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wareagle69
12-11-2008, 10:05 PM
ok reluctantpawn let me tweak your fire vs shelter question a bit.
in all honesty when out in the wilds what do you do first set up shelter or build a fire?
even when i lived in arizona i built my fires first then worried about shelter.for me i could always do a makeshift shelter quickley so i always spent more time looking for fuel.
so what do you practice more firsestarting or shelter building and why?

Runs With Beer
12-11-2008, 10:17 PM
I still agree Fire first!

Sourdough
12-11-2008, 11:06 PM
Regret to state I have never practiced either one, fire building or emergency shelter building. We never build fires, with the exception of burning trash be for aircraft extraction.

klkak
12-11-2008, 11:25 PM
Same here Hope. I don't practice either one. I already know how to do both. For me it's kinda like taking a dump. All I need is the urge, location and opportunity.

dolfan87
12-11-2008, 11:34 PM
I do my shelters first...but to be honest it is usually just my tent. Fire has always come second, but I suppose if I was in a situation where I had to get warm right away, I would do the fire first.

In a normal situation though, I always start with the shelter.

wareagle69
12-12-2008, 08:28 AM
I do my shelters first...but to be honest it is usually just my tent. Fire has always come second, but I suppose if I was in a situation where I had to get warm right away, I would do the fire first.

In a normal situation though, I always start with the shelter.

hey are you high desert or low- i have lived in both in flag i would always do fire first even in the summer phx summer not so much but 3 other seasons yes fire then shelter

wareagle69
12-12-2008, 08:30 AM
Same here Hope. I don't practice either one. I already know how to do both. For me it's kinda like taking a dump. All I need is the urge, location and opportunity.

ok maby i should have not put the word practice first- rephrase it as when out in the bush what do you do first. but you brought up another interesting point.

Sourdough
12-12-2008, 09:35 AM
Set up the tent. If there is a storage tent set it up next. Fires are only for burning trash. Fill the stove and lantern.

dolfan87
12-12-2008, 10:50 AM
hey are you high desert or low- i have lived in both in flag i would always do fire first even in the summer phx summer not so much but 3 other seasons yes fire then shelter

Low desert...I am in Lake Havasu. I spend a bit of time in the Williams area when I do go camping though...much nicer in the summer.

reluctantpawn
12-12-2008, 11:28 AM
I have spent too many nights in a cold camp. Shelter comes first. It may be a tent, a lean too from a poncho, or a debris hut.

I still like afire when I can have it though.:D I just don't think it is necessary much more than.comfort. But, then again I don't have much experience3 in the colder climates of the arctic or sub arctic.

reluctantpawn

wareagle69
12-12-2008, 02:10 PM
Low desert...I am in Lake Havasu. I spend a bit of time in the Williams area when I do go camping though...much nicer in the summer.

ah yes lake have a brew , i like williams also rode a few bull there but i like the kiabab very much also, my favoite is the cocconino though lots of fond memories of flagstaff have you ever explored wupaki national monument?

rockymtnchief
12-12-2008, 02:51 PM
ah yes lake have a brew , i like williams also rode a few bull there but i like the kiabab very much also, my favoite is the cocconino though lots of fond memories of flagstaff have you ever explored wupaki national monument?

You rode bulls? I just hung up my gear last year.

wareagle69
12-12-2008, 03:01 PM
yeah for a few years when i lived in arizona. i rode southwest series of the prca touring pro division when it exsisted and the gcpra (grand canyon not gay cowboy) as we liked to joke, hung up my gear almost 8 years ago last bull was on valentines day a money bull named forced labor at a jackpot rodeo in pheonix feature bull i was the last one out fell of 3 seconds in he landed on my ankle broke it good always hated him being the last as chris ledoux says "when you ride your last one make sure he's the best one tip your hat boys and walk away" would like to do one more someday

larmus
12-12-2008, 03:21 PM
fire then shelter with so little rain here gather as much fuel as possible then figure out shelter cause it gets cold between 12 and 6 in the morning and i dont have to worry about a dry place right away.

trax
12-12-2008, 03:24 PM
But, then again I don't have much experience3 in the colder climates of the arctic or sub arctic.reluctantpawn

....all the more reason to do your shelter first, protection from the elements will help maintaine core body temperature, which is what a person needs to do to stay alive in an emergency situation. Fire draws cold air to itself and doesn't do anything to stop your body from giving up heat unless you're basically sitting really really (read clothes catching fire) close.

tsitenha
12-12-2008, 03:31 PM
If you ain't wet don't fret, shelter first, get out of the wind, elements. Build your fire when your got cover, and then gather enough wood, sticks to do the eve till the morn, no use of wandering in the night tripping and a cussing to pick up more firewood.

