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reluctantpawn
12-11-2008, 10:11 AM
O.K. people which do you think is more important, fire or shelter. Let's here from the forum members before I give my opinion.:)

reluctantpawn

dolfan87
12-11-2008, 10:37 AM
I am going to go with shelter. Staying out of the weather keeps a person warmer (or cooler if you live where I do) and helps to give the ole brain a sense of security.

Setting up camp for me is always shelter first, fire second.

HOP
12-11-2008, 10:40 AM
Generally speaking shelter first if possible, even a hole is shelter of sorts.

trax
12-11-2008, 10:43 AM
shelter 2345

rockymtnchief
12-11-2008, 11:15 AM
Shelter first. You can then build a small fire in your shelter or outside your shelter.

skunkkiller
12-11-2008, 11:25 AM
shelter.It can help block the wind, rain ,snow and so on to help get your fire going.

primeelite
12-11-2008, 11:28 AM
Shelter by far. With a shelter I can keep me and my gear dry and warmer/colder than if I were out in the wild. With a shelter you are also protected from many predators in the area and you have a place to base everything out of that won't get destroyed by weather continues such as a fire would.

bulrush
12-11-2008, 12:14 PM
I agree: shelter. It can keep you dry (important in cold weather) or cooler (in the desert).

tim
12-11-2008, 01:03 PM
shelter,and you can make a fire in side if its raining

tsitenha
12-11-2008, 01:50 PM
On a 100+ sunny day do you need a fire?...
but you just went through the ice -15c, got yourself out, now shelter or fire?
Depends on the situation doesn't it.
Generally a well chosen shelter first.

skunkkiller
12-11-2008, 03:57 PM
If You Went Through The Ice I Would Billed Afire And Shelter And Keep Moving Or Hypo. Will Set In And You Will Die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tsitenha
12-11-2008, 04:33 PM
If you went through the ice: gather fire items (tinder, kindling, wood and grasses) stomp down an area lay grasses to stand on, build a fire, then a shelter, gather whatever "isolation" layer under you and strip down to undies or less (whatever) wring out clothes, (wool can be re-worn near fire) and dry them by the fire using shelter as a wind/snow break. Make tea (hot water), drink and thank Creator for getting out and having woollies on.
PS Don't step back into another hole :eek:

crashdive123
12-11-2008, 05:09 PM
Depends (not the underware). In most cases shelter. As a couple have said, if you went through the ice fire would be my top priority.

Pict
12-11-2008, 05:55 PM
This is a real toss-up (I'm trying real hard not to say depends).

In wet/cold if it isn't still raining or I took a dunk I'd say big'ole fire, right now.

If wet/cold and it's still raining I'd create enough of a shelter to make a big'ole fire real soon.

If it was dry/cold I'd make a big'ole fire right now and then construct a shelter taking note of the wind conditions. It's nice to have a big fire to get warm.

In warm wet, like rainy season in Brazil, I typically work on my shelter first because a good shelter will keep you from getting soaked all night. That said if you don't have dry clothes to change into (sweats in a dry bag) then you WILL need a fire to get dry enough to stay warm. If you can dry your clothes and sleep in a shelter you'll be fine. If you don't dry your only set of clothes you will be miserable all night. Mac

snakeman
12-11-2008, 06:50 PM
It does depend on the situation but I'd say shelter would almost always come first. If it is raining, A fire won't keep you dry, and it may be hard to build one or keep it going in rain or wet weather. And a good debris shelter with a lot of bedding and thatch should keep you pretty warm. A fire always helps though.:D

Riverrat
12-11-2008, 06:59 PM
As some have said it is hard to say, it would depend on the situation. In the winter, fall through the ice, then fire, summer, spring, fall, regardless, would probably go for shelter.

Jericho117
12-11-2008, 08:42 PM
Depends on the situation- a normal emergency being lost in the forest requires shelter first. If you fall into ice a quick fire should obviosuly be important along with shelter. But blizzards and such require shelter first. I always prepare shelters first when setting up camp no matter what.

wareagle69
12-11-2008, 09:20 PM
too many variables to say. any answer can be picked apart with ya but what if- not a fair question

Runs With Beer
12-11-2008, 09:46 PM
Im going to have to go with Fire.

FVR
12-11-2008, 09:52 PM
Well since I'm a multi tasker, don't really matter. I'm going to have both.

And if I fall through the ice and manage to get out alive, going to strip down, dry off, and wrap myself in my wool blanket and make a fire, next to my shelter.

