Old Salts, Test Me

[dolfan87]

SO...the wife and kid are off to Phoenix to go Christmas shopping with her sister this weekend. I have a Saturday/Sunday to head into the desert and apply some skills I may or may not have. ;)

I thought it would be fun to have some of you give me certain goals/objectives to attain.

For instance I have never made fire with a bow drill/hand drill. So that is something I want to achieve.

What suggestions would ya'll have for me? Remember I live in the low Arizona desert. Also, it has been raining for the past two days, and we have had nearly two inches of rain.

Let me have it!

[crashdive123]

That may be a good skill to practice, but you may want to practice it a few times under ideal conditions first - otherwise it may be a very frustrating experience. Which ever skills you decide to work on, have a back up with you in case you need it. Other than fire with friction, what skills do you think you need to work on? Finding water and making it drinkable in your area may be one to work on. If it's still raining, then water collection may be the call.

[Stairman]

Have backup firemaking means until you have mastered a few different drills for sure.

[MCBushbaby]

Yea, do the fire drill. Bring a camera or camcorder and record your experience.

[Stairman]

Crashdive you got in before i saw it again.

[crashdive123]

Crashdive you got in before i saw it again.

Just been practicing my typing.:D

[dolfan87]

I will go prepared with the usual camping stuff...but I want to test myself at the same time. I am to much of a wuss to not make sure I will be ok. ;)

[DOGMAN]

Capture a Desert Tortoise, then cook it and eat it, then make something useful out of its shell.

[dolfan87]

Capture a Desert Tortoise, then cook it and eat it, then make something useful out of its shell.

Like a cooking pan! :p

[Runs With Beer]

That may be a good skill to practice, but you may want to practice it a few times under ideal conditions first - otherwise it may be a very frustrating experience. Which ever skills you decide to work on, have a back up with you in case you need it. Other than fire with friction, what skills do you think you need to work on? Finding water and making it drinkable in your area may be one to work on. If it's still raining, then water collection may be the call.

Yes, I would agree. Get that water!

[ClovisMan]

A desert dugout shelter would be a cool achievement. Actually spending the night in it would be even cooler.

[MCBushbaby]

A desert dugout shelter would be a cool achievement. Actually spending the night in it would be even cooler.

or colder!

[RangerXanatos]

Especially with all of that water filling up his dugout.

[ClovisMan]

Especially with all of that water filling up his dugout.
The rain should stop by tomorrow if you believe the meteorologist. Plus, all the rain makes the ground softer. Easier to dig, but I'm not sure about the desert. I've never been there.

[SARKY]

If it's raing that much .......perhaps the back stroke?

[dolfan87]

Yeah the rain is supposed to cut out of here by tomorrow at mid day. I'll take up the shelter, finding water, and bow drill...hopefully I make it out alive...lol

[rebel]

Plant recognition and the uses. What you thought about the difficulty in finding and preparing the plants in your area.

[larmus]

dolfan87 pm where your going and if you dont make it out i could come and fetch ya... lol. i just heard we have two more cold fronts coming in, so i would suggest just concentrating on shelter and fire making. try different methods for fire making everything from matches and magnesium to just flint and friction methods. if you have time see if you can make some shelters as well like under mesquite trees or lean-to's against rock faces, so on and so forth...

[Badawg]

Interestingly we got 3 inches from that last storm. Just staying dry might be a lesson all on it's own.

[crashdive123]

3 inches of snow in Las Vegas. Wonder what the odds on that were?

[dolfan87]

dolfan87 pm where your going and if you dont make it out i could come and fetch ya... lol. i just heard we have two more cold fronts coming in, so i would suggest just concentrating on shelter and fire making. try different methods for fire making everything from matches and magnesium to just flint and friction methods. if you have time see if you can make some shelters as well like under mesquite trees or lean-to's against rock faces, so on and so forth...

I am about a block from open desert where I live. So I was just going to put some things in my pack, and 4 wheel out to a remote spot, and then hike a little ways.

If all else fails, my iPhone will be in a ziplock bag, and I have service pretty much everywhere back there. In fact, I may even be able to post here from my campsite. ;)

I'll try at least.

I am really good with a flint, matches, and lighter already. It's the friction deal that has me so intrigued...I need to learn that.

