Serial numbers on bullets.

[marylp]

Dont know if anyone has heard, but I heard at work yesterday (law enforcement) that they are going to start putting serial #'s on all bullets, that is going to be expensive and going to raise the price on ammo alot. Just another way to "Big Brother" us. Everytime you buy them someone will be keeping tabs.

[Sarge47]

My wife forwarded this to me as the ammo thing is "state by state".:cool:

>>>>Beware of Ammunition Accountability Legislation in Your State

This is not gun control, it is gun control through ammunition control,
write, call and email your state legislators.

http://ammunitionaccountability.org/Legislation.htm<<<<:cool:

[crashdive123]

Dont know if anyone has heard, but I heard at work yesterday (law enforcement) that they are going to start putting serial #'s on all bullets, that is going to be expensive and going to raise the price on ammo alot. Just another way to "Big Brother" us. Everytime you buy them someone will be keeping tabs.

The aniti-gunners have been trying to do this for quite some time now. Hopefully it will not ever go through. Can you imagine CMA1984756385X9674A67774000999999F888U7365198883 beein stamped on a .22 bullet?

[red lake]

What is the worry? If you use you firearms responsibly who cares?!

It is those who are careless with their weapons and ammunition that should be worried.

[crashdive123]

What is the worry? If you use you firearms responsibly who cares?!

It is those who are careless with their weapons and ammunition that should be worried.

Not sure what you are paying for ammunition now, but this would drastically increase the price. It is also IMO an attempt by those that wish to ban guns to do so in the US. Registering ammo? Next - what? Look at those countries that have "innocently" registered fire arms. First step (also IMO) to confiscation of those weapons. How's the gun registry program in your neck of the woods working out? How about our friends in Australlia?

[Riverrat]

The gun registry is great, at least according to the politicians, if you are a crook I am sure you will register you gun nice and legal like.

[trax]

Seriously, Red Lake...every time you want to buy ammunition the gov't needs to know? why? because that's going to be as effective at stopping bad guys as the current gun registration is? OK. The Manitoba govt is putting a ban on bear spray because of the potential of someone using it as a weapon. Now, personally, I don't think I'm much of a fan of bear spray when it comes to bear confrontations, but the idea is...uh yeah, it's a weapon. Maybe they should outlaw barbecue/grilling tools, you got that big fork and a long knife...deadly man.

I might have posted this before, but I think it's relevant food for thought here..true story. A couple of weeks ago a cop stopped me when I was walking down the highway. He kept asking me for my ID. I said "we've established that I haven't done anything wrong" He said, "yes sir, we just need it for our records" I asked, "you keep records of people who aren't doing anything wrong?"

[red lake]

I am just not that paranoid. If somebody wants to know what I do all day they must live a pretty boring life. I live my life as I choose an that lies within the confines of the law. The Gman are the least of our concerns. We should all be worried about the utility companies, now there is something to fear.

As far as the price of ammo going up, how much ammo do you use (never mind don't answer that because that would reveal too much) but if ammo goes up 100% which it won't, you are going to be out another $100 per year? $200? $20?

[Chris]

Sounds dumb to me.

1. I assume this is on the shell casing, not the bullet right? A serial number on a bullet would be rather pointless wouldn't it? It'd have to have a lot of digits and you're telling me more than a few of them won't be rubbed off on impact?

2. So the murderer just picks up his casings. Or uses a revolver and doesn't eject them until he is home.

3. Or just steals the bullets... which reminds me, this way you'd have to do background checks for ammo purchases, verify ID, all that fun stuff, what a waste of time.

4. Or makes his own rounds at home, lots of people do it.

Seems like a waste of time and effort.

[Ole WV Coot]

Now this sounds just dumb enough to be "politically correct". The last ammo I bought was a few weeks ago. Walked in told the guy what I wanted, paid and walked out the door. No ID check, darn sure wasn't asked if I was 21. Next time probably fill out an "application" and have a waiting period.

[kx250kev]

Along those lines, I heard today that India has very strict gun laws and very few police officers are actually armed. They are only issued 30 bullets, and they must be accounted for constantly. (There is no practice shooting in India.) I think ammo serialization is just a "new" gun control strategy for America IMHO. The cost to mass produce uniquely serialized bullets is going to cause ammo prices to skyrocket. Imagine paying $100+ per box of ammo.