Ya know, you can actually make a shelter out of a fire. All you need is a downed tree, make the fire about 5' from the tree and get between the fire and the downfall.

Runs With Beer
12-11-2008, 10:00 PM
Thats what Im talking about, Nice move FYR.

FVR
12-11-2008, 10:08 PM
Many years ago, I did a rendezvous up here in the mountains. The Cherokee's set up in the open and played the drums all night. Awsome.

It was a cold wet night.

I, being me, made my lean to back in the bush, cleared out and since it was so freak'n cold, I built the fire a little out of arms reach from the lean to. I put what big wood I could find around the far side of the fire about a foot off so as to direct the heat into my lean to.

I also stocked up a small pile of logs just under the lean to, so I could just grab one and chuck it into the fire when it started to die. Suprisingly, it worked great as the wood under the lean to stayed just dry enough and kept the heat going all night.

Runs With Beer
12-11-2008, 10:12 PM
FIRE BmBmBm FIRE BmBmBm

klkak
12-11-2008, 11:28 PM
The question is relative to the situation you are in. So there is no way to answer the question without a set of parameters.

Jay
12-12-2008, 01:08 AM
If rain is imminent, I'll set up the shelter as fast as possible and then collect wood befor it starts to pour.
If I arrive at the site after dark (as happens on marches and on animal behaviour projects) I'd gather a few sticks and light a fire first.

on some occations no fire or shelter. Just a piece of canvas or a poncho. couple of biscuits and jerkey.

reluctantpawn
12-12-2008, 11:19 AM
I see many are from way up north. Here in the lower states we live a different life. From my experience it has to be shelter. But having said that, I am not well versed in arctic or sub arctic survival.

A well made debris hut or mound will keep you warm even when wet. In a torrential storm you might not be able to build a fire. I have even used hay rolls for warmth.

This brings me to my next topic, finding fire starting material in wet conditions. I generally find dry cedar or pine branches under a live tree. Another place is under a wash of a stream bed. Reach under and pull out a big handful of roots and grass, just watch for snakes they like it thee too. The turtles wont bother you.

What other fire making materials can you come up with in a wet environment? What you carry with you doesn't count!

reluctantpawn

crashdive123
12-12-2008, 07:17 PM
What other fire making materials can you come up with in a wet environment? What you carry with you doesn't count!

reluctantpawn

Ah, but that's why I carry it, so it most certainly does count.;)

klkak
12-13-2008, 12:27 AM
Who cares. If you get it wrong you will be the first to know and you probably wont make that mistake again!

palerider
12-13-2008, 09:24 AM
I see many are from way up north. Here in the lower states we live a different life. From my experience it has to be shelter. But having said that, I am not well versed in arctic or sub arctic survival.

A well made debris hut or mound will keep you warm even when wet. In a torrential storm you might not be able to build a fire. I have even used hay rolls for warmth.



What other fire making materials can you come up with in a wet environment? What you carry with you doesn't count!

reluctantpawn

this is an emergency right thtas the question fire vs shelter? have you ever made a debris hut? it takes hours and expendes too much energy sure its fun on a fall afternoon to build one heck me and wareagle are building a quinzi right now but i wouldn't do that in an emergency, ever walk in the bush during a rain storm lots of areas still dry find one and hunker down grab some dead fall for 2 reasons, one its s quick improvised shelter and two, a fire to stay warm by. if you are carring what you have learned here in your head and gear then you should have some sort of means of staying dry and warm to ride out what ever you get yourself into

wudshapr
12-13-2008, 05:12 PM
I would likely look to build a shelter first, but I would have the availability of fire building as a major factor in where I build the shelter. The shelter would be built based on the position of the fire, and the availability of fuel, working hand in hand. The question for me can best be answered by saying both. I would consider both while completing both tasks at almost the same time.

