Waterproofing Suggestions?

[MCBushbaby]

I have a pair of Scarpa SL M3's featuring siliconized, full-grain, 2.8mm leather. I used NikWax spray on them the first year but it always wore off after a dayhike or so -- could tell by when water started darkening the leather rather than beading. Looking for a more enduring solution that can be rubbed in, rather than create a coating. Read about beeswax and beeswax/bear fat mixtures but am under the impression animal fat would damage the leather over time (even though the advertising claims contrary). Any suggestions on a long-lasting, durable solution that won't damage the leather?

FYI, old-timey waterproofing called for beeswax, animal fat, and pine resin... but I'm a little iffy, again, on animal fat.

[tsitenha]

I'm going to take a leap on this, these are boots???
If so, I used "dubbin" when I worked in the bush, works well needs reapplication from time to time, smells... well like work time has definately come.

[Swamprat1958]

If these are boots and have any leather, treat them with snow seal. It works on my "LL Beans".

[MCBushbaby]

Yes they are boots. google. :rolleyes:

[crashdive123]

When I lived in Seattle area I waterproofed my Kastinger boots twice a year with bees wax (don't remeber the brand). Never had any problems with getting wet.

[MCBushbaby]

Something like this (http://www.shoetreemarketplace.com/KIWI_Camp_Dry_Beeswax_Waterproofer_p/146000.htm)then I suppose?

[crashdive123]

I don't know if it was Kiwi that I used (probably) but that is what I would use today for waterproofing is I was purchasing a product to do it.

[pgvoutdoors]

Your Scarpa's are made from dry-tanned leather (leather that has had all of the oils taken out and replaced with a silicone treatment). This is a common method used in mountaineering boots (Scarpa's main focus). This make a relatively waterproof boot under winter conditions. These boots don't use a synthetic membrane, such as GoreTex, to make them waterproof. Dry-tanned leather is much more breathable, reducing moisture buildup from perspiration. This is very important in a high mountain environment.

So to answer your question on how to treat the leather, it should be treated with a silicone based waterproofing. The best method for applying silicone is to do it in multiple layers. That is, apply a coat and let it completely dry and apply another coat. Silicone dries in microscopic beads, by layering these beads on top of each other the leather becomes waterproof but allows moisture saturated air to work it's way through the leather. Oils, waxes, and grease treatments will not work well on dry-tanned leather.

How waterproof can you expect your boots to be? Under dry winter conditions these boots work really well, better than GoreTex lined boots. (better breathability) Using this style boot as a three season boot you can expect some leaking in the wetter environments. I wouldn't worry about the leather looking wet as long as it still repelling water.

If your dead set on making them more water repellent than normal, you can try this; buy some liquid silicone boot treatment, Red Wing sells it in a small bottle with a dobber, and add some "clear" silicone caulking to it. Mix this well, until all of the silicone is dissolved. Apply two to three coats of this silicone enriched treatment, allowing each coat to dry before applying the next. This will dramatically increase the waterproofness of the leather but will reduce the breathability. I would only recommend doing this if the boots start leaking like a sieve.

Scarpa is one of the top boot manufactures in the world, if you take care of your boots they should serve you well.

[MCBushbaby]

Thanks pvg. I've never had a problem with my Scarpas leaking but, as you stated, I treat them well so they'll last. I just got a reply from Scarpa Customer Support and they only recommend NikWax (silicon-based) but they rep informally recommended SnoSeal. He said it works better but eliminates breathability. I might pick up NikWax Aqueous (silicon-based) and a jar of Huberd's Shoe Grease or SnoSeal... put one waterproofing on one boot, the other on the other boot. Go for a week and see which one fairs better.

[pgvoutdoors]

Here's a couple things you need to consider with dry-tanned leather; first the warranty can be voided if you treat them with a oil or wax based leather treatment. I have many years of experience with top boot companies and I have found that in most cases of defects they won't say anything. But if you return them for leaking, they quite often reject your claim if the boots were improperly waterproofed. Second, applying oil or wax treatments to dry-tanned leather relaxes the leather fibers and in-turn makes it much more difficult to keep the boots waterproof. In the short term you will see improved water repellency but as the leather starts to breakdown and soften, it wants to absorb water more easily.

The difference in dry-tanned and oil-tanned leather. Dry-tanned leather dries and constricts the fibers of the leather. Then by treating the leather with silicone the fibers become water repellent and tightly bonded together. Where as oil-tanned leather replaces the natural oils with other types of oil treatments expanding the leathers fibers to repel water. These types of boots can also be treated with a variety of waxes to help make the outsides more water repellent. Oil-tanned leather (cow hide), by its nature is not as waterproof or breathable as dry-tanned leather. Oil and wax treatments don't absorb well into dry-tanned leather. (the silicone repels the treatments) These treatments work best when they are absorbed into the fibers of the leather. The same goes for putting silicone on oil-tanned leather, the silicone won't bond to the oils in the leather.

In the short term putting an oil or wax based treatment on dry-tanned leather will make the water bead-up better. In the long run these treatments will work there way into the leather, breaking the leather down into a more absorbent state. You will have basically converted you dry-tanned boot into a lesser waterproof oil-tanned boot.

[MCBushbaby]

Alright you convinced me, silicon for me.

[pgvoutdoors]

Just passing on what I've learned over the years, I hope it helps you and others.

After you take in account all of the above, when my boots get sopping wet I put on fresh socks and cover them with bread bags before putting on my boots.

[bulrush]

I used bear grease on my leather bomber jacket for 10 years. Never had a problem, until I got so busy I didn't put the grease on every year. Then the leather dried and cracked. I also have used silicon on the leather parts of my boots with good effect. The sprays (probably silicone based) never seemed to last long.

Perhaps try mink oil. Or Neatsfoot oil.