[larmus]

well try to stay warm and good luck on that fire making...

[crashdive123]

Have fun - good luck. Details and pictures when you return.

[Jay]

Here's some things you can do...

How many plants can u identify in your area of travel?
Of those, what are the edible ones, what will make good tinder, firewood, indicate ground water, harbor insects and other critters?
Is there dew fall in the morning? If so can you catch it on a plastic sheet etc....how much? What time does animal/insect activity peak?
Wind indicators...sand ripples, bent trees, scrub, worn rocks etc.
Have fun
j

[dolfan87]

OK, fire was completely unsuccessful with the bow drill. Every piece of wood I found was still wet from the rain, and I found nothing in the way of quick tinder that was dry.

Even still I decided to try for a coal to see if I could at least get that going. I worked for an hour with the bow drill, and I got a lot of smoke...no coal.

Water I found...plenty of it. Came across a little stream just coming out of the sand at the base of this rock outcropping. Since it was coming out of the sand, I drank it without any treatment.

Shelter...uggg. By evening my shelter turned into my Kelty tent. I had worked up a little lean to against the side of a 5 foot side of a hill that was vertical. Grabbed a bunch of palo verde branches, and made a decent little shelter.

However, once the sun went down, dew was everywhere, and the ground just seemed to seep moisture. I was going to tough it out, but...well...I didn't. I set up the tent (in the dark) wiped down my sleeping bag with an extra t-shirt, and went to sleep.

So I failed two out of the three missions. Not happy with myself.

[MCBushbaby]

OK, fire was completely unsuccessful with the bow drill. Every piece of wood I found was still wet from the rain, and I found nothing in the way of quick tinder that was dry.

Even still I decided to try for a coal to see if I could at least get that going. I worked for an hour with the bow drill, and I got a lot of smoke...no coal. Did you notch your base so the ashes had a place to pool outside of the drill hole?

Water I found...plenty of it. Came across a little stream just coming out of the sand at the base of this rock outcropping. Since it was coming out of the sand, I drank it without any treatment.

Shelter...uggg. By evening my shelter turned into my Kelty tent. I had worked up a little lean to against the side of a 5 foot side of a hill that was vertical. Grabbed a bunch of palo verde branches, and made a decent little shelter.

However, once the sun went down, dew was everywhere, and the ground just seemed to seep moisture. I was going to tough it out, but...well...I didn't. I set up the tent (in the dark) wiped down my sleeping bag with an extra t-shirt, and went to sleep. Always insulate yourself from the ground. A little dew shouldn't be making your life hell

So I failed two out of the three missions. Not happy with myself.

But you learned from your mistakes! That's the good thing. I you can identify failures and adapt the next time, consider it a success. I once froze my *** off during an October survival outing but a few months later in February I was toasty warm because I identified, adapted, and overcame

[tsitenha]

Practise...practise...practise... it will get there. That is the point of testing yourself out, we did not succeed at everything ourselves on the first go.

[Sourdough]

So I failed two out of the three missions. Not happy with myself.

I figure you did better than 99.99999999999999 % of the rest of the forum that did not even try this weekend. So that makes you 99.99999999999999 % successful in my book. How you like them Apples.......????:p:);)

[dolfan87]

Re: the bow drill question. Yes I notched the fire board. I am going to give it another try in a couple days. Honestly though, right now there is nothing in the way of tinder out there. Usually there is a lot of dry little grasses out there.

Hell, usually there is dry EVERYTHING out there...lol

I didn't put any insulation on the ground...I realize now that was a mistake. I don't know why I didn't think of that.

Hopeak. I understand what your saying. ;)

[tsitenha]

A couple of fallacies:


1: I have a kit....it will save my life in time of need

2: I have read every thing I can get my hands on I'm ready, the more I know the less I need

__________________________________________________ ________
1: A kit with no testing or experience with it in the bush is a crutch that will fail

2: book knowledge without field experience again is just deception of oneself

Read and understand to klkak's signature

Oh by the way there is always tinder... just have to look for it in the right places

[dolfan87]

A couple of fallacies:


1: I have a kit....it will save my life in time of need

2: I have read every thing I can get my hands on I'm ready, the more I know the less I need

__________________________________________________ ________
1: A kit with no testing or experience with it in the bush is a crutch that will fail

2: book knowledge without field experience again is just deception of oneself

Read and understand to klkak's signature

Oh by the way there is always tinder... just have to look for it in the right places

With all due respect, I searched for a good long while without finding anything. I don't know how much time you have spent in the low Arizona desert, (I have lived here 21 years, and spent a good portion of that time camping and hiking here...although I always go with gear, so i have never needed to try and do the primitive methods of making fire) but if you have...please enlighten me as to where it was hiding.