PipeBundle
12-14-2008, 11:40 AM
O.K. people which do you think is more important, fire or shelter. Let's here from the forum members before I give my opinion.:)

reluctantpawn

i'd have to say shelter almost always comes first, if only because you wouldn't generally build a fire just anywhere, you're probably gonna look for good spot to build it.

that's assuming you consider getting yourself off the bald wind-swept knob down into some kind of cover.

wareagle69
12-14-2008, 11:58 AM
actually this has made me curious i am going to run an experiment may take a couple of weeks but will let you know what i come up with

ClayPick
12-14-2008, 12:18 PM
Jack London's short story "To Build a Fire" has been one that always stayed with me. This time of the year i'm going with fire.

wudshapr
12-14-2008, 12:28 PM
yeah thats a great story, pretty intense. We will have a wind chill pushing -30 here tonight, maybe I should wander back into the woods around mid-afternoon for a test. Er. maybe not.

crashdive123
12-14-2008, 12:32 PM
You bring up a good point wudshapr. When deciding to go with fire or shelter first, I still say it depends on the situation. Wind chill of -30 --- maybe it's better to get out of the wind first. In any event, the situation - not some rule from a book or the internet will dictate what you need to do first. What is important is to understand those situations and act accordingly.

ryaninmichigan
12-14-2008, 01:43 PM
Depends on the weather. I know one thing genrally it's fire first. A fire has a way of changing moral..

crashdive123
12-14-2008, 02:07 PM
Depends on the weather. I know one thing genrally it's fire first. A fire has a way of changing moral..

Even in Guam during monsoon season? (yes, I used to live in Guam)

Stairman
12-14-2008, 09:57 PM
If its a warm night,fire,for light and moral.If its gonna be cccold then a stacked debris hut.Id sit against a tree with a trunk maybe wrist size and break it down just above my head for sitting up in,leaving it connected of course and facing the opening to the southeast.Breaking inside branches upward and adding more on top along with leaves,bark ect,and stuffing the inside to the rafters with leaves.A garbage bag full of leaves makes a good door plug.Wood for a fire would also be collected and ready for morning.If you havent slept in the cold in a debris hut stuffed inside and piled outside with leaves,do try it sometime.Two feet of leaves on top and the inside stuffed full around your body will keep you warm to near zero.Most of you know this already,Ive done it.Garbage bags help greatly in collecting and dumping debris where you want it.And can even be filled to sleep on or under.

klkak
12-15-2008, 01:43 AM
Jack London's short story "To Build a Fire" has been one that always stayed with me. This time of the year I'm going with fire.

"To build a fire" was not a lesson on when, where or how to build a fire in the far north. It was a story about a first class NUMPTY!!! It was about an arrogant idiot that thought to much of himself. The character in the story thought he knew more then the old timers that shared their wisdom with him.

Kind of reminiscent of some folks who show up on this forum and ask a question then get their feelings hurt by the answers they receive.

If you want to learn a lesson from this story. Let it be that nature is not your friend. Nature could care less whether you live or die. She is totally indifferent. No matter how much stuff you have or how good you think your survival knife is. No matter whether you build your shelter or fire first. You are an insignificant little pip-squeak and the only thing that will keep you alive is shear luck, Gods mercy or hard earned wisdom. And there may come a time when you will need all three.

ClayPick
12-15-2008, 02:20 AM
I never got anger out of it.

ryaninmichigan
12-15-2008, 10:35 AM
Even in Guam during monsoon season? (yes, I used to live in Guam)

Good Lord. Did you read my WHOLE post?

reluctantpawn
12-15-2008, 11:11 AM
palerider,
I do not know where you are but where I live a debris hut can be assembled in about 1 hour. Although practice does help. It should be just large enough to crawl into and not much more than about 2 feet high. Just big enough to crawl into. Layered with leaves and branches for another 1to 2 feet. It will keep you warm and toasty even when you are wet. When properly assembled it will also keep you dry.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

crashdive123
12-15-2008, 03:48 PM
Good Lord. Did you read my WHOLE post?

Yep, all twenty words.

Jericho117
12-15-2008, 08:29 PM
You actually just described a ready made fire wall to reflect heat- FVR.

Jericho117
12-15-2008, 08:31 PM
I love debris huts, make them all the time. Stuffing your clothing with dry leaves or grass also aids in insulation have you go without fire for a night or two. Learned that one from just plain experience, like to experiement with things.

wareagle69
12-15-2008, 08:59 PM
What other fire making materials can you come up with in a wet environment? What you carry with you doesn't count!

reluctantpawn[/QUOTE]

very simple, i always carry in my left front pocket the small version of the seirra saw.i cut thru two forarm sized branches then use my buck fixed blade knife and one of the branches and cut thru the first branch stripping it down into feather sticks and kindling and then use my swedish firesteel to start my fire.
class dismissed.

hermitman
12-15-2008, 09:04 PM
like people on this site have said before it depends on the situation you have to be able to adapt if you don't it could cost you BIG TIME

rrsnook
12-15-2008, 09:41 PM
If you want to learn a lesson from this story. Let it be that nature is not your friend. Nature could care less whether you live or die. She is totally indifferent. No matter how much stuff you have or how good you think your survival knife is. No matter whether you build your shelter or fire first. You are an insignificant little pip-squeak and the only thing that will keep you alive is shear luck, Gods mercy or hard earned wisdom. And there may come a time when you will need all three.[/QUOTE]

One of the best quotes I have read in this forum.

ryaninmichigan
12-15-2008, 10:32 PM
Yep, all twenty words.