[sgtdraino]

This sounds like one of those fake chain emails to me. I don't think it's even possible to put serial numbers on bullets. To me, that sounds ridiculous. (a) the number would be too long, and (b) the number would be destroyed when the bullet hit the target. I call fake.

[Sourdough]

I kind of remember a plan to put a number on the fireing pin, which would transfer to the primer.

[sgtdraino]

I kind of remember a plan to put a number on the fireing pin, which would transfer to the primer.

That at least is true, but the idea behind the technology was flawed. The firing pin tends to not stamp the primer legibly. Plus, as more rounds are fired, the firing pin gets worn a bit and the teeny tiny numbers wear off. Finally, it is super easy for any criminal to remove the numbers from the firing pin with just a few minutes' filing.

[crashdive123]

This sounds like one of those fake chain emails to me. I don't think it's even possible to put serial numbers on bullets. To me, that sounds ridiculous. (a) the number would be too long, and (b) the number would be destroyed when the bullet hit the target. I call fake.

Just Google serial numbers on bullets. Several state legislatures are considering it. At least one (maybe more) have already passed it. It is just a defacto way to "ban" ammunition. Micro stamping would add heavily to the cost and right now there is only one (small) manufacturer capable of doing it.

[crashdive123]

Sgtdraino - here is a link to some info on the topic published by the NRA. http://www.nrapublications.org/oj/nobullets.asp

[Pict]

I think they will just be creating an enforcement nightmare for themselves that will cost way out of proportion to its utility. If a fraction of that kind of money would be spent on upgrading the technology to ID bullets fired in crimes then the same effect would actually happen.

There is a tipping point beyond which many people would weigh the chance of becoming a criminal against the chance of getting caught. Ammo would just be buried or sold off cheap which would flood the black market with ammo. This is the history of draconian gun bans world wide. I already lived through it in Brazil. There we have a 50 round per year ammo purchase limit. Criminals just import it by the shipload. In the US the capacity to manufacture ammo exists in countless sheds and workshops. There is no way a law like this would have any impact on the nations ability to feed small arms. Mac

[skunkkiller]

well I guess its time to go back to muzzle loader shoot shot or bullets make your own . You can make your own powder if need be. No place to put a number.........

[trax]

I am just not that paranoid. If somebody wants to know what I do all day they must live a pretty boring life. I live my life as I choose an that lies within the confines of the law. The Gman are the least of our concerns. We should all be worried about the utility companies, now there is something to fear.

As far as the price of ammo going up, how much ammo do you use (never mind don't answer that because that would reveal too much) but if ammo goes up 100% which it won't, you are going to be out another $100 per year? $200? $20?

You think it's cool that police feel a need to keep records on people that aren't doing anything wrong? Man the Berlin Wall coming down must have been a heartbreak for you. Paranoid has nothing to do with right or wrong. As far as ammo prices, any amount extra I'm paying because of a stupid rule is too much, but I actually agree that it's probably never really going to happen, Chris's points make sense

[Ole WV Coot]

We are becoming a country that has to be politically correct in everything. The UN is a joke, countries that have kids with AKs want to dictate control on small arms to US. No weapons in some countries, need a "reason" to carry a pocket knife in England, gun ban in Australia. We elect ignorance so I guess we ask for it. If I could afford bodyguards and live in a neighborhood like a few I know in Northern VA I could look down on the "barbarians" that think they need to protect themselves and tell them it's nice and safe everywhere. That's my sermon for the day, time to go kick the dog.

[old soldier]

I'll try to remember to put a number on my musket balls.

[ClovisMan]

I'm glad I live in Texas!!! The only way this would be imposed in my state is if the Federal Government passed it as a law. With Obama turning out to be more conservative with his cabinet picks, I don't think this will be a problem during his tenure.
On a side note, I am thinking about learning how to reload bullets.

[yukon55]

pfffffh! thats y you buy out the local gun shop of all the ammo..... example 12ga shot gun or 22.

[crashdive123]

You may want to read the link Yukon.

[LudwigVan]

With the economy in it's current shape I doubt this will happen in the next couple years.