Badawg
12-12-2008, 04:33 PM
I'm a shelter then fire type. These days in southern California you can't legally have fires in the back country other than the desert due to too many Yahoo's not knowing how to do it right, and ending up burning down the place. the '03 wildfire was caused by a lost hunter... Why he thought it was a good idea to start a big fire in 40MPH winds I will never understand...

There are ways of getting away with a fire around here if you do know what you are doing though, and it all has to do with keeping it off the ground, small, and well concealed. And If I am cold enough I consider it... In the desert it's another story, Perfectly fine to have a fire there, but you still have to deal with the winds, so it's still shelter, windbreak, and then a fire. Often my windbreak is a large boulder or two... Makes a great heat reflector.

rockymtnchief
12-12-2008, 04:40 PM
yeah for a few years when i lived in arizona. i rode southwest series of the prca touring pro division when it exsisted and the gcpra (grand canyon not gay cowboy) as we liked to joke, hung up my gear almost 8 years ago last bull was on valentines day a money bull named forced labor at a jackpot rodeo in pheonix feature bull i was the last one out fell of 3 seconds in he landed on my ankle broke it good always hated him being the last as chris ledoux says "when you ride your last one make sure he's the best one tip your hat boys and walk away" would like to do one more someday
I rode the Montana and Texas circuits, depending on where I was working at the time. My latest survival situation happened in Ft. Worth. Had my ribs run through my lung and liver and still had to get up and run too the fence with a2200 pound bull on my tail. The bullfighters drew him away as I collapsed at the gate. Then had to ride in an ambulance on cobblestone roads cussing while my ribs kept jamming into my organs.
(sorry to jack the thread):)

wareagle69
12-12-2008, 05:18 PM
I rode the Montana and Texas circuits, depending on where I was working at the time. My latest survival situation happened in Ft. Worth. Had my ribs run through my lung and liver and still had to get up and run too the fence with a2200 pound bull on my tail. The bullfighters drew him away as I collapsed at the gate. Then had to ride in an ambulance on cobblestone roads cussing while my ribs kept jamming into my organs.
(sorry to jack the thread):)

was you at billybobs? did ya have a vest on? ya know what they say it ain't if you get hurt its just when and how bad

Sam
12-12-2008, 05:39 PM
....all the more reason to do your shelter first, protection from the elements will help maintaine core body temperature, which is what a person needs to do to stay alive in an emergency situation. Fire draws cold air to itself and doesn't do anything to stop your body from giving up heat unless you're basically sitting really really (read clothes catching fire) close.

Hi Trax, you explained this to some ditz awhile back. You find/make cover first then try to build fire, because everything is wet and harder to light thus using more time energy than it is worth. And because the heat from a fire will pull the cold air right down on you. Two very good points by the way.

I like to build a shelter first most of the time, protects from weather so I don't loose more body heat.
-Sam

trax
12-12-2008, 05:48 PM
Same here Hope. I don't practice either one. I already know how to do both. For me it's kinda like taking a dump. All I need is the urge, location and opportunity.

Sir, in the situation you just used for comparison, I cannot stress emphatically enough, of the three criteria you named, the consideration one should put on location.

((Mall security guard: umm, sir...you can't do that here...

Individual focused on urge and opportunity (clearly not Trax) : You gotta magazine I could read while I'm here?))

klkak
12-13-2008, 12:31 AM
Set up the tent. If there is a storage tent set it up next. Fires are only for burning trash. Fill the stove and lantern.

Now thats what I'm talking about. :D

klkak
12-13-2008, 12:33 AM
Sir, in the situation you just used for comparison, I cannot stress emphatically enough, of the three criteria you named, the consideration one should put on location.

((Mall security guard: umm, sir...you can't do that here...