Then what about "Depends on the weather" did you not understand? If it is raining like it is cool then ya I think shelter is first. If I am lost in the north woods of birch and pine with no wind or rain threat then fire is first. I can and have spent the night with nothing more then fire. So again I ask what about “Depends on the weather” do you not understand? My god stuff like this is so common here. “What would you build first, shelter or fire? Well I would build DEPENDING on the weather fire first. Well what if it was raining? Seriously? Good God. This is why I have quit coming here.

crashdive123
12-15-2008, 10:40 PM
Well RiM, my comment wasn't intended to cause a rant. One of the things you said was
I know one thing genrally it's fire first. and as you have pointed out in your subsequent posts, that is not correct. It does depend on the weather. It also depends on the climate that you find yourself. For a beautiful, sunny, windter day in your neck of the woods a fire may be best. In Guam, with the temperatures approaching 120* F and rains coming a 4 pm sharp, probably not. Why you come or go is your business. If a post like I made causes you to go.......well I guess that says enough.

ryaninmichigan
12-15-2008, 10:46 PM
Well it is pointless to argue which is first Because we are in diffirent places. I called out weather and you still chose to fire at it....

crashdive123
12-15-2008, 10:50 PM
Ryan - that was the whole point of my post. We are all in different locations, with different climates. There is no correct answer, as it depends on the situation. That's the only point I was trying to make.

klkak
12-16-2008, 02:55 AM
:confused:Didn't I make a post earlier in this thread that mentioned something about.................dang its right on the tip of my tongue...........oh, I'm starting to remember............oh yea now I got it.

The question is relative to the situation you are in. So there is no way to answer the question without a set of parameters.

Ryan, if you want to get good solid responses to a thread then try using the following check list.

1. Take foot out of mouth.

2. Engage your brain.

3. Make sure you know what you are talking about. If you don't have at least some expertise on the subject stop here.

If you have some knowledge of the topic, continue.

4. Form a complete sentence in your head before typing it.

5. Read the sentence to see if it makes sense.

6. Run the spell check feature.

7. Read it again to make sure it still makes sense.

8. Post the comment.

9. Read it again and use the edit feature if it needs correcting


:D:D:D:D

Jericho117
12-16-2008, 06:42 PM
I think I know who starts arguements all the time. I beleive nature has no sex, it is not an object, just vast earth of different plants and animals, nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't care about people becuase "it" has no feelings, and survival is based on ones ability, not from gods muscle or from luck. Just my opinion.

skunkkiller
12-16-2008, 06:48 PM
there is no luck in the willderness

ryaninmichigan
12-16-2008, 10:01 PM
:confused:Didn't I make a post earlier in this thread that mentioned something about.................dang its right on the tip of my tongue...........oh, I'm starting to remember............oh yea now I got it.


Ryan, if you want to get good solid responses to a thread then try using the following check list.

1. Take foot out of mouth.

2. Engage your brain.

3. Make sure you know what you are talking about. If you don't have at least some expertise on the subject stop here.

If you have some knowledge of the topic, continue.

4. Form a complete sentence in your head before typing it.

5. Read the sentence to see if it makes sense.

6. Run the spell check feature.

7. Read it again to make sure it still makes sense.

8. Post the comment.

9. Read it again and use the edit feature if it needs correcting


:D:D:D:D



WTF are you talking about? I had a VERY clear post. someone else chose to read only part.

klkak
12-16-2008, 10:09 PM
I think I know who starts arguements all the time.
I don't start arguments young man. Some folks just can't stand it when another calls them on what they have said.


I believe nature has no sex, it is not an object, just vast earth of different plants and animals, nothing more, nothing less.
If nature has no gender then how is it that it has birthed all the things that live on it?

Why has it been called "Mother Nature" or "Mother Earth" and been revered by so many peoples throughout history as the "Mother? of all things if it is anything but female?