Speaking of the economy, politicians should support the gun industry. It's one of the most stable industries in the country, it would be pretty dumb to run them nearly out of business over some crap that won't do anything at all for crime.

[red lake]

You think it's cool that police feel a need to keep records on people that aren't doing anything wrong? Man the Berlin Wall coming down must have been a heartbreak for you. Paranoid has nothing to do with right or wrong. As far as ammo prices, any amount extra I'm paying because of a stupid rule is too much, but I actually agree that it's probably never really going to happen, Chris's points make sense

It is not that I think it is cool or not, I just don't care. It does not affect the way I live my life. Why is you call me a communist when I say I don't care what the government does?:confused:

Stupid rules are abound and cost us all. They are there to protect stupid people. We could take warning labels off of everything and let Darwinism take over:)

[crashdive123]

Red Lake - I understand your position, and that's fine. The HUGE difference for me is that here, I have a Constitutional right that some disagree with and are trying to take away. I took an oath on several occasions to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States. I still hold those words very dear to my heart.

[kx250kev]

Crashdive123: Something like this right...I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

I too believe in the importance of upholding our Constitution. Thanks for your service.

[crashdive123]

Yep, those are the words. And thank you.

[marberry]

ever think that maby it would be better to adopt a policy that does not allow any weapons possession whatsoever by anyone , japan has that sort of policy and it seems to do far better then north americas. maby even give the entire population a mood suppressant like ritalin or something stronger so people dont feel the negative emotions that cause violence. if no-one has the capability for violence then violence shouldn't even happen. suppress the basic human instincts that society doesnt like and then man kind can focus its entire effort on the advancement of itself. i think freedom of speech and thought is a small price to pay for a society that is free of hate and anger. if people no longer wanted anything for themselves they they would be willing to give what they have for the benefit of the whole. eliminate some of the basic human instincts because they dont fit in with (or are required by) the advanced society we live in, and infact they are the only thing that is keeping the human race from advancing to what we have decided it should be by the laws we have created, the society that humanities natural path lead to. just throwing the idea out there to hear your opinions.

[crashdive123]

Do you really want opinions on what you just threw out?

[Riverrat]

I was going to give one, then the Ritalin kicked in, so don't have one anymore....I really hope he is not serious!

[tsitenha]

Marcraft, Japanese do have "weapons" depending by your interpretation of the word. They do have firearms, though they have to go to difficult procedures to get them, plus the have all kinds of cutting "weapons" Nihon-to included (Samurai sword). Crime rates is about the same as here except that criminals freely admit guilt if caught and the trial is quite a bit shorter than here.
As far as Yakusa well that kind of element gets whatever "weapons" they need same as all the other criminal organizations across the world.

[Sarge47]

Yeah, right, "wet's all put our itty bitty gunsie wunsies in a pile & not hurt anybody anymore!" That's just pure fantasy. Know what they call an unarmed civilian living in an a high-crime area where "Bangers" carry Ak's & Glocks? A victim!:eek::cool:

[marberry]

im saying mandatory brainwashing on ALL people on the planet not just civillians like every other law to exist is meant for.

[crashdive123]

im saying mandatory brainwashing on ALL people on the planet not just civillians like every other law to exist is meant for.

I know that you have related some troubles that you have recently had, and I truely wish you the best of luck. Posting krap like this will garner you very little support from anybody, anywhere.

[Ole WV Coot]

Good Lord !!! I completely agree with Remy, very well too I must add. Now back to the "home" my meds await.

[marberry]

im thinking that humanity has outgrown its need for many of the basic instincts we have hardwired into us , instincts that in our present society only serve to prevent it from advancing to what we have decided it should be. the human capability to commit acts that knowingly harm another is something that we have to remove if we want a society that wont just collapse on itself like every other civilization to exist. if we ever want to get out of the perpetual cycle of society we have put ourselves in then we need to change the basic building blocks of humanity. think about how every civilization to ever exist has gone through the same cycle that ultimately ends in its destruction. and how the destruction is on a greater scale when each civilization passes. natural evolution cannot adapt at the speed our intelligence and technology has grown, to the point when we cant even function as a whole, even in a democratic society like the one we live in.

and as to Your example remy , we are at a point in history where 'the lion does not have to take down the zebra to survive' violence for survival is no longer necessary (or would not be necessary if there was no longer murders) . and in this society unimpassioned violence is referred to as psychopathic.

and encase anyone misunderstands me this is not a serious conclusion i have deluded myself into believing is inevitable, it is merely an abstract thought i had while i was thinking about the doomed future of private firearms ownership.

im sorry for even mentioning japan it was a bad example , it was, as is the entire aforementioned idea , just another thing i had on my mind.