[huntermj]

I'm curious about what wood you used for the fire board and drill? Also what color was the ash that collected in the notch? And was it like a powder or flakes? What kind of trees are in your area?
Jim

[dolfan87]

I'm curious about what wood you used for the fire board and drill? Also what color was the ash that collected in the notch? And was it like a powder or flakes? What kind of trees are in your area?
Jim

I used a piece of dead Saguaro cactus for the fire board, It was all I could find that had any width to it. The drill was a dead palo verde branch. It was straight, but only about a half inch in diameter...so maybe it wasn't fat enough? The ash was kind of a blackish brown. It would smoke, but when I stopped, it would quit smoking after like 5 or 6 seconds.

I really tried to stay focused, and not get frustrated...but in all honesty, I was getting mad towards the end.

edit Trees? LOL...we have Palo Verde "tree's" and cactus. This is the second hottest and driest area next to Death Valley.

[huntermj]

I have had the best luck using the same wood for both the fire board and spindle. If the spindle is harder then the fire board it will tend to drill right through it without making enough heat. It may put up some smoke but not reach the temperature needed. The saguaro cactus should work. I'm not familiar with the Palo Verde. My rule of thumb is when i see smoke start its time really get drilling. The color sounds about right, if its more brown then black you may want to try more pressure on the spindle.

Hope this helps, Jim

[dolfan87]

Thanks Jim...I am going to try again in a couple days, and I will use your advice.

[larmus]

at least you tryed dolfan87, sounds like you know what you need to improve and im sure you will sleep nice and warm next time... do you think that a piece of mesquite would be to hard for the base fire board? maybe next week things will have dryed out enough to get some tinder up... keep up the good work, if at first you dont succeed, bust out the tent...lol.

[dolfan87]

at least you tryed dolfan87, sounds like you know what you need to improve and im sure you will sleep nice and warm next time... do you think that a piece of mesquite would be to hard for the base fire board? maybe next week things will have dryed out enough to get some tinder up... keep up the good work, if at first you dont succeed, bust out the tent...lol.

LMAO...that I did brother...that I did.

It's supposed to rain tomorrow, Weds, and on Christmas here.

I know this is lame, but I may just go buy some wood from Ace (a spindle piece, and a fireboard) and try it at home until I can do it with relative ease.

:o

[crashdive123]

I know this is lame, but I may just go buy some wood from Ace (a spindle piece, and a fireboard) and try it at home until I can do it with relative ease.

Not lame at all. Practice under ideal conditions and then move on from there. Shaping a piece of a wooden dowel and spinning it on your fireboard makes burning it in fairly simple. Look at it this way - if you broke down and needed to spend the night by the side of the road, but wanted fire and had no other way to start it.....would you bypass the lumber and Dewalt 24v drill that was laying in the back of your truck?

[huntermj]

Thats how i first learned, a piece of ceder from the lumber yard shaped on the table saw and band saw. Worked great.
Have fun!

[MCBushbaby]

Don't laugh. If you look online you can find pictures of people who actually bring fully-made bow drills and baseboards with them. There's a contest for "smallest functioning bow drill" and you can see some amazing pocket-sized firestarters. No harm in bringing your own wood. No harm in bringing your own drill. :)

found it : http://www.primitiveways.com/pt-small-fire.html

[tsitenha]

Even on a rainy day, split a small dead dried up branch limb and there will be dry matter inside. Water does not penetrate through and through a branch, scrape away an amount of dry fuzz and there is "tinder".

[wudshapr]

so you set up the tent..., you had it there. I would have too, but the point is, you had a shelter that WOULD HAVE WORKED if it was not planned. If it wasn't a goal to go out and do this, and you actually did not intend on sleeping in the desert, did that shelter perform enough to keep you alive? No shame in that partner.