It doesn't care about people because "it" has no feelings,
I totally agree with you on this.


and survival is based on ones ability
Ones abilities amount to "diddly squat"! Wisdom is what keeps you and it takes years to gain wisdom. But, even if you have abundant wisdom and make all the right decisions you can still end up as worm fodder.

So what does that leave you with if not: Gods mercy and shear luck?


Just my opinion.
It is a rare time when a smart young mans opinion carries any weight with a wise old man.

klkak
12-16-2008, 10:16 PM
WTF are you talking about? I had a VERY clear post. someone else chose to read only part.

"WTF" is a euphemism for a very impolite phrase. I would ask that you refrain from using such expressions. It wouldn't hurt anyones feelings if you edited it out of you post either.:)

crashdive123
12-16-2008, 10:48 PM
WTF are you talking about? I had a VERY clear post. someone else chose to read only part.

Actually RiM, I read the entire post as I stated. Let's take a look at it and a few subsequent posts shall we?
Depends on the weather. I know one thing genrally it's fire first. A fire has a way of changing moral.. Now here you do in fact say it depends on the weather in the first statement. In the second sentence you cloud the situation by stating
I know one thing genrally it's fire first. So what is it? Does it depend on the weather, or is it generally the first thing? As far as the third statement, I doubt that having fire or not will do anything to change your morals. Morale maybe, but morals - probably not. Then some of the drama starts.
Good Lord. Did you read my WHOLE post? Rather than simply ask what I meant when I said even in Guam......Then you continue with the drama.
Then what about "Depends on the weather" did you not understand? If it is raining like it is cool then ya I think shelter is first. If I am lost in the north woods of birch and pine with no wind or rain threat then fire is first. I can and have spent the night with nothing more then fire. So again I ask what about “Depends on the weather” do you not understand? My god stuff like this is so common here. “What would you build first, shelter or fire? Well I would build DEPENDING on the weather fire first. Well what if it was raining? Seriously? Good God. This is why I have quit coming here. I asked about Guam to emphasize the point that there is no correct answer without more details. You seem to agree with that in this post, yet you posted that you know one thing and it's generally fire first. So in essence you are agreeing with me. So chosing to only read part of your post? Not hardly.

ryaninmichigan
12-16-2008, 10:55 PM
In hind sight this was uncalled for

Runs With Beer
12-16-2008, 11:03 PM
Another one bites the dust.

Sarge47
12-16-2008, 11:22 PM
Okay reluctant pawn, let's get down to brass tacks! What time of day is it, or is it night? Where the crap am I? woods, plains, desert, the freakin' North Pole? Oh, and what season is it? Am I in my car, on foot, in a city, lost in the woods, at a Who Concert, what, where, when, why, & how?
sorry dude, insufficent data. :eek::cool: How do you light a fire in the rain? USE DRY WOOD! sheesh!:D

klkak
12-17-2008, 03:01 AM
I Am Out **** You Klkak......

:confused:HUH:confused:

AKS
12-17-2008, 09:01 AM
Awww, someone went and got their feelers hurt.

klkak- Looks like the mean post was cause he is embarrassed that you didn't respect his opinion. There is no excuse for it and temper tantrums like that have no business in this forum.

Ryaninmichigan- If you can't handle what some one is typing at you, you might want to try sending them a PM to see if you can resolve your issue or just ignore them. Tends to help keep you from looking like a hole in the mud.

reluctantpawn
12-17-2008, 01:42 PM
O. K. Sarge!

It is mid afternoon.
Early spring
It is in a forrested area about 5k feet
It has been raining steady for about three days
You are Lost
You have been a victim of a plane crash so you do not have your regular supplies
your ipod ran down so you can't listen to the Who::rolleyes:

good enough or do you want more

reluctantpawn

klkak
12-17-2008, 01:46 PM
Awww, someone went and got their feelers hurt.

klkak- Looks like the mean post was cause he is embarrassed that you didn't respect his opinion. There is no excuse for it and temper tantrums like that have no business in this forum.

Ryaninmichigan- If you can't handle what some one is typing at you, you might want to try sending them a PM to see if you can resolve your issue or just ignore them. Tends to help keep you from looking like a hole in the mud.

Ha ha...."hole in the mud"....ha ha...,

I'm gonna remember that one!:D

klkak
12-17-2008, 01:49 PM
Looks like the mean post was cause he is embarrassed that you didn't respect his opinion.

:confused:I didn't respect his opinion?:confused:

Abbot, I'm a baaaaaad boy!:(

Sarge47
12-17-2008, 01:54 PM
O. K. Sarge!