[tsitenha]

Just happened to have lived and trained in Japan, with some very "special" people that all.

[Sourdough]

On New Years Day the Anchorage Rag (News Paper) lists all the murders in the city, with a few paragraphs about each. It is interesting how many are not executed with firearms. With no firearms in the house, a guy knifed his wife 67 times with four different knives. As I recall 45% did not use firearms. Now if you add in cars and trucks, maybe 70% did not use firearms.

[A190]

This sounds like one of those fake chain emails to me. I don't think it's even possible to put serial numbers on bullets. To me, that sounds ridiculous. (a) the number would be too long, and (b) the number would be destroyed when the bullet hit the target. I call fake.


Nope, several states right now do have legislation pending in some form or fashion to require micro stamping of either the bullet, the case or both and requirements for aback ground check just to purchase ANY type of ammo........

There is also a proposal to increase the tax on ammunition by a substantial amount.............with the ultimate goal to dry up the ammo supply.
SOme states are also attempting t make it against the law to reload or to possess un registered ammo after 2011.........
The question that begs is will it get any traction any where.........:eek:

[LudwigVan]

On New Years Day the Anchorage Rag (News Paper) lists all the murders in the city, with a few paragraphs about each. It is interesting how many are not executed with firearms. With no firearms in the house, a guy knifed his wife 67 times with four different knives. As I recall 45% did not use firearms. Now if you add in cars and trucks, maybe 70% did not use firearms.

Speaking of that it got me thinking that when you hear big numbers for "firearm related deaths", Keep in mind how many of those are suicides and just accidents. People like to imply that they're all murder.

[kx250kev]

im thinking that humanity has outgrown its need for many of the basic instincts we have hardwired into us.

Lets not forget the most basic of all instincts/laws...."survival of the fittest".
You can't "brainwash" that away from everyone.
I CHOOSE to survive, so it would not be wise for anyone to try to "rid me" or my family of its defenses.

[trax]

Red Lake, I didn't call you a communist. In fact, what I was referring to when I mentioned the Berlin Wall had nothing to do with communism, which is in fact an economic position,not a political one. What I was referring to was the existence of a police state. The police exist to serve the people, not to monitor them and dictate how they should live their lives. If you're comfortable with a national police force doing that because you're willing to toe the line, good for you. I think government is a fine thing for people who want to be governed. You seem to be one of those people. What do you do when you have tolerated that system for however many years and that police state/government starts churning out rules that you don't agree with? How far can they take it? Ask the people who lived in East Germany. The Stasi took it to a level that is incomprehensible to most of us. I'm not even saying it's happened or is happening, I'm suggesting that we always be vigilant to the fact that in can happen. If you don't believe me, pre-date East Germany and go back to Nazi Germany. Hitler was elected my friend, and leader of the first government that I'm aware of to initiatie federal firearms registration.

It's all well and good to say "it doesn't affect me because I obey the law" when they're hauling some radical away, doesn't it? I'm pretty sure that's what the people of Jerusalem were saying when they made that guy drag his own cross through the city.

[Mike00006]

I seriously think that a ban on all weapons is a utopian kind of thing. No man that has ever needed a firearm or used one to put food on the table will let something like that happen. Look at Texas for example, how many people there have hunted, defended their home, or ever needed or used a gun in their life? Do you see them banning guns and ammo?

Once again, the famous quote comes to mind "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." If you ban guns people will resort to more gruesome ways to kill each other. Why not ban pencils, guitar strings, hammers, and scissors while your at it? Each one of those are just as capable to killing someone as a gun is. But why stop at guns, lets put bubble wrap around all telephone poles to keep from killing the drunk driver when he hits it. And lets ban vehicles too, because so many americans get killed by those every year too.

If guns get banned, chaos will erupt and the ban will be dropped... We need guns... period.