Individual focused on urge and opportunity (clearly not Trax) : You gotta magazine I could read while I'm here?))

Have much of this going on in Canadian malls?:confused:

palerider
12-13-2008, 09:25 AM
its all those alsakans coming over here, bad influence they are.

doug1980
12-13-2008, 01:30 PM
Quick question about the scenario here. Most have agreed that shelter is first, however if you were set on trying to hike out why bother setting up a shelter for one night? I honestly don't think there is a right or wrong answer nor one answer that will fit all situations.

palerider
12-13-2008, 01:50 PM
why are you set on hiking out? most lines of thought say to stay put until help arrives mostly likely you will have been able to call for help, but if you happen to be where there is no signal then the school of thought says to stay put, unless your life is in danger ie;forest fire avalanche, mudslide, flooding,. if you stay put you have a better chance at being found, but people differ, i guess if you are only two hours in the bush and you can follow the road out, it would be a judgment call

Sourdough
12-13-2008, 02:07 PM
For me it would be a matter of pride and selfworth.....to solve my problem if it was at all possible. Just shy of death would I want someone to come save my a$$. So if I could walk out, I would be walking. A plane crash would be different.

wareagle69
12-13-2008, 09:40 PM
yes hopeak the ego has been the death of many men especially in the wilds- i can understand it a man not wanting to be rescued because the tough macho woodsman would be ridiculed by his freinds pride should do you well then eh?

klkak
12-13-2008, 10:54 PM
Doug,
I assume you know where Metal Creek is. If you just lost your jeep in it and you got out alive and nobody knew where you were. Would you sit on a gravel bar, build a fire or shelter hoping someone will come rescue you or walk the 23 miles out to the highway? (no need to answer)
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

The original question even after the rephrase of post #7 is still a pointless question. It really doesn't matter which you do first unless there is some extenuating circumstances. One could say that they always build a fire first until one day they are out in the bush and its getting late and it starts to rain or snow. Suddenly that person decides to put up his shelter first thinking it is better to be cold and dry without a fire as to cold and wet trying to feed a fire all night.

By the way, If you think that because you have a fire that you will be warm then you haven't spent enough time in the bush. I know men who have lost fingers, toes and tip of ears and nose from frost bite trying to keep a fire going all night.

klkak
12-13-2008, 10:59 PM
Palerider, Hmmm. That name brings up a vision of an anemic nerd riding a 1950's Schwinn bicycle to a chess club meeting. Complete with black framed glass's with white tape holding them together.

doug1980
12-14-2008, 12:02 AM
Well not sure for me it's an ego thing. But if the scenario is my vehicle broke down and I could walk out I would walk. There are really few situations where you couldn't walk out to safety in my opinion. I mean if you got yourself out there you should be able to get yourself home, most of the time.

klkak
12-14-2008, 12:14 AM
Well not sure for me it's an ego thing. But if the scenario is my vehicle broke down and I could walk out I would walk. There are really few situations where you couldn't walk out to safety in my opinion. I mean if you got yourself out there you should be able to get yourself home, most of the time.

True, and if you can't get yourself home.......well heck aint that what friends are for!:rolleyes::D

wareagle69
12-14-2008, 10:01 AM
yeah doug you are probably correct most folks don't stray off the path nowadays, what with the quads, 4x4, snowmachines and such plus gps most folks just don't go wander in the desert for a week or pick a spot off an isolated road and say "meet me and destination x in a week." i think most have lost the true adventureing spirit. i personally am not a fan of motorized vehicles in the bush it really)^*)&^*&%(^&%^&*)&^*((_&*&^%^&$^%##)s with my zen, but i wonder about folks like wild woman and jason montana who go deep into the bush w/o the benifits of roads around if they make a wrong turn its a long walk out. even my self if you look at hiway 17 on the map in ontario and look north of where i live there ain't much there i could wander for weeks before coming to a road, now myself personaly i have studied natural navigation with my mentor but he does like to confuse me he will push hard deep into the bush all the while quizzing me on other things and i am supposed to pay attention to where i am going and answer all his questions then at the end of the day get us out w/o his help if i get us lost just means we are spending the night, but allot of men have gone into the bush and got lost and let the ego take over and have died seen it here in ontario and seen it in the desert and the mountains