It is mid afternoon.
Early spring
It is in a forrested area about 5k feet
It has been raining steady for about three days
You are Lost
You have been a victim of a plane crash so you do not have your regular supplies
your ipod ran down so you can't listen to the Who::rolleyes:

good enough or do you want more

reluctantpawn

Since I've got some daylight I build the shelter 1st, then gather wood for the fire. I find DRY wood by scraping off the outer layer of the WET wood & build a toasty fire. I got plenty of food from the plane. (No other survivors so I got plenty of "Long Pig".) I use the plane wreckage for certain parts of my shelter & any airplane fuel I can get a hold of to help me get the damp wood burning! BTW, if I've been here as long as it's raining the planes transponder would have signaled rescuers long before now. Oh, & there will be plenty of stuff from the plane to use. Surely one of the corpses has a cell phone & a lighter, quitye possibly a GPS; however I never get on a plane so this can't be real!:cool:

klkak
12-17-2008, 02:24 PM
It is mid afternoon.
Early spring
It is in a forrested(only 1 "R" in forested) area about 5k feet
It has been raining steady for about three days
You are Lost
You have been a victim of a plane crash so you do not have your regular supplies
your ipod ran down so you can't listen to the Who

Now we are getting somewhere.

OK, the first thing I would do is......,umm......,sorry:o......What area of the world are we in?

Early spring is not the same in New Mexico as it is in Northern British Columbia or South Africa.

Oh never mind. I'll pretend its in my area. (by the way it usually don't rain in early spring in my area)

1. Turn on the aircrafts Emergency Locater Beacon.

2. Get out the aircrafts tool kit and remove the tail wheel. (it's early spring so the plane probably sill has ski's on the front gear) Take the tail wheel a few yards away from the plane and set it down and let the air out of it. Go back to the plane. Tear out a piece of foam cushion from one of the seats, take it up to the engine. Remove the crank case drain plug and soak the piece of foam rubber with engine oil. Take it over to the tire and smear oil on the tire then set the piece of foam rubber on the tire.

3. Go back to the plane and take all the seat cushions and use them to make me a comfortable place to sit. I would then bundle up and wait. If I had to spend the night I would use the aircraft for shelter.

4. When I hear the spotter plane coming or hear the rescue chopper coming I will go out to the tire with the oil on it and light the piece of foam rubber on fire. It would set the oil on the tire on fire which would set the tire on fire creating a large plume of black smoke and a flame making it easier for the search party to find my exact location.:D

How'd I do? Did I pass? Do I get a prize?:)

MCBushbaby
12-17-2008, 02:40 PM
Now we are getting somewhere.

OK, the first thing I would do is......,umm......,sorry:o......What area of the world are we in?

Early spring is not the same in New Mexico as it is in Northern British Columbia or South Africa.

Oh never mind. I'll pretend its in my area. (by the way it usually don't rain in early spring in my area)

1. Turn on the air crafts Emergency Locater Beacon.

2. Get out the air crafts tool kit and remove the tail wheel. (it's early spring so the plane probably sill has ski's on the front gear) Take the tail wheel a few yards away from the plane and set it down and let the air out of it. Go back to the plane. Tear out a piece of foam cushion from one of the seats, take it up to the engine. Remove the crank case drain plug and soak the piece of foam rubber with engine oil. Take it over to the tire and smear oil on the tire then set the piece of foam rubber on the tire.

3. Go back to the plane and take all the seat cushions and use them to make me a comfortable place to sit. I would then bundle up and wait. If I had to spend the night I would use the air craft for shelter.

4. When I hear the spotter plane coming or hear the rescue chopper coming I will go out to the tire with the oil on it and light the piece of foam rubber on fire. It would set the oil on the tire on fire which would set the tire on fire creating a large plume of black smoke and a flame making it easier for the search party to find my exact location.:D

How'd I do? Did I pass? Do I get a prize?:)

Not going to start lambasting your expert aviation mechanic and electronic skills, but let's critique something simple: How did you start the fire? With what? How long does it take to get a fire going and that smoke to rise to a height visible to a plane? And, most importantly, WHY DIDN'T YOU HAVE A FIRE STARTED PRIOR TO HEARING THE PLANE FOR EASY SIGNAL IGNITION? (caps for priority, not emphasis... well, emphasis too)

klkak
12-17-2008, 03:15 PM
Not going to start lambasting your expert aviation mechanic and electronic skills, but let's critique something simple:


How did you start the fire? With what?
The fire steel in my left thigh pocket or the pilots lighter or the air crafts battery or...,


How long does it take to get a fire going and that smoke to rise to a height visible to a plane?
Considering I'm using engine oil as an accelerant it wont take long. Besides I'm in and area that is completely blanketed in snow. It don't take to much black smoke to be seen from the air.


