear steps. Some bears like pepper.

[Pal334]

Maybe if I get one of these I won't need a weapon. Remember the guy that made the bear proof suit. Here is what it evolved into.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPS2l5fQ55A&mode=related&search=

THat man is a clown. I hope no one is taking him seriously. His inspiration is Star Wars and video games? And alledged requests from elite military?
Some glaring problems: No joint protection, the mickey mouse helmet restricts vision and sighting a weapon would be a nightmare, just by its bulk this suit would make prone usage difficult at best. And anyone that thinks any suit of body armor will protect you from an IED is gravely mistaken.
Sorry for the bluntness, but this is an area that is much too serious to give any credit to this type of crack pot.

[higgy]

Yes, that was totally ment to be a joke.

[Sourdough]

This link tells what the people were doing when they were killed by bears.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America_by_dec ade


I see that a few people I have know who got bear bit to death are "NOT" on the list.

[higgy]

Moth balls, Thanks hopeak! I think I'll put a jar in my pack for camping.

Edit: Moth ball safety,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moth_balls

[Sourdough]

Moth balls, Thanks hopeak! I think I'll put a jar in my pack for camping.

Read the box, they are naphtha or cleaning fluid, You don't want to be HUFFING the fumes.....:eek:

[higgy]

I read snakes don't like moth balls also.

[higgy]

I also read that there are new or old types of mothballs.

[Sourdough]

I buy them at Walmart, and on out buildings In the spring I place one every 20" apart all around the building, and extra on the corners, as the bears chew on the corners. When I park the snow machine for the summer, I put them under the cowling, and set them on the track, and on the seat, under the seat, on the dash. And all around the machine.

Buildings I live in I keep them 4 feet away. They last about 7 or 8 months as they slowly evaporate. So once a year is good here. I use 5 boxes per year on equipment and buildings. and 3 to 5 more on crops.

[Pal334]

Yes, that was totally ment to be a joke.

OOPS, . My bad for blowing off like that . Apologies

[higgy]

OOPS, . My bad for blowing off like that . Apologies

I imagine a grizzly would make short work of that too! LOL

[tsitenha]

PAL, off topic but that guy with the bear continued to refine his products and is now on his way to be a millionaire. Material is nearly flame proof and is now being used to line vehicles for coin ops. Crack pot maybe but rich........

[doug1980]

I read snakes don't like moth balls also.

That is true. Moth balls work well as a snake deterent.

[trax]

That is true. Moth balls work well as a snake deterent.

I wonder how they work on moths.....:cool:

[doug1980]

I wonder how they work on moths.....:cool:

Great if you don't mind having smelly clothes. lol

[Pal334]

PAL, off topic but that guy with the bear continued to refine his products and is now on his way to be a millionaire. Material is nearly flame proof and is now being used to line vehicles for coin ops. Crack pot maybe but rich........

I can't argue with results.:)

[Sourdough]

POP Quiz: It is Alaska Dec. 15 through Feb. 15, There is five feet of snow. -22*F below.

Question are all the bears in hibernation........????

[higgy]

If you walk by the den, kiss your *** goodbye

Edit: Brown bear, right?

[doug1980]

POP Quiz: It is Alaska Dec. 15 through Feb. 15, There is five feet of snow. -22*F below.

Question are all the bears in hibernation........????

I say no, but I don't have any facts to back that up with. Polar bears don't hibernate though.

[Sourdough]

The pregnant sow always hibernate, (last week or this week was the birthing). But only lack of food will drive the big boars in, and the real big boars will go in and out all winter. Starving bears will not hibernate. A huge brown bear was shot on new years day in downtown Port Alsworth, on lovely Lake Clark, Alaska, maybe 10 years ago.

[Sourdough]

I always wonder why we have never de'denned one with the snow machines.

[higgy]

The pregnant sow always hibernate, (last week or this week was the birthing). But only lack of food will drive the big boars in, and the real big boars will go in and out all winter. Starving bears will not hibernate. A huge brown bear was shot on new years day in downtown Port Alsworth, on lovely Lake Clark, Alaska, maybe 10 years ago.

Great info for a newbee like me.