Ill bet one of the guys behind gun bans is PETA... no guns equals no hunting.... But wait... yeah, they have a terribly utopian agenda. Its truly sad. What would we do without hunting? Almost everyone would have a dinged up car from hitting all of the deer.


If this law gets passed, I hope I don't live to see it.

[SARKY]

Here are some facts that even the criminals know....1: you can alter your firing pin so it's imprint on the primer is different. 2: with a bore brush and an abrasive cleaner (like the ones used to smooth out the imperfections on barrel rifling) you can alter how the barrel imprints on the bullet. 3: a little abrasive cleaner on the bolt/slide face will alter how it imprints on the head of a fired case 4: abrasive cleaner used on the chamber will alter the striations imprinted on the case wall by the chamber when fired. It's just that the criminals are too lazy and/or too arrogant to do these things because they don't believe that they will be caught in the first place.

[SARKY]

You talk about "Survival of the Fittist" ....Here is a news flash, If the govt. prevents you from being able to defend yourself and this same govt. is NOT responsible for Your Personal safety, then tell me ....who IS responsible for your personal safety??? The fittest wind up being the criminals who pump iron while they are incarcerated. The useless Idots who believe the you should just duke it out with the criminal have never been in that situation! and what about the 96 lb. woman? is she going to duke it out with a 250 lb muscle head scum bag??? I think not!

[Beans]

Ill bet one of the guys behind gun bans is PETA... no guns equals no hunting.... But wait... yeah, they have a terribly utopian agenda. Its truly sad. What would we do without hunting? Almost everyone would have a dinged up car from hitting all of the deer.

No! I think they would all starve after eating ALL of their food supply. Don't shoot Bambi let him starve to death, more humane. NOT.

[RunsWithDeer]

Nope, several states right now do have legislation pending in some form or fashion to require micro stamping of either the bullet, the case or both and requirements for aback ground check just to purchase ANY type of ammo........

There is also a proposal to increase the tax on ammunition by a substantial amount.............with the ultimate goal to dry up the ammo supply.
SOme states are also attempting t make it against the law to reload or to possess un registered ammo after 2011.........
The question that begs is will it get any traction any where.........:eek:

With the Dems in control, I expect the agenda to further limit our ability to buy and use firearms to gain traction. Going after ammo is just one part of the liberal agenda.

[Leighman]

The question that begs is will it get any traction any where.........:eek:

I think it will get traction, but only in those states/cities that already harbor an irrational fear of an armed populace.

[RBB]

I am just not that paranoid. If somebody wants to know what I do all day they must live a pretty boring life. I live my life as I choose an that lies within the confines of the law. The Gman are the least of our concerns. We should all be worried about the utility companies, now there is something to fear.

As far as the price of ammo going up, how much ammo do you use (never mind don't answer that because that would reveal too much) but if ammo goes up 100% which it won't, you are going to be out another $100 per year? $200? $20?

Sorry. Not going along with this. My new deer rifle - the cartridges are $2.00 apiece. That is already too much to pay.

[crashdive123]

Some proposals being floated out there are a 500% tax hike in order to pay for the nightmare of tracking.

[SARKY]

check out this web site http://ammunitionaccountability.org/Technology.htm

http://ammunitionaccountability.org/Technology.htm

[crashdive123]

I'd be willing to wager a bet that that group was founded either by the people working on microstamping technology or those that would like to ban guns. Just a hunch.

[primeelite]

I don't see how they could do this and it be effective at all. All of the anti-gun nuts are already going crazy though because they asked a high ranking official in Obama's staff about more regulation on firearms and ammunition and the official said Obama/Biden would not be doing anything about the guns because it is not more regulations in gun shops that will take guns off the streets and keep them from being used in crime. They did say they were going to close the gun show loophole which I really don't disagree with because I know someone who had a felony who purchased a glock 21 at one without much ID. Crime is going to be going up with the economy getting worse and many states running out of money for welfare etc so I think this is the worst time to be trying to take guns out of the hands of citizens who use them responsibly. I have heard a lot of people saying though that they won't try to take away the guns they will just put such a high tax on the ammunition that it will be next to impossible to afford which does nothing to stop crime. I guess it is like one famous slogan says they wont take away your hunting rifle they will call it a sniper rifle and take it away.