WHY DIDN'T YOU HAVE A FIRE STARTED PRIOR TO HEARING THE PLANE FOR EASY SIGNAL IGNITION?
The searchers are following the ELB signal so they already have a good idea of where I am. Setting the tire on fire is just an additional marker once I know they are in the area. So why waste my time, effort and available fuel? The temps in my area in early spring are in the 20's so there is little chance I'll be freeze to death any time soon.

MCBushbaby
12-17-2008, 03:22 PM
alright, alright. You win the cookie. nomnomnom

reluctantpawn
12-17-2008, 03:23 PM
geesh I knew when I gave specifics somebody would jump the gun and do something with it out of context.:rolleyes: We now have skis, oil cushions and a lot of plane parts, oh and let's not forget the bar-b-que long pig. While we are at it why not just stay by the plane and use it for shelter? Let's stay with the spirit of the topic. You can only use what you find in nature. Like the split tree limbs.

Off topic did anyone see the youtube video on starting a fire with a potato?

reluctantpawn

klkak
12-17-2008, 03:37 PM
geesh I knew when I gave specifics somebody would jump the gun and do something with it out of context.:rolleyes: We now have skis, oil cushions and a lot of plane parts, oh and let's not forget the bar-b-que long pig. While we are at it why not just stay by the plane and use it for shelter? Let's stay with the spirit of the topic. You can only use what you find in nature. Like the split tree limbs.

reluctantpawn

Don't forget you are the one that set the parameters.


It is mid afternoon.
Early spring
It is in a forrested area about 5k feet
It has been raining steady for about three days
You are Lost
You have been a victim of a plane crash so you do not have your regular supplies

Now if we have a perfectly good crashed air plane right there, why in the world would we go scrounging around in the woods for materials?:confused:

Anyone who has the attitude and will to survive will use everything at their disposal. To include the air plane!:eek::D

edit: I did say I would use the aircraft for shelter!:D

If I had to spend the night I would use the aircraft for shelter.

crashdive123
12-17-2008, 03:54 PM
AKS Said -
Tends to help keep you from looking like a hole in the mud.

Klkak Said -
Ha ha...."hole in the mud"....ha ha...,

I'm gonna remember that one!

I read it a bit different . a hole in the mud.

klkak
12-17-2008, 04:34 PM
I read it a bit different . a hole in the mud.

I have some ink blotches for you to look at.

reluctantpawn
12-17-2008, 04:47 PM
It's my game I make the rules and if you don't like it I will take my perfectly good crashed airplane and go home and pout!:D

reluctantpawn

klkak
12-17-2008, 05:39 PM
It's my game I make the rules and if you don't like it I will take my perfectly good crashed airplane and go home and pout!:D

reluctantpawn

(muttering...spoiled little bratt!)

hermitman
12-17-2008, 05:54 PM
I was thinking about it and if I had to choose one without knowing the situation I would say shelter because of the fact of how many people die just from exposure.

Sarge47
12-17-2008, 06:05 PM
It's my game I make the rules and if you don't like it I will take my perfectly good crashed airplane and go home and pout!:D

reluctantpawn
Oh, so it's just a GAME now is it? I thought you were trying to be serious. RP, you've just proven a point that I continue to make on this forum: Many that come on here don't have a clue what Survival means. In a true survival situation you're going to use anything that you can lay your hands on, even if it's man-made. As Les Stroud has pointed out time & time again; No matter how desolate an area you find yourself in, there will always be signs of human litter. (Usually discarded by Bear Grylls Camera crew, I'm thinking:D) If you wanna do it right why not this: It's the rainy season & you're out West camping in an arryeo. Because you're not the "brightest crayon in the box" you ignore the sound of the thunder storm way up in the mountains. You enjoy sleeping in your boxers & strip down, climb into your sleeping bag & go to sleep..........only to be awakened by the thunderous crash of waves coming from the flash flood that has just washed you & your campsite away. You somehow manage to get out of your sleeping bag & tent; then, spotting a branch jutting out from the side of the canyon wall you grab onto it and pull your almost naked, shivering body out of the malstrom up onto dry land. The storm that started way up in the mountains has followed the flood & is pouring rain down on top of you as you begin to notice signs of hypothermia....what do you do? You only have your boxers. Go for it!:eek:

(the mighty zen-master survivalist rises regally, scrtching his tush, goes off to find another Twinkie.:rolleyes:)

RangerXanatos
12-17-2008, 06:11 PM
Take off my boxers, spread my legs about shoulders length apart, bend over, and kiss my tail goodbye.

BruceZed
12-17-2008, 06:20 PM
Fire is the "Great Equalizer" (i.e. It will make up for many of your mistakes), but in some conditions Shelter may be more important. The reality is they are both fundamental skills and 99% of the time it will not be a choice between the two, it will be how to use the two together for you best advantage.

http://boreal.net/Courses/sur2wint/images/wilderness-cooking-01.jpg

Sarge47
12-17-2008, 06:27 PM
Fire is the "Great Equalizer" (i.e. It will make up for many of your mistakes), but in some conditions Shelter may be more important. The reality is they are both fundamental skills and 99% of the time it will not be a choice between the two, it will be how to use the two together for you best advantage.

http://boreal.net/Courses/sur2wint/images/wilderness-cooking-01.jpg
Hi Bruce! Glad you could weigh in on this one!:cool:

klkak
12-17-2008, 06:38 PM
Oh, so it's just a GAME now is it? I thought you were trying to be serious. RP, you've just proven a point that I continue to make on this forum: Many that come on here don't have a clue what Survival means. In a true survival situation you're going to use anything that you can lay your hands on, even if it's man-made. As Les Stroud has pointed out time & time again; No matter how desolate an area you find yourself in, there will always be signs of human litter. (Usually discarded by Bear Grylls Camera crew, I'm thinking:D) If you wanna do it right why not this: It's the rainy season & you're out West camping in an arryeo. Because you're not the "brightest crayon in the box" you ignore the sound of the thunder storm way up in the mountains. You enjoy sleeping in your boxers & strip down, climb into your sleeping bag & go to sleep..........only to be awakened by the thunderous crash of waves coming from the flash flood that has just washed you & your campsite away. You somehow manage to get out of your sleeping bag & tent; then, spotting a branch jutting out from the side of the canyon wall you grab onto it and pull your almost naked, shivering body out of the malstrom up onto dry land. The storm that started way up in the mountains has followed the flood & is pouring rain down on top of you as you begin to notice signs of hypothermia....what do you do? You only have your boxers. Go for it!:eek:

(the mighty zen-master survivalist rises regally, scrtching his tush, goes off to find another Twinkie.:rolleyes:)

In an effort to keep warm.....I would stand up....start running around in circles screaming at the top of my lungs "We're all gonna die, we're all gonna die. while pulling my hair out by the handfuls until I trip, hit my head on a rock and knock myself unconscious and sleep peacefully until morning.

How'd I do? Did I pass? Do I get a prize?

palm stalker
12-17-2008, 07:52 PM
ok ive been a member a few days,lurking for several weeks..ive read this tread thru,all post.. it seams like a snowball,it just gets bigger,with no reselution.i can answer it or add to it,with a simple questain,,(what does a 85 yo smell like????)

chiggersngrits
12-17-2008, 11:26 PM
ok ive been a member a few days,lurking for several weeks..ive read this tread thru,all post.. it seams like a snowball,it just gets bigger,with no reselution.i can answer it or add to it,with a simple questain,,(what does a 85 yo smell like????)

Depends??????

Dragonfyre
12-18-2008, 10:44 AM
Depending on the time of day and season, I'd pick shelter first. Then fire.

tacticalguy
12-23-2008, 06:02 PM
Definitely shelter. You need to hunker down before it gets too dark or cold. Fire if possible would probably be my next priority.

Gray Wolf
01-12-2009, 08:34 PM
Ya know, you can actually make a shelter out of a fire.

You can also make a fire out of the shelter... :D

Gray Wolf
01-12-2009, 08:39 PM
I agree with WE, to many variables... I think Bruce is saying the same.

Ziggy
01-12-2009, 10:21 PM
Shelter. Even after an ice dunk, I'd remove clothing, find shelter then a fire to warm both. It'd keep you mobile, and you could still shiver to death trying to build a fire with no shelter to protect you...

sniperfx
01-13-2009, 04:31 PM
shelter first.